People with higher IQs are less likely to believe in God, according to a new study.
By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Professor Lynn said religious belief had declined in the 20th century Photo: AP
Professor Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at Ulster University, said many more members of the "intellectual elite" considered themselves atheists than the national average.
A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence, he claimed.
But the conclusions - in a paper for the academic journal Intelligence - have been branded "simplistic" by critics.
Professor Lynn, who has provoked controversy in the past with research linking intelligence to race and sex, said university academics were less likely to believe in God than almost anyone else.
A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God - at a time when 68.5 per cent of the general UK population described themselves as believers.
A separate poll in the 90s found only seven per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.
Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence - and their intelligence increased - many started to have doubts.
He told Times Higher Education magazine: "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."
He said religious belief had declined across 137 developed nations in the 20th century at the same time as people became more intelligent.
But Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society at Birkbeck College, London, said it failed to take account of a complex range of social, economic and historical factors.
"Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive, which - while we are trying to deal with very complex issues of religious and cultural pluralism - is perhaps not the most helpful response," he said.
Dr Alistair McFadyen, senior lecturer in Christian theology at Leeds University, said the conclusion had "a slight tinge of Western cultural imperialism as well as an anti-religious sentiment".
Dr David Hardman, principal lecturer in learning development at London Metropolitan University, said: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief. Nonetheless, there is evidence from other domains that higher levels of intelligence are associated with a greater ability - or perhaps willingness - to question and overturn strongly felt institutions."
PUBLIC PLATFORM:
But I think the writer is confusing God & Religion with Christ & Christianity....because Hinduism is quite advanced as far as spirituality is concerned. Rather if you are intellectually challanged, you will be unable to appreciate and imbibe the true essence of Hinduism.
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Just because something can't be proven doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are so many things happening around us all the time, that constantly go unnoticed. I'm going to guess that if we are still around in a million years at some point we will further develop tools that may be able to prove things that we thought weren't possible. Look how far we've come at this point, but by then humans probably won't be around so it really won't matter.
CRB
on August 01, 2008
at 06:17 AM
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God is dead.
Hulk
on July 31, 2008
at 08:26 AM
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Hey, It's God here. I'm really dissapointed that my children are fighting over weather I exist or not. Of course I do. Without me you wouldn't have uniformity, you would only have chaos. You need me my children. You need me to think for you. To keep you away from what you call fun. Sex gambling and killing are all a passtime for most of you. Just look at the six o'clock news. You are not that smart my children, and I must be your shepherd.
God
on July 30, 2008
at 06:40 AM
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as a non believer i still question, does the intelligent non believers think that way because of where they went to learn. A School. Religion in schools is a new thing in america at least. we learn more of evolution and science than of the bible.
jp
on July 29, 2008
at 10:43 PM
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"Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that has not been proven" - The definition alone is enough to describe intelligence of a person who has it.
alex
on July 29, 2008
at 06:58 PM
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"For his sake who did not reject your curious gifts, pray always for the learned, the oblique, the delicate. Let them not be quite forgotten at the Throne of God when the simple come into their kingdom" From a prayer to the magi, which Evelyn Waugh wrote for St Helena.
Andrew Lyon
on July 11, 2008
at 11:56 AM
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The story of redemption is Gods pursuit of man, not mans pursuit of God, cos lets face it ,man would lose his way. Christ died for me becos HE loved me first. I am more precious to HIM than anything in this world or beyond. HIS love has no boundaries.
Dele
on July 11, 2008
at 11:26 AM
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B - basic
I - insructions
B - b4
L - leaving
E- earth.
E
Dele
on July 11, 2008
at 10:25 AM
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Jeez. I'm an atheist and I'm kind of offended by the study. To say that atheism is directly linked to intelligence is strange to say the least... I'm 14, and I've been an atheist since I was about six or seven.
As for Dele's quote of the bible, I didn't have emotional trauma or damage as a child. My parents were loving and supportive and took me to bible school but allowed me to think whatever I wanted to think about religion. One day I was just thinking to myself after someone older had said that they were an atheist, and I thought about what they'd said. It made sense to me at the time. God never really played a big role in my life, and I'd already learned about some science through books and school, and I just decided that their couldn't be a god. There's too many things against it.
So does that make me naturally suspicious?
In any case, I guess you could say I was a smart child. That in no way makes me smarter than all believers just because I formed an opinion out of logic and possibly even a little bit of cynicism.
I don't know really. Because I don't believe in god and I'm devout of the christian faith, does that make me smarter than everyone else?
Smarter in what sense?
Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Really, does anyone care to know? What difference does it make? I respect everyone that has faith, because no matter what, they always have hope, because they feel that someone is watching over them. They can go through life feeling comfortable, while atheists can ultimately feel alone. I'm not saying that's true for everyone, just from the few experiences I've had.
So perhaps we're smarter in the science sense. But there's more to life than science. Science to me is about finding and dissecting the truth, and most of the time the truth is terribly ugly. It's a general rule that lies are beautiful, and while I'm not trying to bash any religion of any kind, it is my personal belief that god does not exist.
So here I am, in my own personal truth. Is it better that way? I suppose for me. I live for my truth, but the consequences of not settling for an idea are severe. I'm okay with that, and I can handle that.... it doesn't make me any different than all the people that stem from the same root.... whether created by god or evolution.
McCarthy
on July 11, 2008
at 07:15 AM
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Jesus teaches in Matthew 18:3 that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, we must come as a child. Without child-like faith we cannot experience the Kingdom. Children naturally trust and believe easily unless they have been hurt or abused. It is tragic to find a fearful, non-trusting, and suspicious child. These are symptoms of emotional damage.
In order to embrace the supernatural there needs to be the presence of a child-like trust in God (not in man but in God). This kind of faith and trust makes one very vulnerable. On one hand, we must believe and trust, but on the other hand we need to discern.
I have personally determined to live as a believer and not a doubter. I would rather believe than doubt and I always choose belief before doubt as I know that God loves and adores faith. I want to please Him with a child-like heart. I always want to protect the innocence and the purity of that heart as it is all I have to offer Him. Everything I do, everything I speak, flows from the abundance of my heart.
I have been disappointed in my walk with the Lord on a few occasions when I have chosen to believe someone and then discovered that they lied to me or walked in deceptive acts. This is always difficult as it jars the child-like innocence of your believing heart. I have been tempted at those times to put a wall of skepticism and mistrust around my life so that I am not deceived again, but the Lord has helped me to continue to remain child-like and to remain in His perfect love. He has protected that innocence. I have seen many skeptics and it is sad� the lack of trust keeps them from all that God has for them. The walls around the heart thicken. We must protect our child-like heart.
Dele
on July 10, 2008
at 05:20 PM
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bGod doesn't believe in athiest;
therefore they don't exist.
A person will believe what ever they want to believe.A person will play the lottery because they believe they may win. May I quote the Bible? "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." Not that it makes any difference but my IQ test over 130 on several test, and that may indicate I have considerable knowledge, but it doesn't mean I have wisdom."Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom". There is a distinct difference in knowledge and wisdom. I would rather live as if there is a Heaven and Hell and God, and be right, than too live as if there isn't and be wrong.
Marty
on July 10, 2008
at 02:25 PM
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To the one who Posted by Jon on July 10, 2008 06:38 AM - Hello friend, Can you put a train carriage in front of a train and expect it to move anywhere, can you put the carriage before the horse. There is a reason why children need to be trained,-the carriage follows the train(engine), thats the only way it can move. Children cant just develop on their own can they? The whole point is we feel we ve grown and stuffed our lives with so much irrelevancies that when the really important thing like SALVATION for ones soul comes along, we simply ignore it.
Dele
on July 10, 2008
at 11:54 AM
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Hey Dele,
Most children don't even have a concern for god of any sort until adults start putting those ideas in their heads. :P
Jon
on July 10, 2008
at 06:38 AM
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Finally, someone who is willing to come out and say the truth! I feel like we live in a culture of idiot-worship, where we're too sensitive to criticize idiotic beliefs just because they are widely-held. It's time for us to realize there is nothing inherently noble about stupidly and blindly following an organized religion, and in fact there is a lot of danger in it. "Let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." - Richard Dawkins
Yaya
on July 09, 2008
at 10:40 AM
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Jesus teaches in Matthew 18:3 that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, we must come as a child. Without child-like faith we cannot experience the Kingdom. Children naturally trust and believe easily unless they have been hurt or abused. It is tragic to find a fearful, non-trusting, and suspicious child. These are symptoms of emotional damage.
In order to embrace the supernatural there needs to be the presence of a child-like trust in God (not in man but in God). This kind of faith and trust makes one very vulnerable. On one hand, we must believe and trust, but on the other hand we need to discern.
I have personally determined to live as a believer and not a doubter. I would rather believe than doubt and I always choose belief before doubt as I know that God loves and adores faith. I want to please Him with a child-like heart. I always want to protect the innocence and the purity of that heart as it is all I have to offer Him. Everything I do, everything I speak, flows from the abundance of my heart.
I have been disappointed in my walk with the Lord on a few occasions when I have chosen to believe someone and then discovered that they lied to me or walked in deceptive acts. This is always difficult as it jars the child-like innocence of your believing heart. I have been tempted at those times to put a wall of skepticism and mistrust around my life so that I am not deceived again, but the Lord has helped me to continue to remain child-like and to remain in His perfect love. He has protected that innocence. I have seen many skeptics and it is sad� the lack of trust keeps them from all that God has for them. The walls around the heart thicken. We must protect our child-like heart.
Dele
on July 08, 2008
at 01:02 PM
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Lynn's argument is similar to blaming high murder rates on increased sales in ice cream when there is most likely a third hidden variable such as an increase in temperature. Just as people can be indoctrinated with religion, a culture can influence the popularity of secularism and antitheism. This appears especially true to me within universities where humanism reigns supreme. What does IQ have to do with current popular opinion and culture? There are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and those who do not. This in and of itself proves nothing regarding the existence of God.
Erica Hinrichs (PhD candidate, Psychology)
on July 08, 2008
at 07:07 AM
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Belief in god(s) is nonsense, if one believes in god(s) they must also believe in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy and Unicorns.
There is no such thing as god(s) and you will not find any reassurance in bronze age desert dogmas.
Indeed, the more intlligent you are, the more likely you are to be non theistic or at a minimum, skeptical.
Why would a rational person need to convince him/herself that there is an invisible man in the sky spying on them? irrational nonsense.
Rob
on July 08, 2008
at 06:21 AM
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Lynn's argument is similar to blaming high murder rates on increased sales in ice cream when there is most likely a third hidden variable such as an increase in temperature. Just as people can be indoctrinated with religion, a culture can influence the popularity of secularism and antitheism. This appears especially true to me within universities where humanism reigns supreme. What does IQ have to do with current popular opinion and culture? There are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and those who do not. This in and of itself proves nothing regarding the existence of God.
Erica Hinrichs (PhD candidate, Psychology)
on July 07, 2008
at 10:23 PM
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Lynn's argument is similar to blaming high murder rates on increased sales in ice cream when there is most likely a third hidden variable such as an increase in temperature. Just as people can be indoctrinated with religion, a culture can influence the popularity of secularism and antitheism. This appears especially true to me within universities where humanism reigns supreme. What does IQ have to do with current popular opinion and culture? There are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and those who do not. This in and of itself proves nothing regarding the existence of God.
Erica Hinrichs (PhD candidate, Psychology)
on July 07, 2008
at 10:21 PM
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In truth, I was a bit skeptical at first and i still am about some of the claims, but many of the believers that have posted have done much to relieve my skepticism.
Charles Nauck
on July 07, 2008
at 04:38 PM
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Can you doubters and disbelievers of God at least consider the possibility that maybe its you who might be so SPIRITUALLY DEAD, the concept of God being is a distant notion you cant fathom because you lack the sensitivity to even connect with anything spiritual as a result of your deadness so to speak. It a thought worth exploring. JESUS IS LORD OF ALL. everyday the spiritual gets more real to me than what i now see. You acheive this in prayer and meditation on the WORD of GOD - BIBLE.
Dele
on July 04, 2008
at 11:26 AM
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I don't care what anyone says even if my iq is minus -300, I believe that there is a creator = god, for those who don't know god means creator. Look at the sky and see the out side of the box (earth) and see the big picture... I am a computer programmer myself we know who has programmed the software, but who did programmed every living things on earth how they are programmed to born, grow and die. How come every individuals have unique finger print, eye(iris), face, DNA or unique thinking, unique voice.
Emotions are making us give decisions, Why do we have emotions as a human? Does animals, plants or even earth and extreme universe have emotions? What would have happened if we did not have emotions? How come scientists are not even near giving robots 100% emotions (Artificial Intelligence) unique thinking.
Think!
-----------------------------
Extreme Zone...
How does brainwashing works? = Emotions...
ismail
on July 04, 2008
at 08:08 AM
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Marx's comment is still valid: Religion = opium.
Yaotl
on July 03, 2008
at 06:47 AM
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There is only 1 thing I don't understand, that is how the Living God could have faith in people like the Professor. His love surely is unfathomable to the human mind.
Tom
on July 02, 2008
at 07:25 PM
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ChrisD obviously lacks understanding of the results of this study, just because he has a high IQ and believes in a magical being who lives on a cloud and hurls lightning down on those he disapproves of doesn't negate the studies results. The results on show it is more likely that people with high IQs do not believe in god, this is a fairly simple result i would have thought someone with such a high (o'rly?) IQ would have been able to understand that
John
on July 02, 2008
at 01:58 PM
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Dear ChrisD, you may well, as claimed, have an IQ of 130 (whatever that means) however this does not stop you being an idiot.
Do you really mean to tell us that you honestly believe that if you don't give your heart to Jesus you will burn somewhere (somewhere that doesn't actually exist mind) for an eternity?
If you do not follow the above completely ridiculous proposition perhaps you would like to clarify which God it is you are believing in?
JackH
on July 02, 2008
at 01:00 PM
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The only people who believe in god are the ones who are afraid to grow up and realize for themselves that god and santa clause are the same guy. They are planted in the imagination to make children behave. The devil is the same as the boogie man in your closet. It's fear. Anyway, people who claim to believe in god, can't even agree on what god is. Each have their own pretend version of him. Everytime one refutes another claim about god, suddenly "god" means something else. God is merely a god of the gaps. The more truth that is revealed, the less room there is for god to play a role in reality. If you follow that trend further you notice that the truth is that there is no god. As The more scientifically educated people have had to reduce their god to fit in between their knowledge of their experience in the universe. Einstein didn't believe in a god, but he simply referred to the mysteries of nature as god. Some scientists say god and mean only the natural forces of nature. The less educated people don't have as many conflicts because they have much larger holes in their knowledge, like creationists. Some people have conversations with god inside their heads. People are crazy, even some of the smart ones.
theshredator
on July 02, 2008
at 09:36 AM
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It is hard for me to understand how really intelligent people believe in God. This is a mystery. Yet,I know many intelligent, open-minded people whom I respect and love who do believe. The difference between these people and myself is really very little: I have similar values: kindness, doing unto others aware : God or not, there seems very little difference. I respect people for believing, and part of me wishes I could believe, but I cannot be convinced. Maybe it is not a matter of intelligence but a matter of the heart which is not rational.In my heart I don't believe,and I guess that has less to do with the mind. Who knows?!
Rani
on July 01, 2008
at 12:45 PM
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Linking high IQ to lack of belief in God is, of course, utter rubbish. I have an IQ over 130 but have always believed in a higher spiritual force (God) and existences beyond the physical. I also once worked in science establishments and have science qualifications; but I am perhaps a much more open-minded scientist. I prefer to accept the view that "with God, all things are possible" and that one should never be dismissive of something simply because, in one's earthly human opinion, it simply "isn't possible". I often have to mix with very narrow-minded, materialistic people who are deeply cynical about the whole of Life itself; for them, there's nothing beyond the blackness of Death. I have read articles about NDE's and many other incredible things that truly set the mind thinking on fresh lines. I find it deeply disconcerting that scientists are often so rigid in their thinking; the wonders of quantum physics for example, could illustrate the presence of new dimensions; scanning tunnelling microscopes reveal incredible beauty at levels beyond our sight.
Just because we can't see something doesn't mean it isnt there; same with God. "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe". Go figure.
ChrisD
on July 01, 2008
at 12:43 PM
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No need,
I am free to believe in any way I see fit. So are you. That's the beauty of it.
I am free to agree or disagree with any belief structure presented to me based on my own instincts. Just because I may come to a personal understanding doesn't make it automatically relevant to anyone else.
There is no right or wrong. The more people that can come to this realization, the less conflict in the name of people's personal beliefs will arise. I have studied many religions and while I have found some beauty as well as useful bits of knowledge and wisdom in some of them, I could never become a follower of any of them.
So I do not adopt them as a personal set of rules upon which to structure my life. If I find anything I can use, I keep it and the rest is tossed aside. Atheism is easy for me to reject as it is simply a belief in nothing which leaves no course of study. It leaves one with a choice of nothing.
I reject nothingness because the world I live in does not exist in a vacuum. But that's me. Some people believe theirs does. I say more power to them. No skin off my nose. To quote the wisdom of the brilliant Mr. George Clinton:
"Free your mind and your ass will follow. The kingdom of heaven is within."
Joe
on June 30, 2008
at 11:38 PM
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noneedforcrutches.
I see you dislike people forcing their views onto others, and telling them what they should believe, yet you tell Joe what he can believe. He has to accept the baggage you place on his beliefs, a baggage he has alredy explained does nto fall on him in his beleifs. Surely yours is a hypocritical stance.
fangio
on June 30, 2008
at 11:34 PM
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Two roads my friends, he wide road and the narrow road. which do you see yourself on.Choice wisely. Dont let "self pride" more like foolishness rub you of who you were meant and created to be. Its time to open your eyes.
Dele
on June 30, 2008
at 01:23 PM
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Noneedforcrutches, I Sympathise with you on the loss of your family. I cant begin to imagine and understand your pain and fraustration. Butn I need you to understand something, physical death is not the same as spiritual death. There is an afterlife and where we want to spend it is OUR SOLE choice. The price has been paid and the offer has been made, choose LIFE. the devil has been busy deceiving most people, He would rather let you think he do not exist and then give you a scary reception when one dies. The thing is, am not advocating religion, like most have said Religion has been a major cause of strife in the world today and this is very true. Yes it is man made. That is exactly why GOD had to come in the form of the man -JESUS to show us the way. disbelieving doesnt make it any less true.
Dele
on June 30, 2008
at 01:06 PM
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You just can't have it both ways Joe. You believe in a supernatural being, just one of many, all dreamt up and created by men, and so many of them simply discarded when convenient to do so,also by men. Believing in "god" comes with baggage my friend, accept it.
Noneedforcrutches
on June 30, 2008
at 06:32 AM
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noneedforcrutches,
You didn't pay attention to anything I said. You just saw the words "I believe in god" and went into knee jerk mode. I believe that religion is a method of controlling the masses, and I said exactly that. I didn't say anything about believing in any one or thing "keeping us in check". I said exactly the opposite. I think such an idea is nonsense. In your zeal for your personal belief, you glossed right over that. You're just hearing what you want to in order to defend what you have chosen to perceive as a threat to your rationale. You say you have no belief system, I think that's great. Whatever works for you works fine for me and does not make me feel threatened in any way. But since your desire to attack any viewpoint that isn't like yours is interfering with your ability to listen, allow me to reiterate and make myself very clear on this point. I do not believe in any religion. Religion was created by men to be a source of oppression, hatred, war, and control. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing and I believe in none of it. I do believe in "god", however. I fail to see what is so difficult and threatening about that. I believe in the power of the universe. In my heart and mind it is the reason that everything exists. If that works for me, great. Everyone is free to believe in what makes them comfortable. Telling people that don't agree with you that they are "part of the problem" isn't part of the problem. It is the problem.
