Rajinder Puri
Mahatma Gandhi had earlier said that India could be partitioned only over his dead body. The Partition occurred but Gandhi remained alive. He was not afraid of death. Then why did he not redeem his pledge?
This is my personal interpretation of Mahatma Gandhi’s response to the Partition based on the consideration of his words and deeds at different times.
Gandhi had earlier said that India could be partitioned only over his dead body. The Partition occurred but Gandhi remained alive. When sceptics taunted Gandhi about this his former secretary and biographer, Peareylal, recorded that Gandhi would angrily lash out at his critics and say should he kill himself just to satisfy others? Even Gandhi’s most trenchant critics cannot deny his courage. He was not afraid of death. Then why did he not redeem his pledge?
My interpretation: For Gandhi the fight to keep India and Pakistan united was not ended. He was still struggling for his goal. He was following that old adage: Those who fight and run away, live to fight another day!
This view is reinforced by earlier events. When the Congress Working Committee (CWC) was to pass its formal resolution to accept Partition on June 3, 1947 Gandhi observed his day of silence. Why?
My interpretation: Gandhi had realized that he had been outsmarted by the British. They had successfully isolated him from Nehru and Patel. Only young firebrands Jayaprakash Narain and Ram Manohar Lohia supported Gandhi’s view in the CWC. To retain the option of opposing the CWC resolution later Gandhi refrained from any personal endorsement of the resolution. He did this by observing a day of silence.
On June 2, one day before the Partition resolution was to be passed by the CWC, Lord Mountbatten visited Gandhi to seek reassurance that Gandhi would not create hurdles. “Mr Gandhi,” Lord Mountbatten asked. “I hope you will not oppose my (Mountbatten Plan to partition India ) plan?” Gandhi on his day of silence wrote on a scrap of paper: “Have I ever opposed you?”
My interpretation: As a lawyer Gandhi chose his words with care. He did not write that he would not oppose Mountbatten. He put the counter question whether he had ever opposed Mountbatten.
After the Partition Gandhi’s actions revealed his resolve to keep trying for total Indo-Pakistan reconciliation. He went on a fast to compel the Indian government to pay Pakistan adequate compensation. This strengthened his credibility with Pakistan . It pleased Mountbatten. But Gandhi’s subsequent actions could not have pleased British authorities.
Gandhi wrote to Jinnah seeking permission to settle down in Pakistan in order to work for Indo-Pakistan unity. Jinnah concurred. He invited Gandhi to Karachi . Gandhi sought permission to settle down in Lahore with 50 Punjabi refugee families then settled in Delhi ’s Purana Quila camp. One member of the Punjabi families that had volunteered to accompany Gandhi in his march to Lahore was historian KK Khullar, then 16 years old. The plan to start the march on February 14, 1948 was finalized. On January 30th Nathuram Godse killed Gandhi.
There are several unanswered questions about Gandhi’s murder. Godse travelled from Bombay to Delhi to kill Gandhi. In Bombay he stayed in a house under strict surveillance of the Intelligence Bureau because its occupant was known to possess illegal firearms. There had been five attempts on Gandhi’s life before Godse killed him. Yet Godse was not apprehended. Was he manipulated as, some theorists claim, was President Kennedy’s assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, decades later? That aspect deserves a separate article. But suffice to say that after Gandhi’s murder Jayaprakash Narain accused the Home Ministry of criminal negligence, hinting at complicity, in the murder of Gandhi.
Did Gandhi have premonition of his death? Writing his last will and testament by which he sought the dissolution of the Congress as a political party on the very day of his assassination was a striking coincidence.,
It may be seen that Gandhi might have erred in his tactics. His realization about Mountbatten’s intentions came too late. Mountbatten arrived in February 1947. By March tension had been created in the Punjab by riots that killed 1000 people. That was seized by the CWC to partition the Punjab assembly between West and East Punjab in March itself. This was even before the Congress had consented in June to Partition the country! It should have alerted Gandhi to what was about to happen.
Gandhi’s judgment may be questioned. His integrity was unimpeachable. He never wavered in his commitment to the agenda of uniting Hindus and Muslims even after Pakistan had been formed. In the end he was defeated. The forces arraigned against him were too powerful. But has his agenda been defeated? This scribe believes that history’s final verdict on that is still not out.
Oct 03, 2009 06:44 PM
100
Seshadri,
>> I have not celebrated the death of any individuals.....
Your glee could hardly be hidden upon the deaths of YSR and Kakare.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 06:39 PM
99
Sandilya,
>> Envy, they say is like evil eye and strikes.
You are mostly a rational man, but it seems some traces of superstitiousness remain!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 06:34 PM
98
Sandilya,
>> But in general people tend to accept that the basic core got to be right. That core is surely related to lineage. It explains why there are more accomplished people and Nobel Laureates among close blood relatives than compared to general populace.
Many Nobel laureates are not related to any laureates. The few who are prove the environmental theory as much as the genetic one.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 05:32 PM
97
"his commitment to the agenda of uniting Hindus and Muslims even after Pakistan had been formed "
Let us shift the goal posts and examine this postulate :
1.Hindus in India could have never united with the West Pakistani Muslims who had cleanised them from West Pakistan even all the efforts of Gandhi.
2.Hindus in the East Pakistan and now Bangladesh though not treated well but are still able to live there.Bangali Muslims and Hindus paid dearly in 1970-71 being soft targets of Punjabi Muslims.
Even if Gandhi lived longer he could have preached only but could have never made any dent in the feelings of Hindus against Pakistani Muslims and vice versa.
3.About unity among Indian Muslims and Hindus. Was there really any need for Gandhi to try to bring them together ? Could the Muslims in India have stayed on during pre and post 1947 period if Hindus were adamnet to send them to Pakistan ? If we talk of constitutional rights of Muslims- Yes they had and have full rights .But these rights were mercilessly crushed for a year or so from August 1946 to 5 th February 1948(the cut off date to migrate) .
Gandhi could have hardly done anything if the Hindus insited to follow the Pakistani Muslims' path.
Can we deny today that Indian Muslims are much much better than the Bangladeshi and Pakistani Muslims.Rather they are even better than Muslims in many Islamic Countries. Could this have happened without Hindus'co-operation and their affinity with Muslims ??
Indian Muslims are prospering even 62 yrs after Mahatma was killed.It will be a debatable point after some time whether Mahatma and Congress has harmed Muslims with patronisation.I am of the firm view Muslims could have done better but for Congress and Seculars who are interested in Minority Votes only .
