By Patrice Lagacé - La Presse – Montréal : 18 August 2010
Before talking about the disaster in Pakistan, I would like to tell you about this marvelous “killing machine” called F-16. You know what a F-16 is, don’t you? Well, it’s one of the most popular fighter planes in the world. They cost approximately $40 million each. And of course, during its lifetime, it will have cost one and half the purchase price for maintenance, repairs (and windshield washer – you wouldn’t believe the insane price of each can of windshield washer that these toys use).
So, coming back to the disaster in Pakistan. Terrible! If we weren’t talking about a muslim country, we could refer to the flooding as being of biblical proportions: 20,000,000 disaster victims. Just appalling. Over the last two or three days we’ve been hearing voices accusing the West (Canada and United States) of a lack of generosity towards a very seriously afflicted Pakistan. People are being told off in Canada, France and Great-Britain. In yesterday’s La Presse, my colleague Marie-Claude Malboeuf mentioned that a humanitarian coalition had barely collected $200,000.00 for Pakistan whereas, during the same period of time, a phenomenal sum of $3,600,000.00 was collected for Haitians after the earthquake that devastated their country. The NGO (non-governmental organizations) are “stamping their feet”. They are getting impatient. They are clamoring of catastrophe and cholera. The most tragic thing is that they are probably right.
Internationally, the UNO has collected only 40% of the 460 million dollars needed for urgent aid. Nick Clegg, deputy prime minister of England has berated the international community for its stinginess: “The reaction of the international community is deplorable.”
But I’m extrapolating. I was talking about the F-16. Quite recently, a country acquired a brand new fleet of twenty or so of these fantastic killers in the air.
Which country was this now? Yep, PAKISTAN.
Before going any further, I’m warning you: the writer of this article is a naïve journalist. A naïve journalist who admits it candidly and who wants to know: If Pakistan had $1,4 billion to acquire fighter planes from Lockheed very recently, why doesn’t Pakistan have $460 million to help its own “drenched” citizens?
I apologize to the Red Cross, to CARE, to Oxfam and other non-governmental organizations, but I, for one, will not give one red penny towards the humanitarian relief in Pakistan. I will NOT give a penny to help Pakistan because Pakistan never had any problem buying military equipment or getting financial help to buy some.
On July 19th, the New York Times published a condemning article on the tax system of Pakistan. A banana republic tax system, where the rich concocted a way to avoid paying taxes. I’m not talking about not paying a little income tax… I’m talking about total tax evasion. I’m talking about a country where 10 million people should be paying taxes, but only 2.5 million do. And all of this is legal. The rich managed to come up with a plan which dispenses them from paying taxes. The New York Times mentioned that average – average! - worth (?) of Pakistani parliamentarians is $900,000. Nawaz Sharif, the Opposition leader, and a millionaire hasn’t, for his part, paid any income taxes in 2005, 2006 and 2007. “This system favours elitists, (a system by elitists for elitists) says Riyaz Hussein Naqvi, Pakistani a retired public servant who worked as a tax collector for 38 years. It is a distorted system in which the poor pays for the rich.”
What The Times did not mention but which you probably already know – I know that you read the international news in dailies with great interest – is that Pakistan already has nuclear arms. In fact, it owns countless nuclear missiles.
So, if I recap all this…Pakistan is an oligarchy (a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes) which exempts the rich from paying income tax. Pakistan has money to buy F-16’s. Pakistan has money to keep an atomic arsenal capable of destroying half the planet! I am not that naïve after all… Pakistan has the means to help its own people.
Note from Pierre (the fellow who send this article around): If I remember well, on September 11th 2001, when the Twin Towers in New York were destroyed by terrorists, yes I do remember very well having seen live television coverage showing adults and children from Iran, Pakistan and other Muslim countries, dancing in the streets and having a whale of a time because the United States had been touched right in the heart. They were elated because thousands of Americans were killed.
Well now that they’re in deep sh.., they ask for our help!!! And what will they do to us in five years, in ten years?
NO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/chroniqueurs/patrick-lagace/201008/17/01-4307405-je-suis-un-sans-coeur-je-sais.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B40_chroniqueurs_373561_accueil_POS1
(Published on the 18th August 2010 : "Je suis un sans-coeur, je sais" - "I am heartless, I know").
--
Showing posts with label pakistan. Show all posts
Showing posts with label pakistan. Show all posts
Thursday, September 30, 2010
Tuesday, June 22, 2010
India & its Real Enemies !!!
The mastermind of 13/12 attack on Parliament
The file goes back and forth
By Joginder Singh , IPS (Retd)
Our nation’s message should be, that anyone who attacks our country and its institutions cannot get away, without retribution. Had the terrorist strike succeeded, many of our elected representatives, would have died a gruesome death.
WHEN I was in service, I wanted some orders, on an important file, or which, at least, appeared important to me. I had a very good pleasant and hospitable boss, who believed more in gossiping, tossing papers, up and down, and socialising rather than working. After sending a number of reminders, I sought time to meet him.
Whenever I tried to divert the conversation to the subject, on which I wanted his decision, he would side track. Instead of remaining silent, I told him that I wanted his orders. He just smiled and said that I was young and enthusiastic. He classified all files into two categories, the one for passing the time by making the aimless queries and the other for doing the work. He said that the particular file I was referring to was Mann Lagani Wali File Hay.
I was under the impression that only some bureaucrats play games of tossing the files. I have been proved wrong, on this count, that even the best of politicians play this game. I admit, of course, with more adroitness, under the impression that public memory is short and with the passage of time, instead of taking a decision, putting everything under the carpet, would be the best course.
The Government of India, has exactly been doing the same, on the mercy petition filed by one of convict name Afzal Guru, in the well known case of attack on the blackest day in Indian History, that is December 13, 2001. It had sent the representation of the convict to Delhi Government for its views and opinions four years back and has followed it by 16 reminders.
Incidentally on August 4, 2005, the Supreme Court had confirmed the death sentence and afterwards October 20, 2006 was fixed for his hanging. Even Delhi Government has washed its hands off, by saying that the implications of the law and order situation, would have to be studies, in case Afzal was hanged. Thus the game of foot balling the problem continues.
First of all law and order in Delhi is a Central subject and is directly under the control of the Central Government. Central Government is in the best position to know as to what is happening in the country and in Delhi, as all intelligence agencies are under its control. Afzal Guru has been held guilty, in helping, in carrying out the attack, which left several members of our security forces dead.
He has committed a heinous crime on the Indian Nation. For that, his execution does not, have only a symbolic value, but it is essential to send a message, that nobody can commit terrorism and then expect mercy. To say, that his hanging, will lead to a riotous situation in Delhi, or elsewhere, ,is too pathetic and a shabby excuse.
Our nation’s message should be, that anyone who attacks our country and its institutions cannot get away, without retribution. Had the terrorist strike succeeded, many of our elected representatives, would have died a gruesome death. In addition, the message would have gone throughout the world that India was unequipped, ill-prepared and incapable of defending its own Parliament.
Those familiar with the British Parliament’s history may recall that a person by the name of Guy Fawkes had tried to blow up the House of Lords. He was caught and executed. Till this day, November 5, is observed in England as the day to commemorate the foiled attempt.
The present case has gone through the entire legal process and Afzal found to be guilty of masterminding the Parliament attack by the Apex Court, which has upheld the death sentence.
At the rate the Government of India, is going about whether to hang Afzal or not, the Government may like to hold a referendum to get the opinion of every India. The kind of crime committed on our Parliament is one, for which no court in the world would award any lesser sentence. Every conceivable excuse has been used to avoid carrying out the sentence. The main question arises, should sentencing of the accused to any punishment should depend, on what some people feel.
What is the point of dilly dallying, in the guise of their mercy petition being under consideration and keep 53 prisoners on tenterhook , who are facing death sentence.
Let not the name of the President used, that mercy petition is pending with Rashtrapati Bhavan. Instead say that the Government is sitting over it. The consequences of non punishment can be serious, as it is the Maoists and terrorists are having a free run of the country. The Government, must remember, that it is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
(The writer can be contacted at jogindersinghfdips@hotmail.com)
The file goes back and forth
By Joginder Singh , IPS (Retd)
Our nation’s message should be, that anyone who attacks our country and its institutions cannot get away, without retribution. Had the terrorist strike succeeded, many of our elected representatives, would have died a gruesome death.
WHEN I was in service, I wanted some orders, on an important file, or which, at least, appeared important to me. I had a very good pleasant and hospitable boss, who believed more in gossiping, tossing papers, up and down, and socialising rather than working. After sending a number of reminders, I sought time to meet him.
Whenever I tried to divert the conversation to the subject, on which I wanted his decision, he would side track. Instead of remaining silent, I told him that I wanted his orders. He just smiled and said that I was young and enthusiastic. He classified all files into two categories, the one for passing the time by making the aimless queries and the other for doing the work. He said that the particular file I was referring to was Mann Lagani Wali File Hay.
I was under the impression that only some bureaucrats play games of tossing the files. I have been proved wrong, on this count, that even the best of politicians play this game. I admit, of course, with more adroitness, under the impression that public memory is short and with the passage of time, instead of taking a decision, putting everything under the carpet, would be the best course.
The Government of India, has exactly been doing the same, on the mercy petition filed by one of convict name Afzal Guru, in the well known case of attack on the blackest day in Indian History, that is December 13, 2001. It had sent the representation of the convict to Delhi Government for its views and opinions four years back and has followed it by 16 reminders.
Incidentally on August 4, 2005, the Supreme Court had confirmed the death sentence and afterwards October 20, 2006 was fixed for his hanging. Even Delhi Government has washed its hands off, by saying that the implications of the law and order situation, would have to be studies, in case Afzal was hanged. Thus the game of foot balling the problem continues.
First of all law and order in Delhi is a Central subject and is directly under the control of the Central Government. Central Government is in the best position to know as to what is happening in the country and in Delhi, as all intelligence agencies are under its control. Afzal Guru has been held guilty, in helping, in carrying out the attack, which left several members of our security forces dead.
He has committed a heinous crime on the Indian Nation. For that, his execution does not, have only a symbolic value, but it is essential to send a message, that nobody can commit terrorism and then expect mercy. To say, that his hanging, will lead to a riotous situation in Delhi, or elsewhere, ,is too pathetic and a shabby excuse.
Our nation’s message should be, that anyone who attacks our country and its institutions cannot get away, without retribution. Had the terrorist strike succeeded, many of our elected representatives, would have died a gruesome death. In addition, the message would have gone throughout the world that India was unequipped, ill-prepared and incapable of defending its own Parliament.
Those familiar with the British Parliament’s history may recall that a person by the name of Guy Fawkes had tried to blow up the House of Lords. He was caught and executed. Till this day, November 5, is observed in England as the day to commemorate the foiled attempt.
The present case has gone through the entire legal process and Afzal found to be guilty of masterminding the Parliament attack by the Apex Court, which has upheld the death sentence.
At the rate the Government of India, is going about whether to hang Afzal or not, the Government may like to hold a referendum to get the opinion of every India. The kind of crime committed on our Parliament is one, for which no court in the world would award any lesser sentence. Every conceivable excuse has been used to avoid carrying out the sentence. The main question arises, should sentencing of the accused to any punishment should depend, on what some people feel.
What is the point of dilly dallying, in the guise of their mercy petition being under consideration and keep 53 prisoners on tenterhook , who are facing death sentence.
Let not the name of the President used, that mercy petition is pending with Rashtrapati Bhavan. Instead say that the Government is sitting over it. The consequences of non punishment can be serious, as it is the Maoists and terrorists are having a free run of the country. The Government, must remember, that it is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
(The writer can be contacted at jogindersinghfdips@hotmail.com)
Monday, November 16, 2009
‘India's timid response to Kargil resulted in terror strikes’
by Samirajan on 16 Nov 2009, New Delhi
New Delhi India's ‘timid’ response to the Pakistani military ingress in Kargil in 1999 has been blamed by a retired Army General for the series of terrorist strikes beginning with the attack on Parliament in 2001.
He has also come down heavily on the country's then political, executive and military leadership -- Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Defence Minister George Fernandes, Army chief General V P Malik and IAF chief Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis -- for not standing up to the challenge.
"Our (NDA's political and military leadership's) timid response at Kargil, laid the foundation for future terrorist attacks on India, starting with the attack on the Indian Parliament," former Deputy Chief of Army Staff Lieutenant
General Harwant Singh says in an article in the coming edition of the Indian Defence Review. Apart from the wasteful troop mobilisation at a cost of Rs 1,000 crore after the terror strike on Parliament House, India was paying, literally and figuratively, large sums on strengthening NSG, Coast Guard and police after the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, all because of the dithering during Kargil operations, he says.
Public Opinion
Our Generals of the Army are confusing the Public. Some Generals, especially the retired ones say that our Army is illequipped to fight China or Pakistan. Some Generals in service say that we would give a fitting reply to the aggressors. What is the real position?
Reply | Forward
The simple truth by Hero Vaz on 16 Nov 2009
The General has put it well. Gutlessness pervades through all Indian government actions and reactions. Has India ever been assertive in anything? It is no wonder China and Pakistan are wiping their shoes on India and the US notices India in passing. In no world forum does India take a bold stand and make itself felt. The putrid leadership is to blame for this. As a result, 1.2 billion people in the country have a disgustingly low rating in the world.
Reply | Forward
truth lies somewhere else by amit on 16 Nov 2009
truth is inthefact thwt we are hypocrates. If we believe in secularism, why we agreed to have a country on base of religion, and allow lakhs of indian suffer in Pakistan on name of religion?fact is we had surrendered inm 1947 against religious zealots. They are curse on humanity nad they are making every pakistani( indian)Suffer. since they have got a country on basis of hatred, they have only one strength with them i.e. hatred. They have no national idemntity, they have no sense of belonging, because if they develop it then their fanatic struggle of creating pakistan will become meaningless. so for their survival, they are to keep the flame of hatred, which created the nation of pakistan, alive till the time they can afford. we are to realise this truth at home as well as across the border, or pretend to be peaceloving and compromising and get thousands wounds to bleed till eternity
Reply | Forward
It's a well disguised attempt by UPA to shift blames to their predecessor... by Anand Guru on 16 Nov 2009
I bet this is a well disguised attempt of UPA to shift the blames of their failures to their predecessors. Everybody knows that UPA's performance in their previous stint was horrible as far as tackling the issue of terrorism was concerned. India faced more terrorist attacks in last 5-6 years not because of Kargil or Tashkent but simply because UPA virtually enticed them to come and attack by removing the only existing deterrence we had namely POTA - in the name of vote-bank politics. And not before the attack on Mumbai on 26/11 shook the nation (forget about countless others which preceded 26/11) they realized their mistake and hurriedly got together to enact a renamed version of POTA again. Now coming to Kargil - this war deserves a special mention in modern history. No nation has fought a war in 20th or 21st century with so much restraint and has still achieved the desired results. Somebody has rightly pointed out that even a full-blown war wouldn't have fetched us this result!
Reply | Forward
India unaware of Pak as the most dangerous enemy by Samir on 16 Nov 2009
The problem is that Indians are not aware of how much enemy of thiers is this terrorist Pakistan till 26 Nov 2008. Before that from Indias side only appeasement and wooing went on to this terrorist Pakistan. It was a Pak strategy to hold so called peace talk between India and Pak while 26/11 was being performed. Some so called Pseudo-intellectuals in India at first mentioned that,while Indo-Pak "peace talk" was going on this 26/11 happened, hinting Pak is good but West is bad. This is the Indian Public Opinion of Cunning and terrorist Pakistan by Indians. In fact Indians are so much confined top their internal affairs that they are not aware of who their most dangerous external enemy is.
Reply | Forward
It's a well desguised plan to shift the blame - that's where UPA's expertise lies... by Anand on 16 Nov 2009
I bet this is a well disguised attempt of UPA to shift the blames of their failures to their predecessors. Everybody knows that UPA's performance in their previous stint was horrible as far as tackling the issue of terrorism was concerned. India faced more terrorist attacks in last 5-6 years not because of Kargil or Tashkent but simply because UPA virtually enticed them to come and attack by removing the only existing deterrence we had namely POTA - in the name of vote-bank politics. And not before the attack on Mumbai on 26/11 shook the nation (forget about countless others which preceded 26/11) they realized their mistake and hurriedly got together to enact a renamed version of POTA again. Now coming to Kargil - this war deserves a special mention in modern history. No nation has fought a war in 20th or 21st century with so much restraint and has still achieved the desired results. Somebody has rightly pointed out that even a full-blown war wouldn't have fetched us this result!
Reply | Forward
Indian leadership's sickening inertia problem by rishi parekh on 16 Nov 2009
The Indian army general's point that a weak response to Kargil by India led to a series of terrorist attacks on the country is a valid one. Let us remind ourselves that for almost two years leading up to 26/11 attacks, India had been hit by terrorist attacks practically every two months resulting in many, many deaths. Still, Manmohan Singh did not move against the home minister Patil, who would show up in hospitals in "sympathy" for the bereaved in impeccable suits. I started out as a strong Manmohan Singh supporter, but now have strong reservations about him as an effective PM. His coalition received a good mandate in the recent general election, which his government could have used to move forward with economic reform legislation with urgency. But nothing has happened. There is talk of "we will do this and that reform" but things do not move forward with speed. The political system is sick and suffers from inertia. Meanwhile, Pakis and others exploit India's weaknesses.
Reply | Forward
Kargill;response by Brigadier Ashok Joshi(Retd) on 16 Nov 2009
It is unfortunate that to sell a book the author wishes to blame his comrades. The then COAS,Army Cdr,Corps Cdr and others did whatever was possible to give reply to the intrusion which had taken place.You could not have taken steps to have the matter escalated to war like situation. But the question still remains as why nobody was sacked for the intrusion which remained undetected? I wish the author has highlighted this,as i have no desire to read this book as he has been writing on every subject with which he had no association.
Reply | Forward
My common sense analysis by adaamin on 16 Nov 2009
kargil or no Kargil Pakistan will always have some excuse or the other to bleed India. The real analysis that need to be done is does India have any excuse to attack Pakistan and shut them off once and for all?
Reply | Forward
Anti NDA Propaganda by Ananth Seth on 16 Nov 2009
Mr. Singh, I would be interested in your take on a.the refusal/inability of the then Prime Ministers of India to resolve the Kashmir issue during 1965 and 1975. b. Nehru's role in literally "creating" the China problem. c. The need for continuing article 370. Do not mind, the timing of and the delay in your reaction, make your intentions suspect. Do have political ambitions but in the process, plz do not malign or attempt to disgrace the other political side. Kindly do not politicize the defence aspects. The politicians are already doing a "good" (pun intended) job on that front!
Reply | Forward
Timid Response by Sam on 16 Nov 2009
Easy to talk of Bold responses when one is not in the hot seat, In the light the of what we have seen regarding Chinese incursions and Paki attacks in 2004-09 how would the UPA be different.
Reply | Forward
Why is he out of the closet now ? by Juby Mathews on 16 Nov 2009
What is this General commenting ? No Indian would buy his argument that all the terrorist attacks that happened in India was because of the so-called "timid approach" to the Kargil attacks. In fact General Musharaff was forced to make a shameful surrender to our brave jawans. Where is the correlation between Kargil and the subsequent terror attacks ? In fact, the terror attacks would have been more otherwise.