Joe
on June 29, 2008
at 06:25 PM
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When belief comes in conflict with reason...faith among the populous trumps reason every time.
Hugawolf
on June 29, 2008
at 08:50 AM
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When belief comes in conflict with reason...belief among the populous trumps reason every time.
Hugawolf
on June 29, 2008
at 08:49 AM
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Joe,
By saying I believe that a man looks over humanity and keeps us all in check is just as stupid and ignorant as believing that a supernatural being keeps us in check.There has never been a "god" to keep us in check".Is it so difficult to accept, that a bunch of intellectually challenged,controlling men created your "god" for their own self gratification. It's a way of controlling the minds of possibly weaker, more gulliable people. By not believing in people and blindly following a story full of hatred and absurd ideas, you become part of the problem. I have no "belief system". I have no need to "worship" a three lettered word (your fictitional character, god), I am content. I say you're part of the overall problem because people such as yourself push your "god" fantasy onto impressionable kids and the whole terrible destructive myth of god, religion and intolerance for anyone who appreciates humanity and what humanity has achieved over the centuries, rolls on causing more pain and more suffering to those people who least deserve it.
Noneedforcrutches
on June 29, 2008
at 08:32 AM
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There is Catholic prophecy that tells us that the world will be communist (atheist)in the end times and certainly it is coming true. Only a remnant of God's true people will be left as we get closer to the anti-christ who will deceive the world into worshipping him. It's about faith not a big IQ. God's people come from all walks of life and those who reject the truth reject Christ who is the Way, the truth, and the life. History proves Jesus was truly God made man and the evidence is there if you really want it.
Cindy Piper
on June 29, 2008
at 08:31 AM
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'The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them'
(Thomas Jefferson) Jefferson did believe in God. He just believed that the churches of his day had become corrupted - which they had. Would there be any science without the scientist? Would there be any engineering without the engineer. I have no recollection of ever seeing my father but I know he exists. The time is soon coming when atheism will be ridiculed and discredited just as christianity has and then you will worship your god who has been waiting in the wings. You may wish you had worshipped the real God while you had your freedom.
LukeAir2008
on June 29, 2008
at 08:19 AM
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You're absolutely correct sir, when I saw the errors in my last entry I was embarrassed, and felt shame.I'm certainly going to keep my eye on any future spelling. Thanks.
Noneedforcrutches
on June 28, 2008
at 04:07 PM
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I believe in god. I think I would be silly not to. I just don't believe in people. And religion is a sole creation of people. Religion is a con job. A way to keep the masses oppressed and at war with each other. God, on the other hand, I believe is very real. What causes my organs to function? They just do. What causes anything on this earth to function and sustain itself? It just does. God to me is the existence of everything that is, has been, or ever will be. But to think it's a man in the sky watching everything you do and keeping a list and checking it twice who will choose to reward or punish you accordingly is childish, foolish, and just plain stupid as far as I'm concerned.
Joe
on June 28, 2008
at 03:00 PM
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I think some of you folks posting here need to use spell check. Considering yourselves the intelligent minority and you cannot even use proper grammar or spelling? Makes me wonder! By the way I am an atheist. Godspeed!
shades of gray
on June 28, 2008
at 02:01 PM
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Dele, it's one thing to think that there's some sort of after life existance, I agree it would be comforting to many people, but mate to live your whole life apparantly obsessed with the notion that there's has to be an afterlife is detrimental to your health.I say that because I don't need convincing that if the human race spent more time healing themselves through self analysis based on human intelligence and mistakes made in the past, and not supernatural intelligence, a stronger, more loving (human love, not to be confused with the love between a human and a story/religion, which I believe to be delusional),a more tolerant, more progressive society will develope. A society without any religion, what a utopia.I must point out I find it very difficult to link the word "intelligence" with "supernatural". I too busy in my life to waste time wondering what happens after I die. I don't believe my mother, father,sister and brother were comforted by the thought of going to a an imaginary place some humans call "heaven",as they lay trapped in a crushed car upside down in a creek dying from asphyxiation. Live your, don't waste it. Every little speck of human intelligece helps.Nnfc
Noneedforcrutches
on June 28, 2008
at 08:37 AM
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What "chance" are you talking about? I'd rather live my life in happiness than live it in fear of death. Plus, look at it this way, if there was a God (which, of course, we all know there isn't), he's supposedly omniscient and therefore would know that you claim to believe in him just "in case."
Kevin
on June 27, 2008
at 07:09 PM
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The thing is you die one day! Do you really want to take that chance?
Dele
on June 27, 2008
at 12:58 PM
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I propose somethig my atheist friends,hear me out but here goes.
Over here in Aust. we have a frozen chicken producing company who claim in their advertisement that if you don't eat/like their particular type of chicken, there's something wrong with you. I'm proposing, it could possibly be made law, that all believers of all religions start consuming these chickens as fast as you can get your hands on them. As there's something definately wrong with the religious persons wiring, it seems like a good dose of ------ chicken will ensure that there will no longer be anything wrong with you.Free from stupidity,forever.
noneedforcrutches
on June 27, 2008
at 12:19 PM
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Sheep indeed my friend, sheep indeed.
Noneedforcrutches
on June 27, 2008
at 10:55 AM
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Any thicky could tell that a belief in a god is so much superstitious mumbo-jumbo. You only have to think really, really hard. I don't know, retend thinking is a TV show or something else that you thickies like so as you won't get bored and try to think really, really hard. I dare you! You might even come to some other conclusions and make some other realisations in the process. Bah, sheep....
Graeme
on June 27, 2008
at 06:50 AM
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For all you self proclaimed atheist,unbelivers,those of you who believe there is more than just one way to God and you God haters, wait till you see/realise the light/truth. You ll be like , "wow.... I ve been so silly, all my life you were right here" Believe me it happens everyday.So many like you come to see what they ve been missing. And for you believers who are not "yet" Revelling in HIS glory like you should -BUCKLE UP-. the days are running by so swiftly.stop missing out and get connected to divine transforming power. Arise and Let your life Shine. HEAVEN is closer than you think. I prophecy to you in the name above every other name-JESUS. And to the 11th grade person -Nicole, dont let the lies of men blind you from the truth. Love will set you free,I feel it, trust GOD.
Dele
on June 26, 2008
at 12:14 PM
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For a scientist he appears to have a very poor grasp of scientific method.
He has taken a high IQ group and said that group have high IQ and most don't beliee in God, therefore people with high IQ's are less likely to believe in God.
However, the defining factor of the group was not IQ it was being a scientist, and a fellow at that, and in the cultural background of America.
Is it their IQ, their education, their culture or something else that informs their belief. Certainly it cannot be any form of proof beceuase of course it is impossible to proove the non-existence of God.
It would be like taking a group of top theologians, measuring their IQ (which woudl be high as top level theology is pretty complicated) and then asking them if they beleive in God and drawing a conclusion from that.
Without knowing what % of the top IQ people are in the societies he surveyed it is impossible to say how flawed his research is, but his application of his findings from this survey of a group to the general populace is ridiculous.
The willingness of atheist to accept this shows that htye too can be guilty of believing things without looking a the evidence if they think it's right.
fangio
on June 26, 2008
at 09:21 AM
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I'm an atheist.
I'm in 11th Grade and I go to a Catholic school.
I hate it when people completely dismiss religion though, or say something like, �I hate religious people and all religion� or take a quotation directly from the bible and make assumptions about people and the followers.
Most people don�t seem to understand that the three religions that descended from Abraham, (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) are, in hindsight, relatively peaceful cultures and religions � focusing on giving and helping without question.
I�m a rather vocal Atheist too, I like to voice my beliefs, and people like to tell me to get out of �their� school. It�s quite annoying. I don�t force my beliefs on anyone, and I never will.
Nicole
on June 26, 2008
at 08:10 AM
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Someone made a comment earlier in the thread that I thought summed it up beautifully. "History is littered with abandoned Gods."
In the grand scheme of human history, the last 2000 (or so) years of Christianity, Judaism and Islam as the dominant world religions is really just a tiny slice in time. No doubt, they will eventually be replaced with something else.
The Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaton (Father of King Tut) is actually the first known example of practiced monotheism (belief in a single deity) in recorded history (1300 years before Christ). He was a rebel King who broke away from the entrenched polytheistic practices of the Priests in Thebes, and set up his own religious complex in Amarna.
It didn�t take hold until over 1000 years later, but the monotheistic core of Christianity was not a revolutionary concept.
Tamara
on June 26, 2008
at 07:14 AM
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I am essentially an atheist, but I would rather term my perceptual filter as relativistic scepticism.
I have a modest IQ of 155, and my peers of similar or greater capacity have seen the lies and vile putrid BS of Christian beliefs, and to extend, the lies promulgated by most of society's institutions so that they may profit from us in some manner.
My dumb acquaintences, or the ones with no wisdom or insight despite adequate analytical abilities, typically believe in the manufactured concept of Jesus as God, et cetera. They are not smart enough to transcend their emotions, desires, societally implemented expectations, and especially the perceptual limits of their own minds. They can not see the magnificent truths of reality because they don't dare to leave the comfort of the little box they keep their minds in.
Belief in a fabricated concept that hijacks our simple emotional circuitry = stupidity, gullibility, and general worthlessness.
The ability to see beyond society and ourselves, and to know that Jesus was merely a good man = intellect, insight, and quality of person. I have no time for dime-a-dozen worshipers of concepts and believers in falsehoods. They are so blinded by that which they think gives them sight that even the simplest truths make little sense to them, and it is infuriating.
To sum it up, Religion is for the weak. Those who don't need it thereby demonstrate their significant cognitive strength, which is an essential quality in people I care to associate with.
Stephen
on June 25, 2008
at 07:50 PM
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to you who Posted by Josh Taylor on June 25, 2008 03:52 PM.
Hello my friend, you are right RELIGION is laughable.And the professor is also right, intelligent people dont fall for religion.Religion is man made. Intelligent people fall in love with the ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, WHO SENT HIS ONLY SON JESUS TO DIE FOR OUR SINS. Accepting HIM makes you the most intelligent of any bunch.
Dele
on June 25, 2008
at 05:34 PM
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I think that this article is good. The fact is that intelligente people dont favor religion, because its an authority that applies pressure on people regardless of their individual needs. I feel sorry for people who are tied up to religion and have to obey faithfully. Its time to move-on and let the science be our new way of life. I am an atheist. But I admit that people have some type of spiritual needs because we are spiritual beings. Nevertheless our problems cant be solved by fictional characters and by readings that speak about shepard and sheep. If people 500years ago could listen to this it was because they didnt know so much about the world as we know today. But if someone speaks to me about sheep today I think he is totally insane. I think religion is a sabotage and people should be afraid not of the devil, but the religion itself. Not to mention that even people who are in the church turne their back on gods words.
In conclusion: There are people who are atheist and yet live a life that has a meaning and fight for that meaning. On the other hand we have people who are shallow and weak not because they belive, but because they dont act what they belive.
How can people say they belive in God when they dont even come to church on time?
is my name
on June 25, 2008
at 05:33 PM
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Sorry, but I'm still laughing hysterically at people who seem to have some warped idea that intelligence and education equals ignorance...HAHA...ohhh, you religious folk crack me up. I'm an atheist (if you weren't so ignorant/delusional to have not noticed), and seriously religion is a laughable excuse for living; it's plainly pathetic. Sometimes it actually leaves me speechless to think that people nowadays are STILL persuaded (somehow) into what I like to call "Collective Insanity" (Religion by the way; for the lower IQ's amongst the population). And another thing, you religious excuses for life, don't dare call scientists and atheists ignorant, or tell THEM to "wake up", because seriously, comments like that coming from people of FAITH make a laughing stock of you. Religion is an embarassment of human existance.
Josh Taylor
on June 25, 2008
at 03:52 PM
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Not surprising, from a social group who only requires one book in order to answer all of life's mysteries. Who didn't see this coming? Now I'm sure they'll be upset about the fact that members of the scientific community are on to the fact that most of these people said, "math is hard", and gave up on learning. Then, they chose the easy solutions/assertions proposed by men who thought the world was flat, instead of modern science. It makes sense, as it doesn't require critical thinking skills to accept religious doctrine. Critical thinking rules religious doctrine null-and-void. Besides, not many of these people actually obtain a degree in science anyway, so all of this flies right over their collective heads. They can't understand it. Maybe we should ask them why their "oh so benevolent God" cheated them so badly on their mental equipment. Does the Bible answer that? Doubtful. So, now we'll have an irate mob of religious people, angrily lashing out at things they don't understand. Funny how history repeats itself so often. And judging by the grammar, spelling, and punctuation of the pro-religious comments below, I'm not that far off the mark. Some of these people can barely write, let alone understand cognitive science. The evidence speaks for itself.
mister science
on June 25, 2008
at 03:39 PM
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It seems that only people who do not understand science, or the scientific method, call those who do, "arrogant" and "egotistical". In understanding how science generally works, it seems science has socially evolved past these peoples' capacity to be able to understand their world. Or, in short, they've been left in the dust, and they're bitter about it. In the end, though, their social and cognitive stagnation is their own fault. And they should ultimately be upset with themselves - not those who continue to try to learn about our world. Great article!
voice of reason
on June 25, 2008
at 03:31 PM
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To Scott - if your neighbours house was on fire, you would tell/warn him "assuming your a good person". Its the same with physical and spiritual things. "Belivers" warn the unbelivers. The things we see now are temporal, the things of the sirit are eternal. NOW, WHEATHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT, POPLE DIE and will face GOD - The whole notion that "once you die, thats it and you cease to exsist" should rather frankly make uncomfortable/wondering/be bothered. What would be the point if that was all. WHAT? So if you live your life like theres no tomorrow and later realise/find out that there is and you failed to bank/invest in tommorrow "eternity" you will hate yourself and there will be no turning back, if you could kick yourself in the butt hard you would i tell you. stop shooting the messenger, just simply LISTEN to the KING. As much as HE loves you and died for you, HE is a HOLY GOD and WILL NOT LOWER HIS standards for anyone. HE says HE even honours HIS WORD/LAW more than his NAME. thats why HEs fair and just. so the ball is in your court......!
Dele
on June 25, 2008
at 12:58 PM
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To you who Posted by Saladin on June 25, 2008 06:44 AM.
My friend you miss the whole point. God will not force you to love him, as a matter of fact HE is looking for those who would love HIM, HONOUR and obey HIM out of FREE WILL. The truth is Heaven is not for everyone, even tho it was made for us all, many have chosen a path to destruction. And on jugdement day "and there will be a judgement day - THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT" unbelievers who chose RADICALLY to disprove HIS existence, break every commandment HE gave us out for love for us for order sake,will only have hemselves to blame. People say "if GOD is so good why would HE throw anyone in HELL" the truth is we make our choices and it is becos HE is good that HE must "has too" uphold eternal law - that what makes him a righteous Judge. HE IS A GOD OF TRUE JUSTICE.Try breaking the law today and see if mans earthly laws wont lock you up. HOW MUCH MORE GOD?
And becos HE knew we would mess up thru sin, unbelief and other worldly religions anyway, HE made a provision to save us all from the wrath of sin by dying in our stead, that through receiving HIM we might live and have eternity with HIM in his kingdom. When the first man fell, HE contaminated our blood linage with sin, JESUS had to go through so much suffering with HIS pure blood to pay the price for you and I. It is only wise and prudent that you consider this truth and fact.
Dele
on June 25, 2008
at 12:19 PM
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Hey Dele.
Love him more than my mother or father? Sorry, but no matter what kind of wonders he promises, I don't see that kind of affection being concentrated from me on a thing I never have (or never will) meet. Something that's always bugged me about structured religion is its threat system. If you're trying to prove a point to us that he does exist, he is all-loving, telling us that we're screwed if we don't kiss his a** isn't a very good way of being persuasive.
Saladin
on June 25, 2008
at 06:44 AM
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Dele, you said that you shouldn't just read one book and believe it "Wake up - smell the coffee- you read one book "The God Delusion" and you take it to heart and believe it". So, we shouldn't do the same with the bible it's just one book that says the writer of the book exists, you shouldn't just take the word of one book to heart. And actually you got it backwards, trying to prove god is like trying to disprove gravity. also, just so you know, quoting the bible doesnt make god more real, it just proves that you are completely brainwashed by a book. And just a little something to think about, Christians may be the most hated because they are trying to force their beliefs on everyone.
Scott
on June 25, 2008
at 06:43 AM
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My only criticism of this study is that it is entirely unnecessary. Belief in something so grotesquly illogical is more than enough evidence of low intelligence.
Jesse Forgione
on June 24, 2008
at 05:54 PM
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Hilarious,
Isn't IQ a man made measure of intelligence. As a member of MENSA, I've been exposed to scores of "genius'" who are completely inept in other aspects of life outside their field of study. I equate these "intellectual elite" to Hollywood celebreties believing their craft gives them entitlement. Also, consider the politics(as well as joining fees) involved in becoming a member of the Royal Society and the American National Academy of Sciences and one has a greater understanding of what pompous, arrogant windbags the members of these groups are. Try having your heart stop for 4 min and 53 seconds, describe what you see and you may come away with a more firm belief.
Mark Winkelmann
on June 24, 2008
at 04:51 PM
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I would suggest that there is a close correlation between security/wealth and likelihood of belief in God. An acadmeic person is likely to feel confident of their standing in the world and their ability to explain & reason many things. It is also likely that an academic person has a secure life - a relatively well-paid job and therefore the material benefits that come with this. When a person feels intellectually and materially secure they are not being forced to confront some of the harsher realities of life and there is no perceived need to ponder on questions of existence and purpose. I consider IQ to be only one of many factors which may influence an academic's belief/non-belief in God.
Furthermore - is it a correct and balanced approach to regard the opinion of one minority group as a yardstick for the whole of society?
Joanna Fleming
on June 24, 2008
at 03:52 PM
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Of course the professor is right. I had a IQ index oh 45, and from the moment I left the religion, my IQ automatically climbed to 210.
Orlando
on June 24, 2008
at 02:57 PM
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I think, ultimately intelligence has little(if anything) to do with a persons religion. I'v known some athiests whos reasons for disbelieveing are just as stupid ignorant as religious fundies.
Andrew
on June 24, 2008
at 11:14 AM
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We live on a blob of rock and metal that is hurling through space around a ball of fire. On this rock is a thin layer of biological scum, which we are a product of...there is no mystic, no magic, simply Science at work. Science is the truth.
Case in point: Years ago the greeks thought thought everything that could not be explained was the result of some intervention by some pissed god. Come to learn a thunder storm is simply science...not some fake, made up, angry god...sorry everyone..someday 5000 years from now...the believers will be proven wrong too...oh by the way, the world is round too...so feel free to go on a cruise, you wont fall off...