Still Hindus are the most misunderstood ,abused and villified race in India itself.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2009 05:00 PM
96
gayatri/banito/lalit
Agree to disagree again that:
"all the young or old indians who have made it have done so on the basis of western thinking. india has produced religious gurus - nothing in the area of philosophy. if you feel india can match britain, or the west"
why not? If China can we can too ... all we need is will to do it ...
I did publish my email address for you here in these columns before but heard nothing from you ...
Have a nice week-end. Got to go now ... to look for a new car for the wife ... she wants an Audi again ... any suggestions ?
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 03, 2009 04:58 PM
95
gayatri/banito/lalit
Agree to disagree again that:
"all the young or old indians who have made it have done so on the basis of western thinking.
india has produced religious gurus - nothing in the
area of philosophy.
if you feel india can match britain, or the west"
why not? If China we can too ... all we need is will to do it ...
I did publish my email address for you here in these columns before but heard nothing from you ...
Have a nice week-end. Got to go now ... to look for a new car for the wife ... she wants an Audi again ... any suggestions ?
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 03, 2009 04:20 PM
94
vijay aggarwal
i think on the lines of v.s.naipaul-
nirad chaudri was also a great admirer of britain
as well. completely eccentric, but a admirable chap,
in many ways.
india is emulateing the west in most things-even the
bad ones. the west is for change, new thinking.
india is for tradition, status quo.
all the young or old indians who have made it have
done so on the basis os western thinking.
india has produced religious gurus- nothing in the
area of philosophy.
if you feel india can match britain,or the west i have nothing more to say.
you still deserve my compliment of being a good old egg.
can you send me your mail adress.
best gayatri, bajrangbbhai,banito,lalit, ganpat ram,
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 04:08 PM
93
sandy
these are the qualifications of being a liberal in india-as defined by the secularists in this forum
aaa you must love pakistan more then you love india.
bbb you must reject the white imperialist nations.
they have done nothing for india. they ill treat the
poor coloured immigrants who out of pure good will
wish to live in their countries.
ccc you must never never say a word against the prophet,the koran- this is blasphemy.
ddd you must single out for abuse the bjp, sangh, neo nazists who refuse further muslim immigration.
eee you must support all muslim causes- palestine arabs, muslims in kashmir.
fff you must hate modi for the gujerat massacre,advani
for demolishing the magnificent babri masjid, and love and respect justice banerjee for his very fair judgement regarding the godhra incident.
after you qualify you will be embraced by the
mullahs,padres of the secular community.
perish the thought-nothing for people of good taste-
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 04:07 PM
92
Gayatri/Lalit/banito
Yes, I agree to disagree with you that "India would have been like Nepal or Afghanistan" had the British not come to India ... no disrespect but one wonders from your posts what did you learn from your studies ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 03, 2009 03:42 PM
91
L:>>"there is a saying in german:" those whom the gods wish to destroy ,they first make them mad".
I did not come across that during my yrs of syay in germany.
there is an equivalent saying in sanskrit: 'vinaaSa-kaale vipareeta-buddhih', individuals or civilizns get wrong ideas when their downfall becomes due.
>>" i hope that their death wish is full filled".
do not worry, a hundred osamas or a thousand musharreffs cannot destroy the eternal civilizn of mother india. evils get maximally devish only when their termination is imminent.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2009 03:30 PM
90
A:>>"Seshadri celebrating the deaths of YSR and Karkare?"
I have not celebrated the death of any individuals. nothing important, all born must die one day, any way. sentimentalism does not synchronize with spirituality.
I have only been celebrating the timely intervention of lord keSava = naaraayaNa = venkaTeSa to save mother india from serious problems.
if kasab had died and karkare survived, sonia-antulay raj and the crypto-chr patels shivraj, RR, would have framed the whole mumbai event as only a hindutva-driven terror-act, blaming the hindus of india for the death of jews and americans in taj hotel. sonia could have dis-enfrachised all hindus in india, declaring an indira-type emergency, supported by the chinese people's army!. western countries would have agreed.
Lord kesava saved india.
In ysr's case, if he had continued another term as CM, he would have converted the major part of AP to the church, as he probably promised jesus, in pilgrimmage to jerusalem. but then he did not know that jesus Himself had 'returned' into hinduism, as skanda, to be with his uncle naarayan in tirumala. No wonder, then, that the tail hill of the seven-hills of tirupathi itself terminated him. sonia has not agreed for his son to succeed him!.
now, even the self-idolizing film-stars in india's politics will all realize that there is a really powerful God above all them, also. I am only celebrating the SaaSwata-dharma-goptaa protecting sanaatana-dharma-samsthaa in sapta-sindhu-bharata-kanDa. not the death of any individuals, really.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2009 02:46 PM
89
i have studied international history, european history,
and political philosopy for three years-
this was before i started on engineering studies.
i learnt a lot of history reading winston churchills
war memoirs- 5 big volumes. this covered the rise and fall of the third reich.
the french revolution and napolean were my favourites
period in history.i can still recall some of the characters- legendre the butcher- madam defarge, robespierre, danton and many other colourful characters.
i have studied marx and lenin, and quite a bit about
the evolution of democracy and the industrial revolution.
ofcource i am not so well read as some of the posters,
and islamic scholars, who have a king sized inferiority
complex-
i believe that all matters are uo for debate in liberal
societies.
aaa religions and idealogy
bbb race and nations
ccc population, climate and environment
i just read a article written by irfan hussain in dawn-
" whereas we tend to get emotional about muslim causes
in far off countries, we tend to forget problems of
ignorance, hunger,disease in pakistan"
pakistani,s are disdainful about the 1.5 billion usd
aid they will get for 5 years. it is peanuts some of
them say.
well no one is forceing them to take this aid. it
defys reason that people can think like this.
it is a failure of reason and commonsense-
why are some posters so full of hate against western
countries, who have helped india for so many years.
why are they so fond of pakistan when we have been attacked so many times by them-
there is a saying in german
" those whom the gods wish to destroy ,they first make them mad" i hope that their death wish is full filled.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 02:00 PM
88
sexchanged-gayathri--"you are one of the unread
mindless zombies who does not know the difference
between chalk and cheese, "
True but i can spot a moron a mile away. There is
only that much knowledge you can gather from
Frederick Forsythes voluminous 'history of the World' !
By your own admission a cheap, dime store, trashy
novelist is your intellectual frame of reference.