Reply | Forward
Ignorant Comments by Veer Sain on 16 Nov 2009
The General's comments are unrealistic and uninformed. He should know that the government has to take many factors into consideration, including the international community. It is foolish to think by any sane mind that with US interests in Pakistan and US forces sitting in there, America would have allowed India to beat up Pakistan.
Reply | Forward
Gen's comment by kamusingh on 16 Nov 2009
The mobilazation of troops after the attack on Parliament. and the kargil encounter was push back of the terrorists, and Pak army. We just managed to push them back from our door step. All for political macho image creating. It was punctured by the Kandhar surrender. NDA govt never recovered that image again. Propoganda tried to create a paper victory of Kargil. Churchill said, of the escape of the British army from France, after the fall of France, "Do not clothe this escape with attributes of Victory"
Reply | Forward
lets show pakis by indian on 16 Nov 2009
pakistan thinks that its nuke will act as a deterant and they will get away with anything. Indian army should have crossed the loc and punished the pakis once for and all.
Reply | Forward
To Roy. by Krishna on 16 Nov 2009
I agree completely. The right-wingers in this country are a bunch of wimps who just love blaming everyone especially the Congress for their concerns. If they are so brave and committed to the national cause, why dont they go stand on the border and hold a gun instead of sitting here and filling message boards with their mindless and senseless criticisms.
Reply | Forward
TIMID COUNTRY by Sachin on 16 Nov 2009
A timid country my India. Can't believe we just wasted a whole opportunity to bring Kashmir back from Pakistanis.
Reply | Forward
Timid response for 60 years: Part-2 by Raj on 16 Nov 2009
The 1000 character limit is irritating.The Pakis have been prejudiced against India since beginning. How this happened is another chapter. But what is true is that they hate us for no valid reason. They think that it is their birthright to damage India. To satisfy this animal instinct, they can go to any in-human extent. Hate-India is theri reason of existence. If they lose this reason/ motivation they will not know what to do. India has failed to increase their cost for adopting such a line. Hence our people are suffereing. We want their players to play in IPL. Sharad Pawar say, India will welcome Pakistani players in Mumbai if they qualify for final of World Cup!!!. Have we lost senses. Such language give a message of weakness. Our prime Minister is keen to start talks. For what purpose?
Reply | Forward
Absolutely foolish analysis---- by romesh.sharma on 16 Nov 2009
This retired General is apparently interested to achieve some kind award from the Congress/ruling UPA and his criticism/ blames to them serving Generals and the Govt is obscurely ignominious to the Dence Forces and the then Govt.His passion fo a soldier is too exaggerated and unjustified.He has to know the moral sensibility produced by profound difference of circumstances,failing that he has falsified the judgement.What was then the reaction to back-stabbing attack on India by most unscrupulous enemy couldn't be underestimated.India pushed the enemy and retained its positions and not to forget the enemy suffered much more,which has been told and confirmed by both Mr Nawaz Sharif and Musharraf.This could result to worse for it wasn't a declared war and no one had slightest idea.What was done was the great job of our forces and diplomatically well dealt by then NDA/BJP.Through all out War India couldn't have achieved more.Increasing terrorism is to blamed to the dirty Cong polcies like
Reply | Forward
India is yet to get a Leader who can RUN the country by Umesh on 16 Nov 2009
It is unfortunate that we during the 60 years had only one or two political leaders who sood up to the real challanges the country facing. I\The cargil, the parliament attack, we should have given a tit for tat response. Now the Pakis knw well that even they send few tanks and jet fighters to our country, our parliamentarians will discuss it out in another six months and the outcome would be that, we are peace lovers, we should not act like the pakis... shame on the leadership...... I sometimes compelled to feel guilty of being an indian....
Reply | Forward
Timid response for 60 years: Part-1 by Raj on 16 Nov 2009
That's absolutely true. What kind of Rajputs, Sikhs, Marathas and other warrior clans are we, that we have given no befitting response to Pakis over the past 60 years. Musharraf, had once remarked that "Indians are incapable of reacting". He was right. I don't know, whether it is our strength or our bane. The Paki policy is clear and it is like this. They will never let go of the terror card inflict damage to India, come what way. There thinking is that they should never compromise on their strengths. As per them the Terror-factories represent a unique competence which hardly anyone in the world can replicate. Also they will continue to keep the pressure of terrorist strike on with the terror acts suitable spaced in time and space. They will never let the pressure reduce. The Kashmir issue is a ruse to continue this behaviour. It is foolish for Indians to even think of talking to Pakis. They don't understand this language.
Reply | Forward
Wimps by joel on 16 Nov 2009
Generals love war because they can claim to be heros for ordering jawans to become martyrs. Its easy to say start a full scale war but is it practical? Roy ur a wimp I can confirm. And the man they released for hostages who is responsible for the attacks!!! Would Roy give his family up as hostage in exchange for the passengers? Indian donkeys who beat their chest calling themselves nationalist but would not go to the front line themselves. Israel is a miserable country that dont exchange for hostages (they will for galit) but can India do it? What would those who lost loved one feel? And if Saeed was not released do you think the organisation would be dead??? somebody would come up and attack India. Roy u should offer yourself in exchange for any hostage in future. you probably will run like a mouse at the sound of gunfire.
Reply | Forward
HARD TRUTH by M V Chilukuri on 16 Nov 2009
Well, it's well known truth that Indian Govt approach to any terror attacks including Kargil has been TIMID. It's no wonder, there huge decline in young Indians joining Defence forces and moreover there is no pride factor in joining Armed Forces after Kargil War.
Reply | Forward
Truth is beautiful but hard to know--- by romesh.sharma on 16 Nov 2009
Mr Chilukuri,Kargil wasn't mere terror-attack but a well planned and silent and surprise invasion on our country.The response of India wasN#t timid but of hesitation and elayed because of terrain and absolutely unexpected on-slaught.To tackle that kind of situation it does need time,especially under that kind of circumstances.Not to write much one must first research and read all about Kargil War before calling it Timid.There is enough material available in internet.This action was of much greater success and honour than 71.Youth not willing to join DefenceForces has nothing to do with Kargil or other Wars/border conflicts but its nepotism and corruption in recruitment system which is demoralizing.There are plenty young men and women who have the craving to join and serve the Nation but its very rare these true people really get some chance to be in uniform.The other factor is possibly vast difference of pay-scale between Officer and ordinary soldier;and ofcourse poor equipments.A fine and supportive uniform and equipment gives high spirits anf boosts the morale of every soldier.I was soldier and would like to be again one if reborn in India or if asked even now for I feel born to serve my nation.
Reply | Forward
Factual...what more by Roy on 16 Nov 2009
The real truth will wound the die hard extreme right wingers in these columns...as seen by fellow countrymen like me they are mere paper tigers or wimps in every sense of the word. Dithered..they shied away from the realities....cowered in the face of attack & gave in to terror tactics by releasing the very man now the bane of all the attacks in India...they blame the Congress & the minorities for all their woes...call themselves nationalists...pitable lot the whole bunch. Come on wimps ..lets hear your views
Reply | Forward
New Delhi India's ‘timid’ response to the Pakistani military ingress in Kargil in 1999 has been blamed by a retired Army General for the series of terrorist strikes beginning with the attack on Parliament in 2001.
He has also come down heavily on the country's then political, executive and military leadership -- Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Defence Minister George Fernandes, Army chief General V P Malik and IAF chief Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis -- for not standing up to the challenge.
"Our (NDA's political and military leadership's) timid response at Kargil, laid the foundation for future terrorist attacks on India, starting with the attack on the Indian Parliament," former Deputy Chief of Army Staff Lieutenant
General Harwant Singh says in an article in the coming edition of the Indian Defence Review. Apart from the wasteful troop mobilisation at a cost of Rs 1,000 crore after the terror strike on Parliament House, India was paying, literally and figuratively, large sums on strengthening NSG, Coast Guard and police after the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, all because of the dithering during Kargil operations, he says.
Public Opinion
Our Generals of the Army are confusing the Public. Some Generals, especially the retired ones say that our Army is illequipped to fight China or Pakistan. Some Generals in service say that we would give a fitting reply to the aggressors. What is the real position?
Reply | Forward
The simple truth by Hero Vaz on 16 Nov 2009
The General has put it well. Gutlessness pervades through all Indian government actions and reactions. Has India ever been assertive in anything? It is no wonder China and Pakistan are wiping their shoes on India and the US notices India in passing. In no world forum does India take a bold stand and make itself felt. The putrid leadership is to blame for this. As a result, 1.2 billion people in the country have a disgustingly low rating in the world.
Reply | Forward
truth lies somewhere else by amit on 16 Nov 2009
truth is inthefact thwt we are hypocrates. If we believe in secularism, why we agreed to have a country on base of religion, and allow lakhs of indian suffer in Pakistan on name of religion?fact is we had surrendered inm 1947 against religious zealots. They are curse on humanity nad they are making every pakistani( indian)Suffer. since they have got a country on basis of hatred, they have only one strength with them i.e. hatred. They have no national idemntity, they have no sense of belonging, because if they develop it then their fanatic struggle of creating pakistan will become meaningless. so for their survival, they are to keep the flame of hatred, which created the nation of pakistan, alive till the time they can afford. we are to realise this truth at home as well as across the border, or pretend to be peaceloving and compromising and get thousands wounds to bleed till eternity
Reply | Forward
It's a well disguised attempt by UPA to shift blames to their predecessor... by Anand Guru on 16 Nov 2009
I bet this is a well disguised attempt of UPA to shift the blames of their failures to their predecessors. Everybody knows that UPA's performance in their previous stint was horrible as far as tackling the issue of terrorism was concerned. India faced more terrorist attacks in last 5-6 years not because of Kargil or Tashkent but simply because UPA virtually enticed them to come and attack by removing the only existing deterrence we had namely POTA - in the name of vote-bank politics. And not before the attack on Mumbai on 26/11 shook the nation (forget about countless others which preceded 26/11) they realized their mistake and hurriedly got together to enact a renamed version of POTA again. Now coming to Kargil - this war deserves a special mention in modern history. No nation has fought a war in 20th or 21st century with so much restraint and has still achieved the desired results. Somebody has rightly pointed out that even a full-blown war wouldn't have fetched us this result!
Reply | Forward
India unaware of Pak as the most dangerous enemy by Samir on 16 Nov 2009
The problem is that Indians are not aware of how much enemy of thiers is this terrorist Pakistan till 26 Nov 2008. Before that from Indias side only appeasement and wooing went on to this terrorist Pakistan. It was a Pak strategy to hold so called peace talk between India and Pak while 26/11 was being performed. Some so called Pseudo-intellectuals in India at first mentioned that,while Indo-Pak "peace talk" was going on this 26/11 happened, hinting Pak is good but West is bad. This is the Indian Public Opinion of Cunning and terrorist Pakistan by Indians. In fact Indians are so much confined top their internal affairs that they are not aware of who their most dangerous external enemy is.
Reply | Forward
It's a well desguised plan to shift the blame - that's where UPA's expertise lies... by Anand on 16 Nov 2009
I bet this is a well disguised attempt of UPA to shift the blames of their failures to their predecessors. Everybody knows that UPA's performance in their previous stint was horrible as far as tackling the issue of terrorism was concerned. India faced more terrorist attacks in last 5-6 years not because of Kargil or Tashkent but simply because UPA virtually enticed them to come and attack by removing the only existing deterrence we had namely POTA - in the name of vote-bank politics. And not before the attack on Mumbai on 26/11 shook the nation (forget about countless others which preceded 26/11) they realized their mistake and hurriedly got together to enact a renamed version of POTA again. Now coming to Kargil - this war deserves a special mention in modern history. No nation has fought a war in 20th or 21st century with so much restraint and has still achieved the desired results. Somebody has rightly pointed out that even a full-blown war wouldn't have fetched us this result!
Reply | Forward
Indian leadership's sickening inertia problem by rishi parekh on 16 Nov 2009
The Indian army general's point that a weak response to Kargil by India led to a series of terrorist attacks on the country is a valid one. Let us remind ourselves that for almost two years leading up to 26/11 attacks, India had been hit by terrorist attacks practically every two months resulting in many, many deaths. Still, Manmohan Singh did not move against the home minister Patil, who would show up in hospitals in "sympathy" for the bereaved in impeccable suits. I started out as a strong Manmohan Singh supporter, but now have strong reservations about him as an effective PM. His coalition received a good mandate in the recent general election, which his government could have used to move forward with economic reform legislation with urgency. But nothing has happened. There is talk of "we will do this and that reform" but things do not move forward with speed. The political system is sick and suffers from inertia. Meanwhile, Pakis and others exploit India's weaknesses.
Reply | Forward
Kargill;response by Brigadier Ashok Joshi(Retd) on 16 Nov 2009
It is unfortunate that to sell a book the author wishes to blame his comrades. The then COAS,Army Cdr,Corps Cdr and others did whatever was possible to give reply to the intrusion which had taken place.You could not have taken steps to have the matter escalated to war like situation. But the question still remains as why nobody was sacked for the intrusion which remained undetected? I wish the author has highlighted this,as i have no desire to read this book as he has been writing on every subject with which he had no association.
Reply | Forward
My common sense analysis by adaamin on 16 Nov 2009
kargil or no Kargil Pakistan will always have some excuse or the other to bleed India. The real analysis that need to be done is does India have any excuse to attack Pakistan and shut them off once and for all?
Reply | Forward
Anti NDA Propaganda by Ananth Seth on 16 Nov 2009
Mr. Singh, I would be interested in your take on a.the refusal/inability of the then Prime Ministers of India to resolve the Kashmir issue during 1965 and 1975. b. Nehru's role in literally "creating" the China problem. c. The need for continuing article 370. Do not mind, the timing of and the delay in your reaction, make your intentions suspect. Do have political ambitions but in the process, plz do not malign or attempt to disgrace the other political side. Kindly do not politicize the defence aspects. The politicians are already doing a "good" (pun intended) job on that front!
Reply | Forward
Timid Response by Sam on 16 Nov 2009
Easy to talk of Bold responses when one is not in the hot seat, In the light the of what we have seen regarding Chinese incursions and Paki attacks in 2004-09 how would the UPA be different.
Reply | Forward
Why is he out of the closet now ? by Juby Mathews on 16 Nov 2009
What is this General commenting ? No Indian would buy his argument that all the terrorist attacks that happened in India was because of the so-called "timid approach" to the Kargil attacks. In fact General Musharaff was forced to make a shameful surrender to our brave jawans. Where is the correlation between Kargil and the subsequent terror attacks ? In fact, the terror attacks would have been more otherwise.
Reply | Forward
Ignorant Comments by Veer Sain on 16 Nov 2009
The General's comments are unrealistic and uninformed. He should know that the government has to take many factors into consideration, including the international community. It is foolish to think by any sane mind that with US interests in Pakistan and US forces sitting in there, America would have allowed India to beat up Pakistan.
Reply | Forward
Gen's comment by kamusingh on 16 Nov 2009
The mobilazation of troops after the attack on Parliament. and the kargil encounter was push back of the terrorists, and Pak army. We just managed to push them back from our door step. All for political macho image creating. It was punctured by the Kandhar surrender. NDA govt never recovered that image again. Propoganda tried to create a paper victory of Kargil. Churchill said, of the escape of the British army from France, after the fall of France, "Do not clothe this escape with attributes of Victory"
Reply | Forward
lets show pakis by indian on 16 Nov 2009
pakistan thinks that its nuke will act as a deterant and they will get away with anything. Indian army should have crossed the loc and punished the pakis once for and all.
Reply | Forward
To Roy. by Krishna on 16 Nov 2009
I agree completely. The right-wingers in this country are a bunch of wimps who just love blaming everyone especially the Congress for their concerns. If they are so brave and committed to the national cause, why dont they go stand on the border and hold a gun instead of sitting here and filling message boards with their mindless and senseless criticisms.
Reply | Forward
TIMID COUNTRY by Sachin on 16 Nov 2009
A timid country my India. Can't believe we just wasted a whole opportunity to bring Kashmir back from Pakistanis.
Reply | Forward
Timid response for 60 years: Part-2 by Raj on 16 Nov 2009
The 1000 character limit is irritating.The Pakis have been prejudiced against India since beginning. How this happened is another chapter. But what is true is that they hate us for no valid reason. They think that it is their birthright to damage India. To satisfy this animal instinct, they can go to any in-human extent. Hate-India is theri reason of existence. If they lose this reason/ motivation they will not know what to do. India has failed to increase their cost for adopting such a line. Hence our people are suffereing. We want their players to play in IPL. Sharad Pawar say, India will welcome Pakistani players in Mumbai if they qualify for final of World Cup!!!. Have we lost senses. Such language give a message of weakness. Our prime Minister is keen to start talks. For what purpose?
Reply | Forward
Absolutely foolish analysis---- by romesh.sharma on 16 Nov 2009
This retired General is apparently interested to achieve some kind award from the Congress/ruling UPA and his criticism/ blames to them serving Generals and the Govt is obscurely ignominious to the Dence Forces and the then Govt.His passion fo a soldier is too exaggerated and unjustified.He has to know the moral sensibility produced by profound difference of circumstances,failing that he has falsified the judgement.What was then the reaction to back-stabbing attack on India by most unscrupulous enemy couldn't be underestimated.India pushed the enemy and retained its positions and not to forget the enemy suffered much more,which has been told and confirmed by both Mr Nawaz Sharif and Musharraf.This could result to worse for it wasn't a declared war and no one had slightest idea.What was done was the great job of our forces and diplomatically well dealt by then NDA/BJP.Through all out War India couldn't have achieved more.Increasing terrorism is to blamed to the dirty Cong polcies like
Reply | Forward
India is yet to get a Leader who can RUN the country by Umesh on 16 Nov 2009
It is unfortunate that we during the 60 years had only one or two political leaders who sood up to the real challanges the country facing. I\The cargil, the parliament attack, we should have given a tit for tat response. Now the Pakis knw well that even they send few tanks and jet fighters to our country, our parliamentarians will discuss it out in another six months and the outcome would be that, we are peace lovers, we should not act like the pakis... shame on the leadership...... I sometimes compelled to feel guilty of being an indian....
Reply | Forward
Timid response for 60 years: Part-1 by Raj on 16 Nov 2009
That's absolutely true. What kind of Rajputs, Sikhs, Marathas and other warrior clans are we, that we have given no befitting response to Pakis over the past 60 years. Musharraf, had once remarked that "Indians are incapable of reacting". He was right. I don't know, whether it is our strength or our bane. The Paki policy is clear and it is like this. They will never let go of the terror card inflict damage to India, come what way. There thinking is that they should never compromise on their strengths. As per them the Terror-factories represent a unique competence which hardly anyone in the world can replicate. Also they will continue to keep the pressure of terrorist strike on with the terror acts suitable spaced in time and space. They will never let the pressure reduce. The Kashmir issue is a ruse to continue this behaviour. It is foolish for Indians to even think of talking to Pakis. They don't understand this language.