Carl Sagan
on June 24, 2008
at 11:00 AM
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I support Professor Richard Lynn.
agni
on June 24, 2008
at 06:15 AM
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THE REASON WHY INTERLECTUAL PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY NOT TO BELIEVE IN GOD IS SIMPLE.PRIDE! PRIDE IS THE BIGGEST BARRIER FOR ONE TO FIND THE TRUTH OF WETHER A CREATOR EXISTS OR NOT.JESUS SAID AT MATT 18:3 UNLESS YOU TURN AROUND AND BECOME LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN YOU WILL NO MEANS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS"HERE IS ANOTHER SOBERING THOUGHT FROM THE BIBLE AT MATTHEW 11:25 JESUS SAID: "I PUBLICY PRAISE YOU,FATHER LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH,BECAUSE YOU HAVE HIDDEN THESE THINGS FROM THE WISE AND INTELLECTUAL ONES AND REVEALED THEM TO BABES" THE BIBLE SAYS WITHOUT GODS SPIRIT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMPREHEND BIBLE TRUTH. GOD SEARCHS THROUGH PEOPLES HEARTS TO SEE IF ANY ARE RIGHTLY DISPOSED TO GIVE THE GIFT OF EVERLASTING LIFE IF SO HE GIVES HIS SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING WHICH ACTS LIKE A KEY TO UNLOCK BIBLE UNDERSTANDING.IF SOMEONE HAS SOME HAUGHTY OR PROUD ARROGANT SPIRIT HE IS EFFECTIVELY SCREENED OUT OR BARRED FROM EVER HAVING ANY INSIGHT INTO UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE.THEREFORE HE RIDICULES WHAT HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND.2 PETER 3:3
KEN MARK
on June 23, 2008
at 10:30 AM
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Religion
Religion is only a primitive machination by Man to command, suppress and exploit others, to which only life forms that are weak in their consciousness succumb.
When Man indulges in his religions, i.e. malevolent, erroneous doctrines, his consciousness wastes away more and more and ultimately leads to a bottomless abyss.
God
God is not Creation but only one of its creatures, like all creatures who are dependent upon Creation.
A god is only a governor as well as a human being who powerfully or dictatorially reigns over his fellowmen.
But Man follows his erroneous religious beliefs and claims that God is Creation itself.
Man may recognise that a god can never assume the role of Creation or decide over Man�s destiny.
[Man] goes even further and [incorrectly] claims that a normal human being by the name of Jmmanuel, who has also been called Jesus Christ through conscious error, is God�s son and Creation itself.
Message translated from Billy Eduard Albert Meier's work
Carla
on June 22, 2008
at 03:16 PM
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I FULLY SUPPORTED TO THE ABOVE SURVY TEAM OF PROF. RECHARD LYNN
bv koteswara rao
on June 21, 2008
at 08:25 AM
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How can one poorly defined survey lump a valid rejection of the bureaucracy that religion is with a disbelief in the Creator without properly defining it? Religion (of any faith) has lost most of the teachings that showed how the Creator communicates to humanity via the use of dreams and visions, due to bureaucrats not knowing how the process works. Everyone dreams. Few people have learned to use that ongoing source of guidance that actually represents the Living Word. Intelligent people can easily see the fascism in religion. Yet some of them actually use their dreams as a source of their creativity, like Einstein, Edison and a long list of others in science, and in the arts. That same Source provides us a view into the future (and some of it is a very distant future as prophecies have shown.) (If you want examples of an emerging reality few people are going to like, write me.)
Most self-proclaimed atheists are simply against religion, and lack enough knowledge about what constitutes the means by which everyone is spoken to by God to form a proper opinion. Fault religion for that. Religion is the politics of a system of belief, and has nothing to do with the belief itself or the communication the Creator provides.
Alan Harmony
on June 20, 2008
at 11:10 PM
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Hey Dele,
I think the iq thing was referring directly to you....
btw, a bunch of guys wrote the bible... not your or any god.
try to escape the box
Mike Bloom
on June 20, 2008
at 09:55 PM
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GOD doesn't believe in athiest.
National athiest day - April the 1st.
Dele
on June 20, 2008
at 06:25 PM
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Religion has helped shape the society we live in, it has also has led to more prosecution than any other device in history.
I am an engineer and an atheist. I do believe that IQ and education (which largely follows IQ) plays a large role in decision making in every aspect of life, especially faith.
Knowing the scope of our universe alone is enough to dissuade the most arrogant 7 day central human creation bullshit believer.
Mike Bloom
on June 20, 2008
at 06:24 PM
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To you who Posted by BadSyntax on June 19, 2008 09:42 PM.
You sound like a satanist. And like I said, good luck and my condolecences to you who is one hundred percent sure God exists not, but in your case it seems more like you are simply just rejecting HIM. Wake up - smell the coffee- you read one book "The God Delusion" and you take it to heart and believe it, but challenge the authenticity of the BIBLE. GOD CAN PROTECT HIS OWN WORD. IN FACT HIS WORD IS ALIVE. funny how you dont mention or challenge the other thousands of "man made demonic inspired religions of this world". In all the world the most hated people are christians - you know why? Worldly people cant stand the truth - to their own detriment. You need repentance desperately in your life. The love of GOD is free and available to us all. Stop picking random scripture pssages widout understanding them, you do yourself and others who listen to you a very great disfavour. Here is a cross reference to your luke 14:26 quote - Matthew 10:37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
Which simply means and am sure you know this scripture - luv the LORD you GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. If you trying to disprove GOD, ITS LIKE TRYING TO DISPROVE GRAVITY. Heres an idea, try talking to HIM. He answers, HE is a person - who has a greater capacity of feeling than you or me.
Dele
on June 20, 2008
at 06:11 PM
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As a former agnostic, professionally trained, late-in-life "mere Christian", I am delighted to be associated by this study with the lesser mortals.
Michael
on June 20, 2008
at 05:34 PM
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Primitive people more likely to believe have primitive delusions!!! Wow Didn't see that coming.
Dan
on June 20, 2008
at 05:34 PM
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Further to my previous comment: At the same time, I agree with another commenter (#253) who wrote:
"even those of average intelligence are able to grasp the gross contradictions of faith and reject the mythologies of religion given only a modest education."
I think the "mythologies of religion", a.k.a. "dogma", i.e. the trappings of religion, are what educated people increasingly reject, not the "mere" existence of a "higher power", "intelligent universe", "deeper meaning to life", "power of Love", "underlying force behind all things", "Cosmic Consciousness" etc., all of which terms could be added to the Many Names of God used by we humble mortals as we try in vain to define He-She-It. The most advanced physics points to the existence of something else that we cannot see, to the power of Consciousness. It takes a more advanced "intelligence" than is commonly measured on IQ tests to encompass these larger, multi-dimensional realities without resorting to the "mythologies of religion" or "dogma". Collectively, however, we are advancing in this direction.
Heather
on June 20, 2008
at 04:30 PM
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What the professor is defining as "intelligence" is not an innate characteristic of human beings, but a product of their education, if, indeed, children become more "intelligent" with time. All this says is that people immersed in our culture and education system - which are particularly secular - tend to lose their earlier belief in God. No surprise. It has nothing to do with innate intelligence, which is quite another thing.
Heather
on June 20, 2008
at 03:01 PM
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Pat - it is the atheist that needs to wake up. Only when one wakes up can one begin to see God (try George MacDonald - CSLewis major influence). And I'm sorry but 'most likely' is not a causal connection (people who smoke don't get dementia because they're dead). There is no causal connection between intelligence and non-belief in God, as I think we all agree. So what does cause non-belief? The most likely candidate in the 'educated' (or ignorant) developed world is wealth. In other words all this statistic shows is that our insulation of comfort has succeeded in separating us from reality and not vice-versa.
George
on June 20, 2008
at 10:21 AM
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Dele, your post is the perfect example of what I was referring to. It's so long-winded and preachy that I can't be bothered to read it all and anyway it really doesn't matter to me what you think, because it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. It's all about perception. The difference is that you believe what you have been told and I don't have a problem with that. But you obviously have a big problem with anything that doesn't fit with your view or what you're told in a book. There is a chance isn't there that it may not be fact?
You are quite entitled to your PERCEPTION.
I consider myself to be a spiritual person, but I certainly don't agree with organised religion. That is where I believe most intelligent people make a distinction. Just my opinion.
Darren
on June 20, 2008
at 07:01 AM
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Dele, your post is the perfect example of what I was referring to. It's so long-winded and preachy that I can't be bothered to read it all and anyway it really doesn't matter to me what you think, because it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. It's all about perception. The difference is that you believe what you have been told and I don't have a problem with that. But you obviously have a big problem with anything that doesn't fit with your view or what you're told in a book. There is a chance isn't there that it may not be fact?
You are quite entitled to your PERCEPTION.
I consider myself to be a spiritual person, but I certainly don't agree with organised religion. That is where I believe most intelligent people make a distinction. Just my opinion.
Darren
on June 20, 2008
at 07:00 AM
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hahaha so it wasn't wrong that I felt a little bit of despair when I found out someone I admired was christian?
and as for question 253: this research is aimed more directly at monotheism, which the greeks were not. not to mention science was primitive back then so there was little to disprove of their beliefs in the ways of how the world works.
RIRRIAN
on June 19, 2008
at 11:05 PM
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"Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1)
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" (Luke 6:37)
Ya know, I absolutely *hate* religious people for many reasons. I went to bible school as a kid, and on my own learned of all the atrocities that people of *all* major religions have perpetuated throughout history in the name of the god they believe in. I really don't care what you believe, as long as you do it in the privacy of your home. Organized religion is the worst thing humanity has ever created, and has sure killed more.
Oh sure, you bible thumpers will say crap like "I'm lost" or "I'm going to hell", blah blah blah, but you have ZERO proof, and I say this one quote:
"If everybody can't be right, and MILLIONS of people believe YOUR god is total bullcrap and their god is the true god, how can ANY religion, in any way, be factual?"
That is my own quote, but now, for people who are just too retarded to see the world for the way it is, and feel the need to create an imaginary friend so they can feel their life has meaning, here are some quotes from that great bible you worship, to show up just how screwed up your religion is (taken from evilbible.com):
If you don't hate your parents, you can't be a christian:
"If any man come to me, and not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sister, yet, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26)
God just loves human sacrafice:
"Take your son, your only son, yes, Isaac, whom you love so much, and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)
I guess we need to go kill a few BILLION humans:
"You must kill those who worship another god." Exodus 22:20
Hows about lets not have any laws:
"But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"-- Matthew 5:39
I sure hope you don't call your "dad" "father":
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" --Matthew 23:9
Better not make plans:
"Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or that ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on... Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, not gather into barns; yet your heavenly father feedth them. Are ye not much better than they"" --Matthew 6:25-34 & Luke 12:22-31 inclusive
There goes the bacon:
"Eating pork is forbidden" (Deuteronomy 14:8).
Who needs pork, when you can just eat your kids?
"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." - Leviticus 26:30
I won't even go into the HUNDREDS of contradictions in the bible.
This one is awesome, if you have a single "non-believer" in your town, kill the whole town! woohoo, anarchy!
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
I'm sure all you christians are guilty of this, lets kill all who work on sunday! (Assuming the sabbath is sunday):
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Lets kill everybody with crappy parents:
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
Now, I give you these quotes as they are from the same book you say is law. Ok, now is the time people say "don't take it literally"... well that being the case, what kind of follower are you if you just pick and choose what rules of god you follow? How can you believe in a book with so many errors, when if a single history book said the holocaust was faked you'd instantly throw it away? Heck, I bet the Lord of the Rings trilogy doesn't have this many errors, yet I sure as hell won't worship Aragon (Liv Tyler perhaps, but that is another story).
That was a quick sampling, but basically if god exists, and the bible is fact, god is worse than satan, he has killed MILLIONS, while satan only a few, wtf is up with that?!?!?! Assuming god exists, he is a horrible, evil, vindicitive, mistake prone individual who needs to stop meddling with stuff because he isn't very successful. Heck, why do they keep revising the bible??? Why don't they acknowledge the dead sea scrolls? Why do you have to GIVE MONEY to worship some great and holy god, can't he just make his own, and rain gold down upon his followers?
Don't even get me started on ID, its freaking stupid, you can see EVERY day in nature proof that evolution is true. Just need to open your eyes and LOOK. I'm actually quite curious on why evolution is still a theory when its so obvious its a fact.
I would love to tell you all to read "The God Delusion", which made me realize just how absolutely silly all religions are, but its pretty hard for a typical person to understand. While pertinent, he is a super smart guy, and some of the analogies he uses I'm sure most god believing folk would find just too complex to grasp.
I can hate religious people, as they negatively impact my life. Aetheists don't negatively impact my life. Religious people tell me what to say, what to watch, what I can do, what is legal, etc, etc...
Religion is for people who can't seem to grasp that in the grand scheme of things, that their life really doesn't matter and when they die there is nothing else, that is what I'd avoid telling the poor loosers of the world to keep them in check, else they may overthrow the church/government/etc!
Freaking hypocrites. Prove *anything* in the bible, ANYTHING, and I may change my mind, but its just a bunch of stories written by a bunch of old guys hundreds, if not thousands of years after the events, if you believe that I have a bridge in the Sarhara to sell ya, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe any of that crap, and your an idiot for doing so without any proof. Hey, if you give me $1000 I'll give you back a BILLION, really, no kidding, what? you want proof? naah, have faith sucker, sheesh....
btw, I know my spelling/grammer sucks, I'm no rocket scientist and when on a computer 10+ hours a day you tend to not care about typos or grammar anymore. Correcting me on it, especially after this, would be pretty silly.
BadSyntax
on June 19, 2008
at 09:42 PM
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I'm astounded by the number of comments here and how many miss the point. The subject is that intelligent people are LESS LIKELY to believe in god. That does not imply that you have to be stupid to believe. It's a personal choice.
Imagine the enormity of this universe. The earth is a tiny insignificant blip. Humans are only one of the millions of species. Are we not insignificant? Isn't arguing about whether god does or does not exist pointless? Isn't it this very argument that is the main cause of war and social unrest?
One thing that has always puzzled me is how SOME religious people tell non-believers that they will burn in hell. Where is god's unconditional love there? Surely if we do or do not believe we should still be treated the same?
Darren
on June 19, 2008
at 09:37 PM
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Dele, your post is the perfect example of what I was referring to. It's so long-winded and preachy that I can't be bothered to read it all and anyway it really doesn't matter to me what you think, because it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. It's all about perception. The difference is that you believe what you have been told and I don't have a problem with that. But you obviously have a big problem with anything that doesn't fit with your view or what you're told in a book. There is a chance isn't there that it may not be fact?
You are quite entitled to your PERCEPTION.
I consider myself to be a spiritual person, but I certainly don't agree with organised religion. That is where I believe most intelligent people make a distinction. Just my opinion.
Darren
on June 19, 2008
at 09:36 PM
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I am not the greatest philosopher, but I understand that the majority of people need things to believe in, depending on their current life situation. If everyone did not believe in religion, society would lose many of the moral teachings that religion has to offer. I am not saying devote yourself to any religion, but take things from all religions that you feel you could use to better your life. Religion may be filled with different stories and beliefs, but it is up to you to develope a message from the material you read. The alternative is to not read any religious material and hold out until science poses an answer. This could be a long time, and if you are wrong, then what. So pertaining to intelligance, wouldn't you want to believe in something until science comes through for you? Or you can just bank on the fact that we are here to live out our lives for ourselves and we can do whatever we want, because there is no such thing as good and evil.
carl ludwick
on June 19, 2008
at 09:34 PM
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To the one who Posted by Darren on June 19, 2008 04:10 PM. My friend its clear, you have NO idea what you are really on about.I would advise you to go do some study about God, His nature and character before you open your mouth and say the things you say. Yes most definitely, God is love and / BUT, HE is HOLY. He has not dealt with us in the way we all deserve. I realise in this day and age it would be hard to comprehend or grasp this, its also why we all need the Holy Spirit. He has given us FREE WILL, to whom much is given,something is expected - obedience to HIS will and law. The problem with people to day is , they have been suckered in into this thing called Democracy. The problem with democracy is, everyone believes they have a voice and know what is right (funny how still we keep voting in the wrongest politicians to lead and control the country). With God there is no such thing as Democracy although He does say "come let us reason together" - this is possible in a place of intimacy.(relationship with HIM). KINGDOM is what THE LORD GOD is about. HE is KING over all the earth ,heavens and beneath the earth. HE is JUDGE and RULER of all things. HE is also our HIGH PRIEST, hence we can run to HIM when we have sinned or fallen short of his word / expectations. Read the BIBLE before you have an opinion. The problem with most people is they try to read the old testament and say "oh look, GOD is mean" the TRUTH is Christ has fullied the law of the old testament for us. You and I no longer live under the law, but now under HIS MERCIFUL GRACE -if you accept.(its not HIS fault if you dont).
For those who say 100% they believe there is NO GOD, I say to them, good luck, my condolences. But if you are having just 0.01 percent doubt about wheather HE exists or not I suggest you find out. Start to read the BIBLE from the new testament that way you will understand better the old, begin with the book of John -John ALWAYS refered to himself has the apostle who jESUS LOVES most, The truth being you we can choose to be the "apple of GODs EYE". WISPERED WORDS ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN SHOUTED PETITIONS. How I pray and long that you would let GOD into your life. He made it anyway, You belong to Him, call HIM DADDY / FATHER / POPS.
In the Kingdom principle, A KING IS REVERED. Look how the Queen is loved and respected by "most" people today. And shes only queen of this little island. How much more do you really think the KING, MAKER and MASTER of the Universe deserves your adoration, love and respect. You have no idea what He went through to make sure you are saved from His wrath when the Judgement comes. Dont ever get it twistwd there will be a JUDGEMENT. Just make sur you are on His side. It notr all about the fear of going to Hell. Its is love, that HE LOVED US FIRST and to be separated from HIM IS worse than hell. HE is LIGHT LOVE PEACE and SECURITY. HE is DAD.
Dele
on June 19, 2008
at 05:52 PM
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DUHHH, let me see,George, do I have this right, George? "IQ is essentially brain processing power, the higher your IQ, the more processing power you have."
DUHHH, Tell me, George, How does denying Jehovah God, without finding out and considering any of the facts present in his book which speak to his existence and infinite wisdom, Score on this IQ measurement? Huh George How does it score, George?
Oh, You know George, Like 3500 years ago in Leviticus the 13th chapter, where Jehovah God gave Moses a way to determine if a sore was only a sore or Leprosy. You know George, A way that is more accurate than any modern test science has given us! Huh George Huh? Or George like the laws Jehovah God gave Moses that provide unerring guidance around microbial contamination from foods, and provided for identification of what would cause contamination of food preparation facilities, food utensils, water supplies, water and food vessels and what to do to protect oneself should any of these things become contaminated? Huh ,George, Huh, and George all this some 3,300 to 3,400 years before anyone ever guessed there were little bugs crawling around no one could see! Huh George. Or George how about a simple behavior modification that is still the only 100% effective protection from what we know as social diseases? That's kinda good for a time when no one knew anything about Microbes? Huh George!
And George, there are multitudes of laws Jehovah God gave the ancient Israelites which protected them from things they could not possibly have known anything about.
Duhhh George Where does that man score on the IQ scale? You know George, the one that turns a blind to those things that are written down, proven, and come to pass. You know George, those things that are described that were not yet, but have become, and will be!
George, I don't think I want to score where he scores, 'cause George, he is blind, deaf, and dumb, and ,George, his wisdom is but foolishness to God.
Pat Hawkins
on June 19, 2008
at 05:14 PM
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Well why knot.
Ignorence is bliss,
look to Chris Weitz.
zakwest
on June 19, 2008
at 05:13 PM
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I'm astounded by the number of comments here and how many miss the point. The subject is that intelligent people are LESS LIKELY to believe in god. That does not imply that you have to be stupid to believe. It's a personal choice.