Your posts should be discarded immediately on arrival.
"starting the debate i made a remark about negroes,
and said it is possible that in view of their
performance they could be less intellectually endowed
then the whites and asians."
You are a racist with incredibly low self-esteem. Get some help.
"i can understand why people buy skin whiteners-
now this is meant as a joke. i dont want the usual
suspects to get a fit, and start attacking me."
This is pathetic !
"you are a cowardly scum bag who is scared of the real
bigots like mullah omar, but play safe by attacking
western liberals like me.under a pseudo name. "
This is utter non-sense. Despite your courageous attempts at changing your gender you are no liberal !! You are not a Westerner either. You are about as far from being a liberal as Himmler was ! You are a good slave though who defends the rights of his master. Admirable.
"Gayatri Devi
Hats off to you.
As far as I know, you are the only woman regularly posting on this website."
As far as i know the sex-change operation was successful. All thats left now is
a lobotomy.
siddharth--"There is hardly a single spiritual advice in the whorish, dog-eared Koran. "
Unlike the virtous wisdom sprouting from the lips of
slutty nypmhs running circles around Ram ... or is it
Krishna ... same shit.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2009 01:42 PM
87
>> why has there been so little comment on Seshadri celebrating the deaths of YSR and Karkare?
Anwaar
You mean from me?
My beliefs border on agnostism and I practice very little religion but I do have some beliefs like one should be extremely cautious when the going is too good.
At the time of his death YSR was at the height of his political and economic power and looked God like to many. But he earned lots of envy also. Envy, they say is like evil eye and strikes. And as if to lend credence to that belief he met an untimely death. I learnt a lesson in that when going is good keep a close tab on what is going on around.
Somewhat shocked, I rather remained oblivious to any correspondence on his death. It was quite tragic and no comments on a departed soul.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 01:25 PM
86
>> if black and white children grow up in equally enriched environments, the I.Q. differences narrow until they disappear.
Anwaar
Even today no one is really sure about the play of intelligence. But surely both nature and nurture play a role. But in general people tend to accept that the basic core got to be right. That core is surely related to lineage. It explains why there are more accomplished people and Nobel Laureates among close blood relatives than compared to general populace.
If the core is right even an under educated will do well than a highly educated. Don't we have some dumb Phds and extraordinary gifted entrepreneurs with little education? So it is nature which is supreme.
Nurturing is simply like a goldsmith shaping a jewel. If both Gold and the gold smith are of right quality a beautiful piece emerges.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 12:19 PM
85
After celebrating and singing Vaishnava Janato..on Gandhi Jayanti day and changing the name of NREGA the Quota Congress whores are very happy. Not one quota whore has really bothered about the massive floods in Andhra and Karnataka. When a CM died the quota beggars were rushing planes and helicopters and had even asked NASA for help. But lakhs are marooned and crying for basic necessities and not one Quota politician seems to relent. I am sure these Congress monstrous goondas will ask for increase in quotas for the flood affected soon after the tragedy. The Congress goondas will be banking upon the quota titillation to fool the people. But a day is soon to come when these ruling quota goondas will be stamped to death by the very people they fooled.
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 11:59 AM
84
Sandilya,
While some difference in opinion exists, the majority opinion holds that I.Q. differences are not genetic but environmental, which means that if black and white children grow up in equally enriched environments, the I.Q. differences narrow until they disappear.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 11:50 AM
83
>> Arun Shourie records in his book that the muslims had a serious dilemma on whether or not to pray for Gandhi after his death since as a non muslim he was not entitled to it.
Shourie can be expected to make hay from such tidbits, but why has there been so little comment on Seshadri celebrating the deaths of YSR and Karkare?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 11:49 AM
82
and the conclusion is that if all factors are controlled and accounted for, no racial differences in intellectual capability can be substantiated.
Anwaar
This is quite true in respect of athletics,sports and music.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 11:32 AM
81
But saying that Muslims liked or praised Gandhi is hogwash.
vijay
You are right. Arun Shourie records in his book that the muslims had a serious dilemma on whether or not to pray for Gandhi after his death since as a non muslim he was not entitled to it. Finally the move to pray in Masjids was dropped.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 11:29 AM
80
Gayatri/Lalit,
>> it is possible that in view of their performance they could be less intellectually endowed then the whites and asians.
The subject has been very contentious among psychologists and other social scietists for the past 60 years, has been researched copiously by several groups, and the conclusion is that if all factors are controlled and accounted for, no racial differences in intellectual capability can be substantiated. Many racists however still continue to maintain their old prejudices.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 11:18 AM
79
Ghai,
>> Godse's accusations of Gandhi's Muslims' appeasement policies.
What Gandhi thought was fairness, Godse considered appeasement.
>> Majority of the North Indians and Bangalies specially refugees believe that Godse's was right.
Majority of posters in this forum maybe, but in the real world things are different.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 10:12 AM
78
>> it is possible that in view of their performance they could be less intellectually endowed then the whites and asians.
We think alike (post @ 3:04:49 PM)
Lalit
Yeah, I agree. I have views similar to you. Very often I see your replies as something I wanted to reply myself. Your posts are unpretentious and pepped with sense of humour.
Your reply posted @ 2:19:22 PM (IST) is more or less similar in content to that I had posted earlier when I questioned the double standards of media which had gone overboard to celebrate Castro’s dictatorship of> 50 years as though it were a genuinely mandated legitimate rule.
Freedom of speech has allowed us to say what we want to say but unfortunately often we are carried away too much by political correctness. Of course you could say the above statement unafraid of. I appreciate that. Time people talked sense even if it is politically incorrect and separate chalk from cheese rather than nod the head to say both are same. That is the beginning of decadence.
How many can say what you have said though in private they would surely accept it as a fact as the current state of African countries reflect . Many of these countries got independence long ago and so long ago that they have had enough time to build their countries as they envisioned before demanding freedom.
After WWII total destruction, Europe and Japan were rebuilt in fifteen years flat. But sad reality is that except South Africa none of the African nations are doing well. I want to hear what our anti imperialist intellectuals have to say on Mugabe’s misrule. Are the Zimbabwians happier now than then?
Note that later a country got independence the better it is!!!
Hong Kong is the last to become free in the series and it is at the far end of the spectrum of better states than the one on the other end of the spectrum like Afghanistan which remained elusive to imperial rule. We stand in between; where as Malaysia and Singapore which got freedom later than us are better off in many respects.