Reply | Forward
Wimps by joel on 16 Nov 2009
Generals love war because they can claim to be heros for ordering jawans to become martyrs. Its easy to say start a full scale war but is it practical? Roy ur a wimp I can confirm. And the man they released for hostages who is responsible for the attacks!!! Would Roy give his family up as hostage in exchange for the passengers? Indian donkeys who beat their chest calling themselves nationalist but would not go to the front line themselves. Israel is a miserable country that dont exchange for hostages (they will for galit) but can India do it? What would those who lost loved one feel? And if Saeed was not released do you think the organisation would be dead??? somebody would come up and attack India. Roy u should offer yourself in exchange for any hostage in future. you probably will run like a mouse at the sound of gunfire.
Reply | Forward
HARD TRUTH by M V Chilukuri on 16 Nov 2009
Well, it's well known truth that Indian Govt approach to any terror attacks including Kargil has been TIMID. It's no wonder, there huge decline in young Indians joining Defence forces and moreover there is no pride factor in joining Armed Forces after Kargil War.
Reply | Forward
Truth is beautiful but hard to know--- by romesh.sharma on 16 Nov 2009
Mr Chilukuri,Kargil wasn't mere terror-attack but a well planned and silent and surprise invasion on our country.The response of India wasN#t timid but of hesitation and elayed because of terrain and absolutely unexpected on-slaught.To tackle that kind of situation it does need time,especially under that kind of circumstances.Not to write much one must first research and read all about Kargil War before calling it Timid.There is enough material available in internet.This action was of much greater success and honour than 71.Youth not willing to join DefenceForces has nothing to do with Kargil or other Wars/border conflicts but its nepotism and corruption in recruitment system which is demoralizing.There are plenty young men and women who have the craving to join and serve the Nation but its very rare these true people really get some chance to be in uniform.The other factor is possibly vast difference of pay-scale between Officer and ordinary soldier;and ofcourse poor equipments.A fine and supportive uniform and equipment gives high spirits anf boosts the morale of every soldier.I was soldier and would like to be again one if reborn in India or if asked even now for I feel born to serve my nation.
Reply | Forward
Factual...what more by Roy on 16 Nov 2009
The real truth will wound the die hard extreme right wingers in these columns...as seen by fellow countrymen like me they are mere paper tigers or wimps in every sense of the word. Dithered..they shied away from the realities....cowered in the face of attack & gave in to terror tactics by releasing the very man now the bane of all the attacks in India...they blame the Congress & the minorities for all their woes...call themselves nationalists...pitable lot the whole bunch. Come on wimps ..lets hear your views
Reply | Forward
Thursday, August 13, 2009
How to handle China?...Public Platform !
Zopag News Network
Now, it’s the time to act. It’s enough and India should not take it lying down. India’s prestige is at stake and we just can’t be bullied by China anymore.
It’s indeed shocking and daring on the part of a Chinese strategist who asserted that India should be broken into 20 to 30 independent states with the help of the ‘friendly countries’ like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan.
We need to remind these Chinese that India has come a long way since 1962. The message needs to be sent loud and clear. India needs to have a well-planned strategy to counter the evil designs of China. We need to be pro-active and must consider all possible options to thwart any aggression on the part of the Chinese.
India would do well to corner China globally. We should weigh the pros and cons of whatever action we might contemplate against China.
Zopag.com asks its readers: What to do with China?
1) Align with America and try to isolate China globally
2) Use Dalai Lama and Tibet issue to keep China in check
3) Diplomatically isolate China
4) Boycott Chinese products
5) Take Chinese human rights violations to the UN
6) Talk to China, but be firm.
Chinese threat by Gireesh on 2009-08-13 00:00:00
I feel a combination of the above stated action points should be put together to evolve a broad strategy. China's advantage with respect ot other countries lies in its massive economic strength which is fuelling its military upgradation. India will have to improve its economy. But this will not be enough. We need to form a string of alliances with countries like Japan , Australia and even vietnam. Then we should have a strategic alliance with USA. All these steps will be opposed tooth and nail by China's proxies in India, but we have to push on regardless.We should also allow private participation in our defence industries.
Reply | Forward
Never rely on chinies word by Indian on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
The only was is to be so strong that they fear you. Get the latest weapons money can buy till you develop an indigenous system of your own which is cheap and will help the local industry. Never overlook on the border incursions by china. Build the best infrastructure on border area for easy deployment and a regular exercise to show you war ready worthiness. Use to the fullest extent the aerospace capabilities from ISRO to guard the country 24X7.
Reply | Forward
china by Sanjiv Dhume on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
First and formost we need to reliaze that no one is going to fight our wars. So, we should stop relying and worrying about any Tom, Dick and Harry comming from US and other westeren nation and saying some thing on Kashmir or other. Who gives a damn who says what, we should Think, Act and Do the right thing for India, and not woory about other. In this not only Indian Governmet but also indian media are so obsessed with west, that they carry 24-hr news. why do we care e if some third rate actor in USA marryies or divorces in USA, it is reported in Inida. Do they even know who Amitabh is in west. If they don't care to know why do we? Why do we have such complexion. The moment we reliaze this and act no one can stop us.
Reply | Forward
breakup theory by tc shivaswamy on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
we have billions of landless 7 unemployed people who can be trained 7 settled in our border states with proper military training.compulsory military training to all youth above 18 yrs,7 creating national awareness among all so that the real value of liberty is understoodby all.as eternal vigilance is the price of liberty &freedomthe entire cuntry should be united.whatchinese r telling is not new many of our own progressives r harping on the same theory to boost their selfish agenda.It is history repeatingwhich has many lessons for us. Have we learnt anything from it or are we aunder the spell of bollywood dreams?wake up motherland...vande mataram...
Reply | Forward
China and founders of india by Jake on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For the sake of Nehru, Gandhi and Jinnah foolishness to see hindu and muslim divide, they should have divided KASHMIR. Hindu portion of Kashmir for Nehru to rule as PM and Muslim portion of Kashmir to Jinnah. Then India would kicked both and captured Kashmir. The rest of India, Nepa,. Burma, Lanka, Pak, Tibet... should be one country BHARAT under AN ABLE STRONG LEADER that could KICK THE ARSE OF ANGREZ AND CHINA . Coming to caste stuff that China is blabbering, the aboriginal Indians were one race/family, they had no problem with one brother being Brahmon, other being Ksatriya (guard), other taking care of cleaning and last family member being trades person. Caste was all about sharing work in community of Aborginals Hodoos. THEN CAME OUTSIDERS, they only wanted to join certain professions/caste, this is when the frictions happened. Caste was never bad when aborginal native indians practiced it. SO CHINESE BANKS ITS KNOWLEDGE on Angrezi divisive mindset on caste, religion, etc. India should not be shoved into chinese face to save Angrez. But Chinese are talking like Angrez to please the angrez.
Reply | Forward
China and founders of india by Jake on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For the sake of Nehru, Gandhi and Jinnah foolishness to see hindu and muslim divide, they should have divided KASHMIR. Hindu portion of Kashmir for Nehru to rule as PM and Muslim portion of Kashmir to Jinnah. Then India would kicked both and captured Kashmir. The rest of India, Nepa,. Burma, Lanka, Pak, Tibet... should be one country BHARAT under AN ABLE STRONG LEADER that could KICK THE ARSE OF ANGREZ AND CHINA . Coming to caste stuff that China is blabbering, the aboriginal Indians were one race/family, they had no problem with one brother being Brahmon, other being Ksatriya (guard), other taking care of cleaning and last family member being trades person. Caste was all about sharing work in community of Aborginals Hodoos. THEN CAME OUTSIDERS, they only wanted to join certain professions/caste, this is when the frictions happened. Caste was never bad when aborginal native indians practiced it. SO CHINESE BANKS ITS KNOWLEDGE on Angrezi divisive mindset on caste, religion, etc. India should not be shoved into chinese face to save Angrez. But Chinese are talking like Angrez to please the angrez.
Reply | Forward
UNITY by mr a on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
no body helps any body.India should build up all forces with latest weapones ( Israiel,USA. sweden weapone ) .no kick back in this deal for the sake of nation. power is the only way for deterence not for war .keep ur politics option open if necessery ... we have no choice left
Reply | Forward
by sunny on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Well lets not get emotional we know we are a weak nation & china can run over us any moment they want let our prime minister say PLEASE to them & sorry for anything they felt bad.
Reply | Forward
Just recognize Taiwan by Indian in Taiwan on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
By recognizing Taiwan as a country and establishing full deplomatic relationship with Taiwan India will not only hit China where it hurts most but will also secure trust of largest foreign investor in China. Over 50% of large companies in China are owned by Taiwanese. India should focus on taking this valuable asset out of China and bring them over to India.
Reply | Forward
Contain Chaina by Sid on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Every one is entitled to an opinion and so does China. They will think in their national interest and so must we. The point is if they do try anything, what is the leverage that India has or does not have to prevent such a calimity. For proxy war: India must develop resources within china that must be sleeper cells which will create havoc in case of a go ahead from their handlers here. For Full scope war: One of the biggest ve learning of the cold war was mutually assured destruction. India should scale its capabilities to ensure china does not survive if India is at risk. we can all be naive and imagine we are as powerful as china , but we are not. may be in some fields we are ahead and in some we are not , but ultimately money counts and china is way ahead of us, so in peace time working on building counter measure assets is the best bet to keep our enimies at bay. And unfortunately this cant be done overnight !!
Reply | Forward
Measures to counter chinese agression by S Desai on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
There are several things india must do as a nation to counter chinese agression. 1.Put claim on Tibet which is occupied by china and make our stand on Sikkim and Arunchal very loud and clear. 2.Support Xinjiang region's efforts to seek freedom from china both politically and financially. 3.Aksai chin,we must get it back keeping in view it's strategic importance. 4.Involve our north eastern states to have active part in the development of our nation. 5.Indian govt. must support industries,so that our reliance on china is as low as possible and alternatively we can also increase our exports which will directly compete china. 6.Indian army needs to develop strong infrastructure along sino-indian border. 7.Diplomatic efforts must be consistently active in the fields like WTO,UN against China. 8.improve relationship with china's enemies and even try to create enemies. These are just a few points that must be initiated so that these people will know their limits and they must always feel the heat from us.
Reply | Forward
Breaking India by Abdul Ghani on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Thanks to China. It has made us to realise that our infight basing on religion,region,caste and language are dividing us. Our patriotism seems to have vanished. Elections are faught not on the basis of social issues but on the basis of sentimental issues which divides the society and the entire Nation.. Now atleast our leaderss should make the common man to realise that we are Indians first and all other things are next.Political parys based on reliion, region, languages should be barred. Then no force in the earth will succeed in dividing us.
Reply | Forward
How to deal with World by Ram on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Well simple, we need to talk from stregth. make India more and more strong, economically as well as intellectually. These stupid Chinese are chockroches. They will keep on surfacing. We have to start showing stregth starting from pakistan. Teach a strong lession. It will make whole World to start respecting. Otherwise, remeber respect is never begged. It is earned. The way Sonia brigade and disable MMS are acting, we are looking like a laughting stock all over World. No wounder, every Nation will count us as a looser.
Reply | Forward
China Vs India by ravi on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
GIVE UP. Chinese are way organized,disciplined and smart. Indians arrogant,loud mouthed,greedy,unorganized,gloating people.
Reply | Forward
What to do with China? by geesang on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Why doesn't Indian medoa for once do some factual analysis? In a modern world where no one is a permanent friend or foe none of the above on its own will work. Even to suggest diplomatically isolate a country which is expected to be economically at par with US is foolish. Multilateral engagement with China, expanding the economy vigorously, engaging China and the EU etc. are the only means for India to stay relevant.
China by Chackochan on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For a long time ,we r taking chin's tantrums lying down.Now it is high time we react positively, enough is enough. Try to rake all the issues globally, Tibet, human rights violations, stop Chinese goods. They are playing the big brother game. Re orient our military strategy to contain china.
Reply | Forward
Get a handle on china by Raj on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Go full blast on all of the above without any delay.
Reply | Forward
by geetika on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
we should stop all trade/ties with China.Not allow any made in china products to enter our territory. Boycott chinese products.
Reply | Forward
How to handle India by Kathir Gaman on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Let us not ask ourselves how to handle china but let us first of all ask ourselves HOW TO HANDLE OUR OWN CORRUPTED POLITICIANS? corrupted gouvernments, and How to uptroot the corruption in all over India through a tough law. without stopping immediately the corruption and and corrupted politicias , you can't handle china where there is no corruption and if anyone is found in corruption he will be in life imprisonment or executed within 24 hours. But in India it is different and corruption is free everywhere. and china can buy a communist minded Indian from India for any amount of money!!!!! Only a better educational system, corruptless and strong economic India can handle china or Pakistan.
Reply | Forward
Let us break India into 20 states by kathir Gaman on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Yes It is quiet possible that , if China wants, due to our backward policy on education, corruption and we have still very old politicians running the gouvernment.countries like Nepals, Sikkim, should be hedlped by India to reduce chinese influences. communist parties in Indis should also give a hand to India but not to china. India can still succeed in keeping the whole Indian states under central gouvernment on codition that all these troubles states should be helped economically to satisfy the local poplations. It is time for us to stop giving aides to other foreign countries but let us first focus on our own states to improve their life as Indians. All the Indians states close to china and Pakistan should be hedlped impartially and make all these states to feel that are happiest citizens of India .
Reply | Forward
Tackling China by anand s devnani on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
How to deal with China requires careful thought. Bravado , slogans or chest thumping will not help.WE must deal with China the way it has dealt with USA ( remember in 1990's China needed certification each year from US President for trade etc. At present USA is dependent on China for credit- China holds trillions in USA govt debt instruments). WE need to work hard and be disciplined to strengthen our economy,defence both internal and external,scientific research and education systems and society at large (no internal divisions).Then think of tackling China . Probably it may not be necessary then. Germany and Sweden are few countries who are not members of UN security council etc but in their quiet way keep working hard and you don't hear any body making disparaging remarks about those countries.Hard work and discipline.
Reply | Forward
HAVE YOUR SAY: How to handle China by Viv on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
The best way to counter them is to improve our nuclear forces. Build more Nuc Subs, and improve the quality of our delivery systems. It will always be better if we depend on our own R&D, rather than depend on others.
Reply | Forward
by Joe Dias on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Boycotting Chinese products is a good idea but do we have an alternative cheap source? The only way to keep China in check is for India to be an economical global power, which is very much within its reach. India should have a higher foothold economically.
Reply | Forward
Barking dogs seldom bite - That's China by Appu on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Ignore!The most powerful weapon.Barking dogs seldom bite.Let me tell you that China is already in pieces but just held by the force from the communist party. Come see the Chinese folks in North America and they will tell you all. It is a crumbling world, just that it starts from the center and moves outwards....so we cannot see it. Talk to these folks who have migrated to North America and they will tell you how much they despise their country. I have not come across a single soul yet, in the past 8 years here who is from India and says he hates India. That is the difference. Indians move out of India not because they hate India but they just want to make a few more bucks and live the American dream for a while, whereas Chinese move out because they hate the system to the core. See the demonstartions they have out here against their own country. IT is a "man eating man" scenario there. Being behind the iron curtains, the media is suppressed so as to contain all shitty stuff within. So guess what happens?? It will rot inside and eventually explode. No matter how much their warfare capabilities improve and so does their economy, India will always remain a force to RECKON with and history says that. The best "mantra" is to give them a BIG ignore.....and of course keep good ties with the USA...goes without saying. Trust me we need that at all times.
Reply | Forward
Let Everone know this ! by Proud Indian on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
a) Spread awareness among all Indians about China's evil intentions. Let our media ensure that every Indian must be aware of it. This should be debated in schools, colleges & all possible places so that people are mentally prepared to take on any such onslaught. Preparedness is the first line of defence. b) Talk to China & raise this issue on every forum. Show to the world what China is up to. c) Isolate our communists leaders who are the biggest supporters of China. If they don't listen, we may treat them as we treat anti-nationals. This will be a big blow to China.
Reply | Forward
Great India, dream will not come true by Raghav Lyon on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
India should be ready to improve herself from inside which includes castism and racism. Everyone has to take onus to work for India not for themselves, community, religion, state and if some space left then they think about country. Not to mention corruption has to be lower, I am not saying has to be removed but should be lowered. India should open manufacturing units in different segments and provide work to the unemployed population, it has to be controlled by semi-government organization. Once this is done then imporve the infrastructre in border to china, pakistan, bangladesh. After that stop import from China and use Tibet & Ughyr to weak china and look for new opportunity to weaken. Be a good ally with South korea, america, taiwan, japan and other countries who doesn't have good or strong relation with china, which mean very good foreign policy and diplomacy. Oh.. all above is just a dream because we Indians, proud to be indian, have water in bones. We always look for chinese product which are cheap, not mention chineese girls too. I guess I have said enough rest is upto we indian and our great indian politicians
Reply | Forward
China by Paul Alexander Gupta on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China is one country which has boundary problems with every neighbor. Koreans, Indians, Japanese, Vietnam, Thai, Koreans, Tibetians, Taiwan, and so on. China is a loosely conglomerate of many ethnic communities, many languages, dialects, people, religion, etc. They know that they have to keep pushing the people down, aggravate countries like India who have no foreign policy on how to handle it, bribe parties like CPM and CPI who can be their paid agents in India, play with human rights and they can keep doing it as long as American customers and others worldwide gets cheaper products from them. So how should India handle them? Easy...Have a comprehensive policy. We need to have military, politically, tactically handle them. They are emotionless. We cannot show emotions. We need to show them that India is a mature country which is not going to take their bullshit.
Reply | Forward
Indian Strategy by S.Venkat on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
1. Talk to China but be firm. 2. If Any of Our Neighbours Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan attempt to destabilise India-Please straightaway Demolish Them. 3. Put India on a Solid Economic Platform so that we have more Respect, Power, Clout on the International Arena. We have no choice on this issue. Lets do it.
Reply | Forward
How to deal with China by Thom Dank on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
1) Simple. Why India scared to attach Pakistan even though thousands die in India by the terrorists from Pakistan? They said they will use nuclear weapon to protect their territory even if India did not use it first. India should publically state we will use nuclear weapon if China takes an inch of Indian land. 2) India should claim Tibet and China occupied Kashmir back and support every independence movement in China. 3) Accelerate economic development so that we have enough money to modernize weapons and build infrastructure through out chinese border
Reply | Forward
Chinese threat by P K Agrawal on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Sir, With the exception of the first suggestion on aligning with US, none of the other suggestion would work to address Chinese design to break up India. This is real. Most importantly, Indians in general, and the mandarins in South block must see through the Chinese mentality. We have not learned our lessons from the war in 1962 and continued incursions by Chinese in to Indian territory. Unfortunately, Indian politicians and adminsitration has no long-term vision and committment on national security and integrity. Soft paddling with China does not work. They only understand the language of force. we must deal with chinese from the position of strength. External threats can not be handles if we are weak internally. We have not taken any steps for integration of eastern states and Kashmir in to the mainstream. Have free flow of population from other parts of India into these states, allow population from other parts of India to settle in kashmir, handle separatist forces with iron hand (just as the Chinese do) and take national security threats seriously. Only then the external threats can be handled and addressed successfully. Take note that other nations only understand the language of strength. We are too timid and get bullied by everyone. serwe have been soft on internal security threats from maoists and other separatists. , in fri c.