Imagine the enormity of this universe. The earth is a tiny insignificant blip. Humans are only one of the millions of species. Are we not insignificant? Isn't arguing about whether god does or does not exist pointless? Isn't it this very argument that is the main cause of war and social unrest?
One thing that has always puzzled me is how SOME religious people tell non-believers that they will burn in hell. Where is god's unconditional love there? Surely if we do or do not believe we should still be treated the same?
Darren
on June 19, 2008
at 04:10 PM
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Mostly the well educated and high society people are more athesit . But it all depends on one's thinking.
General Quiz
on June 19, 2008
at 08:06 AM
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What I think is absolutely hilarious about all of these comments is the complete failure to grasp that "less likely" doesn't mean "absolutely must." The conclusions are, in fact, that you can be intelligent and believe in God--it's just that more intelligent people tend not to.
ben
on June 18, 2008
at 04:43 PM
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Me IQ 148. God 100%. Critical thinking - always. Science + Theology degree (Cantab). Education - my life. You - fast asleep in your happy ignorance. ONE day you'll wake up - sorry.
George
on June 18, 2008
at 09:46 AM
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Why people die? Why someone dies early, while other dies later?
shahbaz
on June 18, 2008
at 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by banjo billy, ?Actually, intelligence gets in the way of faith. This may sound absurd but the fact is that intelligent people tend to rely upon their brains instead of relying upon their Minds.
The brain is just a processing center and is only a very small part of the Mind.
The Mind is greater than the brain and includes the entire body as well as the spirit and soul. The Mind can perceive the brain but the brain cannot perceive the Mind.
So, all of these so-called "great intellects" who are godlessly guiding society and destroying the world for their personal ambitions, unfettered by moral or religious persuasions are actually a bunch of road apples.
It's one of the curiousities of the Life: those who stand at the top of society are actually the real scum of the earth. And those who have humble faith and benvolence, are the real kings.
Belief in God is one thing that makes a Man different from an animal. So, who are these animals leading society into chaos??
1. ?Intelligence gets in the way of faith? Incorrect, Faith is belief in the supernatural. By definition of supernatural, it cannot be proven. You can be intelligent to believe in things that can?t be proven. One example could be human kindness. It?s intangible just like god.
2. ?This may sound absurd? If you must warn the reader of how absurd it sounds, we can agree that it most likely is absurd for you to bring up the warning. If it made perfect sense to you, it should to everyone else. We all rely on human logic. You aren?t above us intellectually, you arrogant prick.
3. ?The mind is greater than the brain? I don?t even know where to start on this one. It scares me that someone would make this argument.
4. ?The Mind can perceive the brain but the brain cannot perceive the Mind.? No matter how witty this statement is, I don?t see proof for it. I doubt you can prove it because your mind and your brain are the same thing. I can probably equate this with something else and have it sound absurd. Ex: The stomach can perceive hunger but hunger cannot perceive the stomach. (a normal person would find this funny.. I hope)
5.? Godlessly guiding society and destroying the world? I have three, count them, three words for that. George W. Bush.
6. ?Unfettered by moral or religious persuasions? I have morals. Just because I don?t believe there is an omnipotent being doesn?t mean I don?t know wrong from right. When a human falls down on the side walk, I would rush to his/her side and call emergency services. That has nothing to do with my convictions. The second part I could consider correct because I and not religious so I wouldn?t be persuaded by religion (a little redundant to mention the lack religious persuasions in regards to an atheist?)
7.? those who stand at the top of society are actually the real scum of the earth.? Wonderfully put. I have six words this time. Tony Blair and George W. Bush.
8. ?Those who have humble faith and benevolence are the real kings.? (I fixed his grammar and spelling on this one) Humble is a synonym for poor, modest, or low. Let us rewrite this sentence and chance the connotation due to his poor word choice. Those who have poor faith and benevolence are the real kings. I can?t argue with that. Brilliantly phrased!
9. ?Belief in God is one thing that makes a Man different from an animal.? Never mind the invention of electricity, the discovery of the heliocentric solar system which led to scientists to find that the sun did not orbit the earth and the orbits were elliptical, and every other discovery we?ve discovered or created. Due to our unyielding faith in god, we are distinguished from our brethren, animals. (Note that animals were also created by god according to religion and thus we are all life forms spawned from god, and that makes us all brothers)
10. ?Who are these animals leading society into chaos?? I?ll name one. Albert Einstein, prominent physicist, philosopher, and caring human being.
Banjo Billy, look into the history of the world. Who is the real antagonist? Who encouraged armed struggle against infidels during the crusades? Who forced Galileo into repenting his scientific data? Who stones women who are raped? Who straps bombs to their chests to please god and obtain virgins? Who believes that polygamy is the way to reaching god? I shouldn?t be asking who, I should be asking what. For me, all those answers are religion. Religion is ?leading society into chaos.?
A fustrated onlooker
on June 18, 2008
at 07:19 AM
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It's not my agenda to change peoples views on religion, but it is however, very easy to do. All I ever do is ask people to think about what they believe in and ask them why exactly they believe in it. When it comes down to it, the reason is because it's always what they've known and were forced to grow up with. If you were to teach a group of kids from birth that the sun is a demon that comes down to earth every Sunday and they must hide in a church or it will kill them, the children will believe and follow this. Same principal of racism. All you do is ask the person to think for themselves plant the seed, and in time they will realize that religion, god, and the bible is absolutely preposterous.
Dave Fike
on June 18, 2008
at 06:58 AM
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this person who did the survey isn't too smart, of course if you do a survey in a weak believing-in-religion country would simply shows smart ppl tend to not believe in god..
but smarter people however.. would believe in god, why ? cuz simply in this world, its soo easy to ask ANY SMART people that can't answer soo many questions.
bring me the smartest people on earth, and i'll give em questions they can't answer
Kungfu the legend continues
on June 18, 2008
at 06:51 AM
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banjo_billy: your thoughts on the subject are fascinating and intriguing. How can I subscribe to your newsletter?
M@
on June 18, 2008
at 06:45 AM
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I, being a non-believer myself, think that it is actually very obvious that people with higher intelligence would be less likely to believe in god. Think about it, the higher IQ you have, the more ability you have to reason out things and use logic, which applies to figuring out which things are probably less likely to be real, like god. For example, the 6 year old who was a genius could've reasoned out about Santa Clause by saying, "well, raindeers can't fly, despite what my parents tell me, and I don't think a big fat man could fit enough toys in one bag to give to all the children in the world, and yet manage to fit it down the chimney." Therefore he wouldn't believe in Santa, while the less intelligent child would not have the ability to figure these things out himself until he either got older or until somebody simply told him Santa wasn't real. The same thing applies to believing in god: people who have a better ability to reason things out (aka people with higher intelligence) would be able to reason out the existence of god, and push past what society tells them, while the less intelligent person couldn't do this and would therefore believe in god. This is just my take on the topic.
John Miller
on June 18, 2008
at 06:44 AM
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Actually, intelligence gets in the way of faith. This may sound absurd but the fact is that intelligent people tend to rely upon their brains instead of relying upon their Minds.
The brain is just a processing center and is only a very small part of the Mind.
The Mind is greater than the brain and includes the entire body as well as the spirit and soul. The Mind can perceive the brain but the brain cannot perceive the Mind.
So, all of these so-called "great intellects" who are godlessly guiding society and destroying the world for their personal ambitions, unfettered by moral or religious persuasions are actually a bunch of road apples.
It's one of the curiousities of the Life: those who stand at the top of society are actually the real scum of the earth. And those who have humble faith and benvolence, are the real kings.
Belief in God is one thing that makes a Man different from an animal. So, who are these animals leading society into chaos?
banjo_billy
on June 17, 2008
at 11:26 PM
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The "god" concept is in my humble opinion a manufactured make-belief which compensates for and defuses anxiety which stems from fear of the unknown.
jim christ
on June 17, 2008
at 05:41 PM
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The "god" concept is in my humble opinion a manufactured make-belief which compensates for and defuses anxiety which stems from fear of the unknown.
jim christ
on June 17, 2008
at 05:40 PM
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I think it is easy to see why those with a higher IQ are less likely to believe in a God.
IQ is essentially brain processing power, the higher your IQ, the more processing power you have.
Those with a higher IQ are able to come up with more reasons why not. Many eventually turn the corner of coming up with reasons why God does not exist and starting asking where is the proof of God's existence.
The higher your IQ is, the more reasons why not and the more questions for proof a person can come up with.
There is no proof of God's existence. This is indisputable. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the nature of existence and the nature of the universe. But God is not a legitimate answer to those questions because you need proof that it is in fact God and there is none.
Religious people do refuse to face that. Instead of being able to live with uncertainty and admit they do not know they instead choose to deny that uncertainty and choose to believe in God.
Bob F
on June 17, 2008
at 04:29 PM
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Worlds Oldest religion is Vedic religion, the contemporary branch of which is called Hinduism. I'm born and brought up in this faith and we still inherit all the scriptures from the Vedic religion.
******For your enlightenment, let me tell you that our Vedic scripture has perfect science in it. Be it astronomy or mathematics (google for Vedic mathematics). Ayurveda is the worlds oldest form of medicine. Yoga is another form. All are part of our Vedic Wisdom.
***********I'm shocked and appalled as I expected some amount of depth in knowledge and maturity from the westerners.
Preethish Nagaraj
on June 17, 2008
at 04:13 PM
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/HealthSci/Indian_scientists_firm_believers/articleshow/3130734.cms
Check this interesting survey about faith among of top Indian scientists.
Preethish Nagaraj
on June 17, 2008
at 04:12 PM
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Sorry all you agnostics, but the possiblity that we are all living within the matrix is far more probably than the magic of "god". This is about probablility. The inclination that we should give special weight to the existance of a god, just because a large number of people believe in it (for emotional and social reasons) does not increase the physical probablilty of it.
yes, we must accept the small probablility that god is real,(because we science and honest inquiry will can never assert 100% certainty) but that window of possibility is shared with the 'reality' of fairies, witches, dragons, santa claus and ghost.
All possibilities are not equal.
Grey
on June 17, 2008
at 03:19 PM
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I never really believed in any religion, never really felt a need for it. When I die I have no clue whatsoever on what's going to happen. I can live happily ignoring the issue.
There's one thing I'm pretty sure of though, it's that NOBODY else has a clue about it either. Those that say they know should learn that their faith is just one kind of mental coping mechanism or other that, knowingly or not, makes them fell better, gives them an illusionary purpose of life.
It's good that it makes them fell better but I think everything should be done to help them substitute those false beliefs simply because in many cases they are an obstacle to reason. Intelligence is what differentiates us from other animals and I think it should be the value we cherish most. Ethical issues should be settled through reasoning and debate not because it is in accordance or disagreement with a particular set of beliefs.
The fact that very smart people are less likely to be religious is a fact. To claim that they are atheist because they are very smart is a totally different claim, one that seems almost impossible to prove.
Assuming it's not their intelligence that allows them to be less likely to be believers, what is it?
mektwist
on June 17, 2008
at 02:47 PM
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Is anyone really in doubt about what this study signifies ?
Universities work to eradicate belief in people.
Instead they push inconsistent belief - and many "intelligent" people fall for it.
Example : universities push darwinism - eternal war for resources, fought, not for dominion or land or ... but to extermination
universities ALSO push non-violence
And they talk and talk and talk and talk and talk until you actually believe the 2 can be combined, even though one couldn't find a more convincing argument to the contrary than our recent history ...
Tom
on June 17, 2008
at 02:43 PM
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On May 13th the NYT published an article "The Neural Buddhists.
It states that science is moving away from hard-core materialism and embracing mysticism and gaining respect for elevated spiritual experiences.
It states that religion will be comming under criticism, but a belief in a transcendent power or God will be gain favor.
I guess there are two sides to every story.
pshift
on June 17, 2008
at 02:38 PM
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47. Posted by Lynn on June 14, 2008 07:31 PM
To all you intellectually superior non-believers who post twice: There is no need to click the post button more than once. Please read the sentence under "post your comment". You remind me of the Far Side cartoon of the gifted student who can't get through the door no matter how hard he pushes. Of course the sign says "pull".
53. Posted by Lynn on June 14, 2008 02:17 PM
To all you intellectually superior non-believers who post twice: There is no need to click the post button more than once. Please read the sentence under "post your comment". You remind me of the Far Side cartoon of the gifted student who can't get through the door no matter how hard he pushes. Of course the sign says "pull".
-------------------------------
Oh, I love irony.
Sie
on June 17, 2008
at 02:34 PM
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If you believe in synchronicity, I had just come to the same conclusion a few days ago that people who persecute palm readers and tarot readers such as myself as 'witches' are primitive in their intelligence and unable to reason beyond the perameters of the 'word of God'. It's sort of like the brothers outside of the busy commuter-rail station showing pictures of blacks who were hanged, and preaching death to the white man, and the whole time basing their argument on the King James version of the bible as if King James was a black man( haha).
LeBaron
on June 17, 2008
at 02:23 PM
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The sample is in part self-selecting. If you are a really bright intelligent person you have, at least, two options:
1. Go into science or
2. Go into the church
If you are an atheist the second option is closed to you. Both surveys mentioned involve asking people who decided not to become priests whether they believe in God.
Tony Lloyd
on June 17, 2008
at 12:43 PM
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I have an IQ of 679 and I don't believe in God, no, wait a minute,I mean EITHER 6, 7 or 9, can't remember now, what was the question again?
Damien
on June 17, 2008
at 10:10 AM
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One question that no one from church has been able to answer for me: Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? I think that settles it;)
K
Keith Knowles
on June 17, 2008
at 10:10 AM
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To quote for a moment:
"Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive, which - while we are trying to deal with very complex issues of religious and cultural pluralism - is perhaps not the most helpful response," he said."
I fail to see how it ISN'T primitive. Religion simply allows people to explain what they don't know how to explain scientifically. Cultural and religious differences have no bearing in the fact that by attributing something to a deity, you are simply stating that you can't explain it logically through your knowledge at that point.
thermo
on June 17, 2008
at 10:10 AM
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@Rabbit : "There is no more evidence of the NON-existence of God, than for his existence. Atheism is actually nothing more nor less than another faith based belief."
Your comment seems to be intelligent, but is rather foolish... Atheisme is a belief like 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby.
Peach
on June 16, 2008
at 11:34 PM
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Posted by Victor on June 16, 2008 04:36 PM
"Funny how we dont also discuss if the devil also is real. Whats your view point on that mr athiests?"
The devil, being another mythological supernatural being also does not exist. (Positive claim).
There is no evidence that the devil exists (neutral claim).
That would cover most atheist views on that.
Andrew
on June 16, 2008
at 11:32 PM
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@Rabbit : "There is no more evidence of the NON-existence of God, than for his existence. Atheism is actually nothing more nor less than another faith based belief."
Your comment seems to be intelligent, but is rather foolish... Atheisme is a belief like 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby.
Peach
on June 16, 2008
at 11:32 PM
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quoted from Alxander Raven: "The tree of life concept was not possible for wandering herding tribes, we had to have agriculture before the analogies were possible to conceive." hmmmm...Except for the wandering herding tribes who found the marvelous shade of trees they came upon and rested under and ate the fruits of. Ah, the "Tree of Life" which unfortunately we will not eat of until we have finished eating of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil".
Lynn
on June 16, 2008
at 09:01 PM
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The problem is that everyone is becoming defensive.
However the burden of proof does lie with the believers. Bring me conclusive proof of God and I will change my atheist views. The Bible is not proof.
Dizi
on June 16, 2008
at 08:06 PM
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While I don't think that belief in a higher deity has any bearing on intelligence per se, I think that unquestioning belief in irrational dogma does.
I also think the last paragraph in the article nails it; the causal link isn't that religion makes people stupid, but that stupid people are less likely to challenge convention, and so it has less to do with religion per se than it does with conformism. I think that lower IQs push people to adopt the 'safe' position of majority opinion simply because it's easier.
Finally, Sue Sims' post is pretty much spot on.
HP
on June 16, 2008
at 05:35 PM
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Greeks lived 2000 years ago an more. We live in 2008, a little great difference.
ps some recent studies report there is no evidence that Jesus really existed. But no one talks about it. Extraordinary example of intelligence.
Stefano faraoni
on June 16, 2008
at 05:16 PM
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quoted from Alxander Raven: "The tree of life concept was not possible for wandering herding tribes, we had to have agriculture before the analogies were possible to conceive." hmmmm...Except for the wandering herding tribes who found the marvelous shade of trees they came upon and rested under and ate the fruits of. Ah, the "Tree of Life" which unfortunately we will not eat of until we have finished eating of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil".
Lynn
on June 16, 2008
at 04:58 PM
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3 people are interviewed by police.
Person 1: I saw a man run down this alley.
Person 2: I was standing right here the whole time and would have seen someone but nobody came down this alley.
Person 3: I was nowhere near the alley at the time so I don't know - I have no way of knowing if someone came down the alley.
People not understanding Agnosticism could consider this analogy.
Sometimes the right answer on standardized test is that last choice of "Not enough information given". Those of us that feel this way think it would be just as presumptuous to say there isn't a god as to say there is.
Anyone
on June 16, 2008
at 04:41 PM
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It's unfortunate that the conclusion drawn by the article is that intelligent people are less likely to believe in god. This kind of logic does the scientific community a disservice as has been pointed out by other commentors.
Many have stated that the existence of god can not be proven. Why? Shouldn't an omnipotent, omnipresent being be able to reveal him/her/itself to us in a non-ambivalent way? If he/she /it wanted us to live our lives according to his rules then it would be easy to achieve. The simple fact that this has not happened outside of a 2000+ year old book that has undergone extensive manipulation over time suggests that either there is no god or that it is not in god's interest to reveal himself... the latter would make me seriously question god's motives.
I prefer basing my life on facts that can be observed or logically deduced. The whole point of science is that theories are stated, questioned, proven, disproved and revised all the time. True scientists never claim to hold the ultimate truth.
Religion does, and no questions asked.
Marc
on June 16, 2008
at 04:40 PM
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Hes done everything, He even spoke directly to the children of Isreal directly from Heaven and they were filled with fear and asked Moses to tell Him to stop. He even sent Himself in the form Of Jesus. The point is He will Never force Himself on you. It completely up to you to give The one who loves you more than life itself a chance to show you, teach you and walk with you. Your Choice. Wisedom is the principal thing.
Dele
on June 16, 2008
at 04:36 PM
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Funny how we dont also discuss if the devil also is real. Whats your view point on that mr athiests?
Victor
on June 16, 2008
at 04:36 PM
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quoted from Alxander Raven: "The tree of life concept was not possible for wandering herding tribes, we had to have agriculture before the analogies were possible to conceive." hmmmm...Except for the wandering herding tribes who found the marvelous shade of trees they came upon and rested under and ate the fruits of. Ah, the "Tree of Life" which unfortunately we will not eat of until we have finished eating of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil".
Lynn
on June 16, 2008
at 04:17 PM
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Francis Bacon: A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth man's minds about to religion.
A Guy
on June 16, 2008
at 11:51 AM
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I never really believed in any religion, never really felt a need for it. When I die I have no clue whatsoever on what's going to happen. I can live happily ignoring the issue.
There's one thing I'm pretty sure of though, it's that NOBODY else has a clue about it either. Those that say they know should learn that their faith is just one kind of mental coping mechanism or other that, knowingly or not, makes them fell better, gives them an illusionary purpose of life.