At the time of our independence Madras city was said to be far better than Singapore. Now any comparison? Inference? It takes time for modern but alien systems and methods to take roots, and we got freedom before the latter got consolidated. Our courts and health are examples of poor copying of western methods. They are caricature of Western systems. Justice Dinakaran is an example of all that has gone wrong.
You might have heard of John Locke of eighteenth century whose ideas influenced western liberal thinking. He is the one who said man is born with certain natural rights- such as the right to liberty- that existed in a state of nature. I do not know if Tilak borrowed this when he said “Freedom is my birth right,.”
This John Locke belived that Africans were inferior to Europeans. Another contemporary of him David Hume also suspected negroes to be inferior to whites. His Quote: “There scarcely ever was a civilised nation of that complexion nor even any individual eminent in action or speculation”. If anyone said this now he would be called insane. But Hume was a respected philosopher and intellect.
I do not know how many care to recognize that the cruel apartheid was practiced in Africa but not in India. Thanks to the earlier achievements of Indians in literature, architecture and astronomy and maths we were seen merely as orientals with different approach than unaccomplished nation of hermits.
I have noted the rich acknowledgement of our intellectual abilities by the British as published by Royal commission on Public Services in India. The commission argues for parity of pay for Indian officers with the Europeans on this basis! And that was in 1880s before Congress was born!
So the Britts practiced different strokes for different folks!!
sandilya
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 09:28 AM
77
Many Indians have not yet realized the horrendous implications of a cult called Islam thanks to the Congress quota whores’ sustained propaganda that Islam means “peace.” Gandhi by hobnobbing with this evil created confusion in the minds of average Indians. The evil was made to look smaller in size and unthreatening. So effective has been the Congress propaganda over the years that even educated Indians are surprised when told about the detailed instructions in the monstrous Koran against Kafirs and especially the Hindus.
Early man at the dawn of civilization had deduced that there has to be one God as there is one water, one air or one fire. Likewise there is one blood. A Muslim does not have green (Allah’s colour) blood or Chinese with yellow blood or American with blue blood. Despite his place of origin or his upbringing a human being is the same everywhere. A heart surgeon who can operate a Muslim can operate a Christian or an aborigine with the same tools, techniques and knowledge. But how come the Prophet attacks Hindus with so much hatred and venom that he creates through the bogus Allah a special, brutal Hell for Hindus? He calls Hindus as not simply kafirs, but kafirs of the worst kind, as they are idol worshipers (or mushriks). As a punishment for this fault as well as for the most serious fault of creating partners to Allah by way of worshiping other gods, Hindus, he says, would be thrown into Havia, the most tormenting Hell, where the flames of hell-fire would reach one’s scalp.
Mohammad’s Hell is 70 times more intense than the ordinary fire. Allah has created seven categories of Hell for different kinds of kafirs and the intensity of fire and height of the flames will be different in these Hells. In some Hell, fire will reach the ankles, somewhere it will reach the knees, somewhere to the waist and somewhere to the collar-bone (Sahih Muslim: 6815, 6816). He targets Hindus with such extraordinary venom that he terms them as worst kind of kafirs or mushriks. While the Jews and Christians, for their merit of not being idolatrous, would be thrown into less tormenting Hells.
Allah schedule in Hell is busy. In this eternal Hell-fire, this monstrous Allah would roast the kafirs again and again and again, and every time He will replace their skins with new ones, so that they could suffer this inhuman torture without any pause” (Koran- 4:56). There will be no death for the inmates of the Paradise and no death for the inmates of the Hell (SM: 6827, 6829), AND THIS ANNOUNCEMENT WILL INCREASE THE DELIGHT OF THE DWELLERS OF THE PARADISE, while it would increase the grief of the inmates of the Hell (SM: 6830). Furthermore, the kafirs in Hell would have very strange appearances. For example, the molar teeth or the canine teeth of an unbeliever in Hell would be like Uhud (a hill in the neighbourhood of Mecca) and the thickness of his skin would be three night’s journey (SM: 6831) and the distance between his two shoulders would also be three night’s journey for a swift rider (SM: 6832). Muhammad has seen Amr bin Luhayy bin Qama, brother of Bani Ka’b, dragging his intestines in Hell fire (SM:6838), for the sin of introducing idolatry in Arabia.
While the unbelievers will perish in Hell, the believers, though fallen and evil doers, will joyfully enter Allah’s Paradise where rivers of pure water, milk, pure honey and divine wine are flowing and the Koran says: “Allah will do away with their foulest deeds” (39:35).
It is too laborious to describe in detail Allah’s paradise as mentioned in Koran. Allah himself says, “The righteous shall surely dwell in bliss. Reclining upon soft couches they will gaze around them; and in their faces you shall mark the glow of joy. To dark-eyes houris, We shall wed them. Fruits we shall give them, and such meats as they desire. They will pass from hand to hand a cup inspiring no idle talk, and there shall wait on them YOUNG BOYS of their own as Fair as virgin pearls” (52:17-24). Allah’s brothel has extra enjoyment other than houris to satisfy the unsatiated lust of its mad followers with young boys to sodomize. It is not clear why mullahs are screaming against Delhi HC judgment decriminalizing gays? If Allah approves homosexuality are not the mullahs defaming Islam by opposing the judgment?
The chief attractions of Allah’s Paradise are houris. With so much houris and young boys to be had Allah has also appointed an announcer to avoid any discomfort to the reclining Islamic murderers. “There would be an announcer in Paradise who would make this announcement: Verily, there is in store for you (everlasting) health and that you should never fall ill and that you live (for ever) and do not die at all. And that you would remain young and never grow old. …This is Paradise. You have been made to inherit it for what you used to do” (Sahih Muslim: 6803).
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 08:48 AM
76
"So you want Godse to be elevated to sainthood ?"
Faruki
He was hanged as per Law for his act of killing Gandhi .But History has yet to give its judgement on Gandhi and History has also to give its verdict on Godse's accusations of Gandhi's Muslims' appeasement policies and forcing the Constitunational Govt of India to heed to his whims .
It may be a question of morality for some to give Rs 55 Crores to Pakistan when Kabayali Hordes were looting ,raping ,burning Kashmir .India was at War with Pakistan and Gandhi forced Nehru to finance Pakistani War against India.
From National point of view it is plain treason GADDARI on part of Gandhi and Nehru .
"All assassins have justifications based on their hate dogmas, and some of them do build up a small following of like minded bigots."