Reply | Forward
Make a reality study. by Indian on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China has to study the history again & again. Budhism, a religion that is still like hinduism and part / heart & soul of hinduism, is there in China for more than 2000 years. Chinese are not the first ones to learn / start martial arts in the world, but India is. Maha Bodhi, an Indian budhist monk taught martial arts to China and the Shaolin temple was built by the Chinese kings for this monk to teach the chinese in Hennan province. There are many temples, sculptures, artifacts are the gifts of these religious / cultural venture in to this land. Chinese music & arts has quintessentially Indian influence. And the knowledge of science, maths, astronomy & astrology etc are part / essence of Indian vedas, epics, puranas & saints contributed these and many more in Sanskrit language. Yoga, Ayurveda & Kamasutra are not gimmicks and practiced in India & world over. The spirituality, attainment & human life and death were elaborately discussed in these knowledge banks. The words, explanations of aeroplane, sound tracing arrows, the deadly weapons like Brahmastra, the culturing of human embryos outside the body (what has been done to 101 Kauravas in Mahabharatha), leaving one's body and entering of others body by the soul, vidyut (electricity) etc. can be found in Sanskrit literature which has been forgotten in India, but the modern world science have found these things practically. So these knowledge that India had, cannot be said just as fictions. So if China wants to take on India by any dubious methods or spreading misgivings, it will face utter failure. World has to think why India practicing caste system or discrimination in its soil & against its own people. For thousands of years India was facing aggression, invasions for being too good and having ancient knowledge and vast wealth. The enmity and dividing & snatching away mentality of those has divided this country. India is waking up to its past and it will one day rule the world with its knowledge & wisdom as much as in the history by its natural & greatest of great strength, but without force, or aggression and political control. World has forgotten this and external world tried to twist the facts by going against the reality. Let the truth behold the future. Falsification will fail and bring shame when the truth is out. India has to be patient and stand up to the occasions against such attempts.
Reply | Forward
Go by truth. by Indian on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China has to study the history again & again. Budhism, a religion that is still like hinduism and part / heart & soul of hinduism, is there in China for more than 2000 years. Chinese are not the first ones to learn / start martial arts, but India is. Maha Bodhi, an Indian budhist monk taught martial arts to China and the Shaolin temple was built by the Chinese kings for this monk to teach the chinese in Hennan province. There are many temples, sculptures, artifacts are the gifts of these religious / cultural venture in to this land. Chinese music & arts has quintessentially Indian influence. And the knowledge of science, maths, astronomy & astrology etc are part / essence of Indian vedas, epics, puranas & saints contributed these and many more in Sanskrit language. Yoga, Ayurveda & Kamasutra are not gimmicks and practiced in India & world over. The spirituality, attainment & human life and death were elaborately discussed in these knowledge banks. The words, explanations of aeroplane, sound tracing arrows, the deadly weapons like Brahmastra, the culturing of human embryos outside the body (what has been done to 101 Kauravas in Mahabharatha), leaving one's body and entering of others body by the soul, vidyut (electricity) etc. can be found in Sanskrit literature which has been forgotten in India, but the modern world science have found these things practically. So these knowledge that India had, cannot be said just as fictions. So if China wants to take on India by any dubious methods or spreading misgivings, it will face utter failure. World has to think why India practicing caste system or discrimination in its soil & against its own people. For thousands of years India was facing aggression, invasions for being too good and having ancient knowledge and vast wealth. The enmity and dividing & snatching away mentality of those has divided this country. India is waking up to its past and it will one day rule the world with its knowledge & wisdom as much as in the history by its natural & greatest of great strength, but without force, or aggression and political control. World has forgotten this and external world tried to twist the facts by going against the reality. Let the truth behold the future. Falsification will fail and bring shame when the truth is out. India has to be patient and stand up to the occasions against such attempts.
Reply | Forward
Our Indian race by Ram on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
India is way too deferential towards China. India MUST emulate China, act for act, in the way it treats India. With contempt. In addtion, all Indic peoples in Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka need to be reminded that they are not Han Chinese but of Indo-Asian racial heritage. None of us would fare well in an Asia dominated by Han Chinese mongols and it up to us to protect our South Asian homeland and our children and grandchildren. We cannot rely on anyone else. India needs to take a page from Israel in defending its own race.
Reply | Forward
Open discussion. by Satisha on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Start an India specific web that is maintained with government official views and statements as well as supported by a publishing house with public / netizens views. With a reality based propagation of truth and facts, make this web available through out the world and viewed by all the people / concerned governments' officials in those countries. A nation's strength lies in its ability to show the truth against false propaganda and make these propagandists shut their mouth when falsifying. Invite those prominent people /netizens from both India and China for open discussion and talks. Government to government talks will remain in secrets, but the open views will have great impact as it won't allow for lies.
Reply | Forward
handling china by ajaybali on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
best strategy is to be on constant vigil ,stay united at all cost ,be an Indian first and Indian last ,keep on the lines of communication open with china ,but do not compromise on national integrity . China is an economic giant ,economic ties with china are benefecial to India , it will be better for India to align itself with friendly countries like Japan USA and vietnam ,wait for favourable time ,which is bound to come ,democracy in china is going to come eventually ,promote the development of a democratic china not a communist china ,keep the lines of communication open with taiwan ,tibet and ugers
Reply | Forward
How to handle China? by Raj on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
i. Enemy's enymy is my friend ... Did I hear Taiwan/Tibet my friend .. ii. Kick CPM party out of India : send them to China instead ... iii. Teach our next generation to love n care our own country right after parents .. iv. Hit where it hearts !! Ban chinese good or impose heavy duty .. v. Play with your enemies week point : be sympathetic to Tibetans, Uyghur, non existing human rights in China .. vi. Do we really have foreign policy ? If not may we see some ( efective ones !! ) vii. Have strong policies ( which I doubt considering all these CHIMPs in the business of pilitics ) to effective improve our country interms of infrustructure and business inflows ..
Reply | Forward
China my foot by dwaraka on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
When we have those politicians who are worse than the talibs or the terrorists group this is bound to happen. So far the public has written the response what about the policitians dont they read news paper. First let us cut them into 30 pieces each and then go behind china.
Reply | Forward
Break China in to 1000 pieces by auplainsman on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Diplomatically isolating China is impossible for India right now. The best way to tackle a bull is to tackle it by it horns. We should support freedom struggle of the Tibetan people by supplying them with arms and ammunition as well as help the separatist Uygurs in Xinjiang the same way also establish full diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Block all goods that are being imported from China and tarnish their reputation by supplying bad products to the rest of the world as made in China (Chinese are doing this to us already, so this is fair). India has ignored China long enough, we need a comprehensive strategy to reclaim all areas that were lost to China up to McMohan line. Arrogant Chinese should be given a taste of their own medicine. India should help break china in to 1000 pieces which would be better not only for Asia but the entire world.
Reply | Forward
Break China in to 1000 pieces by auplainsman on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Diplomatically isolating China is impossible for India right now. The best way to tackle a bull is to tackle it by it horns. We should support freedom struggle of the Tibetan people by supplying them with arms and ammunition as well as help the separatist Uygurs in Xinjiang the same way also establish full diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Block all goods that are being imported from China and tarnish their reputation by supplying bad products to the rest of the world as made in China (Chinese are doing this to us already, so this is fair). India has ignored China long enough, we need a comprehensive strategy to reclaim all areas that were lost to China up to McMohan line. Arrogant Chinese should be given a taste of their own medicine. India should help break china in to 1000 pieces which would be better not only for Asia but the entire world.
Reply | Forward
HAVE YOUR SAY: How to handle China? by meher on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
There is no doubt that China has expansionist designs and India has to be very careful while dealing with China.Our late prime minister Jawahar Lal Nehru made the mistake of believig in China's glib talk and suffered humiliating defeat in 1962.That should be enough to India to learn its lesson.Although India is much better prepared to defend itself,but there should be no copmlacency and we must remain on guard all the time.
Reply | Forward
CHINA by AJ on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Do all the above. Most importantly stop accepting Tibet as part of China. Stir trouble in Xinkiang province. Kick the Maoists out of Nepal who are stooges of China working to damage Indo-Nepal ties forever. Problem is of course our pusillanimous polity which is well and alive as can be gauged from PM's statements in Egypt.
Reply | Forward
How to handle China? by VasuDev on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
None of 1~6 options u listed will work. India, if tried on those options it will set further low its prestige. US has $15 Trillion debt to China. US itself may later sell California to China. US don't help. Best option to deter Chian interests- Support Taiwan Independece, India should voice Taiwan Independence in UN.
Reply | Forward
China by karamirch on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Position nuclear ICBMs towards Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong (like what Russia did in Cuba). China will do the same to us but at least they will know we mean business. Fester problems in NW China, Tibet and other non-Han regions. There are many locals who would do that for money as regional China is very very poor. Keep their administration and army busy with internal squabbles
Reply | Forward
by ARUN on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
INDIA MUST DEVELOPE H-BOMB ASAP TO COUNTER CHINA AND THE TERRORIST STATE PAKISTAN.JAI HIND.ALWAYS.
Reply | Forward
China by Ashok Bhagat on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
All these suggestion are OK, but they are all palliative. The point is that we have to be strong, united and corruption free. That with some smart leadership we will be just fine with or without those 6 items.
Reply | Forward
by aubrey bout on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Do not trust the chinese. We must be self sufficient. India must forget to follow blindly chinese foriegn policy. We should do what is in our interest and not go with china just to please them. This policy creates a kind of weakness on our part.
Reply | Forward
Now, it’s the time to act. It’s enough and India should not take it lying down. India’s prestige is at stake and we just can’t be bullied by China anymore.
It’s indeed shocking and daring on the part of a Chinese strategist who asserted that India should be broken into 20 to 30 independent states with the help of the ‘friendly countries’ like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan.
We need to remind these Chinese that India has come a long way since 1962. The message needs to be sent loud and clear. India needs to have a well-planned strategy to counter the evil designs of China. We need to be pro-active and must consider all possible options to thwart any aggression on the part of the Chinese.
India would do well to corner China globally. We should weigh the pros and cons of whatever action we might contemplate against China.
Zopag.com asks its readers: What to do with China?
1) Align with America and try to isolate China globally
2) Use Dalai Lama and Tibet issue to keep China in check
3) Diplomatically isolate China
4) Boycott Chinese products
5) Take Chinese human rights violations to the UN
6) Talk to China, but be firm.
Chinese threat by Gireesh on 2009-08-13 00:00:00
I feel a combination of the above stated action points should be put together to evolve a broad strategy. China's advantage with respect ot other countries lies in its massive economic strength which is fuelling its military upgradation. India will have to improve its economy. But this will not be enough. We need to form a string of alliances with countries like Japan , Australia and even vietnam. Then we should have a strategic alliance with USA. All these steps will be opposed tooth and nail by China's proxies in India, but we have to push on regardless.We should also allow private participation in our defence industries.
Reply | Forward
Never rely on chinies word by Indian on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
The only was is to be so strong that they fear you. Get the latest weapons money can buy till you develop an indigenous system of your own which is cheap and will help the local industry. Never overlook on the border incursions by china. Build the best infrastructure on border area for easy deployment and a regular exercise to show you war ready worthiness. Use to the fullest extent the aerospace capabilities from ISRO to guard the country 24X7.
Reply | Forward
china by Sanjiv Dhume on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
First and formost we need to reliaze that no one is going to fight our wars. So, we should stop relying and worrying about any Tom, Dick and Harry comming from US and other westeren nation and saying some thing on Kashmir or other. Who gives a damn who says what, we should Think, Act and Do the right thing for India, and not woory about other. In this not only Indian Governmet but also indian media are so obsessed with west, that they carry 24-hr news. why do we care e if some third rate actor in USA marryies or divorces in USA, it is reported in Inida. Do they even know who Amitabh is in west. If they don't care to know why do we? Why do we have such complexion. The moment we reliaze this and act no one can stop us.
Reply | Forward
breakup theory by tc shivaswamy on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
we have billions of landless 7 unemployed people who can be trained 7 settled in our border states with proper military training.compulsory military training to all youth above 18 yrs,7 creating national awareness among all so that the real value of liberty is understoodby all.as eternal vigilance is the price of liberty &freedomthe entire cuntry should be united.whatchinese r telling is not new many of our own progressives r harping on the same theory to boost their selfish agenda.It is history repeatingwhich has many lessons for us. Have we learnt anything from it or are we aunder the spell of bollywood dreams?wake up motherland...vande mataram...
Reply | Forward
China and founders of india by Jake on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For the sake of Nehru, Gandhi and Jinnah foolishness to see hindu and muslim divide, they should have divided KASHMIR. Hindu portion of Kashmir for Nehru to rule as PM and Muslim portion of Kashmir to Jinnah. Then India would kicked both and captured Kashmir. The rest of India, Nepa,. Burma, Lanka, Pak, Tibet... should be one country BHARAT under AN ABLE STRONG LEADER that could KICK THE ARSE OF ANGREZ AND CHINA . Coming to caste stuff that China is blabbering, the aboriginal Indians were one race/family, they had no problem with one brother being Brahmon, other being Ksatriya (guard), other taking care of cleaning and last family member being trades person. Caste was all about sharing work in community of Aborginals Hodoos. THEN CAME OUTSIDERS, they only wanted to join certain professions/caste, this is when the frictions happened. Caste was never bad when aborginal native indians practiced it. SO CHINESE BANKS ITS KNOWLEDGE on Angrezi divisive mindset on caste, religion, etc. India should not be shoved into chinese face to save Angrez. But Chinese are talking like Angrez to please the angrez.
Reply | Forward
China and founders of india by Jake on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For the sake of Nehru, Gandhi and Jinnah foolishness to see hindu and muslim divide, they should have divided KASHMIR. Hindu portion of Kashmir for Nehru to rule as PM and Muslim portion of Kashmir to Jinnah. Then India would kicked both and captured Kashmir. The rest of India, Nepa,. Burma, Lanka, Pak, Tibet... should be one country BHARAT under AN ABLE STRONG LEADER that could KICK THE ARSE OF ANGREZ AND CHINA . Coming to caste stuff that China is blabbering, the aboriginal Indians were one race/family, they had no problem with one brother being Brahmon, other being Ksatriya (guard), other taking care of cleaning and last family member being trades person. Caste was all about sharing work in community of Aborginals Hodoos. THEN CAME OUTSIDERS, they only wanted to join certain professions/caste, this is when the frictions happened. Caste was never bad when aborginal native indians practiced it. SO CHINESE BANKS ITS KNOWLEDGE on Angrezi divisive mindset on caste, religion, etc. India should not be shoved into chinese face to save Angrez. But Chinese are talking like Angrez to please the angrez.
Reply | Forward
UNITY by mr a on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
no body helps any body.India should build up all forces with latest weapones ( Israiel,USA. sweden weapone ) .no kick back in this deal for the sake of nation. power is the only way for deterence not for war .keep ur politics option open if necessery ... we have no choice left
Reply | Forward
by sunny on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Well lets not get emotional we know we are a weak nation & china can run over us any moment they want let our prime minister say PLEASE to them & sorry for anything they felt bad.
Reply | Forward
Just recognize Taiwan by Indian in Taiwan on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
By recognizing Taiwan as a country and establishing full deplomatic relationship with Taiwan India will not only hit China where it hurts most but will also secure trust of largest foreign investor in China. Over 50% of large companies in China are owned by Taiwanese. India should focus on taking this valuable asset out of China and bring them over to India.
Reply | Forward
Contain Chaina by Sid on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Every one is entitled to an opinion and so does China. They will think in their national interest and so must we. The point is if they do try anything, what is the leverage that India has or does not have to prevent such a calimity. For proxy war: India must develop resources within china that must be sleeper cells which will create havoc in case of a go ahead from their handlers here. For Full scope war: One of the biggest ve learning of the cold war was mutually assured destruction. India should scale its capabilities to ensure china does not survive if India is at risk. we can all be naive and imagine we are as powerful as china , but we are not. may be in some fields we are ahead and in some we are not , but ultimately money counts and china is way ahead of us, so in peace time working on building counter measure assets is the best bet to keep our enimies at bay. And unfortunately this cant be done overnight !!
Reply | Forward
Measures to counter chinese agression by S Desai on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
There are several things india must do as a nation to counter chinese agression. 1.Put claim on Tibet which is occupied by china and make our stand on Sikkim and Arunchal very loud and clear. 2.Support Xinjiang region's efforts to seek freedom from china both politically and financially. 3.Aksai chin,we must get it back keeping in view it's strategic importance. 4.Involve our north eastern states to have active part in the development of our nation. 5.Indian govt. must support industries,so that our reliance on china is as low as possible and alternatively we can also increase our exports which will directly compete china. 6.Indian army needs to develop strong infrastructure along sino-indian border. 7.Diplomatic efforts must be consistently active in the fields like WTO,UN against China. 8.improve relationship with china's enemies and even try to create enemies. These are just a few points that must be initiated so that these people will know their limits and they must always feel the heat from us.
Reply | Forward
Breaking India by Abdul Ghani on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Thanks to China. It has made us to realise that our infight basing on religion,region,caste and language are dividing us. Our patriotism seems to have vanished. Elections are faught not on the basis of social issues but on the basis of sentimental issues which divides the society and the entire Nation.. Now atleast our leaderss should make the common man to realise that we are Indians first and all other things are next.Political parys based on reliion, region, languages should be barred. Then no force in the earth will succeed in dividing us.
Reply | Forward
How to deal with World by Ram on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Well simple, we need to talk from stregth. make India more and more strong, economically as well as intellectually. These stupid Chinese are chockroches. They will keep on surfacing. We have to start showing stregth starting from pakistan. Teach a strong lession. It will make whole World to start respecting. Otherwise, remeber respect is never begged. It is earned. The way Sonia brigade and disable MMS are acting, we are looking like a laughting stock all over World. No wounder, every Nation will count us as a looser.
Reply | Forward
China Vs India by ravi on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
GIVE UP. Chinese are way organized,disciplined and smart. Indians arrogant,loud mouthed,greedy,unorganized,gloating people.
Reply | Forward
What to do with China? by geesang on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Why doesn't Indian medoa for once do some factual analysis? In a modern world where no one is a permanent friend or foe none of the above on its own will work. Even to suggest diplomatically isolate a country which is expected to be economically at par with US is foolish. Multilateral engagement with China, expanding the economy vigorously, engaging China and the EU etc. are the only means for India to stay relevant.
China by Chackochan on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
For a long time ,we r taking chin's tantrums lying down.Now it is high time we react positively, enough is enough. Try to rake all the issues globally, Tibet, human rights violations, stop Chinese goods. They are playing the big brother game. Re orient our military strategy to contain china.
Reply | Forward
Get a handle on china by Raj on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Go full blast on all of the above without any delay.
Reply | Forward
by geetika on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
we should stop all trade/ties with China.Not allow any made in china products to enter our territory. Boycott chinese products.
Reply | Forward
How to handle India by Kathir Gaman on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Let us not ask ourselves how to handle china but let us first of all ask ourselves HOW TO HANDLE OUR OWN CORRUPTED POLITICIANS? corrupted gouvernments, and How to uptroot the corruption in all over India through a tough law. without stopping immediately the corruption and and corrupted politicias , you can't handle china where there is no corruption and if anyone is found in corruption he will be in life imprisonment or executed within 24 hours. But in India it is different and corruption is free everywhere. and china can buy a communist minded Indian from India for any amount of money!!!!! Only a better educational system, corruptless and strong economic India can handle china or Pakistan.