It's good that it makes them fell better but I think everything should be done to help them substitute those false beliefs simply because in many cases they are an obstacle to reason. Intelligence is what differentiates us from other animals and I think it should be the value we cherish most. Ethical issues should be settled through reasoning and debate not because it is in accordance or disagreement with a particular set of beliefs.
The fact that very smart people are less likely to be religious is a fact. To claim that they are atheist because they are very smart is a totally different claim, one that seems almost impossible to prove.
Assuming it's not their intelligence that allows them to be less likely to be believers, what is it?
mektwist
on June 16, 2008
at 10:44 AM
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T Garner said: "Agnosticism is the true intelligent position. It makes no claim of existence or non-existence of God"
This is nonsense - agnosticism is a position that nothing can be known, which is making a far more definite statement than an atheist who merely says that he lacks belief in god/s.
Alan Charman
on June 16, 2008
at 10:19 AM
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At one time in history no educated or uneducated citizen would step outside, shake a fist at the sky and say, 'Screw you, Zeus!'
'Up yours Shiva!'
'Piss off Buddha!'
I understand there have been gods worshiped that required human lives to be sacrificed routinely or else they'd get put off. Why did that practice stop?
How many millions of women were burned or tortured to death rooting out 'the devil'? Why isn't that practice still being carried out? It seems 62% of Americans still believe in 'The devil'.
This article does not express whether the idea of god was put forward in the notion of a single individuated omnipotent male character or some infinite cosmic web of intelligent love.
Many cultures worship the largest predator in their area as god, some worship the local food source. Island nations had sea gods. Live near a volcano... volcano god.
The tree of life concept was not possible for wandering herding tribes, we had to have agriculture before the analogies were possible to conceive.
The herd animals were worshiped before that, goats got the worst P.R.
Before we managed herds, the animals that were hunted were worshiped.
Intelligent people are able to believe some outlandish things.
There is also a psychological process humans go through when faced with information, even absolute facts, that allow us to deny and ignore the conflict between what we believe, what we want to believe, and what we know.
Belief, even absolute belief does not rely on truth.
Belief, or 'faith', does not require that you understand it.
While there are certainly things we may not understand due to lack of experience or knowledge, you can not understand something that is not true.
Try as you might.
You can certainly believe something that is not true, and yet, you can not understand a thing that is un-true.
Now, there are some pretty sharp minds rattling the 'god' idea around. Unable to understand it some cults have claimed god to be beyond understanding.
Convenient for them.
The Christian mythos has been so corrupted as to be nearly worthless.
In Aramaic, Yeshua's father Joseph was identified as 'a master of the craft' - the craft has always been alchemy, not carpentry. Ask your average good Christian and they believe, even say they KNOW, he was a carpenter.
Anyone just now thinking maybe invading Iraq was a bad idea knows we are not too hard to fool.
Perhaps this discussion would be better served with a definition of god involved.
Of course then there would be this finite approximation of something expressly undefinable by definition,
Dear Lord, save us from Your followers.
Alxander Raven
on June 16, 2008
at 09:17 AM
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we all speak about religion,
but is all about FAITH
U talk about IQ,have u seen that all people with big IQ became cracked
But let s put together IQ and FAITH-we all know about Solomon,we also know about al lot of antique scientist who afirmed that GOD exists!
May that GOD bless u all and open ur eyes!
ely862me
on June 16, 2008
at 07:22 AM
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Mike--"Agnosticism is the true intelligent position. It makes no claim of existence or non-existence of God (whatever that God might be.) Also, as a positive sidenote- it is the least offensive point of view."
I agree, and I also assert that I am one of the most intelligent persons in the universe, because I refuse to deny the existence of Santa Clause, fairies, Peter Pan, demons, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ares, Jupiter, CIA electrodes in my brain, Odin, WMDs in Iraq, intelligent life on Mars, etc--while of course I do not positively assert their existence either.
Tom Roland
on June 16, 2008
at 06:32 AM
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anything that exsist in this world has reason why it is created and for what purpose,
internet was created for so many different reasons
the sun shines the trees, the leaves, for a reason
also us humans.
if we don't do what we're created for, then we're might be thrown in to a junk by our creator
just like when we created things, and when our creations don't serve its purpose, we try fix em, try again, until we get to a point, then we chuck em in the bin :)
nancy
nancy
on June 16, 2008
at 06:30 AM
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I'm amused by the number of people commenting whose reasoning might be summarised as: "I'm brilliant, and I'm an atheist/agnostic, therefore this survey is correct". Or, conversely, "I'm ultra-intelligent, and I'm a Christian, therefore this survey sucks."
If they are that bright, they might realise that this type of study works on correlations, not equivalences. No one's saying that all bright people are automatically atheists, merely that there is a high probability that this will be the case. It is only a probability, and that means that there will be some very clever people who are believers.
However, there is a major problem with the conclusion (which I think the original survey didn't draw, but many posters here are assuming) that high intelligence causes absence of faith. It's the post hoc = propter hoc fallacy: one poster used, very appealingly, the analogy of ice creams and murders in a hot summer. If it were true that cleverness equalled atheism or agnosticism, then the existence of intelligent believers, from Thomas Aquinas to Cardinal Newman to Pope Benedict XVI, would be very hard to explain. In fact, anyone who's been part of the academic world will realise that scholars and scientists, like all humans, have a deep desire to fit in, to be one of the inner ring, to be admired by their colleagues. In these circumstances, the ruling ethos of the academe will pull in the great majority of academics. And the current 'ruling ethos' is, of course, a sort of soft atheism.
Basically, humans are largely sheep. Nor do they grow less ovine when their IQ passes 150; they merely become very clever sheep. Dawkins et al are always telling us that people only believe because they're brought up that way - indocrinated as children. While that's often true (certainly not invariably: I speak as someone raised as a Jewish atheist who became a Catholic ten years ago), they never seem to consider that adolescents and young adults are equally open to influence by those they admire.
So I'd suggest that Professor Lynn's results are quite accurate; but that the conclusions so many are drawing are illogical and - well, unscientific.
Sue Sims
on June 16, 2008
at 06:29 AM
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Rabbit, I hate to tell you this, but the burden of proof is obviously a concept that this Muslim woman has never heard of. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim that God exists. It is not on the person saying that he doesn't exist, because you can't prove a negative. It is Russell's Teapot all over again. There is no more evidence for the non-existence of fairies than there is for the existence of fairies. While we must remain strictly agnostic about fairies, you and I would both say that we don't believe in fairies. While technically, agnosticism is the safest choice, since you just admitted that there is no more reason to believe in god than not to, I think I will be comfortable not believing in him. He doesn't exist until you prove it, which nobody has done.
KFC
on June 16, 2008
at 06:18 AM
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have you ever willed of something and it didn't happen ?
well, theres a higher will then yours...
and that higher will is god's
nancy
on June 16, 2008
at 06:14 AM
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Agnosticism is the true intelligent position. It makes no claim of existence or non-existence of God (whatever that God might be.) Also, as a positive sidenote- it is the least offensive point of view.
Mike
on June 15, 2008
at 04:32 PM
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If belief is age-based and the relationship between faith and age is negative, would it not be expected that few Royal Society fellows would believe in God and more children would?
T Garner
on June 15, 2008
at 01:50 PM
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I do not believe that faith is directly linked to intelligence.
I rather feel that freedom is directly linked to intelligence.
Without freedom to think, develop and express beliefs, intelligence will be severely constricted.
Also using IQ as the sole measurement for intelligence seems outdated. A high IQ does not imply a high EQ.
Area57
on June 15, 2008
at 01:50 PM
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One of the most interesting things I have heard on the subject was aid by a very intelligent Muslim woman, friend as she destroyed a atheist with sheer intellectual brilliance.
The simgle point which did it in my books was this.
There is no more evidence of the NON-existence of God, than for his existence. Atheism is actually nothing more nor less than another faith based belief.
True intellectuals would have to be AGNOSTICS!
Merely by denying the existence of god, eliminates one as an "intellectual" as easily as claiming he exists.
Rabbit
on June 15, 2008
at 12:25 PM
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"intellectual elite"
well there is your first problem.
The "intellectual elite" is largely made up of morons.
Whilst intelligent people in my experience usually reject religion, they are also intelligent enough to separate the concept of god from the mumbo jumbo religious doctrine..
Rabbit
on June 15, 2008
at 12:16 PM
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In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, �I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will.�
Luke ch. 10 v. 21. Revised Standard Version (RSV).
Martin TURNER
on June 15, 2008
at 11:20 AM
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I personally don't believe in any predetermined god (Allah, Krishna or the Christian god) but I don't dismiss the possibility of a greater being existing.
Anyone who tells someone else he or she is stupid because of their belief towards whatever shouldn't even have a right to speak in the first place. Who can prove the existence of god? - nobody can - but you can't prove that a god doesn't exist either...
I think intelligence should be measured or based on what can be proven...
Derek
on June 15, 2008
at 10:49 AM
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To all you intellectually superior non-believers who post twice: There is no need to click the post button more than once. Please read the sentence under "post your comment". You remind me of the Far Side cartoon of the gifted student who can't get through the door no matter how hard he pushes. Of course the sign says "pull".
Lynn
on June 15, 2008
at 09:13 AM
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I am a full-fledged bible believing, 'Jesus is Lord' person and I wonder, "Why all the discussion?" Why be surprised that the more one is man-eduuuucated, the less he can put his trust in someone higher than himself.
Tom the believer
on June 15, 2008
at 09:13 AM
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This is another debate that calls the whole realm of religion into question and leads to violence. The point is that many wars are created because of beliefs.
thousands of years havent been able to solve a problem in israel/palestine over pretty much what god should be called. The only reason i can still believe in a god-type figure is because as a jew, i truly believe god's care towards out people lead us through countless holocaust attempts, some of which succeeded. Stories ive heard of the holocaust relate to stories of angels in the torah, so i can still believe
aa
on June 15, 2008
at 09:02 AM
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Intelligence may well be linked to religious beliefs, I won't dispute the research that has gone into this article. But what has failed to be addressed are possibles reasons for the connection. I may be biased, a strict Roman Catholic all my life, but I cannot help but feel us "religious types" are being brought down by those who simply decide that they should cover themselves on the off chance there is a "higher being" or deity of some description. People with an active, thought-provoking faith may be being misrepresented by these statistics.
Carmen Wilson
on June 15, 2008
at 09:02 AM
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Some things to realize:
--The study was only correlational, and any good psychology student will tell you that making such a sweeping conclusion from any one study would be a mistake.
--Philosophically, there are arguments for both belief in God and non-belief in God. This is completely different from believing in a personal God who listens to prayers and intervenes in day-to-day affairs.
--Matt Nadler, you're getting away from the point. Professor Lynn isn't asking whether there is a God. Science has left that question to philosophers. Lynn is asking who believes in God and why, and psychology is exactly the discipline to study this. While his methods are questionable by any good scientist, psychology's study of religiosity (as opposed to religion) is completely relevant. Social psychological studies have indicated that females more than males, rural dwellers more than urban dwellers, and uneducated more than educated people tend to be believers. So it's hardly the case that "naturalists," such as psychologists, "hardly bother to notice" the arguments for religion. The fact of the matter is that they aren't studying religion, they are studying people who believe and don't believe in religion, or religiosity. They can't help it if they're biased; the evidence has shown them that belief in religion is linked to certain developmental factors and characteristics. If the evidence starts to indicate otherwise, you can bet most psychologists will see fit to change their conclusions.
--Anyone who quotes Bible verses in order to frighten non-believers can save themselves some time. Obviously if someone doesn't believe in God, they don't believe that anything the Bible says is going to affect them much. If you turn out to be wrong, you can rub it in our faces when we die.
Kiera
on June 15, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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Go figure.
Emily C.
on June 15, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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Val Braten June 14 5_11
Where did the chemicals come from?
All atheists must by deductive logic believe that something came from nothing or they must believe matter always has been. Both are magnificent steps of faith.
If the atheists posting here are examples of the wisdom of the world then God have mercy on your souls.
As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord.
P Watson
on June 15, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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What a lot of comments, if you're reading this, you need to get a life!
I like Richard Dawkins postulate of 'memes'.
Like quantum theory and valence rings, there are strata of existence.
We might start with ideas, but I think we should start with quarks, atoms, molecules, the physical substrate. Then a quantum leap occurs when RNA comes into existence. That's the beginning of life "as we know it". Another quantum and strata is achieved when those living things can tell stories to each other. The stories live. Some of the stories live longer than you or I!
I believe the next strata is technological life. That may or may not spell the end of human existence. Humans might have to become 'trans humans' and some would say that has already started, in fact, it started before Ben Franklin invented eyeglasses, if that's what he did. From genes to memes to temes (technological memes)
Now let me cover my bets:
Hey Allah!
Hey Zeus!
Hey Jesus!
(at least it rhymes!)
John H.
on June 15, 2008
at 08:50 AM
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I am sure that this reporter has got something terribly wrong. For Professor Lynn's view, as articulated in his book DYSGENICS, is that average overall intelligence is declining due to the fact that intelligent people tend to have fewer children than the stupid ones. If this is the case, then the decline of religious belief during the same period cannot be causally linked to rising average intelligence. I am certain, though, that there is a link between intelligence and religious belief, but the decline of religious belief must have causes other than rising average intelligence, which is not happening.
Greg Johnson
on June 15, 2008
at 08:49 AM
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74. Posted by Floyd on June 14, 2008 08:04 AM
Very well said.
I was born Hindu, but now if I have to put myself in a category, I would say agnostic. Don't believe in god (if there is one, he wont be offended with small g) as defined by more religions, but don't either rule out a possiblity that there can be one such authority. Possible, but not yet proven, at least not by logical conclusion of facts collected so far, the language which most of us tend to understand. And which (logic) makes us believe that we are intelligent species.
Anyways, as Floyd already mentioned with better choice of words.
notion of god, world, religion or whatever exists inside you and only you.
and only as long as you exist.
Oh by the way, hope the following makes everyone happy:
"God made me and atheist(or whatever), who are you to question His wisdom."
Also, its funny to see when people are quoting their IQ scores, as if it is so authentic, and as if it adds any 'value' to their point.
They seem to believe more in IQ system than their respective gods or non-gods :).
Akshay Kumar
on June 15, 2008
at 08:49 AM
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74. Posted by Floyd on June 14, 2008 08:04 AM
Very well said.
I was born Hindu, but now if I have to put myself in a category, I would say agnostic. Don't believe in god (if there is one, he wont be offended with small g) as defined by more religions, but don't either rule out a possiblity that there can be one such authority. Possible, but not yet proven, at least not by logical conclusion of facts collected so far, the language which most of us tend to understand. And which (logic) makes us believe that we are intelligent species.
Anyways, as Floyd already mentioned with better choice of words.
notion of god, world, religion or whatever exists inside you and only you.
and only as long as you exist.
Oh by the way, hope the following makes everyone happy:
"God made me and atheist(or whatever), who are you to question His wisdom."
Also, its funny to see when people are quoting their IQ scores, as if it is so authentic, and as if it adds any 'value' to their point.
Akshay Kumar
on June 15, 2008
at 08:46 AM
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- I am like #61; I believe in a higher being/Creator/ or higher consciousness but not "God" or any religion; I'm not athiest either
- Also the Big Bang theory is a joke; at least the Evolution theory is believable but I'm not buying it
- I notice that some athiests are just like religious folk: they live on the word of science (Big Bang and Evolution) without ever questioning it; forgetting that these theories (scientific or not) themselves are just from people. If you're going to question religion then you got to question science also. Otheriwse it's useless
Basically neither impress me
Ayita
on June 15, 2008
at 08:45 AM
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I currently don't believe in god.
Would a non beliver turn to GOD when placed in a situation over which he/she has no control over?
Anthony
on June 15, 2008
at 08:43 AM
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"A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence, he claimed."
Interesting quote. I'd have to re-word that statement with the following:
"A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in self-absorbtion, he claimed."
Mark
on June 15, 2008
at 08:39 AM
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In the words of Bill Hicks, one of the funniest and one of the most intelligent men of the last twenty years:
"We all of one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively [god] there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves."
God exists, and we are it.
T Leary
on June 15, 2008
at 08:36 AM
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Atheists can be THE WORST sort of fundamentals, and are certainly elitist. They are even more convinced that they are absolutely right than most religious fundamentalist. Science and maths are man made measuring tools to map the universe, they are not the universe. Don't mistake the map for the territory. God can mean many things, and restrict it to archaic view of a man with a white beard sitting in the cloud only shows your own lack of understanding. Even to restrict God to the abrahamic faiths' view of it is to close your mind of to the far more likely possibilities.
Religion comes from religious experience, of people in deep trance states interacting with otherworldly beings who provide them with useful worldly information. People all of the world still continue to have these sorts of experiences, (see DMT: The spirit molecule, Supernatural, and many others). Religious experiences are always felt as deeply significant for the individual and usually create lasting positive change in an individual's life. It is religious institutions that turn an individual's personal experience with God into doctrine. I am both highly educated and intelligent, and realize that any view but agnosticism is arrogant, restrictive and most importantly completely unverifiable.
M Soltau
on June 15, 2008
at 08:32 AM
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This article makes more sense than anything I have ever read in any version of the bible.
Its 2008, if you believe in god, grow up. God is "make believe" like Spiderman and Jesus.
Nate
on June 14, 2008
at 07:36 PM
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What's new about that facts?
Psy-Punk, Germany
on June 14, 2008
at 07:34 PM
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God did not create man. Man created god to control primitive people with fear; essentially terrorism.
I'm glad that our intellectual superiors are becoming role models to rid our world of the horrible burden of religion. This is the next step of enlightenment for our species.
How could you ever base your morals on a book written so long ago? Why not focus on more relevant things?
God, heaven, sins, faith and the power of the bible only exist in the minds of those who refuse to think critically.
BTW, retorting with quotes from the bible only reinforces the fact that you have nothing intelligent to say.
Nate
on June 14, 2008
at 07:34 PM
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I absolutely believe this is true. I think it involves free thinking. There are intelligent people that are believers, but they don't question that which they are told. Free thinkers and intellects are quite obviously the people whom doubt religion, it's a wonderful thing.
Emily Kelly
on June 14, 2008
at 07:34 PM
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Some things to realize:
--The study was only correlational, and any good psychology student will tell you that making such a sweeping conclusion from any one study would be a mistake.
--Philosophically, there are arguments for both belief in God and non-belief in God. This is completely different from believing in a personal God who listens to prayers and intervenes in day-to-day affairs.
--Matt Nadler, you're getting away from the point. Professor Lynn isn't asking whether there is a God. Science has left that question to philosophers. Lynn is asking who believes in God and why, and psychology is exactly the discipline to study this. While his methods are questionable by any good scientist, psychology's study of religiosity (as opposed to religion) is completely relevant. Social psychological studies have indicated that females more than males, rural dwellers more than urban dwellers, and uneducated more than educated people tend to be believers. So it's hardly the case that "naturalists," such as psychologists, "hardly bother to notice" the arguments for religion. The fact of the matter is that they aren't studying religion, they are studying people who believe and don't believe in religion, or religiosity. They can't help it if they're biased; the evidence has shown them that belief in religion is linked to certain developmental factors and characteristics. If the evidence starts to indicate otherwise, you can bet most psychologists will see fit to change their conclusions.
--Anyone who quotes Bible verses in order to frighten non-believers can save themselves some time. Obviously if someone doesn't believe in God, they don't believe that anything the Bible says is going to affect them much. If you turn out to be wrong, you can rub it in our faces when we die.