Small following ?? Majority of the North Indians and Bangalies specially refugees believe that Godse's was right.Their tribe is increasing .Thanks to Islamic Terrorism .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2009 08:17 AM
75
Gandhi was a worldly wise leader. Wasn’t he aware that Prophet Mohammad engineered his Islam to rest on a tripod of treachery, butchery and debauchery? Or should we assume naively that Gandhi did not read history of Muslim treachery and butchery? The prophet of doom had told his followers to spread Islam using the tripod and the best way was to butcher kafirs and satisfy blood thirsty Allah.
Many of us are not aware that we owe our Hindu existence to the sacrifices made by the Sikh gurus and the Sikhs. Had not Sikhs (and Marathas) fought the evil Islam many of us today would have been reading namaaz in a asthma-filled cavernous mosque. India would have been booming with 80 per cent Muslims.
Early in 1675, a group of Kashmiri brahmins visited Anandpur to seek Guru Tegh Bahadur's(father of last guru Guru Gobind Singh) advice. Aurangzeb had ordered the forced conversion of all Hindus and thought that if the respected Kashmiri brahmins accepted Islam, others in the country would be easily converted. They had been given six months to decide or suffer the consequences. Time was running out! Tegh Bahadur advised the brahmins to return to their village and tell the authorities that they would accept Islam if “Guru Tegh Bahadur could first be persuaded to do so.” The guru was called to Delhi and put to death by the rapacious Islamic monster Aurangzeb who has been glorified in NCERT textbooks by Indira Gandhi’s goons. Shortly afterwards Tegh Bahadur’s son Gobind Rai became the 10th and last guru. There was no respite from Islamic monsters. The Moghals captured Guru Gobind's mother and his youngest two sons, aged 9 and 7, and bricked them alive. After the two kids died of suffocation the Islamic monsters beheaded the children and delivered their heads to their grandmother who died of shock at the sight.
I wonder when Islamic monsters do namaaz rocking back and forth what exactly they pray for. There is actually nothing in Koran to pray for except Prophet’s instigation to kill the kafirs and be rewarded with a chance of going to Allah’s brothel where the killers will be copulating with billions of heavenly damsels or houris round the clock. But what would be the nature of ejaculation of such copulations? When a companion of the Prophet asked him to enlighten him on this matter the Prophet said that, ejaculation of semen in Allah’s brothel would be entirely different from an ejaculation in this world:
• Firstly, the semen on an inmate of Allah’s brothel would be a puff of fragrant air and an ejaculation of this peculiar semen would give the inmates a million times more pleasure than and worldly ejaculation.
• Secondly, the worldly ejaculation diminishes the vigour and energy of the man. But it would be entirely opposite in Allah’s brothel. An ejaculation in Allah’s brothel would increase the vigour of the inmate by million times.
There is hardly a single spiritual advice in the whorish, dog-eared Koran. Islam is perversely called a religion giving a new twist to the word "religion." Koran has brought nothing but death, destruction and viral disease to mankind. Yet this strange religion’s blood thirst has not yet been satiated despite ocean of blood having flowed on this unfortunate earth. I am sure Gandhi knew Islam's unquenched thirst for blood and gore as one would know the properties of fire. The barbarism has been continuous down the ages and yet Gandhi ignored it trying to mix oil and water by saying "Ishwar Allah tero naam!". If stupidty should get Oscar this would be it. Today Congress quota whores too have embraced Islam some on the sly some openly. Congress whores manipulate depraved Islamic monsters to win every elections be it assembly of the Lok Sabha. I hope Islam soon goes the way the communist went in Mother Russia. But the scars inflicted by the gory and utterly evil Casanova Prophet Mohammad on this earth will remain for ages to come.
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 03, 2009 07:18 AM
74
>> Gandhi appealed to bring sanity to the situation. At some level, as a Hindu, he might have seen himself as a representative of hindus, to reach out to the Muslims.
Whatever he may have perceived himself, and whatever might be the motivation for his appeal, if he made one sided demands, as pointed out by Ganesan via Godse's statement, he was wrong.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2009 06:21 AM
73
KUMAR(to Gayatri Devi),
There is a wrong thinking that the moment one digs at the Sangha Parivar he becomes an upright secular.Thats bullshit.
Indians have always condemned terrorism of any hue starting with the Muslims terrorism,christian missionaries terrorism,The Naxalism,The Maoism,ULFA,LTTE etc. But pseudo secular's would keep their ugly and stinking mouth off when we hear the atrocities and violence perpetrated by those fringes and lumpen elements said earlier while they will stand on their toes if they get anything to dig at the Sangha Parivar.There is no discrimination however by majority of Indians when extremism is concerned.How many of the people like you are consistent and have condemned what is happening and what has so far happened in Kashmir.You better learn to practice what you preach and stop searching for the worms in some one else's wounds.
Gandhi is no doubt a unique person through his time tested Gandhigiri,swarajya and sathyagraha.Every great person has blundered once in a while.So is one Gandhi and so are several other Gandhis after him who paid heavily.Gandhi used to say that the partition of the country will only take place over his dead body but he ultimately succumbed to false secular notions and the web sewn by the likes of Nehru and his legacy that led him to blunder in finally agreeing for the partition against wishes of the large section of the Indians.The man who kept such a close and down to earth contact and relationships with the people was hiding the story of agreeing to partition in the background which led to his assassination.But saying that Muslims liked or praised Gandhi is hogwash.The Muslims are known to have conspired with the British for the creation of Pakistan and back stabbing the Indian freedom movement.You better appreciate this fact.
vijay
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2009 05:34 AM
72
Gayatri/Lalit,
>> i decided that i would not go down on my knees and pray to god for help.
Your right not to pray is as sacred to me as someone else's right to pray.
>> can you honestly believe that i would suck up to anyone at all.
Getting along is not the same thing as sucking up. Insulting Bengalis or UP-ites or Sikhs or Muslims shows neither courage nor character.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 05:30 AM
71
Pretty interesting analysis. Well, there'e been number of critical analysis of Gandhi, from 'sublime failure' to 'miserable failure', mostly in political sense, and in some sense even Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed failed. Partition of India was a failure in the decades long political career of Gandhi. Columnists like Rajinder Puri may make stupid statements that Gandhi's words did not match with his action, since he didn't kill himself after the partition after having declared that the proposed partition of India can only take place over his dead body. But, the words of Einstein about Gandhi really sums up his character,"Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this, ever in flesh and blood, walked upon this earth”, and that is what we need to cherish. It's not for nothing great thinkers and world leaders have taken inspiration and praised Gandhi for his teachings and ideals of nonviolence, which had led Martin Luther King Jr. on his 1959 pilgrimage to India, transformed American society through civil rights movement.