Reply | Forward
Let us break India into 20 states by kathir Gaman on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Yes It is quiet possible that , if China wants, due to our backward policy on education, corruption and we have still very old politicians running the gouvernment.countries like Nepals, Sikkim, should be hedlped by India to reduce chinese influences. communist parties in Indis should also give a hand to India but not to china. India can still succeed in keeping the whole Indian states under central gouvernment on codition that all these troubles states should be helped economically to satisfy the local poplations. It is time for us to stop giving aides to other foreign countries but let us first focus on our own states to improve their life as Indians. All the Indians states close to china and Pakistan should be hedlped impartially and make all these states to feel that are happiest citizens of India .
Reply | Forward
Tackling China by anand s devnani on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
How to deal with China requires careful thought. Bravado , slogans or chest thumping will not help.WE must deal with China the way it has dealt with USA ( remember in 1990's China needed certification each year from US President for trade etc. At present USA is dependent on China for credit- China holds trillions in USA govt debt instruments). WE need to work hard and be disciplined to strengthen our economy,defence both internal and external,scientific research and education systems and society at large (no internal divisions).Then think of tackling China . Probably it may not be necessary then. Germany and Sweden are few countries who are not members of UN security council etc but in their quiet way keep working hard and you don't hear any body making disparaging remarks about those countries.Hard work and discipline.
Reply | Forward
HAVE YOUR SAY: How to handle China by Viv on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
The best way to counter them is to improve our nuclear forces. Build more Nuc Subs, and improve the quality of our delivery systems. It will always be better if we depend on our own R&D, rather than depend on others.
Reply | Forward
by Joe Dias on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Boycotting Chinese products is a good idea but do we have an alternative cheap source? The only way to keep China in check is for India to be an economical global power, which is very much within its reach. India should have a higher foothold economically.
Reply | Forward
Barking dogs seldom bite - That's China by Appu on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
Ignore!The most powerful weapon.Barking dogs seldom bite.Let me tell you that China is already in pieces but just held by the force from the communist party. Come see the Chinese folks in North America and they will tell you all. It is a crumbling world, just that it starts from the center and moves outwards....so we cannot see it. Talk to these folks who have migrated to North America and they will tell you how much they despise their country. I have not come across a single soul yet, in the past 8 years here who is from India and says he hates India. That is the difference. Indians move out of India not because they hate India but they just want to make a few more bucks and live the American dream for a while, whereas Chinese move out because they hate the system to the core. See the demonstartions they have out here against their own country. IT is a "man eating man" scenario there. Being behind the iron curtains, the media is suppressed so as to contain all shitty stuff within. So guess what happens?? It will rot inside and eventually explode. No matter how much their warfare capabilities improve and so does their economy, India will always remain a force to RECKON with and history says that. The best "mantra" is to give them a BIG ignore.....and of course keep good ties with the USA...goes without saying. Trust me we need that at all times.
Reply | Forward
Let Everone know this ! by Proud Indian on 2009-08-12 00:00:00
a) Spread awareness among all Indians about China's evil intentions. Let our media ensure that every Indian must be aware of it. This should be debated in schools, colleges & all possible places so that people are mentally prepared to take on any such onslaught. Preparedness is the first line of defence. b) Talk to China & raise this issue on every forum. Show to the world what China is up to. c) Isolate our communists leaders who are the biggest supporters of China. If they don't listen, we may treat them as we treat anti-nationals. This will be a big blow to China.
Reply | Forward
Great India, dream will not come true by Raghav Lyon on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
India should be ready to improve herself from inside which includes castism and racism. Everyone has to take onus to work for India not for themselves, community, religion, state and if some space left then they think about country. Not to mention corruption has to be lower, I am not saying has to be removed but should be lowered. India should open manufacturing units in different segments and provide work to the unemployed population, it has to be controlled by semi-government organization. Once this is done then imporve the infrastructre in border to china, pakistan, bangladesh. After that stop import from China and use Tibet & Ughyr to weak china and look for new opportunity to weaken. Be a good ally with South korea, america, taiwan, japan and other countries who doesn't have good or strong relation with china, which mean very good foreign policy and diplomacy. Oh.. all above is just a dream because we Indians, proud to be indian, have water in bones. We always look for chinese product which are cheap, not mention chineese girls too. I guess I have said enough rest is upto we indian and our great indian politicians
Reply | Forward
China by Paul Alexander Gupta on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China is one country which has boundary problems with every neighbor. Koreans, Indians, Japanese, Vietnam, Thai, Koreans, Tibetians, Taiwan, and so on. China is a loosely conglomerate of many ethnic communities, many languages, dialects, people, religion, etc. They know that they have to keep pushing the people down, aggravate countries like India who have no foreign policy on how to handle it, bribe parties like CPM and CPI who can be their paid agents in India, play with human rights and they can keep doing it as long as American customers and others worldwide gets cheaper products from them. So how should India handle them? Easy...Have a comprehensive policy. We need to have military, politically, tactically handle them. They are emotionless. We cannot show emotions. We need to show them that India is a mature country which is not going to take their bullshit.
Reply | Forward
Indian Strategy by S.Venkat on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
1. Talk to China but be firm. 2. If Any of Our Neighbours Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan attempt to destabilise India-Please straightaway Demolish Them. 3. Put India on a Solid Economic Platform so that we have more Respect, Power, Clout on the International Arena. We have no choice on this issue. Lets do it.
Reply | Forward
How to deal with China by Thom Dank on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
1) Simple. Why India scared to attach Pakistan even though thousands die in India by the terrorists from Pakistan? They said they will use nuclear weapon to protect their territory even if India did not use it first. India should publically state we will use nuclear weapon if China takes an inch of Indian land. 2) India should claim Tibet and China occupied Kashmir back and support every independence movement in China. 3) Accelerate economic development so that we have enough money to modernize weapons and build infrastructure through out chinese border
Reply | Forward
Chinese threat by P K Agrawal on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Sir, With the exception of the first suggestion on aligning with US, none of the other suggestion would work to address Chinese design to break up India. This is real. Most importantly, Indians in general, and the mandarins in South block must see through the Chinese mentality. We have not learned our lessons from the war in 1962 and continued incursions by Chinese in to Indian territory. Unfortunately, Indian politicians and adminsitration has no long-term vision and committment on national security and integrity. Soft paddling with China does not work. They only understand the language of force. we must deal with chinese from the position of strength. External threats can not be handles if we are weak internally. We have not taken any steps for integration of eastern states and Kashmir in to the mainstream. Have free flow of population from other parts of India into these states, allow population from other parts of India to settle in kashmir, handle separatist forces with iron hand (just as the Chinese do) and take national security threats seriously. Only then the external threats can be handled and addressed successfully. Take note that other nations only understand the language of strength. We are too timid and get bullied by everyone. serwe have been soft on internal security threats from maoists and other separatists. , in fri c.
Reply | Forward
Make a reality study. by Indian on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China has to study the history again & again. Budhism, a religion that is still like hinduism and part / heart & soul of hinduism, is there in China for more than 2000 years. Chinese are not the first ones to learn / start martial arts in the world, but India is. Maha Bodhi, an Indian budhist monk taught martial arts to China and the Shaolin temple was built by the Chinese kings for this monk to teach the chinese in Hennan province. There are many temples, sculptures, artifacts are the gifts of these religious / cultural venture in to this land. Chinese music & arts has quintessentially Indian influence. And the knowledge of science, maths, astronomy & astrology etc are part / essence of Indian vedas, epics, puranas & saints contributed these and many more in Sanskrit language. Yoga, Ayurveda & Kamasutra are not gimmicks and practiced in India & world over. The spirituality, attainment & human life and death were elaborately discussed in these knowledge banks. The words, explanations of aeroplane, sound tracing arrows, the deadly weapons like Brahmastra, the culturing of human embryos outside the body (what has been done to 101 Kauravas in Mahabharatha), leaving one's body and entering of others body by the soul, vidyut (electricity) etc. can be found in Sanskrit literature which has been forgotten in India, but the modern world science have found these things practically. So these knowledge that India had, cannot be said just as fictions. So if China wants to take on India by any dubious methods or spreading misgivings, it will face utter failure. World has to think why India practicing caste system or discrimination in its soil & against its own people. For thousands of years India was facing aggression, invasions for being too good and having ancient knowledge and vast wealth. The enmity and dividing & snatching away mentality of those has divided this country. India is waking up to its past and it will one day rule the world with its knowledge & wisdom as much as in the history by its natural & greatest of great strength, but without force, or aggression and political control. World has forgotten this and external world tried to twist the facts by going against the reality. Let the truth behold the future. Falsification will fail and bring shame when the truth is out. India has to be patient and stand up to the occasions against such attempts.
Reply | Forward
Go by truth. by Indian on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
China has to study the history again & again. Budhism, a religion that is still like hinduism and part / heart & soul of hinduism, is there in China for more than 2000 years. Chinese are not the first ones to learn / start martial arts, but India is. Maha Bodhi, an Indian budhist monk taught martial arts to China and the Shaolin temple was built by the Chinese kings for this monk to teach the chinese in Hennan province. There are many temples, sculptures, artifacts are the gifts of these religious / cultural venture in to this land. Chinese music & arts has quintessentially Indian influence. And the knowledge of science, maths, astronomy & astrology etc are part / essence of Indian vedas, epics, puranas & saints contributed these and many more in Sanskrit language. Yoga, Ayurveda & Kamasutra are not gimmicks and practiced in India & world over. The spirituality, attainment & human life and death were elaborately discussed in these knowledge banks. The words, explanations of aeroplane, sound tracing arrows, the deadly weapons like Brahmastra, the culturing of human embryos outside the body (what has been done to 101 Kauravas in Mahabharatha), leaving one's body and entering of others body by the soul, vidyut (electricity) etc. can be found in Sanskrit literature which has been forgotten in India, but the modern world science have found these things practically. So these knowledge that India had, cannot be said just as fictions. So if China wants to take on India by any dubious methods or spreading misgivings, it will face utter failure. World has to think why India practicing caste system or discrimination in its soil & against its own people. For thousands of years India was facing aggression, invasions for being too good and having ancient knowledge and vast wealth. The enmity and dividing & snatching away mentality of those has divided this country. India is waking up to its past and it will one day rule the world with its knowledge & wisdom as much as in the history by its natural & greatest of great strength, but without force, or aggression and political control. World has forgotten this and external world tried to twist the facts by going against the reality. Let the truth behold the future. Falsification will fail and bring shame when the truth is out. India has to be patient and stand up to the occasions against such attempts.
Reply | Forward
Our Indian race by Ram on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
India is way too deferential towards China. India MUST emulate China, act for act, in the way it treats India. With contempt. In addtion, all Indic peoples in Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka need to be reminded that they are not Han Chinese but of Indo-Asian racial heritage. None of us would fare well in an Asia dominated by Han Chinese mongols and it up to us to protect our South Asian homeland and our children and grandchildren. We cannot rely on anyone else. India needs to take a page from Israel in defending its own race.
Reply | Forward
Open discussion. by Satisha on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Start an India specific web that is maintained with government official views and statements as well as supported by a publishing house with public / netizens views. With a reality based propagation of truth and facts, make this web available through out the world and viewed by all the people / concerned governments' officials in those countries. A nation's strength lies in its ability to show the truth against false propaganda and make these propagandists shut their mouth when falsifying. Invite those prominent people /netizens from both India and China for open discussion and talks. Government to government talks will remain in secrets, but the open views will have great impact as it won't allow for lies.
Reply | Forward
handling china by ajaybali on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
best strategy is to be on constant vigil ,stay united at all cost ,be an Indian first and Indian last ,keep on the lines of communication open with china ,but do not compromise on national integrity . China is an economic giant ,economic ties with china are benefecial to India , it will be better for India to align itself with friendly countries like Japan USA and vietnam ,wait for favourable time ,which is bound to come ,democracy in china is going to come eventually ,promote the development of a democratic china not a communist china ,keep the lines of communication open with taiwan ,tibet and ugers
Reply | Forward
How to handle China? by Raj on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
i. Enemy's enymy is my friend ... Did I hear Taiwan/Tibet my friend .. ii. Kick CPM party out of India : send them to China instead ... iii. Teach our next generation to love n care our own country right after parents .. iv. Hit where it hearts !! Ban chinese good or impose heavy duty .. v. Play with your enemies week point : be sympathetic to Tibetans, Uyghur, non existing human rights in China .. vi. Do we really have foreign policy ? If not may we see some ( efective ones !! ) vii. Have strong policies ( which I doubt considering all these CHIMPs in the business of pilitics ) to effective improve our country interms of infrustructure and business inflows ..
Reply | Forward
China my foot by dwaraka on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
When we have those politicians who are worse than the talibs or the terrorists group this is bound to happen. So far the public has written the response what about the policitians dont they read news paper. First let us cut them into 30 pieces each and then go behind china.
Reply | Forward
Break China in to 1000 pieces by auplainsman on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Diplomatically isolating China is impossible for India right now. The best way to tackle a bull is to tackle it by it horns. We should support freedom struggle of the Tibetan people by supplying them with arms and ammunition as well as help the separatist Uygurs in Xinjiang the same way also establish full diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Block all goods that are being imported from China and tarnish their reputation by supplying bad products to the rest of the world as made in China (Chinese are doing this to us already, so this is fair). India has ignored China long enough, we need a comprehensive strategy to reclaim all areas that were lost to China up to McMohan line. Arrogant Chinese should be given a taste of their own medicine. India should help break china in to 1000 pieces which would be better not only for Asia but the entire world.
Reply | Forward
Break China in to 1000 pieces by auplainsman on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Diplomatically isolating China is impossible for India right now. The best way to tackle a bull is to tackle it by it horns. We should support freedom struggle of the Tibetan people by supplying them with arms and ammunition as well as help the separatist Uygurs in Xinjiang the same way also establish full diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Block all goods that are being imported from China and tarnish their reputation by supplying bad products to the rest of the world as made in China (Chinese are doing this to us already, so this is fair). India has ignored China long enough, we need a comprehensive strategy to reclaim all areas that were lost to China up to McMohan line. Arrogant Chinese should be given a taste of their own medicine. India should help break china in to 1000 pieces which would be better not only for Asia but the entire world.
Reply | Forward
HAVE YOUR SAY: How to handle China? by meher on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
There is no doubt that China has expansionist designs and India has to be very careful while dealing with China.Our late prime minister Jawahar Lal Nehru made the mistake of believig in China's glib talk and suffered humiliating defeat in 1962.That should be enough to India to learn its lesson.Although India is much better prepared to defend itself,but there should be no copmlacency and we must remain on guard all the time.
Reply | Forward
CHINA by AJ on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Do all the above. Most importantly stop accepting Tibet as part of China. Stir trouble in Xinkiang province. Kick the Maoists out of Nepal who are stooges of China working to damage Indo-Nepal ties forever. Problem is of course our pusillanimous polity which is well and alive as can be gauged from PM's statements in Egypt.
Reply | Forward
How to handle China? by VasuDev on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
None of 1~6 options u listed will work. India, if tried on those options it will set further low its prestige. US has $15 Trillion debt to China. US itself may later sell California to China. US don't help. Best option to deter Chian interests- Support Taiwan Independece, India should voice Taiwan Independence in UN.
Reply | Forward
China by karamirch on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Position nuclear ICBMs towards Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong (like what Russia did in Cuba). China will do the same to us but at least they will know we mean business. Fester problems in NW China, Tibet and other non-Han regions. There are many locals who would do that for money as regional China is very very poor. Keep their administration and army busy with internal squabbles
Reply | Forward
by ARUN on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
INDIA MUST DEVELOPE H-BOMB ASAP TO COUNTER CHINA AND THE TERRORIST STATE PAKISTAN.JAI HIND.ALWAYS.
Reply | Forward
China by Ashok Bhagat on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
All these suggestion are OK, but they are all palliative. The point is that we have to be strong, united and corruption free. That with some smart leadership we will be just fine with or without those 6 items.
Reply | Forward
by aubrey bout on 2009-08-11 00:00:00
Do not trust the chinese. We must be self sufficient. India must forget to follow blindly chinese foriegn policy. We should do what is in our interest and not go with china just to please them. This policy creates a kind of weakness on our part.
Reply | Forward
Saturday, July 18, 2009
Should India talk to Pakistan ?
What’s the point in talking to Pakistan?...Tavleen Singh
Why doesn’t the US hold a dialogue with Osama?Obama needs some more lessons in Islam
India will not talk to Pakistan as long as its government continues to nurture and shield those who attack India. Why is it so hard for us to say this? Why is it so hard for us to tell the visiting American Secretary of State that it is not possible to speak to people who talk about fighting against Islamist terrorism but openly support an Islamist reptile like Hafiz Mohammed Sayeed. Pakistan’s war against its jihadis is mercenary and fraudulent. It is being fought to get that $1.5 billion that the American government has promised to give it and for no other reason.
Nothing makes this clearer than the release of the repulsive Sayeed the day before our Prime Minister was due to meet the Prime Minister of Pakistan in Egypt last week. It should have been at this point that Dr Manmohan Singh announced his inability to have even two minutes of conversation with Mr Yousaf Raza Geelani but he chose not to. He sat meekly through a long meeting with the Pakistani Prime Minister and then acquiesced to a joint statement that implied that India was supporting terrorism in Balochistan.
Ever since the attack on Mumbai I have been hearing from Pakistani friends a half-hearted justification for Mumbai on the grounds that ‘you also are doing things in Balochistan’. Whenever I have heard this, I have pointed out that if India had the ability to get up to some serious subversive activity in Pakistan, we would be decimating Islamists, not promoting their activities. Any fool should be able to see that it is in India’s interests for the Pakistani state (such as it is) to remain in control of its nuclear weapons and not let them slip into the hands of bearded fanatics bred on a hatred of ‘Hindu India’.
We would help the Pakistan government fight the Islamists if we could be sure that the fight was sincere. It cannot be if the Pakistani government finds it so hard to keep the founder of the Lashkar-e-Toiba in jail. The Lashkar was created with the sole purpose of promoting jihadi terrorism. That makes it a terrorist organisation and it makes its founder a terrorist. What more proof is needed to arrest Sayeed?
This is what I would like to have heard our Prime Minister say after the meeting in Sharm-ul-Sheikh. Instead he came up with that puzzling distinction between talking and dialogue. There will be talks between India and Pakistan but no dialogue. So will we be talking to the walls?
Our problem with Pakistan is no longer Kashmir. That movement for ‘azaadi’ was subsumed long years ago by the worldwide jihad and nothing proved this more definitely than the attack on Mumbai. This is why that attack remains so important. There have been other terrorist attacks on Indian soil but what happened in Mumbai was not just another Islamist terrorist attack, it was an act of war. There is evidence that the men who were guiding Kasab and his pals were based in Pakistan and there is evidence that some of them were serving officers in the Pakistani Army. Nobody who has heard the chilling conversations between the terrorists and their Pakistani masters can forget the cold-blooded evil of every instruction. Now stand them up and shoot them in the back of their heads. Kill as many people as you can.