Kiera
on June 14, 2008
at 07:32 PM
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To all you intellectually superior non-believers who post twice: There is no need to click the post button more than once. Please read the sentence under "post your comment". You remind me of the Far Side cartoon of the gifted student who can't get through the door no matter how hard he pushes. Of course the sign says "pull".
Lynn
on June 14, 2008
at 07:31 PM
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Choice 1: Life exists because complex chemical reactions gave rise to organisms which compete over resources and continuosly evolve on a trial and error basis.
Choice 2: Life exists because some old guy in outter space thought i would be nice and snapped his fingers.
Really, which one do you reckon is a better explanation?
val braten
on June 14, 2008
at 05:11 PM
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hi all people seeking 4 God
I recommend u 2 refer 2 scientific experimets done by Dr.micheal newton written in his book "journey of soul"s. I found what is God by it
alireza
on June 14, 2008
at 04:59 PM
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Honestly, I think this is a ridiculous and elitist. Greater thinkers and prolific people over the centuries have been well known for their beliefs in God, like Thomas Aquinas, John Wesley, even Newton believed in the existence of God, eventhough his views weren't christian. It is, as I said, a very ridiculous and selfish thought.
cesar santamaria
on June 14, 2008
at 04:06 PM
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With all due respect you need to be a little stupid to believe that there is a guy that lives on a cloud and is the boss of all things .
Look at all the major things that are happening in the world, if God really existed he would have taken care of business a long long time ago.
Smart people see that, dumb people looking for answers are grabbing the bible, it makes sense to me.
Dave
on June 14, 2008
at 03:13 PM
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I do not consider myself dumb nor highly intelligent either. All I know is God has saved me from death 3 different times in my life. Even the doctors could not figure the miracle cure of my illness out, only I knew for sure. I feel sad for those high IQ's who are going to be begging us dumb and dumber people in heaven "just for a drop of water to quence the burning" they will have to endure. Hey guys, you will be aware of your surroundings and you will feel pain, count on it. Put your brains to work and find Jesus, ASAP!!!
Don Cowan
on June 14, 2008
at 02:39 PM
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To all you intellectually superior non-believers who post twice: There is no need to click the post button more than once. Please read the sentence under "post your comment". You remind me of the Far Side cartoon of the gifted student who can't get through the door no matter how hard he pushes. Of course the sign says "pull".
Lynn
on June 14, 2008
at 02:17 PM
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"There is more hope for fools
than for people who think they are wise."
Proverbs 26:12
one of God's children
on June 14, 2008
at 02:11 PM
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The Question everyone needs to ask is to ASK YAHWEH (God)"Are you Really Real? IF you are, REVEAL YOURSELF TO ME, PERSONALLY". ("Ye have not because ye ask not, or ask amiss.") If asked in sincerity, Yah will ANSWER ("Seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you.") HE answered me, personally, revealing "I AM" in such a way that there can be no denial. His Spirit is IN me now and I have Eternal Life (Spirit) through Him. Col 1:27, "Christ IN us, the hope of glory." Why not ASK? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Tally Eddings
on June 14, 2008
at 02:10 PM
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Intelligent people ??? -Hmmmm think again
rania
on June 14, 2008
at 01:25 PM
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It is not so much that intelligent people are non-believers, they are more 'sceptical'. With higher intelligence more often then not comes a natural urge to ask questions, to not simply accept the things as they are but to want to understand it. This often (and especially in church dominated times) leads to clashes with the religious establishment. Naturally inquisitive and sceptical people have a strong tendency to turn their backs to people who tell them to think as they are told and just accept without question (which is what a large part of religion is about unfortionately). It does not mean that these people are actively atheists, just that they don't take the teachings of churches for granted.
In other words: a priest claims something, he better backs it up.
In past times the search for answers on both scientific and religeous questions more often then not took the same form. In modern days, these have become more seperated and largely becouse of various churches refusing to accept the most well proven facts (in the past for instance the fact that the earth revolves around the sun, in modern days things like the age of the planet). When religeous people deny such things without even the slightests form of evidence other then a single scource that has been orally coppied hundreds of times before being written down and copied and translated countless times, these sceptical people turn away from those religeous mainstreams.
So: are they religeous? probably not, at least not active; do they believe in God? well, most honestly do not know, a few do not and many do. Basically just like the ordinary person. The big difference is that they chose not to take their doubts to church and simply ignore the question since there is no definate answer and history told them to be wary of religeoun anyway (in past times, docters got burned for claiming the blood flows). Not to mention that it seems an acceptable means to convince people of 'your' religeon by threathning, either by force or eternal damnation. Since various religeons all claim that they are the only once being right, it still comes down to the individual choise and many of the so called intelectual elite just have not chosen who to believe and most are not easily persuaded to change their ideas becouse of a threath (in any form). If religeous people want to make believers out of those intelectuals they have beat them with agruements and by far most religeous people don't have the ability and/or the patience to even try. In such situations these people tend to oppose whatever is threathning them and in the case of religeoun that attitude results in a form of atheism. This hoevever does not mean that more intelligent peopel are active atheists but much more that they have prosponed the question and simply don't think about the existence of God. So with people who concider themselves atheists you need to ask the question of what they mean by that. There is a big difference between denying the existence of God and simply not assuming that God exists.
It is, in other words, not actual intelligence but more a natural urge to keep asking questions and remain sceptical and inquisitive. Those traits however do occur more in people as they are more intelligent.
Roepi-roepi
on June 14, 2008
at 01:16 PM
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Is there a supreme universal force? Probably. Is it sentient? Possibly. Does it give enough of a rat's buttock to intervene in the lives of a population of violent, greedy, fear-driven, egocentric primates infesting and destroying a miniscule planet orbiting a minor star in the boondocks of a second-rate galaxy?
Oh, please....
irMac
on June 14, 2008
at 01:13 PM
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Who cares what the study says? If you believe, fine. If you don't, fine.
Most of all, just be nice. :) Everyone should be able to understand that.
mypalal
on June 14, 2008
at 12:29 PM
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I can believe it. People who are more 'intelligent' will most probably have a lot of knowledge. Unfortunately many people who do though, have no room for a faith in God, thinking because they know so much they don't need Him.
Sally_Anne
on June 14, 2008
at 12:19 PM
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This says more about university academics separation from reality than about religious believers' IQ. In my year (at what the professor would call an elite university), the brightest and best were often believers. However, unlike the academics, they wanted to make a difference in the world and went off to be doctors, teachers and the brightest of all, a vicar. It reminds me of my favourite attempt to provide a ridiculous causal connection between two statistics: smoking reduces your chances of dementia (answers please)
George
on June 14, 2008
at 12:08 PM
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Emphasizing an irrelevant factor is a common inductive fallacy, and it is ironic that its use is so obvious and egregious here. As Dr. Lynch suggested, Dr. Lynn did not bother to show any causal connection between IQ and God-belief, he simply offered their concommitance.
If you go to fields where the rationality of theism is actually under discussion, i.e. philosophy of religion, you'll find theism holding its own as an intellectually defensible position. For evidence of this, just read atheist philosopher of religion Quinten Smith's "The Metaphilosophy of Naturalism." It points out that theism has actually been winning the intellectual debate in his circles, but that naturalists in irrelevant fields (including psychology) have not bothered to notice, but instead chosen to hold on to their biases and dismissive attitudes. Popular atheist books that have come out since that article (God Delusion, The End of Faith, and so on) have only supported Smith's conclusion, as such authors prefer to mock religion as opposed to deal with hard arguments.
Matt Nadler
on June 14, 2008
at 10:00 AM
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Yet another anti-religious study. I loath how atheists all act elite or superior.
I'll pray for my high IQ kin.
A
on June 14, 2008
at 09:59 AM
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Emphasizing an irrelevant factor is a common inductive fallacy, and it is ironic that its use is so obvious and egregious here. As Dr. Lynch suggested, Dr. Lynn did not bother to show any causal connection between IQ and God-belief, he simply offered their concommitance.
If you go to fields where the rationality of theism is actually under discussion, i.e. philosophy of religion, you'll find theism holding its own as an intellectually defensible position. For evidence of this, just read atheist philosopher of religion Quinten Smith's "The Metaphilosophy of Naturalism." It points out that theism has actually been winning the intellectual debate in his circles, but that naturalists in irrelevant fields (including psychology) have not bothered to notice, but instead chosen to hold on to their biases and dismissive attitudes. Popular atheist books that have come out since that article (God Delusion, The End of Faith, and so on) have only supported Smith's conclusion, as such authors prefer to mock religion as opposed to deal with hard arguments.
Matt Nadler
on June 14, 2008
at 09:58 AM
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Non-believe and education are causally linked, even the simplest research will demonstrate this,and it has been demonstrated over and over again, particularly in Gallup polls.
Why is this considered new news?
And I'd like to add that the comments here certainly reflect this. Does anybody other than fundamentalists think that others will be convinced by "evidence" in their scriptures?
Calvin Lawson
on June 14, 2008
at 09:58 AM
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Non-believe and education are causally linked, even the simplest research will demonstrate this,and it has been demonstrated over and over again, particularly in Gallup polls.
Why is this considered new news?
And I'd like to add that the comments here certainly reflect this. Does anybody other than fundamentalists think that others will be convinced by "evidence" in their scriptures?
Calvin Lawson
on June 14, 2008
at 09:58 AM
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I am a mathematician, let's do simple maths here: If M represents the modern knowledge and it is based upon reason R. Reason R is based upon set of reasons say R-1 and R-1 is based upon the set of reasons R-2. same argument continues and we reach to reason 1. CONT' please, see next posting..
Imran Baig
on June 14, 2008
at 09:58 AM
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Quran Chapter 12:
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
Imran Baig
on June 14, 2008
at 09:56 AM
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Please, read my previous posting that talks about reason.
Reason 1 is based upon which reason. We have to believe in a supreme being who is beyond our imaginations and who have given reason 1 to every thing we see. That reason 1 is the order of supreme being (Allah) who sent messengers to man kind to reveal his message.
Imran Baig
on June 14, 2008
at 09:55 AM
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This is ridiculous. You can't measure intelligence. IQ is inherently flawed and is at best a perception test. A degree is also flawed... I mean, heck, look at your co-workers or the political system. Some of the most intelligent people I've ever met didn't have a degree at all. In fact, I've known quite stupid Atheists, and quite smart Christians. I've also known Christians who were/are complete idiots and Atheists who were quite intelligent. Even if there was an accurate way to measure intelligence, using an exclusive group to measure it is ridiculous. I can't believe this 'scientist' gets paid for this crap.
David
on June 14, 2008
at 09:52 AM
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@Dave Scott
'Sorry' but the burden of proof must lie with those making the claim for something, otherwise should we take the ravings of lunatics as hard fact without evidence?
The simple fact is that there is, to this day, not one single scrap of evidence that supports the existence of 'god' or creationism but literally *mountains* of hard physical evidence that support rational explanations.
'Having a feeling' and phrases such as 'ooh that looks complicated' are not evidence.
1+1=2 whether you believe it does or not.
Simon M
on June 14, 2008
at 09:48 AM
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I'm god and I'll strike you unbelievers down. Now I wont have anything bad said about my son David Ike either.
God
on June 14, 2008
at 09:47 AM
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anyone with an iq of 136 and believes the bible to be 100% true is certainly in the 3.3% this article refers to and also clearly dumb(sorry to be rude but 100%?). there are so many logical fallacies in the bible let alone all the scientific fact that refutes remedial claims, let alone ones about virgin births and cosmic jewish zombies rising from the dead. do you also support stoning to death disobedient children and capital punishment for adulterers as Leviticus recommends? that would be part of the 100%
tom the turks friend
on June 14, 2008
at 09:47 AM
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There are two ways to become a non-believer in God.
One is to never have been indoctrinated. This is what is now seen in most of Europe and some other advanced nations (USA notwithstanding), where a whole generation is growing without the fear of God that so many of us remember from childhood.
The other way to become an atheist is through critical thinking. Even if one is subjected to religious indoctrination from early childhood, it is still possible for that person to grow out of it through rigorous observation, critical thinking and independent reasoning - something that we as a society value in all other areas of life with the exception of religious faith.
So is it really a surprise that people with higher IQs tend to believe in God in drastically smaller numbers - no. These are precisely the same people who are capable of exercising critical thinking for the most important question of all - what is the world really all about.
For those of you out there who haven't put religious teachings on a rigorous test of logic - try it. It is the most refreshing experience you'll ever embark on.
Petar Kralev
on June 14, 2008
at 09:45 AM
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anyone with an iq of 136 and believes the bible to be 100% true is certainly in the 3.3% this article refers to and also clearly dumb(sorry to be rude but 100%?). there are so many logical fallacies in the bible let alone all the scientific fact that refutes remedial claims, let alone ones about virgin births and cosmic jewish zombies rising from the dead. do you also support stoning to death disobedient children and capital punishment for adulterers as Leviticus recommends? that would be part of the 100%
tom the turks friend
on June 14, 2008
at 09:31 AM
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I am sitting here laughing my socks off. Today it's "bright people don't believe in religion", yesterday it was Terry Pratchett finds God through Alzheimers! Religion is just a form of brain disease. It's nasty, negative and life-denying. So, get over it!
Liz
on June 14, 2008
at 09:30 AM
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I could never consider some who believes in Church/God/Jesus an intelligent person.
It's as simple as this: you can never call yourself intelligent while believing in something that can't be proven.
When people are asked about something they can't explain, they proudly recur to faith. "My faith is strong". Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that one has not been proven formally and cannot prove formally. In short, it is belief in the absence of evidence. However, faith is taught as a virtue. How ironic is that? The virtue of believing in nonsense.
I suggest you to watch "Zeitgeist, the movie". It won't touch the most orthodox, but if you have but even a little bit of a critical spirit, you'll find real light.
Juan
on June 14, 2008
at 09:30 AM
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I could never consider some who believes in Church/God/Jesus an intelligent person.
It's as simple as this: you can never call yourself intelligent while believing in something that can't be proven.
When people are asked about something they can't explain, they proudly recur to faith. "My faith is strong". Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that one has not been proven formally and cannot prove formally. In short, it is belief in the absence of evidence. However, faith is taught as a virtue. How ironic is that? The virtue of believing in nonsense.
I suggest you to watch "Zeitgeist, the movie". It won't touch the most orthodox, but if you have but even a little bit of a critical spirit, you'll find real light.
Juan
on June 14, 2008
at 09:30 AM
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How smart can you possibly be if you are willing to believe that a cosmic jewish zombie who was born of a virgin and was his own father can make you live forever if you telepathically accept him as your saviour or symbolically eat his flesh so that he can drive away an evil spirit that you are conveniently born with because a woman that was born from a mans rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree? YEAH you're really smart to believe that one. I guess you are following every rainbow looking for the pot of gold. Get real.
Alberto
on June 14, 2008
at 09:29 AM
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I have never understood why those who believe in a god are so unwilling to let others choose not to believe. Most of us are perfectly content to let you keep on believing without our interferrence.
darcie
on June 14, 2008
at 09:28 AM
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Not only is there a God, but there is a merciful and loving God evidenced by the fact that He gives us, His creations, free will to deny Him with no immediate consequence. There must surely be an emptiness within which is filled with mere words.
Carol
on June 14, 2008
at 09:27 AM
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Ok. What this article is really saying is that Jesus is not intelligent. Some would argue that he was the most intelligent teacher in the history of the world.
Lynn
on June 14, 2008
at 09:27 AM
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I love these people who want me to get to know God.
Do you know him? Have you met him?
Of course not. The point I'm making is that God for you is what you want him to be. Thats all. You have no idea he exists in any form. No more than I do for that matter. You simply CHOOSE to believe in him.
You believing in him does not make him real for everyone. Like we should praise a God that exists in your head.
If you have trouble understanding that, you probably believe. Your brain will stop hurting shortly.
DB BD
on June 14, 2008
at 09:27 AM
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I love these people who want me to get to know God.
Do you know him? Have you met him?
Of course not. The point I'm making is that God for you is what you want him to be. Thats all. You have no idea he exists in any form. No more than I do for that matter. You simply CHOOSE to believe in him.
You believing in him does not make him real for everyone. Like we should praise a God that exists in your head.
If you have trouble understanding that, you probably believe. Your brain will stop hurting shortly.
DB BD
on June 14, 2008
at 09:27 AM
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People with lower IQs have a limited capacity to understand the thought processes of people with higher IQs. Inevitably, those with lower IQs will dislike and mistrust those with higher IQs. The former will accuse the latter of moral and intellectual errors. They will fulminate with outrage, honest, but misguided.
The "culture wars" largely represent disagreements between the smart and the stupid. Unfortunately, the smart are greatly outnumbered. Fortunately, the smart are smarter.
Timbo
on June 14, 2008
at 09:27 AM
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this article reminds me of the following quote from the Bible:
professing themselves wise, they became fools.
and this quote too:
the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
RobertK
on June 14, 2008
at 09:26 AM
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Rubbish, yes. I'm an intelligent atheist, but I know many others who are just as intelligent and believe in God (or any other religion.) Although there is no evidence to support any faith, people will follow it blindly if exposed to it early and grow up around it. It's just the matter of the people and the impact those people are able to produce.
Load of garbage
on June 14, 2008
at 09:26 AM
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It is philosophically impossible to be an atheist, since to be an atheist you must have infinite knowledge in order to know absolutely that there is no God. But to have infinite knowledge, you would have to be God yourself. It's hard to be God yourself and an atheist at the same time!
Jackson
on June 14, 2008
at 09:21 AM
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I always wanted to ask a non-believer "when they die why do they always dress up if there not going anywhere".
a believer
on June 14, 2008
at 09:20 AM
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Must be true! I'm as thick as they come, and I see God in everything.
Paul Cleminson
on June 14, 2008
at 09:20 AM
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If there were a God Hovering above, there wouldn't be a Dick running our country. (VP that is!)
OHH SH*T!
on June 14, 2008
at 09:20 AM
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Well, the more you are gifted by god usually the more you are againts god and his commandments. thats simply shows how ungreatful we are of what we get
if god gives you looks, then u'd act stuck up to others, if god gives u richness then u act you're above all, and if god gives you BIG BRAIN then u think the rest are idiots and never right, but the truth is once u reached the highest of knowledge then u start believing again....
anyway check out
QURAN: 9.74 (AT-TAUBA)
... this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them.....etc
Nancy
on June 14, 2008
at 09:19 AM
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Well, the more you are gifted by god usually the more you are againts god and his commandments. thats simply shows how ungreatful we are of what we get
if god gives you looks, then u'd act stuck up to others, if god gives u richness then u act you're above all, and if god gives you BIG BRAIN then u think the rest are idiots and never right, but the truth is once u reached the highest of knowledge then u start believing again....
anyway check out
QURAN: 9.74 (AT-TAUBA)
... this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them.....etc
Nancy1
on June 14, 2008
at 09:14 AM
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So Michelangelo, Leonardo Di Vinci, the Ancient Greeks and countless other brilliant men and women were all more stupid and with a lower I.Q. than any modern atheist? I would like to see any atheist including the scientific ones create anything that will last as long as the Parthenon. As the Greeks said, whom the gods destroy they first make mad... hubris is going to cause science's failure and fall.
KathleenMary
on June 14, 2008
at 09:07 AM
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Nice to know research is finally catching up with common sense.
D351
on June 14, 2008
at 09:02 AM
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Scientists also recently announced a link between not knowing how to swim and drowning, as well as between being short and being unable to reach the top shelf!
Truly shocking.