Shyamal Barua
kolkata, India
Oct 03, 2009 04:25 AM
70
kumar
i am no friend of sanghis- they are much too backward
for my tastes.
however they are not like the ss or the gestapo.
if they were then they would have made life miserable for minorities- they are more like sheep in sheeps clothings.
maybe they would be respected more if they wore boots,
black uniforms with the swastik emblem.
the constant demoniseing of the sangh borders on insanity. meanwhile you go around ignoreing the real enemies, who have bombed indian cities,
last time it was in mumbai- get your brain cells checked for memory and just a bit of commonsense.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 04:15 AM
69
faruki
for some time now i have had huge problems-banks,
lawyers, and so forth.
however i decided that i would not go down on my knees
and pray to god for help. if i met god, i would sock him on the chin.
can you honestly believe that i would suck up to anyone
at all. hell never. i leave it to creeps ,who are fanatics, pray several times a day,light candles
or give donations to temples.
yes i think poorly of bongos. they are a maddening
crowd, and with not one guy in bengal with any sense.
all right i think that sikhs should enter the 21 century, and not force their children to wear turbans,
knives etc and be mobbed by their school mates.
i think muslim men should stop wearing skull caps,
and the burqas should be burnt in a bonfire on
guy fawkes day.
does all of this make me a bigot,or a fanatic.
furthermore it is the right of europeans to decide
whom they want to accept, and whom to reject.
it is a fact that pakistani,s are unwelcome and a
burden on britain. they are a constant problem,.
what you are demanding is a welcome for muslims to
enter and be allowed to settle down.
do you make such demands from the arabs. hell no.
strange is it not,that you demand so much from people
of another race,another culture and religion, and
so little from fellow muslims. you are the fanatic,
who can not see this as being thoroughly unreasoneable.
it makes me sick to read your bias against white people, your constant moaning and whineing and claims that they have a devine ordained duty to admit all kinds of weirdos.
hell mr jinnah would agree with me. kamal attaturk would be on my side.
only the real mullahs , missionary choir boys would call me a fanatic.
the prisiness, hypocracy , prejudice, and false saintliness of some posters make me puke.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 03:41 AM
68
Gayatri Devi,
>> you and kumar share a passion of demoniseing the sanghi,s
Why should there be a discrimination while condemning violent religious extremists? Your passionate support for such elements is for you to worry about. Be consistent in condemning of violent extremists and be consistent in assertion of rights/justice of people and much of your troubles in this forum will disappear.
>> i can understand why most muslims praise gandhi
Most people of all religions, nationalities praise Gandhi. That’s because most people can comprehend and appreciate the greatness in ideas like reaching out to people, desiring justice even for people of other community/race etc. If most Muslims do praise Gandhi, I appreciate that.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2009 03:16 AM
67
Gayatri/Lalit,
>> on islam i agree with the speeches i have heard ...
Religion was not being discussed. Whenever you and other hate-pracharaks like Seshadri lose an argument, you attack religion or the "mullahs". I called you a neo-Nazi nutcase because you have applauded extreme right wing European politicians who are against "colored" immigration, expressed your hatred of Indians in genreral and of "Bongos", UP-ites and Sikhs in particular, and have even boasted that you are white-skinned! In any case it is idiotic to bring in religion when discussing political creeds such as the RSS, the Congress, the Muslim League, the neo-Nazis or the neocons.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 03:04 AM
66
Gayatri Devi
Hats off to you.
As far as I know, you are the only woman regularly posting on this website.
Your postings are full of blunt commonsense. They show more sense than that of nearly all the men here !
Some of your language is a bit over the top for a lady.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 03, 2009 03:01 AM
65
ANWAAR berates assassins, yet on this very website he has repeatedly adulated as "freedom fighters" the Afghan mojahedin - some of the worst throat-slitters the world has ever seen, mercilessly cruel to Hindus, Sikhs and ther own women.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 03, 2009 02:48 AM
64
VARUN
I find this whining about Partition by Hindus utterly ridiculous.
It was of course accompanied by great and tragic human losses.
But why don't these miracles of brainlessness ask what was the alternative?
An India with 25 per cent Muslim population was by 1946 in fearsome danger of being reduced to total shambles by Musim-Hindu riots and massacres. Do they suppose an India united with the Pakis and the Bangladeshis, about 35 per cent Muslim and increasingly so all the time - with as prospective Muslim majority in a cfew decades - would be peaceful?
How stupid do you have to be to believe that?
Don't we KNOW what Muslims are like, by now? How stubborn, how ferociously communal? How contemptuous of a free, critical culture?
In 1946, the Interim government to prepare Independence headed by Nehru was utterly stalled by pig-headed Muslim determination to obstruct each and every measure.
Even Nehru, inclined to make endless excuses for Muslims, was completely exhausted and disillusioned. As he said, even Partition was better than this descent into governmental paralysis and social mass killing.
He saw that the choice was either a smaller India with a strong government, or the bigger India without any semblance of unity and with the Muslims able to veto everything they chose. Either be the hostages of Muslim blackmailers and mass murderers, or accept Pakistan. That was Nehru's choice.
Nehru chose Pakistan.
How can we blame him now?
Gandhi led Hindus to the edge of doom with his naive policies toward Muslims.
As good fortune would have it, Nehru pulled us back at the last moment.
Hats off to him !!!!
Put this antiquated donkey Puri out to grass.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 03, 2009 02:33 AM
63
Gayatri Devi,
>> on islam i agree with the speeches i have heard along with many others from exmuslims.
You are welcome to join them in criticism of Islam (or any religion that you chose to criticize).
>> there is absolutely no hate for you or muslims ...
And you should assert the rights/justice of all innocent citizens and human beings. That’s when you can take the first step to call yourself a liberal.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2009 01:01 AM
62
faruki
we agree on climate change, population growth,and
perhaps on choice of wines and music.
we disagree when you call me a fascist nut,and when i point out what i believe is right.
on islam i agree with the speeches i have heard along
with many others from exmuslims. these are by very respected people
you claim that i have misunderstood them.
my critique against islam is not based on hate.
it is simply saying what is seen,read or heard on a
daily basis in the european media.
i wish we could attend a q and a session with say
ayan hirsi ali- dr wafa sultan would be too much.
there is absolutely no hate for you or muslims. i think
muslims are a troubled community. you should reform
or modernise them.
that is a huge task for any one- but maybe you can
do it with the blessing of allah.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 12:45 AM
61
Gayatri/Lalit,
Your hate mail is too offensive to reply. You have reached the depth that you do every few months.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 12:38 AM
60
Varun,
>>>> "So you want Godse to be elevated to sainthood?"