The men who gave these instructions are still alive and free in Pakistan and there is no indication that the Pakistani government is doing anything to bring them to justice.
If we go ahead with ‘talks’, then this is the only thing we need to talk to Pakistan about. Where are these men? Who are they? Is it not true that the attack was planned and executed by the Lashkar-e-Toiba? Is this ghastly organisation being protected only because it is a division of the Pakistani Army?
Unless we get some answers, there is not the faintest possibility of the peace process moving forwards. We cannot talk about Kashmir because there is no point in talking about it when the attack on Mumbai makes it so abundantly obvious that the objective of the jihad is not to win Kashmir but to destroy India. While Pakistan has remained stuck in an Islamic time warp, India has moved on and embraced modernity and the changing realities of a rapidly changing world. We have our problems but they are 21st century problems not problems mired in 7th century Arabia. It is this changed India that Pakistan cannot deal with and this is why the jihad, this is why the attack on Mumbai and this is why there is no point in talking to Pakistan until it provides us with some evidence that it too wants to change.
Why doesn’t the US hold a dialogue with Osama?Obama needs some more lessons in Islam
India will not talk to Pakistan as long as its government continues to nurture and shield those who attack India. Why is it so hard for us to say this? Why is it so hard for us to tell the visiting American Secretary of State that it is not possible to speak to people who talk about fighting against Islamist terrorism but openly support an Islamist reptile like Hafiz Mohammed Sayeed. Pakistan’s war against its jihadis is mercenary and fraudulent. It is being fought to get that $1.5 billion that the American government has promised to give it and for no other reason.
Nothing makes this clearer than the release of the repulsive Sayeed the day before our Prime Minister was due to meet the Prime Minister of Pakistan in Egypt last week. It should have been at this point that Dr Manmohan Singh announced his inability to have even two minutes of conversation with Mr Yousaf Raza Geelani but he chose not to. He sat meekly through a long meeting with the Pakistani Prime Minister and then acquiesced to a joint statement that implied that India was supporting terrorism in Balochistan.
Ever since the attack on Mumbai I have been hearing from Pakistani friends a half-hearted justification for Mumbai on the grounds that ‘you also are doing things in Balochistan’. Whenever I have heard this, I have pointed out that if India had the ability to get up to some serious subversive activity in Pakistan, we would be decimating Islamists, not promoting their activities. Any fool should be able to see that it is in India’s interests for the Pakistani state (such as it is) to remain in control of its nuclear weapons and not let them slip into the hands of bearded fanatics bred on a hatred of ‘Hindu India’.
We would help the Pakistan government fight the Islamists if we could be sure that the fight was sincere. It cannot be if the Pakistani government finds it so hard to keep the founder of the Lashkar-e-Toiba in jail. The Lashkar was created with the sole purpose of promoting jihadi terrorism. That makes it a terrorist organisation and it makes its founder a terrorist. What more proof is needed to arrest Sayeed?
This is what I would like to have heard our Prime Minister say after the meeting in Sharm-ul-Sheikh. Instead he came up with that puzzling distinction between talking and dialogue. There will be talks between India and Pakistan but no dialogue. So will we be talking to the walls?
Our problem with Pakistan is no longer Kashmir. That movement for ‘azaadi’ was subsumed long years ago by the worldwide jihad and nothing proved this more definitely than the attack on Mumbai. This is why that attack remains so important. There have been other terrorist attacks on Indian soil but what happened in Mumbai was not just another Islamist terrorist attack, it was an act of war. There is evidence that the men who were guiding Kasab and his pals were based in Pakistan and there is evidence that some of them were serving officers in the Pakistani Army. Nobody who has heard the chilling conversations between the terrorists and their Pakistani masters can forget the cold-blooded evil of every instruction. Now stand them up and shoot them in the back of their heads. Kill as many people as you can.
The men who gave these instructions are still alive and free in Pakistan and there is no indication that the Pakistani government is doing anything to bring them to justice.
If we go ahead with ‘talks’, then this is the only thing we need to talk to Pakistan about. Where are these men? Who are they? Is it not true that the attack was planned and executed by the Lashkar-e-Toiba? Is this ghastly organisation being protected only because it is a division of the Pakistani Army?
Unless we get some answers, there is not the faintest possibility of the peace process moving forwards. We cannot talk about Kashmir because there is no point in talking about it when the attack on Mumbai makes it so abundantly obvious that the objective of the jihad is not to win Kashmir but to destroy India. While Pakistan has remained stuck in an Islamic time warp, India has moved on and embraced modernity and the changing realities of a rapidly changing world. We have our problems but they are 21st century problems not problems mired in 7th century Arabia. It is this changed India that Pakistan cannot deal with and this is why the jihad, this is why the attack on Mumbai and this is why there is no point in talking to Pakistan until it provides us with some evidence that it too wants to change.
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Public Platform : India's Challenges
1.
All Editors' Selections » EDITORS' SELECTIONS (what's this?)
May 19, 2009 7:03 am
Link
Several comments regarding your editorial on what India should do in regards to Pakistan. You are right, India showed remarkable restraint in not attacking Pakistan after the Mumbai attack. Especially since the Indian government believes that elements of the Pakistani army/intelligence were involved. In addition, your paper reported sources in the US intelligence organization that Pakistan's ISI was involved in the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul that killed two senior Indian officials.
Even if US aid is not used directly to build Pakistani nukes, money is fungible, and the resources freed up by the aid will be used by the Pakistani's to build nukes.
So to ask India to unilaterally stop developing additional nuclear material and to go into arms control talks with Pakistan and China is unrealistic. Do you really think that China wants to have arms control discussions? China is a major security concern for India and the US. India's military calculus is more centered on China than Pakistan. Your proposal is a non-starter.
As far as Kashmir is concerned, India would have agreed to converting the current Line of Control as the International border. That is the only pragmatic solution. There are several precedents to this. Bengal was divided between India and East Pakistan. Punjab was divided between India and West Pakistan and Pashtunistan was divided by the Durand line. Pakistani leaders have come close to accepting such a deal in the past but unfortunately have been overtaken by events in their own country before consummating the deal.
The reason that there is a strong presence of the Indian army near the Pakistani border is to prevent infiltration by terrorists from Pakistan. Often under cover fire from the Pakistani army. Every week there are reports in the Indian press of pitched battles as the Indian forces try and stop the terrorists from entering India. Do you really think that any Indian government can order its military to withdraw from the border while terrorists are entering on a regular basis.
The only way the US Af-Pak strategy will work is if the ruling elite in Pakistan (i.e. the Army ) finally realize that it is not in their best interests to keep India as the bogeyman. Until now, the demonizing of India has allowed the Pakistani army to control Pakistan. Like some one correctly said, Most countries have an army while in Pakistan the army has a country. That calculus will have to change for the Pakistani elite. India getting stronger v.vs. Pakistan will help that cause not the other way around as your editorial suggests.
— Sanjiv, San Jose, CA
Recommend Recommended by 43 Readers
2.
All Editors' Selections » EDITORS' SELECTIONS (what's this?)
May 19, 2009 7:09 am
Link
It is commendable to exhort India to show regional leadership because of the stable mandate. However - Pakistan's nuclear activities have little correlation to whether India shows leadership or not. Just because its a next door neighbor does not make India a big brother to Pakistan. Pakistan's big brother has always been the United States - and her nuclear activities and stability are directly correlated to US policies and funding. In fact, many of the suggestions made in this editorial have already been pursued ad nauseum by India with different Pakistani regimes - yielding very limited results. Kashmir has had democratically elected government for quite a while now. Asking India to "resolve" the Kashmir issue without specifying what the resolution is expected in this editorial makes it a very weak argument. India has lots of other challenges besides Pakistan that could have been addressed in this editorial. Trust me - Pakistan's nuclear activities were hardly in the Indian voter's mind when they were selecting one party over another.
Both the title and contents of this editorial are misleading. But I agree that the concern is genuine.
If there's a key to changing things in Pakistan one way or the other, it lies with the United States - and that mandate was given not last week - but on November 4th, 2008. I hope we see a game changer there.
— Susmit, PA
Recommend Recommended by 30 Readers
3.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You are not making any practical sense when you come up with these kinds of editorials. India has two main challenges..reducing poverty and keeping itself safe from the insanity around it. Arms control talks with Pakistan and China? Where's the US in all of this? India has to make Pakistan happy over Kashmir so Pakistan can do the US bidding? Stop unilaterally refining nuclear fuel when its surrounded by China and Pakistan, two of the worlds biggest proliferators?
Come one guys. Get a modicum of common sense before you come up with this kind of stuff. Its laughable.
— gr, Glenview, Il
Recommend Recommended by 44 Readers
4.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
History is testament to the fact that the United States has been on the wrong, short-sighted, self-serving path when it comes to the subcontinent. As a result, Pakistan is now a pathethic caricature of a client state. Its leaders have been reduced to barricading themselves from the extremists in their palaces whilst at home and shamelessly begging for unaccounted aid when abroad. India has taken a different path and must continue on it. Relationship with the United States is important but comes at a great cost. India must do what is in its own best interests, develop its own foreign relationships and defend its own self interests. It can not, and must not, reduce itself to being a pawn on a global chessboard as its neighbor has.
— Nuz2Me, Utah
Recommend Recommended by 26 Readers
5.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Does India really need advice from the editors at the New York Times ? For that matter, do they need advice from anyone in the west?
From what I read, Indians still believe in hard work, free markets and capitalism. Maybe we should be taking advice from them.
— m. jones, nm
Recommend Recommended by 28 Readers
6.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You guys mess up with every one and others have to take responsibility. You should probably stop being selfish and develop a human heart.
— Suresh, India
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
7.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
As long as this idea is being shoved down Pakistan's throat that India is the dominant power and Pakistan needs to submit to their leadership in the region, nothing can be resolved.
You talk about India's "constructive" role in Afghanistan. For Pakistan it is very suspicious why India being a country with no cultural or geographic affinity with Afghanistan is being allowed to have a dominant role there. On the other hand Pakistan which has a 2200 km long border with that country and a significant population which has cultural affinity with Afghanistan is being used with no regard to its own strategic interests.
I think the idea is very clear here. Pakistan is being encircled to fall in line with India's regional leadership role with the ultimate objective of countering China. The problem with the plan is that Pakistan is getting nothing in return and it is being left to India's goodwill to solve all mutual disputes. This kind of plan can easily backfire because although Pakistan is smaller than India, it is not insignificant.
I think it would behove the US to try and deal with Pakistan seperately from India in a way that takes into account Pakistan's interests also. That is the only way of dealing with this situation in fair manner.
— SAM, CA
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
8.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
How can you deal with a state based on religion which preaches hatred of other religions? Until Pakistan gives up it's religious bigotry, accepts both pluralism and democracy, there is no hope for Pakistan. India might as well ask "Am I brother's keeper?"
— V.R.Anil Kumar, Mysore, India
Recommend Recommended by 23 Readers
9.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Pakistan is only sane to fear India. With India greatly expanding its conventional as well as nuclear capabilities, build more nuclear bombs is the only way Pakistan can balance India off. In terms of military buildup, there is no significant difference between India and Pakistan. Both are very poor countries in terms of living standard of their people, but both are spending disproportionally on arms. They created real fear and contempt toward each other, because they let pride get in the way and can not master pragmatism. India was colonized by the British for a long time, that damaged their self-confidence. India need a bold leader to turn their national psyche around, but sadly, we have not seen one in the past 50 years.
As for Pakistan, India and China to get together to negotiate arms control. This is just wishful thinking. The U.S. is directly and indirectly arming India as part of "League of Democracy" to contain China; China is arming Pakistan directly and indirectly as a way to squeeze India. Those relationship are deeply entangled. Without a grand bargain that also involve the shape of U.S.-China relations, south Asia will not see true tranquility in a long time to come.
— horsham, north carolina
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
10.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Asking India to negotiate with Pakistan is like asking Israel to negotiate with Iran - we don't hear that from you a lot, do we? Did United States negotiate with Iraq or Al Queda? Pakistan's nukes have only one purpose - to destroy Hindu civilization when it goes down.
— TruthPrevails, Mumbai, India
Recommend Recommended by 30 Readers
11.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
It is a fantasy to think a parliamentary-elected govt. could take a leadership role. Each member of the parliament is loyal to its special interests and.or ethnic group. Parliament-elected govts. are weak. They are the whips that the U.S. and more stable dictatorships like Iran crack.
— Lee Walker, Oakland, CA
Recommend Recommended by 4 Readers
12.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Yeah. Right. You keep pumping billions of dollars, and selling fighter jets to a crazed Muslim country with no history of democracy or even stability; that has nukes it cannot or barely control; cannot effectively control its own regions; whose army intelligence apparatus is autonomous of the government --
and then not just advocate India to show restraint -- which by the way it shows in ample measure, but to complain that it has not done enough?!!
What hutzpah!
— krish, SF Bay Area, CA
Recommend Recommended by 41 Readers
13.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You are right - it is high time India solve the Kashmir issue by forcing Pakistan to vacate part of Kashmir it illegally grabbed in 1948. Pakistan can't control its own territory, how can it govern the land it illegally grabbed? India should take back its own country and do a better job than Pakistan.
Also to solve problem of terrorism, India should pull another Bangladesh on Pakistan. US has pampered and spoilt Pakistan for a long time and India had to bear the brunt of terrorism eminating from Pakistan. Even now US is following the same misguided policies. So let US wollow in its own ignorance and wishful thinking. By breaking Pakistan in four countries and spliting the army, the problem of terrorism will be solved once and for all.
— umok, WA
Recommend Recommended by 12 Readers
14.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Article:"Trying to keep up to 100 bombs from extremists is hard enough"
Every reader should remember the there were thousands of nuclear bombs in the hands of extremists for eight years, starting January 20th, 2001. Recall all the talk about from that administration about "needing" to use nuclear bombs as bunker-busters in Iraq. We almost became the third nation to use nuclear weapons, as well as the first and second such nation.
— Ken Belcher, Chicago
Recommend Recommended by 9 Readers
15.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
I agree. India must tell Pakistan that it has no intention to conquer or de-stabilize Pakistan. As widely felt in India, a vibrant and secular Pakistan is good for India as well. As an ordinary Indian citizen, I would want Pakistan to prosper on all fronts and develop tolerance for people of other faiths. If it happens, India will be at peace as well. With China, India competes in economic activity. It should not have any aspiration to counter China militarily. Because if it does, it would drain its already scarce resources which it should deploy in development and welfare of its people.
India must sign NPT. One nuclear bomb or 100 would not give security enough to any nation. In a nuclear war nobody wins. She should not support any nation that has nuclear ambitions and if possible destroy all its nuclear weapons. Even if Pakistan nukes India, nuking Pakistan will be act of revenge and destruction of common man, and what would we have achieved in the end?I am not saying do not protect yourself. But nuclear weapons are no means to achieve security. Besides, there won't be any invasion at nation's level anymore. All wars currently are low intensity conflicts. So we don't need nuclear weapons.
Kashmir can be made independent if Kashmiris of all faiths are part of it and want independence. Just Muslims and not Pandits desiring so, would not enable any peace process to reach its end. Pakistan should also ask for an inclusive Kashmir that has Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus unlike herself, where ethnic cleansing has been going on for the past 60 years.
Finally, India should control its extreme right. We were always a peace loving and a spiritual nation. Let us retain that image and move towards economic prosperity.
— dram48, Bangalore, India
Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers
16.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
This is Washington's prescription for India for Washington's own good. This is the line which Obama administration would expect India to toe. Whether these policy reccomendations are in India's interests needs to be debated. Washington has been seen as a Pakistani crony in India and the perception there is that Washington has ignored all of Pakistan's past sins, co-habited with China and spawned regional terrorism. The very fact that Washington has been unable to curb Pakistan's nuclear programme is reason enough to believe that the Obama administration is failing to use its leverage in Pakistan and Afghanistan. America cannot afford an indifferent India which is also assidously being courted by the Chinese too. Ignoring India may just mean that the powershift to China may happen a lot sooner.
— James Baker, Toronto, Canada
Recommend Recommended by 21 Readers
17.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Maybe the US should lead the way by cutting off billions of dollars of its own taxpayers dollars sent as aid to Pakistan that is ultimately used to fund terrorist training camps and purchase nuclear weapons. An American professor I know still finds the ignorance of US representatives in Pakistan about the perils of giving billions of dollars to any hand that is stretched out, unbelievable. He was called in by the USAID head in Islamabad to give a briefing about what to do with the cash pile that organization was sitting on. She had no idea what was going on in the country and was giving away funds to anyone who approached her. Maybe you should send people who have some knowledge about the ground realities there.
— Skasster, India
Recommend Recommended by 14 Readers
18.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
The possibility of good India-Pakistan relationship is far from being practical! Past experiences have shown that Pakistan government (or to be precise, Pakistani military!) can't be trusted! It is just that they thrive on propagating a sense of hatred towards their secular neighbour.So the government in India can do absolutely nothing about it!( But they won't admit it!!)
— ranjan, india
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
19.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
While the spirit of the article is acceptable, the tone leaves a lot desired. Pakistan gets billions of dollars in military aid while India gets sermons. What kind of logic is this?
Yes Pakistani citizens and civil society is suffering and that has to change. Also India and Pakistan can live together with harmony as there are many concerns that are common to both countries. Pakistan has a huge responsibility in making this happen. How come the economy of Pakistan is in doldrums yet they find resources to expand their nuclear arsenal and for what purpose? In the name of assisting Pakistan in fighting Taliban, looks like US creating another Frankenstein's monster in South Asia. US should not absolve itself of its moral responsibility in the damage it is causing by continuously pouring money into Pakistan without demanding and ensuring accountability.
Looks like even Obama is also gradually subscribing to the myopic approach that US embraced for the last four decades vis-a-vis India and Pakistan. India needs no sympathy from US. It needs US to be fair and firm in its dealings with Pakistan and India. Looks like this is not going to happen
— Vish, UK
Recommend Recommended by 21 Readers
20.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
There is nothing India can do in Pakistan. They are a lot that grew up on poison fed daily that "Hindu" India is going to get them eventhough is Pakistan that started three wars. Pakistan can only validate its existence by proving that a multicultural multireligious India is not feasible. And there are its partners..us and China pumping billions and arming them to the teeth despite knowing that they help Al Qaeda and Taliban will be nourished.
Funny reading this editorial-- our government is contemplating billions more aid, and at the same time asking that India refrain! Why? So that the "freedom fighters" won't send another plane to New York? Are Indian lives cheap?
Throughout history, we seem to have sided with despots and dictators. When will we change? If you believe democracy is a good thing, then there are over a billion people that voted peacefully just now. How about a security council seat for India that is a 6th of humanity?
How about partnering with India in fixing up Pakistan and Afghanistan? America had always dared to take bold steps throughout history when compelled with moral problems. Let us get it done!
— Veetri, Phoenix, AZ
Recommend Recommended by 25 Readers
21.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
India's reelection of the government of Manmohan Singh, one of the world's most capable and prudent heads of government, is heartening. The fact that he is only the second Indian leader since independence to be reelected after serving a full term suggests that India may indeed be entering a phase of stable growth. That should appeal to those investing in the subcontinent’s future, and comfort those, like the United States, who are increasingly reliant on it as an ally. Additionally, the success of this exercise in democracy at such a large scale also resonates in countries like China, who have resolutely contended that such a system cannot work in nations of such complexity and scope.