MrHackman
on June 14, 2008
at 09:02 AM
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Of course it is. me or people like me dont have the time to write down all the scientific and historical evidence on this issue on some website or anything, but it surely is. me personally have studied all kinds of theories linked to religious beliefs and just to be frank, they dont make sense to me, its just nonsense. people with higher IQ levels wouldn't take these kinda theories as the answers, but rather would like to be agnostic and search the truth about all sorts of things in science and experiments. of course we are a young race, human being i mean. there will be a time, which we all will be eternal and live forever and take over all the universe. just like the scientific stories 'n books. but if, and just if we can survive on this planet.
Armin
on June 14, 2008
at 09:02 AM
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HI im 16 my IQ is 148 and god does not exist.PEOPLE there is no HARD EVIDENCE no proof what so ever. there is, however, proof of evolution and the big bang theory and everything else scientific BUT THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD!!!!!
Paige
on June 14, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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The Scottish Voltaire:
Voltaire said: "But God I never knew!"
God: "Ye ken the noo."
Jonny
on June 14, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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Wait until you die and find out if God is real or not!
Joseph McKoon
on June 14, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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"I really know i shouldnt but i cant help but laugh at how godless some of you are.
Must be quite depressing and empty deep down."
It's comments like this that make life 'depressing and empty'. From an athiest point of view, I fully respect people's right to faith and to follow whatever doctrine they please (so long as it has a positive effect on them and those around them). But to say that life, without religious observance, is "depressing and empty", shows nothing but ignorance. I never cease to be fascinated by the marvel of the world and creation and am grateful for all of it I have had the pleasure to experience. Just because I don't claim to have the answers, doesn't mean I appreciate the enigma of life any less.
Nick
on June 14, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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Although I had an IQ of 143, I still belief in a higher being alot of people would love to name God.
However, I do Not belief in Religion. And I think most intelligent people will question Religions notwithstanding their belief in something more.
Jan
on June 14, 2008
at 09:01 AM
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I am not commenting here to argue but to point out to those intelligent enough not to believe in fairy?s and god and leprechauns that "never argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his own level and beat you with experience" so commenting here is a waste of time, and yes I realize I wasted time here but I got plenty of it as a teenager surfing the internet at 05:20 on a weekend. Also to the Christian people, I know I probably did some typos and I know your IQ is probably 100 times higher than mine but does the fact there are Christian people that are good scholars in this world make for example god or elf?s a fact cos it was written in a book it existed ? I bet if stories about Jesus were written now as fantasy stories and stories about magical carrots that created the world had been written thousands of years ago as a religion than you would be on your knees at night praying to carrots not god for good health and fortune.
Me and myself
on June 14, 2008
at 09:00 AM
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2. Posted by Ehren on June 14, 2008 08:13 AM
I.Q.-149
I am strong Christian. I wouldn't fall away for anything. I've seen to much to think that all this is random chance.
It is NOT random "chance" but a near infinite series of random chances over hundreds of millions of years.
A Boeing 747 airliner is not a manifestation of a random chance but of years of engineering evolvement.
We are products of hundreds of millions of evolutionary steps, and even more so of evolutionary steps that did not work.
It is quite simple really if you allow a random chance event of engaging the cerebral cortex to take place
James McLaren
on June 14, 2008
at 08:55 AM
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Posted by Ehren: "I wouldn't fall away for anything."
Now that's a supremely stupid thing to say.
I'm as certain there is no god as I am certain of quantum physics. But you know what? Despite all the evidence for QM, it is in fact conceivable that more evidence could change my mind. About either proposition.
That's the intelligent position. Anyone who isn't even interested in evidence against their position has already betrayed their intellect.
Micheal C. Planck
on June 14, 2008
at 08:55 AM
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to post 28
What about Bertam Russel's Celestial Teapot; can't not prove that either??
James McLaren
on June 14, 2008
at 08:54 AM
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I have an IQ of 144, and I am an atheist. I guess I fit the stereotype.
Garth
on June 14, 2008
at 08:13 AM
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I.Q.-149
I am strong Christian. I wouldn't fall away for anything. I've seen to much to think that all this is random chance.
Ehren
on June 14, 2008
at 08:13 AM
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I think that being unable to believe in God is linked to learning, which is not necessarily the same as intelligence. It is very difficult for people trained in scientific methods and knowledge of the universe, physics and biology to equate this with miracles, the hereafter, and Beings who cannot be seen or proven to exist.
John
on June 14, 2008
at 08:12 AM
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I think that being unable to believe in God is linked to learning, which is not necessarily the same as intelligence. It is very difficult for people trained in scientific methods and knowledge of the universe, physics and biology to equate this with miracles, the hereafter, and Beings who cannot be seen or proven to exist.
John
on June 14, 2008
at 08:12 AM
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Hey, I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm an athiest with a 3.8, I'm going into Astronomy. I have a sort of logical explanation for the conclusion that people of higher intellegence don't generally worship a god. Mainly those intellectually gifted tend to question many things and want to know why things happen the way they do, and if they can't get an answer, or get an answer that makes sense, they believe there is no strong ground for it, and they believe it's a lie altogether. A lot of scientist-types that I know are like that. For instance, the math fact that point repeating nine equals 1. No-one wants to believe that. But if ...7/9 equals .repeating7, 8/9 equals .repeating8, then logically, 9/9 should equal .repeating9. Look it up, there are a lot of questions and arguments on it, just like with religion. For a lot of people, if it doesn't make sense, they refuse to believe it's true. But I have my reasons, and I have logical ones. So yeah. I'm not critisizing people for their faith, I think it's wonderful they have that, but I just can't not be athiest from what I've learned, and what I've been through. I don't think any of you guys should get too upset about it, so long as no-one's forcing you to renounce your faith. If that happens, go ahead and fight for it. Yeah, I'm done. Bie! :0D
Alina
on June 14, 2008
at 08:11 AM
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it is so obviously true that it was hardly worth saying.
Yendys
on June 14, 2008
at 08:11 AM
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The existence of god can be nither proven nor disproven. As such any argument reguarding the existince of a god is irrelevant. It think its perfectly reasonable that people with higher IQ's are less likely to belive in god, the smartest people ask the hardest to awnser questions. And when their is not anwser in the bible or from a church leader, and science presents not only an awnser but a logical explantations the concept of god is much less likely to be belived. Religion provides comfort in awnsers to phisological questions, and when religion fails to awnser tough questions often asked by those of higher IQ it is only logical for that person to now deny the existence of god. I have an IQ of 140, and I personaly found the story and concept of the bible being impossible to accept from a logical point of veiw. To the uninformed the story of Jesus placed in the fiction/fantacy secton of a library would fit right in. In the scripture there are only so many awnsers yet the nature of the human being dictates that as time goest on the smartest will ask more and more unawnserable questions, and isnt the purpose of religion to awnser those very questions?
Phil
on June 14, 2008
at 08:09 AM
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History is littered with abandoned Gods of all types who were necessary when the sum of human knowledge was less than it is today.
I live in hope that in this century, mankind will finally realize that religious belief in a deity is a manifestation of a mental illness similar in many ways to obsessive/compulsive behaviour with elements of paranoid schizophrenia.
John Clarke
on June 14, 2008
at 08:08 AM
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It's something I've been saying for a long time.
You will find intelligent people in religious organisations because they are initially attracted by the possibilities that require investigation.
However, most of them do not stay for a lifetime because the eventually inescapable conclusion is that religion has more to do with dogma and blind faith than fact.
And the churches, despite 2000 years of history, still don't offer any proof of the existence of their dogmatic definition of God.
On the other hand, while science and education do not disprove the existence some sort of pan-dimensional intelligence, the limited and anthropomorphic definitions offered by such collected manuscripts as the Bible, the Koran and the Book of Mormon can be dispensed with by logic alone.
In that sense then, many of the world's traditional religions actually do spirituality a disservice by placing limits upon the very being they purport to credit. The fact is, and history confirms this, churches are too interested in promoting and perpetuating themselves to be of sufficient service to either the world or any god to justify their existence.
I have no problem with the possibility that there may (or may not) be some sort of higher power. I am an agnostic, not an atheist.
I do, however, have a problem with people who get their definition of that higher power from churches and, moreso, from churches that indoctrinate people into believing that they have the definitions or the answers, or that someone who died 2000 years ago is going to somehow miraculously save them.
If you get anything out of your Bible (or any of the other equally if not more valid spiritual writings that have been compiled over the years) get the bit that says "God is in you".
Through all of life's trials and tribulations, and in all its ups and downs, there has only been one person, one force, one entity that has been with you, and is going to be with you, in every circumstance.
You.
Only you can save yourself. Only you can give yourself strength of spirit. Because the life force that is within you, the sense of self that makes you who you are, that is your spirit. That is what gives you strength and the ability to be compassionate and loving towards others. That is what gives you the power, whether limited or not, to shape your own destiny. You are your own god, and nobody else's; and nobody else is yours.
Floyd
on June 14, 2008
at 08:04 AM
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I have an IQ up 160 and I'm agnostic... I think that's true
Ramon
on June 14, 2008
at 07:59 AM
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And a big surprise awaits them all.
Wm
on June 13, 2008
at 11:54 PM
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And a big surprise awaits them all.
Wm
on June 13, 2008
at 11:54 PM
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I thought I saw God the other day but then realised it was just the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy having a coffee with Santa Claus.
Mick
on June 13, 2008
at 11:54 PM
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Well, I'm a 3.83 cumulative Accounting major, consistently making 4.0s in various classes, in my second year, IQ of 136, and I'm a study geek who loves to learn, but I'm also the kind of Christian that would be labeled as "fundamentalist." I'm not evolutionist in beliefs, and I believe the Bible to be 100% true. It's actually because of my belief in God and the capacity with which He made humans that I've recently felt motivated to pursue higher intelligence. This would be my answer.
JSchwartz
on June 13, 2008
at 11:54 PM
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I really know i shouldnt but i cant help but laugh at how godless some of you are.
Must be quite depressing and empty deep down.
CC
on June 13, 2008
at 11:54 PM
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Ummm...! It pretty much speaks for itself and no further comment needed.
RICHARD NORTON
on June 13, 2008
at 11:46 PM
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Ummm...! It pretty much speaks for itself and no further comment needed.
RICHARD NORTON
on June 13, 2008
at 11:46 PM
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on a side note... you are losing your sovereignty... people: google infowars, prisonplanet, zeitgeist, terrorstorm, ENDGAME... The Bilderbergers...It goes on and on.... Be safe!
RICHARD NORTON
on June 13, 2008
at 11:46 PM
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Edward, you just exempified this research. You have to be of extremely low IQ to put forth the argument that you did.
1) This book says that people who don't believe it are fools.
2) Therefore people who don't believe it are fools.
Oooo, wow, good one. Boy, you really got me there.
Matt
on June 13, 2008
at 11:46 PM
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This is a correlational study without any evidence of causation. As ice cream sales go up so do murders, but this isn�t because eating ice cream turns people into killers. It�s because hot weather increases both ice cream sales and propensity to commit acts of violence. This isn�t in ANY way an actual scientific study by this guy at Ulster U.
Cory
on June 13, 2008
at 11:46 PM
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No Dave, that's precisely the point, I DON'T need proof to not believe in god, I don't even need evidence. YOU need evidence, otherwise your belief is unjustified, and that's called a delusion.
Mark
on June 13, 2008
at 11:44 PM
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No, Einstein didn't believe in god in any sense that you're thinking of it. Sheesh, the slightest bit of research would have shown you otherwise if you had just made an effort.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/quote-e.htm
Kevin
on June 13, 2008
at 11:44 PM
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@21
Your statement merely demonstrates the unreliability of IQ testing.
Quoting the bible does not represent an argument about why I should believe what is written in it.
Nanabozho
on June 13, 2008
at 11:44 PM
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For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
� I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.�[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
maria king
on June 13, 2008
at 11:44 PM
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I.Q. - 125
I believe in God, but my definition of God has changed as I have grown older. I think smart people - the truly brilliant ones, not just the moderately intelligent, like myself, talk themselves out of believing because they take the churches' definition and think it is the only possible one. A person's definition & understanding of God should change and mature as they reach middle age.
I am a gnostic Christian- I believe in the ONE who is all. The ONE is both within the universe and exterior to the universe so the universe's end is not His/her end. I have studied world wide mysticism privately and find my world view has much in common with Buddhist philosophy and Platonism.
As for this scientist - right now, science is acting more like a religion than a way of exploring the All that IS - it is becoming dogmatic, limiting and speaks about things it can't possibly prove or disprove. It is also taking sides in debates it should have nothing do with, such as the differences between conservative or liberal - this is just more proof the bias of both the old press, science and the intelligentsia.
KathleenMary
on June 13, 2008
at 11:43 PM
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To Everyone: Read Josh McDowell's book "In search of certainty"
Know that the LORD is God.
It is he who made us, and we are his.
Psalm 100:3
J. Antonio
on June 13, 2008
at 11:42 PM
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Duh. An increase in intelligence often leads to an increase in pride and presumptiousness. Not really surprised at all......but God is real, Jesus is real and died for all of our sins. Get to know him for yourself....regardless of your IQ
L
on June 13, 2008
at 11:41 PM
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These people often say to believers that there is no proof that God exists.However I would suggest to them that there is no proof that he doesn't.
EX-BRAT
on June 13, 2008
at 11:41 PM
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Ok. What this article is really saying is that Jesus is not intelligent. Some would argue that he was the most intelligent teacher in the history of the world.
Lynn
on June 13, 2008
at 11:40 PM
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Some thoughts and questions for all:
Instructions. Just read and answer where necessary. Answer based on perception not on what others have told you.
IQ test is a measure of perception. Intelligence may be misleading.
Is there order to the universe? in the galaxy? on our world?
Could life survive in a universe without order?
If there is order, did it require religion to exist?
Statement:Participation in a specific religion is highly dependant on where you live.
If God exists, does God favor dogs above cats? does God favor muslims above jews? Does God favor cats above muslims or jews?
If God is eternal, and humans are not; what religion will describe God when we are gone?
Thanks for your time. and good luck!
Shecky
on June 13, 2008
at 11:03 PM
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I'm an intelligent person and I believe in God. So did Einstein.
I've never heard such rubbish. JT
jon taylor
on June 13, 2008
at 11:00 PM
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"The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. (from Richard Dawkins' - The God Delusion)
Prof Dick Lynn is probably chuckling to himself that his article has provoked as much 'free research material' as these comments. By today (Fri 13 June)morning the count was over 600 comments but, mysteriously, right now (9.00pm) registers 30.
Scanning them shows up the religionists predictable moronic cries typified by 'the bible says...'
The barbaric bronze age texts known as the Old Testament, and its three derivatives, typifies it, sadly it's also a nasty patriarchal one with its loathing of women for 2000 years in those countries afflicted by its sky god and earthly male delegates - to paraphrase Gore Vidal.
Extrapolating human advancement from its multi-god polytheism through to contemporary monotheism will, hopefully, through intelligence and scientific inquiry, eventually lead to zero-theism. Then, and only then, will humankind eventually unshackle itself from religion's grotesque hold.
Meanwhile, may the force of the Jedi Knights be with you...
manjo
on June 13, 2008
at 11:00 PM
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"Linking religious belief and intelligence .... is perhaps not the most helpful response".
That's not the point. Professor Lynn is not trying to "be helpful", he is trying to establish facts. If it is true that religion goes with low intelligence and lack of logical thinking then this should be more widely known.
It is, of course, already very widely known to and exploited by people who create and promote cults, from Jim Jones to L. Ron Hubbard. The difference between them and the established churches is merely one of degree.
Rosemary
on June 13, 2008
at 10:59 PM
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Sorry Folks you can debate all day but its proof you need to actually dispel God and sorry nobody has got it even intelligent people.
Dave Scott
on June 13, 2008
at 10:58 PM
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Why the study say believe in God not in Christianity? this thing is different for Muslims because because the more educated the more intelligent the person the more belief in God the Muslim get.
Amjed
on June 13, 2008
at 10:58 PM
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This isn't really a revelation. Many intelligent atheists notice things like that in general the least primative countries (Western/Northern Europe, East Asia, Canada, Australia) are the least religious without even trying. USA is an exception of sorts, particularly due to the historic influx of preachers whose zeal lives on today. Most intelligent people I meet are atheists, especially when I was in university. To be frank the correlation is obvious. Sure there are exceptions but on the whole the greater your education or the higher your IQ the greater your chance of being either an atheist or merely a "softcore" theist. The reason the obvious will always be contested is that most people are just average. To people like me, that means you're stupid. People don't want to admit they are stupid and their beliefs are a load of trash.
Joey Bartlett
on June 13, 2008
at 10:55 PM
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I spent a year actually looking into everything before finally deciding religion wasn't right for me (at least not now), but along the way I found out that Christianity is far deeper than I could have imagined. They don't try to impose God on me, and if that is what they do then it is just the same as an atheist that tells me God doesn't exist as ultimately both people are trying to get me to believe what THEY believe. Oppression breeds more oppression, so just simply say "no thanks, not for me" and move along. There's a wide spectrum of intelligence for believers and nonbelievers, so I don't think we can ever make any real conclusions. Besides, we all need to band together if we're gonna take on the cable and oil companies!
will
on June 13, 2008
at 10:54 PM
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Drexl (comment #7). Please know that any thoughtful believer would not present God to you that way. Try reading something other than evangelical simplistic claptrap. Start with J.B. Phillips' Your God is Too Small.
Nancy
on June 13, 2008
at 10:53 PM
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Nothing new here. A study of poorer nations vs. richer nations will also reveal the same conclusion. If you are poor, you are more likely to cling to some kind of god than if you are rich.
Kelly Smith
on June 13, 2008
at 10:53 PM
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My question to those scientists who do not believe in God is - what/who created the universe? Where did all of it come from - prove that it came from nothing, then I'll concede that there is no God...until then, believers like myself have more proof that something intelligent created the universe...these "intelligent" people don't know who they are messing with.
Becca in Ohio
on June 13, 2008
at 10:53 PM
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What kind of 'God' are we talking about? See how smart I am!
Joe
on June 13, 2008
at 10:52 PM
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You've got to love revisionists like jesseleigh
"And Hitler was raised as a devout Catholic and exclaimed to be a Christian."
Hitler renounced his catholic faith early on he loathed & detested the catholic church in fact many catholic religious were killed in the concentration camps we seem to overlook that little fact. Truth be known Hitler & many of his henchmen were deeply involved in the occult.
Pius IX
on June 13, 2008
at 10:52 PM
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As an atheist, I have to laugh when people chide my attitude towards religion by posting quotes from the Bible as if it had any authority.
It's a book of primitive myths written by Bronze Age Middle-Eastern nomads some 2500 years ago, complete with all their misconceptions, fears, prejudices, and ignorance.
Hardly applicable to the 21st century.
Bernard Gagne
on June 13, 2008
at 10:52 PM
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Nothing new here. A study of poorer nations vs. richer nations will also reveal the same conclusion. If you are poor, you are more likely to cling to some kind of god than if you are rich.
Kelly Smith
on June 13, 2008
at 10:51 PM
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What kind of 'God' are we talking about? See how smart I am!
Joe
on June 13, 2008
at 10:51 PM
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@'intelligent believer' - you obviously are not that intelligent as you demonstrably fail to grasp the simple difference between the phrases 'less likely' and 'definitely don't'.
Dave
on June 13, 2008
at 10:51 PM
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The thing is, even a high IQ doesn't mean you're necessarily intelligent. Do IQ tests have questions about physics or evolution or dinosaurs or the universe?