>> Why don't you instead elevate your hero Jinnah to sainthood?
We were talking of assassins. But if you want to worship Godse, you of course are free to do so.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 03, 2009 12:33 AM
59
Varun Shekhar,
>> Gandhi went out of his way to help Moslems, even to the extent of causing discomfort to Hindu refugees. Appeasement and one-sided assistance ...
The conflict that was going on is a communal one, with both sides not caring about finer aspects like right/justice of innocent citizens etc. It is just about dominance, mistrust, plain communal hatred etc. Gandhi appealed to bring sanity to the situation. At some level, as a Hindu, he might have seen himself as a representative of hindus, to reach out to the Muslims. Reaching out is possibly the only sensible thing to do for anyone. Things like aggressive rhetoric etc only further worsens the behavior of both hindus and Muslims. It needs some greatness to think of reaching out. Just like there is a section that felt that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was too lenient and compromising, there are those like Godse to whom it is really beyond the spiritual/moral/philosophical comprehension to even understand what it is all about. Communalism, violence, aggression, bloodshed etc is the only philosophy they ever understand. It is a pity.
>> As to your Mullah Omar remark
Well, that’s an exaggerated remark, but the point is that there are enough of things almost at any part of the world where there is a need to fight for rights/justice etc, and one doesnt have to go Pakistan/Afganistan etc in search of issues. That silly to suggest (But Gayatri thinks he is making a great point)
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2009 12:33 AM
58
"Gandhi's portrait did adorn Obama's Senate office."
My question was did he write anything in his book. Any ways thanks for the info.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 03, 2009 12:16 AM
57
vijay aggarwal
i mentioned my sister in england who prefers to
cook ,shop herself rather then live in new delhi,
with the usual upper class life style.
same goes for me. i prefer to cook, wash up then live
in my sisters absoltely beautiful home with all manners
of comfort.
it is not to brag- just that the luxurios life style
is not so great, when i see poor people struggleing
the whole day. its the puritan in me.
i hate eating in expensive 5 stars, knowing that the
price of my meal is not much smaller then the pay of
the domestic staff.
we disagree on many points- i am not perturbed and
neither should you be.
if the britts had not come to india, we would hve been like nepal, afghanistan or pakistan.
india respected its british heritage and built on
this foundation.
pakistan decided to build an islamic fortress instead.
the differences can be seen.
i dont expect to convince you.
let us agree to disagree.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 03, 2009 12:05 AM
56
Gayatri Devi,
>> your main objective is to attack hindus.
Why don’t you quote a line from me proving your contention. You don’t even try to make a sensible argument or even try to substantiate etc. That’s the reason you never quote anyone – you just go about shooting aimlessly.
>> cowardly scum bag ..not surpriseing.a pail needs shit.
You can’t substantiate a single thing that you throw at others. You just want to pick up whatever words come to your mind and throw it on others, hoping that that it will drive away people. You are very mistaken. That you are so troubled for nothing tells a story of its own. It proves that one does not have to go to pakistan or afganistan etc. There's enough of good, bad, ugly every part of the world.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 11:54 PM
55
faruki
regarding nazism, it is exceeded any day in viciousness
and extremism by islam.
we see this in the speeches by muslim clerics, in the
education given in marassahs, in the words in the
koran, the harsh laws of blasphemy and apostasy.
it is seen in the governance of muslim countries,
and how they behave in the international community.
i will not go into details, because they are known to
all who wish to know them.
i have friends in norway, denmark, sweden ,england
and i correspond with some muslim journalists. they
eccho my views. i have written about their views
several times.
you pretend that i dont understand speeches by exmuslims in usa, england.these are easily understandable, and proof of this is that they are
hated by some members of the muslim community, some
of whom are willing to kill them.
false pretence, denials, out right lies are the weapons of cowards and losers.
i have said that liberals should support liberals
liveing in muslim countries. i certainly do.india should invite them for visits, and support them in every possible way.
however this does not mean that i will refuse to see the reality of islam,or that of any other religion.
you have chosen to defend islam and muslims regardless
of what is seen on the ground.by doing so you have let down the liberals in pakistan and amongst muslims in
india.i support all of these people who fight for
their rights .
this means little to you. you and kumar share a passion
of demoniseing the sanghi,s, none of whom have i ever
met. none can be seen or heard in new delhi, ot there
abouts. you have a grouse against bjp, even when they are relatively honest and provide good government.
for both of you hate and grouses against your enemies are far more important then the reform of your own
communities.
your attacks are solely directed against sanghis,
when the real devils who plague muslims, are bigoted
muslims themselves. there is general agreement about this in all forums.
i can understand why most muslims praise gandhi.
he did what they wanted, in the futile hope that
they would listen to him. it did not work.
i think its fair to say that those who have an obsessional hate against parivar , and want to work selectively for their own communities will be paid back in kind.
my motto is-
fairness all ways.
appeasement- never-
that is the mindset of europeans now. after july 2005
train bombings,tony blair announced- the rules of the
game have changed. pakistani,s know this.
dont play smart misuseing words like fascists or nazi,s
for people like me. if you are looking for such people,you will find many much closer in your own
community.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 11:42 PM
54
"So you want Godse to be elevated to sainthood?"
Why don't you instead elevate your hero Jinnah to sainthood? After all, you could argue, and many people do, that he delivered the heroic and hard-done-by Moslems from the evil clutches of the colonial, communal, polytheistic Hindu majority. He had to get 500,000 people killed in the process, but what matter?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 02, 2009 11:35 PM
53
Ganesan,
>> His great contribution to India would be on the issue of untouchability.
First time you have something good to say about Gandhi. Thank you.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 02, 2009 11:32 PM
52
Ganesan,
>> Or it is just another one of those things which people do each year-a ritual?
Gandhi's portrait did adorn Obama's Senate office. Since both Gandhi and Obama are your big heros (wink wink!), I can understand your wanting to know.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 02, 2009 11:19 PM
51
Ghai,
>> Gandhi has been painted a saint and Godse a devil.