To continue the discussion, please visit www.twitter.com/halwoods
— Hal Woods, Chicago, IL
Recommend Recommended by 18 Readers
22.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
It is past time the US understood its predicament in Pakistan. You can neither stop nor continue feeding the beast that controls Pakistan - its army. The former risks implosion of the country and the latter explosions worldwide. Sorry, India cannot help you out of this mess. You cannot lay the blame for Pakistan buying nukes out of US aid for development or fighting terrorism on India. Pakistan does not need more nukes to avoid the threat of India. Pakistani army needs them to scare the US into parting with its money, which will be used to perpetuate the feudal stranglehold over ordinary Pakistanis. Honestly, does anyone still believe that India seeks any of the extremist-ridden Pakistani territory?
Please learn not to mollycoddle dictatorships for short term gains next time you are revisiting policy. Tutorial one: Start with Saudi Arabia which I heard builds most Madrassas in Pakistan.
— SK, NY
Recommend Recommended by 28 Readers
23.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Expecting India to play a role in stabilizing Pakistan in any manner, let alone through progress on Kashmir seems rather naive! Progress towards any solution on Kashmir is likely to cause serious internal problems for even a stable government in Pakistan, let alone the current lame-duck administration of Mr. Zardari. It's also important to understand that with most of India's neighbors, anti-India rhetoric and posturing is de rigeur for everybody in the political process - and more so in the case of Pakistan. Any attempt by India to get involved in "stabilizing" Pakistan would probably prove counter productive.
On a related note, the US Administration and policy wonks need to get real about the fundamental nature of the Pakistani State. 60 years of an Islamist foundational doctrine, virulent anti-Indianism, and 30 years of (american-sponsored) jihadism have given these ideologies deep roots in every facet of the state, and the transition that is being expected of them today requires that these very roots be torn from the ground.
The recent confrontation with the Taliban in Swat constitutes the first credible signal from the State of its willingness to transform itself and the US needs to hold the Pak Govt to this course.
The Indian Govt would be happy to move on Kashmir (as back channel negotiations on the subject with Musharraf were testament to), but the Pakistanis must necessarily abnegate recourse to terrorist proxies as instruments of state policy, and extradite known terrorist offenders currently claiming sanctuary there under the patronage of the intelligence services, before any Indian govt could reasonably reengage in a dialogue.
— Sreeram, Bangalore
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
24.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
This article shows naivete in discussing the region.
1. "Demand assurances" from pakistan? Who from, precisely? The President, who controls nothing? Or the Army, which took $10 Billion in the past to further their own interests? "Assurances" from any Pakistani institution means nothing.
2. "Persuade" Burma's regime? Are you aware that China and India are in competition for influence there, and that China is far ahead? That most of North Eastern Burma is full of chinese, and chinese currency is freely used there? India's interest in Burma are based on realpolitik vs China not on what the rest of the world wants vis a vis democracy etc.
— jetlagged, Northern Virginia
Recommend Recommended by 8 Readers
25.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Oh dear. This editorial needs a translator well-versed in imperialese. I'll give some of it a go.
"[A]rguably the most dangerous country on earth" means "Oops, we gave billions to a country to help it oppress its own people, and now this seems to no longer work it turns out they also spent much of it on nukes instead of bombing villages. Whatever shall we do? Note: get out of other peoples' business is not a valid answer."
"Resolving issues over Kashmir" means "India and Pakistan should get their act together - but whatever you do, don't take the wishes of the people of Kashmir into account. That would set a bad precedent."
"India must assume its responsibilities" means "We need a local policeman for the Empire. India has just been volunteered."
— Christian Haesemeyer, Los Angeles
26.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
India should not deal with a state which has shown little regard to its citizen's basic rights to education and social empowerment. Washington's advice on engaging the leader of Pakistan should be voiced to the country which remains its strongest ally both economically and in terms of providing military hardware - China.
— Nitin, Wellington
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
27.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Kashmir problem will be solved in no time if the US stops giving military aid to Pakistan. Pakistani governments of both civilian and military varieties are experts in fooling US into thinking that Pakistan is a US ally in whatever the US wants to accomplish in the region - a base fro US operations against USSR, a conduit for arms to fight Soviets or holding the line against Al Queda. Whatever the US policy, the army ends up with more weapons and gets enriched and to maintain it's position the army tells the Pakistani population that India is the enemy.
— Lordknow, Palo Alo, CA
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
28.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
The editorial indeed makes some valid points about India’s rightful regional role, yet it overlooks a major barrier. And that is the Pakistan’s army and ISI who benefits immensely by having India as a perpetual enemy. Their constant, and often unjustified, blackmail of the Pakistan’s populace by creating the specter of India’s unbridled aggression gives them justification for fleecing the Pakistan’s national budget. Thus any overtures by India, except for delivering the Kashmir on a silver plater, will not placate the two institutions that have held their own country, and now the world, hostage. And even after such an overture, given their record there is no guarantee that the Pakistan army and ISI will not find any reason not to continue the enmity. In fact, it may embolden these two institutions, just as making concessions to Taliban in Swat valley gave the Taliban encouragement to reach for more. Moreover, for the last 20 years, the Pakistan army and ISI have come to believe that the western nations and the US need the Pakistan army badly enough to let them extract their pound of flesh and still get away with much more. Amassing nuclear weapons while receiving billions of dollars from the US to allegedly fight a war on terror is an excellent example Pakistan army’s strategy. Twisting India’s arms to make concessions is no guarantee that the game that is being played for the last 20 years will change. Negotiating arms treaty to include China is a good suggestions but it should be separated from the India’s relations with Pakistan which should be strictly a bilateral issues. Mixing the two, although they are somewhat interrelated, is not advisable. Suggestion on broader talks on environment and water with Pakistan is indeed a good one since it directly helps the people of Pakistan, and an issue that India should take seriously.
— PK, Sacremento, CA
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
29.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
It is preposterous to suggest that India should initiate arms control when Pakistan is bulking up on fighter jets and nukes, ostensibly to fight the Taliban. The government should first get down to the task of taking care of the development of the country, driving growth and combating terrorism (both within and Pakistan sponsored)
— Jeejo, Bangalore
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
30.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
the indian congress's victory should enhance india's image in the world besides bringing stability to indian government for the next five years. most election observers expected a fragile coalition to emerge from the election. the thumping victory for prime minister manmohan singh has given him a second term, an event that has only occured once before in india's post-colonial history when jawaharlal nehru was re-elected.manmohan singh's government has promoted programs for the low income sections of indian society.the manmohan singh led congress government has actively tried to improve relations with the united states. although the new york times opposed the us-india nuclear deal, it was important for india to sign the deal and maintain it's credibility with the bush administration. to manmohan singh's credit, he was firm and determined and saw the deal through,even though his communist allies withdrew their support and his government almost collapsed. he is also viewed as a person of integrity.india's growth has slowed due to the global economic downturn.manmohan singh's past background and experience as an economist should serve india well.
india's voters ignored the talibanization in neighboring pakistan, and communal and divisive politics in electing a party that defends the country's secular values.
india is one of the top troop contributers to UN peacekeeping operations. kashmir's accession to india in '47 was legal and it's constitution is closely aligned with india's after the last 60 years.unlike pakistan which is an islamic country, indias people view themselves as a secular society and kashmir,a state that has both hindus and muslims, as an integral part of their country. india is one of the largest troop contributers to un peacekeepingg efforts and has partnered with the us in the efforts to rebuild afghanistan.
india faces daunting challenges including a large budget deficit and a need to modernize it's infrastructure.
the indian congress's win has increased hopes that economic reform will continue in india.it's communist allies opposed these reformsin recent years.however, india will have to proceed cautiously in opening it's market in view of the global downturn.
pakistan's nuclear and arms build up,and the mumbai attack last november are reminders of india's external challenges.
— amber, us
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
31.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
It is true that India has to assume greater role in Asian Subcontinent. But when it comes to Pakistan, we can not ignore the fact that Kashmir is not THE main problem, as it was impressed in the Editorial. Rather securing Pakistani state from Taliban and Separatists is the main issue. When it is not clear who exercises what influence in which part of the total Pakistani set-up (Government, Legislature, Armed forces, Judiciary and Media)with whom should India engage regarding Kashmir? What assurances can be given from the negotiating party that the rest of the stake holders agree? Please, let us all give Pakistani state time to set house in-order and then bring upon them additional burdens.
One at a time - Brick by Brick, a long lasting solution.
— Srikumar, Mumbai
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
32.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
The tone of the editorial is rather condescending. As the saying goes, for a person with a hammer the whole world seems like a nail. Not a single line in this editorial is really about India but more about protecting American's interests and ambitions - for example "...use its considerable trade clout with Iran, Sudan and Myanmar to curb Tehran’s nuclear program, end the genocide in Darfur and press Myanmar’s junta to expand human rights". Can you please add preparing a venti tazo chai-latte with soy milk for President Obama to the list?
I am not here to suggest that none of this is important but please we have enough problems on our own. We are not sure how the recession would play out in India, what to do with farmer suicides, how to have an inclusive growth, what to do with the Maoist problem and growing terrorist strikes and ways to protect the secular fabric of our nation. The people of India voted on these issues more than anything and I am really glad that the people of India gave an almost decisive mandate for a sincere and hardworking man in Dr. Manmohan Singh. India should engage with the world on its terms and conditions and when it chooses and not at the bidding of anyone.
— KM, India
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
33.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
'India's challenges' reads a lot like 'What the US would like India to do'. How about the real challenges: economic reform and lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, the environment and securing natural resources for future growth? Yes, Pakistan is important, but India seems to have limited ability to affect outcomes in its disintegrating neighbour.
— shaloub, Toronto
Recommend Recommended by 10 Readers
34.
May 19, 2009 9:00 am
Link
Well, I suppose Manmohan Singh and the South Block mandarins in New Delhi should profusely thank the NYT editorial for their generous sermon. What better way could one celebrate the successful conclusion of the largest democratic exercise in human history that led to significant upsets (e.g., the routing of the Communists in Bengal).
Note the number of times "should" and "must" are used. Such patronizing editorials, unfortunately, confirm that the reputation of the arrogant American is often well-earned.
Such a patronizing laundry list of action items would be laughable but is instead disturbing coming from a prestigious newspaper. Do we Americans have a better grasp of what's good for India than the Indians themselves?
It's interesting that NYT now considers Pakistani to be "arguably the most dangerous country on earth". India had made this point over a decade ago. Unfortunately, it took another 8 years after 9/11 for this thought to dawn to our mainstream media.
Let me offer an alternative view. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a stable Pakistan is in India's interest. A stable Pakistan is one ruled by the Army, with arms purchases funded by our taxpayer money, and planning and executing mischief against India.
The dismantling of the Pakistani nation state into smaller states is in the best interest of India in particular and for the stability of South Asia in general. I would assume that India would do her best to exercise influence in Afghanistan to ensure that Pakistani nuclear weapons would not be stationed there out of range of Indian Air Force (the "strategic depth" sought by the Pakistani Army). If the Indian administration has any strategy, it would be to assiduously work towards breaking up Pakistan.
I suppose it would take another decade for NYT to come to a similar conclusion that a feudal state devoid of a national identity cannot be propped up by foreign handouts and a common dislike of India.
Till then we will listen to the sermons over morning coffee :)
— Ajit, Sunnyvale, CA
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
35.
May 19, 2009 9:00 am
Link
and Srilanka...India in spite of fatal losses (e.g., Rajiv Gandhi) has failed to address Tamils concern in Sri Lanka for over 25 yrs now. Its initiative for peace keeping forces and to aid Sril Lankan military would not have been necessary had India has supported the cause of Tamils in Srilanka. In these post-mortem efforts, Indian government stance has also earned the wrath of its own people (in TamilNadu).
— Balaji Raman, Singapore
All Editors' Selections » EDITORS' SELECTIONS (what's this?)
May 19, 2009 7:03 am
Link
Several comments regarding your editorial on what India should do in regards to Pakistan. You are right, India showed remarkable restraint in not attacking Pakistan after the Mumbai attack. Especially since the Indian government believes that elements of the Pakistani army/intelligence were involved. In addition, your paper reported sources in the US intelligence organization that Pakistan's ISI was involved in the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul that killed two senior Indian officials.
Even if US aid is not used directly to build Pakistani nukes, money is fungible, and the resources freed up by the aid will be used by the Pakistani's to build nukes.
So to ask India to unilaterally stop developing additional nuclear material and to go into arms control talks with Pakistan and China is unrealistic. Do you really think that China wants to have arms control discussions? China is a major security concern for India and the US. India's military calculus is more centered on China than Pakistan. Your proposal is a non-starter.
As far as Kashmir is concerned, India would have agreed to converting the current Line of Control as the International border. That is the only pragmatic solution. There are several precedents to this. Bengal was divided between India and East Pakistan. Punjab was divided between India and West Pakistan and Pashtunistan was divided by the Durand line. Pakistani leaders have come close to accepting such a deal in the past but unfortunately have been overtaken by events in their own country before consummating the deal.
The reason that there is a strong presence of the Indian army near the Pakistani border is to prevent infiltration by terrorists from Pakistan. Often under cover fire from the Pakistani army. Every week there are reports in the Indian press of pitched battles as the Indian forces try and stop the terrorists from entering India. Do you really think that any Indian government can order its military to withdraw from the border while terrorists are entering on a regular basis.
The only way the US Af-Pak strategy will work is if the ruling elite in Pakistan (i.e. the Army ) finally realize that it is not in their best interests to keep India as the bogeyman. Until now, the demonizing of India has allowed the Pakistani army to control Pakistan. Like some one correctly said, Most countries have an army while in Pakistan the army has a country. That calculus will have to change for the Pakistani elite. India getting stronger v.vs. Pakistan will help that cause not the other way around as your editorial suggests.
— Sanjiv, San Jose, CA
Recommend Recommended by 43 Readers
2.
All Editors' Selections » EDITORS' SELECTIONS (what's this?)
May 19, 2009 7:09 am
Link
It is commendable to exhort India to show regional leadership because of the stable mandate. However - Pakistan's nuclear activities have little correlation to whether India shows leadership or not. Just because its a next door neighbor does not make India a big brother to Pakistan. Pakistan's big brother has always been the United States - and her nuclear activities and stability are directly correlated to US policies and funding. In fact, many of the suggestions made in this editorial have already been pursued ad nauseum by India with different Pakistani regimes - yielding very limited results. Kashmir has had democratically elected government for quite a while now. Asking India to "resolve" the Kashmir issue without specifying what the resolution is expected in this editorial makes it a very weak argument. India has lots of other challenges besides Pakistan that could have been addressed in this editorial. Trust me - Pakistan's nuclear activities were hardly in the Indian voter's mind when they were selecting one party over another.
Both the title and contents of this editorial are misleading. But I agree that the concern is genuine.
If there's a key to changing things in Pakistan one way or the other, it lies with the United States - and that mandate was given not last week - but on November 4th, 2008. I hope we see a game changer there.
— Susmit, PA
Recommend Recommended by 30 Readers
3.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You are not making any practical sense when you come up with these kinds of editorials. India has two main challenges..reducing poverty and keeping itself safe from the insanity around it. Arms control talks with Pakistan and China? Where's the US in all of this? India has to make Pakistan happy over Kashmir so Pakistan can do the US bidding? Stop unilaterally refining nuclear fuel when its surrounded by China and Pakistan, two of the worlds biggest proliferators?
Come one guys. Get a modicum of common sense before you come up with this kind of stuff. Its laughable.
— gr, Glenview, Il
Recommend Recommended by 44 Readers
4.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
History is testament to the fact that the United States has been on the wrong, short-sighted, self-serving path when it comes to the subcontinent. As a result, Pakistan is now a pathethic caricature of a client state. Its leaders have been reduced to barricading themselves from the extremists in their palaces whilst at home and shamelessly begging for unaccounted aid when abroad. India has taken a different path and must continue on it. Relationship with the United States is important but comes at a great cost. India must do what is in its own best interests, develop its own foreign relationships and defend its own self interests. It can not, and must not, reduce itself to being a pawn on a global chessboard as its neighbor has.
— Nuz2Me, Utah
Recommend Recommended by 26 Readers
5.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Does India really need advice from the editors at the New York Times ? For that matter, do they need advice from anyone in the west?
From what I read, Indians still believe in hard work, free markets and capitalism. Maybe we should be taking advice from them.
— m. jones, nm
Recommend Recommended by 28 Readers
6.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You guys mess up with every one and others have to take responsibility. You should probably stop being selfish and develop a human heart.
— Suresh, India
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
7.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
As long as this idea is being shoved down Pakistan's throat that India is the dominant power and Pakistan needs to submit to their leadership in the region, nothing can be resolved.
You talk about India's "constructive" role in Afghanistan. For Pakistan it is very suspicious why India being a country with no cultural or geographic affinity with Afghanistan is being allowed to have a dominant role there. On the other hand Pakistan which has a 2200 km long border with that country and a significant population which has cultural affinity with Afghanistan is being used with no regard to its own strategic interests.
I think the idea is very clear here. Pakistan is being encircled to fall in line with India's regional leadership role with the ultimate objective of countering China. The problem with the plan is that Pakistan is getting nothing in return and it is being left to India's goodwill to solve all mutual disputes. This kind of plan can easily backfire because although Pakistan is smaller than India, it is not insignificant.
I think it would behove the US to try and deal with Pakistan seperately from India in a way that takes into account Pakistan's interests also. That is the only way of dealing with this situation in fair manner.
— SAM, CA
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
8.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
How can you deal with a state based on religion which preaches hatred of other religions? Until Pakistan gives up it's religious bigotry, accepts both pluralism and democracy, there is no hope for Pakistan. India might as well ask "Am I brother's keeper?"
— V.R.Anil Kumar, Mysore, India
Recommend Recommended by 23 Readers
9.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Pakistan is only sane to fear India. With India greatly expanding its conventional as well as nuclear capabilities, build more nuclear bombs is the only way Pakistan can balance India off. In terms of military buildup, there is no significant difference between India and Pakistan. Both are very poor countries in terms of living standard of their people, but both are spending disproportionally on arms. They created real fear and contempt toward each other, because they let pride get in the way and can not master pragmatism. India was colonized by the British for a long time, that damaged their self-confidence. India need a bold leader to turn their national psyche around, but sadly, we have not seen one in the past 50 years.
As for Pakistan, India and China to get together to negotiate arms control. This is just wishful thinking. The U.S. is directly and indirectly arming India as part of "League of Democracy" to contain China; China is arming Pakistan directly and indirectly as a way to squeeze India. Those relationship are deeply entangled. Without a grand bargain that also involve the shape of U.S.-China relations, south Asia will not see true tranquility in a long time to come.
— horsham, north carolina
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
10.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Asking India to negotiate with Pakistan is like asking Israel to negotiate with Iran - we don't hear that from you a lot, do we? Did United States negotiate with Iraq or Al Queda? Pakistan's nukes have only one purpose - to destroy Hindu civilization when it goes down.