Dori
on June 13, 2008
at 10:51 PM
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Exactly.
Now, my study showing that straws cause cancer will be taken seriously.
Ok, a quick synopsis... countries that use straws have higher incidence of reported cancer, and because as we can see from this study, correlation === causation; Conclusion, straws cause cancer.
Or maybe correlation doesn't equal causation, and both my study, and this one are complete bunk.
I'm not sure which the "High IQ" group believe... maybe they'll all stop using straws due to my study?
Robert McPheeters
on June 13, 2008
at 10:50 PM
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Atheism is not the antithesis of religiosity, it is just another version of it. The true antithesis of religion is democracy.
Those who cannot reconcile the dualities in their perceptions and take responsibility for them, (the childs view with adulthood, the mans view with the womans, the ruler with the ruled) and find peace within themselves refer to a third object which helps them to do so. Some call it God, others don't. What is that third object? Is it really another being or is it another form of self? Is it reality or just the perception of it? Do we all perceive the same thing in the same way? I would say no. This is the nature of reality and subjectivity. The myth of God does not take account of the fact that we are not all the same nor do we have the same perspectives, people do genuinely disagree about what is true and fair and right. The notion of obediance to a common world view is broken by the freedom to disagree without being burned for heresy and in my view this is for the best as it allows for a greater degree of honesty.
Richard
on June 13, 2008
at 10:50 PM
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The thing is, even a high IQ doesn't mean you're necessarily intelligent. Do IQ tests have questions about physics or evolution or dinosaurs or the universe?
Dori
on June 13, 2008
at 10:49 PM
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When will humanity focus on finding a creditable reason for our existence vs. taking fairy tale stories written 100's of years ago by man to control man and calling it GOD.
John
on June 13, 2008
at 10:49 PM
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Nothing new here. A study of poorer nations vs. richer nations will also reveal the same conclusion. If you are poor, you are more likely to cling to some kind of god than if you are rich.
Kelly Smith
on June 13, 2008
at 10:49 PM
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The "academics are necessarily smarter than everyone else" conceit is a bit passe. Many would argue that most academics are simply inadequate to compete in a free labor market, and aren't necessarily any more intelligent than anyone else.
In other words, what a self-serving load of unscientific tripe.
DaveS
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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The "academics are necessarily smarter than everyone else" conceit is a bit passe. Many would argue that most academics are simply inadequate to compete in a free labor market, and aren't necessarily any more intelligent than anyone else.
In other words, what a self-serving load of unscientific tripe.
DaveS
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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As an obviously intelligent, athiest, I'd like to give this research my personal seal of approval.
Robinson
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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Faith that God exists can be firmly established by contemplating the power and wisdom manifest in visible creation, including its order and harmony. All reasonable persons will agree that every effect has a competent cause. A watch argues for the existence of a watchmaker. So, look where we may in the universe, from the complex eye of an insect to the mighty galaxies in outer space, we come to the conclusion that there simply must be a mighty and wise Maker, or Creator, of these things.
Wernher von Braun, rocket expert, and one of the eight referred to, replied: �Why do I believe in God? Simply stated, the main reason is this: Anything as well ordered and perfectly created as is our earth and universe must have a Maker, a master designer. Anything so orderly, so perfect, so precisely balanced, so majestic as this creation can only be the product of a Divine Idea. There must be a Maker; there can be no other way.�
Ray Taylor
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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This study really shouldn't be a surprise. My thought is that there are three things going on.
-----
* Intelligent people are capable of understanding evolutionary theory.
* There's a large amount of pressure in the academic world not to believe in God.
* Intelligent people are accustomed to relying on themselves, and relying on a God would not be natural.
-------
What's IMPLIED by the study is that the people with higher IQs are more likely to be correct, and this increases the odds that God does not exist.
I'm not sure that I agree with that implication. This more like as if I took a university professor and a random guy off the street and asked them to fix my house's plumbing. Who's going to be more likely to succeed? It could really go either way. Odds are neither of them are an expert in plumbing repair (although it's possible).
The same goes for the origins of the universe and the existence of a higher power. Someone with a high IQ might do a good job at explaining fluid dynamics, but do they really have enough information to empirically prove or disprove the existence of God? No. It's a judgment call.
ArmyOfAardvarks
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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We cannot say the study is not simplistic, as we haven't even read this study. What we are reading (the article in the Telegraph) seems to imply that the study is simplistic, but we're only believing it because Graeme Paton (the author) seems to say so. If you wish to draw an accurate conclusion on the study, read Richard Lynn's article directly(try using Google scholar to find it).
the Owl
on June 13, 2008
at 10:48 PM
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For someone that is an atheist like I am, I feel flatted but I believe this is a very simplistic view of the whole issue.
But I must disagree with the sentence where it says that academics have a greater IQ than the general population - if that was the case, the general population would not have such a low IQ...
Sofia Machado
on June 13, 2008
at 10:47 PM
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People with lower IQs have a limited capacity to understand the thought processes of people with higher IQs. Inevitably, those with lower IQs will dislike and mistrust those with higher IQs. The former will accuse the latter of moral and intellectual errors. They will fulminate with outrage, honest, but misguided.
The "culture wars" largely represent disagreements between the smart and the stupid. Unfortunately, the smart are greatly outnumbered. Fortunately, the smart are smarter.
Timbo
on June 13, 2008
at 09:42 PM
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Everyone interested enough to have read this article should check out Richard Dawkins new book, "The God Delusion." He touches on this subject several times throughout and it's a very interesting one indeed. By the way, our founding fathers were for the most part, atheists. Especially, Jefferson. Einstein, too. And atheists did not give us communism - Marx gave us that. And Hitler was raised as a devout Catholic and exclaimed to be a Christian. Read the book.
jesseleigh
on June 13, 2008
at 09:42 PM
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People with lower IQs have a limited capacity to understand the thought processes of people with higher IQs. Inevitably, those with lower IQs will dislike and mistrust those with higher IQs. The former will accuse the latter of moral and intellectual errors. They will fulminate with outrage, honest, but misguided.
The "culture wars" largely represent disagreements between the smart and the stupid. Unfortunately, the smart are greatly outnumbered. Fortunately, the smart are smarter.
Timbo
on June 13, 2008
at 09:41 PM
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It doesn't matter what I think about "atheists" and their "religion". But, I encourage all "intelligent" atheists and otherwise non-believing entities to read Romans 1:22 and Psalm 53:1.
Edward Brower
on June 13, 2008
at 09:41 PM
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Ray D, several of the United States founding fathers did not believe in God (notably Thomas Jefferson). An early treaty the US signed with Libya explicitly stated that the US was "not founded as a Christian Nation".
Andrew
on June 13, 2008
at 09:41 PM
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Science approached from a purely scientific view will always reach the truth, however science approached with an agenda will always support the agenda. Studies are only as accurate if the person performing the test is unbiased to the result. Believe in God or not it is irrelevent to true science.
Zelf Tyrne
on June 13, 2008
at 09:41 PM
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For the believers: Do you believe in God because a book told you so? How do you back that up.
Also:
Suppose you had never heard of God and have never been exposed to any religions before. Now, suppose someone walks up to you and tells you that an invisible being created you and everything in the universe and that he loves you unconditionally. Then you are told that this same all knowing, all powerful, all loving God well torture you for eternity, after you die, if you don't believe in him. What would you think of this person?
Just curious about that.
Drexl
on June 13, 2008
at 09:41 PM
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A very wide range of people, from low IQ to high IQ, believe in God. Isn't the logical conclusion to draw from this then, simply that academics are less likely to believe in God than the rest of the population? I'm not sure what my IQ is, average probably or lower maybe, but even I can see this. Shouldn't an academic be able to see it too?
Robert
on June 13, 2008
at 09:40 PM
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To observe that faith in God decreases as intelligence increases is fine. However, it would be incorrect to conclude the someone's faith in God indicates a lack of intelligence. Lower intelligence is a characteristic of many believers, but it is not a required characteristic.
Jim
on June 13, 2008
at 09:40 PM
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the simplest way to be happy to know how everything exists and is made is to believe in a god, doesn't matter what kind of a god. A god knows everything, can create everything, is allmighty and everything what you can imagine. So when He or She has that power and you believe in Him/Her, then you have not to worry about anything. Don't analyse, don't think, for god let you think and analyze and the results are also His, not your's. You are nothing. God let you live and die and your life is not your's but His/Her's. So simple is it, so terrible simple. Sit down and enjoy your life and death here and in Heaven to all eternity and try not to become disappointed or bored. That is real intelligence, the art of life!
henry
on June 13, 2008
at 09:39 PM
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High Intelligence,Highly educated and extremely spiritual.No science is does not exclude GOD.
caca
on June 13, 2008
at 09:39 PM
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I do not respect anyone's "faith".
If someone told you they had faith that pink unicorns existed, you would laugh at them. There is zero evidence for their existence, but the same is true for all the gods.
Just because faith in a god makes someone happy doesn't make it true.
Take the religious out of the primary schools, they are brain washing our children with nonsense!
Brian
on June 13, 2008
at 09:38 PM
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Hogwash, stuff and nonsense.
My IQ is 160+, my wife qualifies for Mensa, our son's was literally off the charts when he was tested, and we are all believers.
Some of the most incisive logic I have ever encountered was in the service of faith, from the Apostle Paul to Johnathan Edwards to C.S. Lewis to Francis Scaeffer to John Piper.
Paul nailed it nearly 2,000 years ago:
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities?his eternal power and divine nature?have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools...
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator?who is forever praised. Amen."
intelligent believer
on June 13, 2008
at 09:38 PM
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It's time to realise the difference between spiritual belief in God and religious belief.
Religion (deliberately) gives God a bad name.
And yes, this study does seem very simplistic.
Neil
on June 13, 2008
at 09:38 PM
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Christianity makes foolish the wisdom of the world- or words to that effect. So said Saint Paul. Almost every story on religion published as a sensation is centuries old. How do these chaps measure 'intelligence' anyway, and how much has it to do with common sense, or wisdom, if anything?
P Harvey
on June 13, 2008
at 09:00 PM
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It seems that non-belief is linked not with IQ but rather with education. Many of the most effective and charasmatic religious leaders (the "true believers" as it were) have been people of very high intelligence and very low education. However, even those of average intelligence are able to grasp the gross contradictions of faith and reject the mythologies of religion given only a modest education.
Michael H.
on June 13, 2008
at 09:00 PM
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Such crass thinking could only come from the godless.
A monk of great renown
on June 13, 2008
at 08:59 PM
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It is a mark of intelligence, actually, to entertain mutually exclusive concepts in one's mind.
WE HAVE A WINNER> this is the only true, forward-moving intelligence whatsoever. All of the concepts should exist and persist in the mind and relate to one another or the individual will immediately succumb to dogmatism.
Johnny B
on June 13, 2008
at 08:58 PM
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I am amazed at people 'in finance' beleiving that they have higher IQ than academics. Bricklayers, farmers,mechanics, pole-dancers..yes. But finance???
Eric Skelton
on June 13, 2008
at 08:58 PM
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Professor Lynn states the obvious. Just look at America. Christianity has had a resurgance in the Mid-West amongst the lesser educated Americans whilst the better educated populace in California and the East Coast remain quite rightly dubious of superstition
Average Joe
on June 13, 2008
at 08:57 PM
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Mensa (the society of people with extremely high IQs) conducted 42 tests trying to find the relationship between intelligence and faith.40 out of 42 test showed an inverse correlation between how smart a person is and how religious they are. Sorry believers, numbers don't lie
b
on June 13, 2008
at 08:57 PM
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I think this study merely proves that athiests consider themselves to be members of an intellectual elite. These are the same people who think whining about life is both existentialism and poetry.
Fred Baumann
on June 13, 2008
at 08:55 PM
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Scientists arrogant? I don't think so. They are always ready to discuss and update their findings, while the representatives of religion have the pretension to possess the only thruth (what a pity there are so many diverging so significantly) and to impose it on everybody else. Now who is arrogant?
helen
on June 13, 2008
at 08:55 PM
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There is a difference between believing in God and religion. People with higher IQ are not attracted to "faith below reason" the realm in which religion operates.
andy n
on June 13, 2008
at 08:55 PM
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How many people and of what accreditation makes no difference AT ALL as the the ACTUAL existence of God. Whether you are a scientist who believes, or a child who doesn't. Neither scenario changes the condition of the existence of God, which should be a judgment based on empirically observed data, not on some traditional superstitious mythology in .
I.Q. is not a measure of how much one knows, it is instead the ABILITY to analyze and synthesize. (It is the processing speed not the information stored on the hard drive.) Professors and educated men do not unnecessarily have higher I.Q.s.
They are, however, more learned and better educated. This is what I believe contributes to the disillusionment of a deitic father figure.
In short, "I believe in God" is an empty statement expressed about an idea riddled with internal logical conflict.
The Analog Robot
on June 13, 2008
at 08:54 PM
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There is an alternative explanation: Intelligence and foolishness are not mutually exclusive. I have observed that many people of low IQ are blessed with great wisdom and vice-versa. As the scriptures say: "The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God'"
S.Wrixon
on June 13, 2008
at 08:54 PM
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God did not creat man.
Man created God and concept of God to put fear and order into fellow human beings. It is not God(non-existant) who controls the universe, but it is the SUN which controls everythng physical, electrical and so called spiritual changes in the universe. This is the reason why some cultures worship SUN. The day the SUN destroys itself or some crack pot destroys it, the living beings on earth will vanish!
Sridhar Rao
on June 13, 2008
at 08:52 PM
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There are enough really super-intelligent people of religious faith to dismiss the idea (statistically speaking) that greater intelligence leads to less belief in God. It's more obvious that those who believe similar things congregate into certain professions. Besides, how intelligent is it to disbelieve in God. If you're using the measure of IQ and/or having college degrees, then what you are really proving is that more people that are brainwashed by our increasingly intellectually rigid universities, and who think less and less for themselves, disbelieve in God. That's hardly a mark of intelligence.
Daniel
on June 13, 2008
at 08:30 PM
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Unfortunately this is not "Breaking News" to those of us in the Christian Community. It has always been that way, and always will be, until the wisdom of the wise is revealed to be pure foolishness. The Bible tells us this. God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the highly educated fool.
Elder Michael Wright
on June 13, 2008
at 08:27 PM
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USA's founding fathers believed in God and created the greatest country in the world based on divine principles. Athiests gave us communism and these modern day academics subscribe to this failed philosophy. That's all I need to know to decide who is more intelligent.
Ray D
on June 13, 2008
at 08:27 PM
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Well, i know my fellow right wingers will be upset with this, but i myself am not a person of strong belief, and have reached that point after a lot of thought.
I'm sure this will enrage a lot of people.
damon
on June 13, 2008
at 08:26 PM
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Why would anyone consider "academics" as having the highest IQs in society? It always struck me that academics were hidding out from real life - that they do not have what it takes to make it in the real world. And I have heard a lot of really silly things come out of the mouths of these 'academics". I work in finance and my spouse works in the engineering / science field. We have met what we like to call 'scary smart' people. And quite a number of these truly smart, gifted people are Christians.
Lily
on June 13, 2008
at 08:25 PM
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University-educated people have also spent more time being educated in science, which, if we're being honest, aims to disprove God.
Lag
on June 13, 2008
at 08:24 PM
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Academics also believe overwhelmingly in Global Warming. And there's a lot more evidence of the existence of God than there is of Global Warming. Clearly the link between academia and IQ is tenuous, at best.
D Fournier
on June 13, 2008
at 08:24 PM
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Has anyone involved in this study controlled the data for "arrogance"? Seems to me, academics not only have higher intelligence, but also a higher level of pomposity. It may be their arrogance and not their intelligence that turns them away from God. That, after all was the original sin, wasn't it? Desiring to be a god unto oneself? As a former member of Mensa and a devout Catholic, I find this purported study amusing.
ktrush
on June 13, 2008
at 08:22 PM
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The sky is blue, your eyes are blue, your eyes are made from pieces of the sky.... just follow the logic.
roux
on June 13, 2008
at 08:22 PM
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While many will complain that this suggests religious people are dumb, I am not surprised at the outcomes of this study. While I won't say that intelligence makes you more enlightened, I would say it's more likely that highly intelligent people are able to work out complex, alternative explanations for the workings and mysteries of the universe, or are simply better at rationalizing their actions in defiance of religious prescriptions.
Jared Stein
on June 13, 2008
at 08:22 PM
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Faith isn't linked to intelligence or IQ, but to education. The more we learn about the world around us, contrived supernatural explanations become increasingly less relevant. Its as simple as that. With education comes exposure to history, science, and comparative religions, all of which help to empower people to think for themselves, and approach the world in an enlightened, rational way.
shara says
on June 13, 2008
at 08:21 PM
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Is there proof that Academics have a high IQ? Did the Gallop poll also make people take IQ tests or was it just based on their current employment?
ASH
on June 13, 2008
at 08:21 PM
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Yes ... but the other way around
Vic
on June 13, 2008
at 08:21 PM
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absolute rubbish
emeka
on June 13, 2008
at 08:21 PM
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A more accurate headline might be:
Arrogant, egotistical people 'less likely to believe in God'
RJE
on June 13, 2008
at 08:20 PM
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Hebrews 11: "Faith is the evidence of things not seen." Science is the evidence of things seen. They are incompatible. The best an intelligent person with spiritual beliefs can do is to understand that while he or she may believe an article of faith, that there is no rational argument to prove that belief. It is a mark of intelligence, actually, to entertain mutually exclusive concepts in one's mind.
psmarc93
on June 13, 2008
at 08:20 PM
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Faith isn't linked to intelligence or IQ, but to education. The more we learn about the world around us, contrived supernatural explanations become increasingly less relevant. Its as simple as that. With education comes exposure to history, science, and comparative religions, all of which help to empower people to think for themselves, and approach the world in an enlightened, rational way.
shara says
on June 13, 2008
at 08:18 PM
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Whoa all the comments got deleted! Anyway I'll say it again, any reliance on logic/ the scientific method is every bit as silly as a belief in god because they both always contain margin for error. There is a huge difference between rationality and causality, the former relies on the latter and is encompassed by it. If you replace the word god with the word causality you get the heart of many peoples' spiritual beliefs. Is that any dumber than believing in man's attempt to understand and manipulate reality (a.k.a. science). The answer is no. The only truth is that truth which is mysterious and elusive. IMO any belief is religious and anything other than belief is nihilism.
Johnny B
on June 13, 2008
at 08:15 PM
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It seems that non-belief is linked not with IQ but rather with education. Many of the most effective and charasmatic religious leaders (the "true believers" as it were) have been people of very high intelligence and very low education. However, even those of average intelligence are able to grasp the gross contradictions of faith and reject the mythologies of religion given only a modest education.
Michael H.
on June 13, 2008
at 08:15 PM
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What happens to smart people when you add religion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh0eM4tAISQ
CK
on June 13, 2008
at 08:15 PM
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"...most primary school children believed in God..." Chidren that age believe in God (and Father Christmas too) because it is what they are told by their parents. It isn't belief so much as unquestioning acceptance by children who have no reason to think they are being lied to.
Nick
on June 13, 2008
at 08:14 PM
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The people of the world, of whatever intelligence will look to religion or science to seek answers to the impossible questions in life.Sometimes it is easier to blindly follow another's instructions, whether a scientist or a religious leader, rather than make your own decisions on what is right or wrong. Is science just the new religion?
Susan
on June 13, 2008
at 08:13 PM
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What about the Greeks, were they not smart and yet far more saturated in religion than we are today?
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