Independence not viable for Kashmir: Devil's Advocate, Omar Abdullah

Karan Thapar / CNN-IBN



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How did the National Conference conduct itself during the recent Kashmir crisis and how does it see the future of this politically sensitive issue? Those were the twin issues Karan Thapar explored in an interview on Devil’s Advocate with President of the National Conference, Omar Abdullah.

Karan Thapar: Let's start with the recent agreement between the Kashmir state government and the Sangharsh Samiti about making land available to the shrine board. Your father has publicly endorsed and supported this agreement but so far no one knows what your personal opinion is.

Omar Abdullah: I don't need to have a personal opinion. If my personal opinion were different from my father's or my party's, you would have heard it.

Karan Thapar: Except that you're the president of the party and everyone looks to you to express your opinion.

Omar Abdullah: Not at all. I was in the meeting when the Prime Minister discussed the framework of this agreement. I was there when my father was briefing the media. I was standing there with him. If I didn't think what was happening right, I would have told him. The bottom line for me is that if you don’t agree with this agreement, you might as well turn around and say that you're against the yatra because there's nothing in this that should give anybody a cause for concern.

Karan Thapar: So you totally support this agreement?>

Omar Abdullah: Absolutely. There’s nothing in it.

Karan Thapar: And there is no difference between your and your father's position as many people in the Valley suspect?

Omar Abdullah: No, there isn't. I don’t believe there's any reason for it. In a sense, all you've done is put down on paper what has been happening for more than a hundred years, which is that this land is being used for the yatra for two months or one month a year and that is about it. You haven’t transferred the land, you haven’t sold the land and you haven’t diverted the land.

Karan Thapar: What is the difference between this agreement — which you, your father, and your party have endorsed — and the May 26 order of the Azad Government, which you objected to? Both are exactly identical in every way.

Omar Abdullah: The objection was to the perception of it, the objection was to the way in which the government sold that agreement to the people, the objection was to the way in which the government came out in two voices on that, and the confusion they created — that allowed no scope for us to support that agreement.

Karan Thapar: You said the objection was to the perception, the way it was sold and to the fact that the government spoke in multiple voices. Your objection wasn’t to the substance?

Omar Abdullah: If the substance was right, you wouldn’t have had a problem with the perception of it. The fact of the matter is that there was no clarity on the duration of the transfer of that land, no clarity on whether it was for temporary structures or permanent structures. The order talked about constructing railways, tunnels, road links and other facilities.

Karan Thapar: I’ve read that order. It explicitly said that this was for non-permanent structures and camping purposes only.

Omar Abdullah: If you go further down the order, you'll find that it says that in the event you construct roads, tunnels or railways, then the following earthworks and banking works has to be done.

Karan Thapar: But roads, runnels and railways will be for the benefit of the state. It wouldn’t be exclusive for either the shrine board or the Hindus going on the yatra.

Omar Abdullah: Why would you need a tunnel or a road in that area if you haven't needed on all this while? Why would you need it now?

Karan Thapar: Because presumably it helps communication?

Omar Abdullah: No. There is no communication in that area.

Omar Abdullah: Come back to what you said. You’re objection arose not so much from the substance so much as from the perception of it. Does the principal party involved in creating a misperception, if not a false perception, was your provincial president Mehboob Baig. He was the first person to claim the handing over of 40 hectares to the shrine board would change the demography of the state. How can the 'perception', trouble you? You created the perception?

Omar Abdullah: No, absolutely not. Mehboob Baig is not a prophet passing on a word handed down by god. He's an individual. If his words or perception of it was wrong, why was the government silent?

Karan Thapar: More importantly, why were you silent?

Omar Abdullah: No. We asked for questions and I am on record in a press conference having said that we are not worried about the change in demography because article 370 will not allow it.

Karan Thapar: But you didn't tell Mehboob Baig to shut up. You didn't contradict or correct him.

Omar Abdullah: I contradicted him. We corrected his perception in a press conference. After that Mehboob Baig didn't repeat that line. It's not our fault. It’s the PDP and the government of the day that started following this line.

Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you what your father at the Tehelka conference in London on June 27 said about those people who were creating and raising, what he considered to be a "forced bogey". He said, "Just to get political mileage we are ready to destroy everything that created us." He spoke passionately and angrily against the very people who were creating this bogey. They were members of his party, in fact, his own provincial president.

Omar Abdullah: The provincial president was dealt with. You heard this allegation from him once. That’s it.

Karan Thapar: What about the storm it created? The whole Valley turned around.

Omar Abdullah: I think this is being slightly unfair. The storm was created not because of Mehboob Baig. If Mehboob Baig were important enough to create this storm, he would be able to put this storm out. A government that had no business passing this order without doing the necessary homework and then not standing by the order created this storm.

Karan Thapar: It is very interesting that you excuse yourself for complicity. You have to make your provincial party president seem like a very unimportant man but leave that aside, he lit the fire. He started the flame.

Omar Abdullah: No. I don't believe so.

Karan Thapar: Don't believe so or don't want to believe so?

Omar Abdullah: No I don't believe so.

Karan Thapar: You know what people say? People say that National Conference tries to have it both ways. They wanted to benefit from the movement. They allowed Mehboob to get away with it, even though they knew what he was doing was not just errant nonsense but dangerous nonsense. Today, because they're a little bit embarrassed by it, they’ve distanced themselves from it.

Omar Abdullah: We distanced ourselves from it right then.

Karan Thapar: Not very loudly.

Omar Abdullah: No, loudly enough.

Karan Thapar: What do you mean loudly enough? Loudly enough would mean loud in Delhi but not to be heard in Srinagar?

Omar Abdullah: You can't speak and be heard in Delhi unless you're heard in Srinagar. You're more likely to be first heard in Srinagar than in Delhi.

Karan Thapar: No one in Srinagar remembers Omar Abdullah criticising Mehboob Baig. No on in Srinagar recalls that the National Conference was against the claim that demography would be changed by handing over 40 hectares.

Omar Abdullah: I think somebody needs to pull out the transcript of the press conference I had somewhere towards the end of June, around the same time my father was addressing the Tehelka press conference. You'll find on record, my having said that the change of demography is not the issue. It's the environmental concerns and the concerns with regard to the duration of the transfer.

Karan Thapar: People say that under Omar Abdullah as the national president of the National Conference, he pushed the party to an extreme position, even more extreme than his father would have wanted.

Omar Abdullah: No, I don’t think I pushed it to an extreme issue. If I had to push it to an extreme point, we would not have agreed to what has happened now. If I had to play extremist politics, I would have done what the PDP is doing.