— TruthPrevails, Mumbai, India
Recommend Recommended by 30 Readers
11.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
It is a fantasy to think a parliamentary-elected govt. could take a leadership role. Each member of the parliament is loyal to its special interests and.or ethnic group. Parliament-elected govts. are weak. They are the whips that the U.S. and more stable dictatorships like Iran crack.
— Lee Walker, Oakland, CA
Recommend Recommended by 4 Readers
12.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Yeah. Right. You keep pumping billions of dollars, and selling fighter jets to a crazed Muslim country with no history of democracy or even stability; that has nukes it cannot or barely control; cannot effectively control its own regions; whose army intelligence apparatus is autonomous of the government --
and then not just advocate India to show restraint -- which by the way it shows in ample measure, but to complain that it has not done enough?!!
What hutzpah!
— krish, SF Bay Area, CA
Recommend Recommended by 41 Readers
13.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
You are right - it is high time India solve the Kashmir issue by forcing Pakistan to vacate part of Kashmir it illegally grabbed in 1948. Pakistan can't control its own territory, how can it govern the land it illegally grabbed? India should take back its own country and do a better job than Pakistan.
Also to solve problem of terrorism, India should pull another Bangladesh on Pakistan. US has pampered and spoilt Pakistan for a long time and India had to bear the brunt of terrorism eminating from Pakistan. Even now US is following the same misguided policies. So let US wollow in its own ignorance and wishful thinking. By breaking Pakistan in four countries and spliting the army, the problem of terrorism will be solved once and for all.
— umok, WA
Recommend Recommended by 12 Readers
14.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Article:"Trying to keep up to 100 bombs from extremists is hard enough"
Every reader should remember the there were thousands of nuclear bombs in the hands of extremists for eight years, starting January 20th, 2001. Recall all the talk about from that administration about "needing" to use nuclear bombs as bunker-busters in Iraq. We almost became the third nation to use nuclear weapons, as well as the first and second such nation.
— Ken Belcher, Chicago
Recommend Recommended by 9 Readers
15.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
I agree. India must tell Pakistan that it has no intention to conquer or de-stabilize Pakistan. As widely felt in India, a vibrant and secular Pakistan is good for India as well. As an ordinary Indian citizen, I would want Pakistan to prosper on all fronts and develop tolerance for people of other faiths. If it happens, India will be at peace as well. With China, India competes in economic activity. It should not have any aspiration to counter China militarily. Because if it does, it would drain its already scarce resources which it should deploy in development and welfare of its people.
India must sign NPT. One nuclear bomb or 100 would not give security enough to any nation. In a nuclear war nobody wins. She should not support any nation that has nuclear ambitions and if possible destroy all its nuclear weapons. Even if Pakistan nukes India, nuking Pakistan will be act of revenge and destruction of common man, and what would we have achieved in the end?I am not saying do not protect yourself. But nuclear weapons are no means to achieve security. Besides, there won't be any invasion at nation's level anymore. All wars currently are low intensity conflicts. So we don't need nuclear weapons.
Kashmir can be made independent if Kashmiris of all faiths are part of it and want independence. Just Muslims and not Pandits desiring so, would not enable any peace process to reach its end. Pakistan should also ask for an inclusive Kashmir that has Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus unlike herself, where ethnic cleansing has been going on for the past 60 years.
Finally, India should control its extreme right. We were always a peace loving and a spiritual nation. Let us retain that image and move towards economic prosperity.
— dram48, Bangalore, India
Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers
16.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
This is Washington's prescription for India for Washington's own good. This is the line which Obama administration would expect India to toe. Whether these policy reccomendations are in India's interests needs to be debated. Washington has been seen as a Pakistani crony in India and the perception there is that Washington has ignored all of Pakistan's past sins, co-habited with China and spawned regional terrorism. The very fact that Washington has been unable to curb Pakistan's nuclear programme is reason enough to believe that the Obama administration is failing to use its leverage in Pakistan and Afghanistan. America cannot afford an indifferent India which is also assidously being courted by the Chinese too. Ignoring India may just mean that the powershift to China may happen a lot sooner.
— James Baker, Toronto, Canada
Recommend Recommended by 21 Readers
17.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
Maybe the US should lead the way by cutting off billions of dollars of its own taxpayers dollars sent as aid to Pakistan that is ultimately used to fund terrorist training camps and purchase nuclear weapons. An American professor I know still finds the ignorance of US representatives in Pakistan about the perils of giving billions of dollars to any hand that is stretched out, unbelievable. He was called in by the USAID head in Islamabad to give a briefing about what to do with the cash pile that organization was sitting on. She had no idea what was going on in the country and was giving away funds to anyone who approached her. Maybe you should send people who have some knowledge about the ground realities there.
— Skasster, India
Recommend Recommended by 14 Readers
18.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
The possibility of good India-Pakistan relationship is far from being practical! Past experiences have shown that Pakistan government (or to be precise, Pakistani military!) can't be trusted! It is just that they thrive on propagating a sense of hatred towards their secular neighbour.So the government in India can do absolutely nothing about it!( But they won't admit it!!)
— ranjan, india
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
19.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
While the spirit of the article is acceptable, the tone leaves a lot desired. Pakistan gets billions of dollars in military aid while India gets sermons. What kind of logic is this?
Yes Pakistani citizens and civil society is suffering and that has to change. Also India and Pakistan can live together with harmony as there are many concerns that are common to both countries. Pakistan has a huge responsibility in making this happen. How come the economy of Pakistan is in doldrums yet they find resources to expand their nuclear arsenal and for what purpose? In the name of assisting Pakistan in fighting Taliban, looks like US creating another Frankenstein's monster in South Asia. US should not absolve itself of its moral responsibility in the damage it is causing by continuously pouring money into Pakistan without demanding and ensuring accountability.
Looks like even Obama is also gradually subscribing to the myopic approach that US embraced for the last four decades vis-a-vis India and Pakistan. India needs no sympathy from US. It needs US to be fair and firm in its dealings with Pakistan and India. Looks like this is not going to happen
— Vish, UK
Recommend Recommended by 21 Readers
20.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
There is nothing India can do in Pakistan. They are a lot that grew up on poison fed daily that "Hindu" India is going to get them eventhough is Pakistan that started three wars. Pakistan can only validate its existence by proving that a multicultural multireligious India is not feasible. And there are its partners..us and China pumping billions and arming them to the teeth despite knowing that they help Al Qaeda and Taliban will be nourished.
Funny reading this editorial-- our government is contemplating billions more aid, and at the same time asking that India refrain! Why? So that the "freedom fighters" won't send another plane to New York? Are Indian lives cheap?
Throughout history, we seem to have sided with despots and dictators. When will we change? If you believe democracy is a good thing, then there are over a billion people that voted peacefully just now. How about a security council seat for India that is a 6th of humanity?
How about partnering with India in fixing up Pakistan and Afghanistan? America had always dared to take bold steps throughout history when compelled with moral problems. Let us get it done!
— Veetri, Phoenix, AZ
Recommend Recommended by 25 Readers
21.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
India's reelection of the government of Manmohan Singh, one of the world's most capable and prudent heads of government, is heartening. The fact that he is only the second Indian leader since independence to be reelected after serving a full term suggests that India may indeed be entering a phase of stable growth. That should appeal to those investing in the subcontinent’s future, and comfort those, like the United States, who are increasingly reliant on it as an ally. Additionally, the success of this exercise in democracy at such a large scale also resonates in countries like China, who have resolutely contended that such a system cannot work in nations of such complexity and scope.
To continue the discussion, please visit www.twitter.com/halwoods
— Hal Woods, Chicago, IL
Recommend Recommended by 18 Readers
22.
May 19, 2009 7:12 am
Link
It is past time the US understood its predicament in Pakistan. You can neither stop nor continue feeding the beast that controls Pakistan - its army. The former risks implosion of the country and the latter explosions worldwide. Sorry, India cannot help you out of this mess. You cannot lay the blame for Pakistan buying nukes out of US aid for development or fighting terrorism on India. Pakistan does not need more nukes to avoid the threat of India. Pakistani army needs them to scare the US into parting with its money, which will be used to perpetuate the feudal stranglehold over ordinary Pakistanis. Honestly, does anyone still believe that India seeks any of the extremist-ridden Pakistani territory?
Please learn not to mollycoddle dictatorships for short term gains next time you are revisiting policy. Tutorial one: Start with Saudi Arabia which I heard builds most Madrassas in Pakistan.
— SK, NY
Recommend Recommended by 28 Readers
23.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Expecting India to play a role in stabilizing Pakistan in any manner, let alone through progress on Kashmir seems rather naive! Progress towards any solution on Kashmir is likely to cause serious internal problems for even a stable government in Pakistan, let alone the current lame-duck administration of Mr. Zardari. It's also important to understand that with most of India's neighbors, anti-India rhetoric and posturing is de rigeur for everybody in the political process - and more so in the case of Pakistan. Any attempt by India to get involved in "stabilizing" Pakistan would probably prove counter productive.
On a related note, the US Administration and policy wonks need to get real about the fundamental nature of the Pakistani State. 60 years of an Islamist foundational doctrine, virulent anti-Indianism, and 30 years of (american-sponsored) jihadism have given these ideologies deep roots in every facet of the state, and the transition that is being expected of them today requires that these very roots be torn from the ground.
The recent confrontation with the Taliban in Swat constitutes the first credible signal from the State of its willingness to transform itself and the US needs to hold the Pak Govt to this course.
The Indian Govt would be happy to move on Kashmir (as back channel negotiations on the subject with Musharraf were testament to), but the Pakistanis must necessarily abnegate recourse to terrorist proxies as instruments of state policy, and extradite known terrorist offenders currently claiming sanctuary there under the patronage of the intelligence services, before any Indian govt could reasonably reengage in a dialogue.
— Sreeram, Bangalore
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
24.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
This article shows naivete in discussing the region.
1. "Demand assurances" from pakistan? Who from, precisely? The President, who controls nothing? Or the Army, which took $10 Billion in the past to further their own interests? "Assurances" from any Pakistani institution means nothing.
2. "Persuade" Burma's regime? Are you aware that China and India are in competition for influence there, and that China is far ahead? That most of North Eastern Burma is full of chinese, and chinese currency is freely used there? India's interest in Burma are based on realpolitik vs China not on what the rest of the world wants vis a vis democracy etc.
— jetlagged, Northern Virginia
Recommend Recommended by 8 Readers
25.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Oh dear. This editorial needs a translator well-versed in imperialese. I'll give some of it a go.
"[A]rguably the most dangerous country on earth" means "Oops, we gave billions to a country to help it oppress its own people, and now this seems to no longer work it turns out they also spent much of it on nukes instead of bombing villages. Whatever shall we do? Note: get out of other peoples' business is not a valid answer."
"Resolving issues over Kashmir" means "India and Pakistan should get their act together - but whatever you do, don't take the wishes of the people of Kashmir into account. That would set a bad precedent."
"India must assume its responsibilities" means "We need a local policeman for the Empire. India has just been volunteered."
— Christian Haesemeyer, Los Angeles
26.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
India should not deal with a state which has shown little regard to its citizen's basic rights to education and social empowerment. Washington's advice on engaging the leader of Pakistan should be voiced to the country which remains its strongest ally both economically and in terms of providing military hardware - China.
— Nitin, Wellington
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
27.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
Kashmir problem will be solved in no time if the US stops giving military aid to Pakistan. Pakistani governments of both civilian and military varieties are experts in fooling US into thinking that Pakistan is a US ally in whatever the US wants to accomplish in the region - a base fro US operations against USSR, a conduit for arms to fight Soviets or holding the line against Al Queda. Whatever the US policy, the army ends up with more weapons and gets enriched and to maintain it's position the army tells the Pakistani population that India is the enemy.
— Lordknow, Palo Alo, CA
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
28.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
The editorial indeed makes some valid points about India’s rightful regional role, yet it overlooks a major barrier. And that is the Pakistan’s army and ISI who benefits immensely by having India as a perpetual enemy. Their constant, and often unjustified, blackmail of the Pakistan’s populace by creating the specter of India’s unbridled aggression gives them justification for fleecing the Pakistan’s national budget. Thus any overtures by India, except for delivering the Kashmir on a silver plater, will not placate the two institutions that have held their own country, and now the world, hostage. And even after such an overture, given their record there is no guarantee that the Pakistan army and ISI will not find any reason not to continue the enmity. In fact, it may embolden these two institutions, just as making concessions to Taliban in Swat valley gave the Taliban encouragement to reach for more. Moreover, for the last 20 years, the Pakistan army and ISI have come to believe that the western nations and the US need the Pakistan army badly enough to let them extract their pound of flesh and still get away with much more. Amassing nuclear weapons while receiving billions of dollars from the US to allegedly fight a war on terror is an excellent example Pakistan army’s strategy. Twisting India’s arms to make concessions is no guarantee that the game that is being played for the last 20 years will change. Negotiating arms treaty to include China is a good suggestions but it should be separated from the India’s relations with Pakistan which should be strictly a bilateral issues. Mixing the two, although they are somewhat interrelated, is not advisable. Suggestion on broader talks on environment and water with Pakistan is indeed a good one since it directly helps the people of Pakistan, and an issue that India should take seriously.
— PK, Sacremento, CA
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
29.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
It is preposterous to suggest that India should initiate arms control when Pakistan is bulking up on fighter jets and nukes, ostensibly to fight the Taliban. The government should first get down to the task of taking care of the development of the country, driving growth and combating terrorism (both within and Pakistan sponsored)
— Jeejo, Bangalore
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
30.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
the indian congress's victory should enhance india's image in the world besides bringing stability to indian government for the next five years. most election observers expected a fragile coalition to emerge from the election. the thumping victory for prime minister manmohan singh has given him a second term, an event that has only occured once before in india's post-colonial history when jawaharlal nehru was re-elected.manmohan singh's government has promoted programs for the low income sections of indian society.the manmohan singh led congress government has actively tried to improve relations with the united states. although the new york times opposed the us-india nuclear deal, it was important for india to sign the deal and maintain it's credibility with the bush administration. to manmohan singh's credit, he was firm and determined and saw the deal through,even though his communist allies withdrew their support and his government almost collapsed. he is also viewed as a person of integrity.india's growth has slowed due to the global economic downturn.manmohan singh's past background and experience as an economist should serve india well.
india's voters ignored the talibanization in neighboring pakistan, and communal and divisive politics in electing a party that defends the country's secular values.
india is one of the top troop contributers to UN peacekeeping operations. kashmir's accession to india in '47 was legal and it's constitution is closely aligned with india's after the last 60 years.unlike pakistan which is an islamic country, indias people view themselves as a secular society and kashmir,a state that has both hindus and muslims, as an integral part of their country. india is one of the largest troop contributers to un peacekeepingg efforts and has partnered with the us in the efforts to rebuild afghanistan.
india faces daunting challenges including a large budget deficit and a need to modernize it's infrastructure.
the indian congress's win has increased hopes that economic reform will continue in india.it's communist allies opposed these reformsin recent years.however, india will have to proceed cautiously in opening it's market in view of the global downturn.
pakistan's nuclear and arms build up,and the mumbai attack last november are reminders of india's external challenges.
— amber, us
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers
31.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
It is true that India has to assume greater role in Asian Subcontinent. But when it comes to Pakistan, we can not ignore the fact that Kashmir is not THE main problem, as it was impressed in the Editorial. Rather securing Pakistani state from Taliban and Separatists is the main issue. When it is not clear who exercises what influence in which part of the total Pakistani set-up (Government, Legislature, Armed forces, Judiciary and Media)with whom should India engage regarding Kashmir? What assurances can be given from the negotiating party that the rest of the stake holders agree? Please, let us all give Pakistani state time to set house in-order and then bring upon them additional burdens.
One at a time - Brick by Brick, a long lasting solution.
— Srikumar, Mumbai
Recommend Recommended by 3 Readers
32.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
The tone of the editorial is rather condescending. As the saying goes, for a person with a hammer the whole world seems like a nail. Not a single line in this editorial is really about India but more about protecting American's interests and ambitions - for example "...use its considerable trade clout with Iran, Sudan and Myanmar to curb Tehran’s nuclear program, end the genocide in Darfur and press Myanmar’s junta to expand human rights". Can you please add preparing a venti tazo chai-latte with soy milk for President Obama to the list?
I am not here to suggest that none of this is important but please we have enough problems on our own. We are not sure how the recession would play out in India, what to do with farmer suicides, how to have an inclusive growth, what to do with the Maoist problem and growing terrorist strikes and ways to protect the secular fabric of our nation. The people of India voted on these issues more than anything and I am really glad that the people of India gave an almost decisive mandate for a sincere and hardworking man in Dr. Manmohan Singh. India should engage with the world on its terms and conditions and when it chooses and not at the bidding of anyone.
— KM, India
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
33.
May 19, 2009 8:54 am
Link
'India's challenges' reads a lot like 'What the US would like India to do'. How about the real challenges: economic reform and lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, the environment and securing natural resources for future growth? Yes, Pakistan is important, but India seems to have limited ability to affect outcomes in its disintegrating neighbour.
— shaloub, Toronto
Recommend Recommended by 10 Readers
34.
May 19, 2009 9:00 am
Link
Well, I suppose Manmohan Singh and the South Block mandarins in New Delhi should profusely thank the NYT editorial for their generous sermon. What better way could one celebrate the successful conclusion of the largest democratic exercise in human history that led to significant upsets (e.g., the routing of the Communists in Bengal).
Note the number of times "should" and "must" are used. Such patronizing editorials, unfortunately, confirm that the reputation of the arrogant American is often well-earned.
Such a patronizing laundry list of action items would be laughable but is instead disturbing coming from a prestigious newspaper. Do we Americans have a better grasp of what's good for India than the Indians themselves?
It's interesting that NYT now considers Pakistani to be "arguably the most dangerous country on earth". India had made this point over a decade ago. Unfortunately, it took another 8 years after 9/11 for this thought to dawn to our mainstream media.
Let me offer an alternative view. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a stable Pakistan is in India's interest. A stable Pakistan is one ruled by the Army, with arms purchases funded by our taxpayer money, and planning and executing mischief against India.
The dismantling of the Pakistani nation state into smaller states is in the best interest of India in particular and for the stability of South Asia in general. I would assume that India would do her best to exercise influence in Afghanistan to ensure that Pakistani nuclear weapons would not be stationed there out of range of Indian Air Force (the "strategic depth" sought by the Pakistani Army). If the Indian administration has any strategy, it would be to assiduously work towards breaking up Pakistan.
I suppose it would take another decade for NYT to come to a similar conclusion that a feudal state devoid of a national identity cannot be propped up by foreign handouts and a common dislike of India.
Till then we will listen to the sermons over morning coffee :)
— Ajit, Sunnyvale, CA
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
35.
May 19, 2009 9:00 am
Link
and Srilanka...India in spite of fatal losses (e.g., Rajiv Gandhi) has failed to address Tamils concern in Sri Lanka for over 25 yrs now. Its initiative for peace keeping forces and to aid Sril Lankan military would not have been necessary had India has supported the cause of Tamils in Srilanka. In these post-mortem efforts, Indian government stance has also earned the wrath of its own people (in TamilNadu).
— Balaji Raman, Singapore
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
Posts