So you want Godse to be elevated to sainthood? All assassins have justifications based on their hate dogmas, and some of them do build up a small following of like minded bigots.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 02, 2009 11:08 PM
50
Let's also remember that Nathuram Godse, who committed a crime and had to be punished, was once an ardent Congress supporter, in fact less than a decade before his infamous action. He and many like him must have been disgusted at how the Congress made concession after concession to the Moslem League goons, and that too without getting any assurances from them of equitable behaviour.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 02, 2009 11:07 PM
49
""Social Conservatives and other such distasteful vermin are typically considered right wing."
Saints like Stalin and Mao are considered left wing. I guess it is better to be a vermin than to be a Stalinist.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 10:58 PM
48
"Gandhi could see humans as humans and not merely by religious identity, which you cannot stand nor comprehend. That is your problem. "
If Gandhi was able to see that, he would have not seen muslims who should be constantly appeased for unity. He would have acted neutral in hindu-muslim disputes. Instead, he always found a justification for muslim violence but scolded hindus for their violence.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 10:49 PM
47
"Social Conservatives and other such distasteful vermin are typically considered right wing."
Tsk tsk, such fanatical intolerance for legitimate thinking. There are left-liberals who can see that there is a much bigger danger from Islamic terrorism and Islamist ideology, than from mercurial Hindu aggressiveness in the shape of the VHP, or Christian bible thumpers, bad as they are. For one, the Islamic threat is global, relentless, gratuitously violent and totalitarian. The same can hardly be said of the VHP's programme. Incidentally, Christopher Hitchens is one intellectual on the Left, who correctly sees the big danger from Islamism, and the necessity of combating/countering it, without in any way drawing an equivalence to any 'right wing' tendencies in Hinduism, Judaism or Animism. He's not the only one.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 02, 2009 10:37 PM
46
"Gandhi could see humans as humans and not merely by religious identity, which you cannot stand nor comprehend. That is your problem."
But that's just the problem. Gandhi went out of his way to help Moslems, even to the extent of causing discomfort to Hindu refugees. Appeasement and one-sided assistance is not sufficient for 'seeing people as human beings'. As to your Mullah Omar remark, you don't realise who or what Mullah Omar is. Do you think you can have the kind of discussions with a character like that, that you can with Indians on this message board. You could have it with the VHP and RSS, without a doubt. Not with the Taliban or Al-Qaeda or the Lashkar.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 02, 2009 10:36 PM
45
Gayatri/Lalit (to Kumar),
>> scared of the real bigots like mullah omar...
Do you want Kumar to go to Afghanistan and fight Mullah Omar? How stupid can you be?
>> attacking western liberals like me.
Your calling yourself a Western liberal is a joke. You are the exact opposite of a Western liberal or an Indian liberal. You are a right wing, sanghi, racist, communalist, neo-Nazi nut!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 02, 2009 10:30 PM
44
Godse's final speech in the court:
http://ngodse.tripod.com/defense.htm
prometheus
kolkata, India
Oct 02, 2009 10:22 PM
43
Gayatri aka banito aka lalit
Thanks for the compliment ... I am glad I am not an old rotten egg.
However, I must say it is rather unfortunate that you have not fully comprehended the gist of my post. I don't dream of "old india" and I am not blaming the British people. But, yes, I am justified in exposing their colonial, geo-strategic and economic policies that caused the exploitation and division of India. Even today, their foreign policies in collusion with USA have a lot to answer for the ethnic and political problems that world faces today ... in Palestine, South Asia, Africa, Middle East etc.
Besides, the argument that Britain modernised India is a cantakerous one. The spread of modern science and technology is not restricted or facilitated by borders or rulers for it would have come to India any way with or without the British like, the tremendous advances India has made today after the British left, even surpassed them, in IT, Nuclear Energy, Satellite comms/navigation, Ship building and Rocketry etc. Yes, they brought Railways and Telegraph, built roads and bridges, established big ports and cities to consolidate and secure their empire basically, not to help the agrarian rural economy of India. The Indian village system was robbed of its inherent traditional wealth by an unscrupulous tax regime which made the farmers landless and forced them to migrate to cities - a trend that has still not been reversed ...
I am sorry but it is the British policies preceding the independence largely that caused the mistrust between the Hindus and Muslims, for if they really wanted they could have easily prevented the bloodshed and eased a peaceful transfer of power. After all they controlled the police and the military but did nothing to prevent communal riots in Bengal and Punjab. For the fact is that they let it happen ... why did they not put Jinnah and Muslim League leaders in jail when they threatened the "Direct Action" to get Pakistan ?
Your point about English is a bit vacuous and dull too. For English was "given" to "little brown Indians" only to "civilise" and "educate" them to serve the Raj as clerks and despise their own history and culture. No, we must take the full credit ourselves for educating us with the means available under the British rule.
Then, its our own excellence and scholarship that surfaced and we produced brilliant scholars in all fields, law, science, arts and medicine etc. that enabled us to set up our own institutions of higher studies, IITs and IIMs that are now the envy of the world.
How can be this be relegated to just the British rule and English language only ... of course it was and is most easily accessible medium of modern education available to us and we have chosen it and mastered it ...
I don't mean to upset you, but there is hardly any need here to mention your opulent family in UK/USA with 2/3 cars, or that Lakshmi Mittal is your personal friend in order to make your point ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 02, 2009 10:20 PM
42
kumar
so like faruki you are fighting bigots like mullah omar in this forum.
this says everything about you.
you are a cowardly scum bag who is scared of the real
bigots like mullah omar, but play safe by attacking western liberals like me.under a pseudo name.
i dislike people like you with moral pretensions, when your main objective is to attack hindus.
you deserve to be kicked out of india. join your islamic brothers in pakistan.
i have said several times, that some members of the minorities in india have ganged up against the hindus.
it is a safe pass time.it shows basically their hatred
for their past heritage.
it surprises me that you have chosen pakistanis as
partners. not surpriseing.a pail needs shit.
if the rss is against traitors like you, then it is
understandable.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 09:27 PM
41
Gayatri Devi,
>> nathuram godse killed gandhi because he thought that he was immune to the sufferings of hindu refugees, who came to india after experienceing real horror.
Gandhi could see humans as humans and not merely by religious identity, which you cannot stand nor comprehend. That is your problem.
>> do you wonder that some people despise you in this form .. any one can see that you are a thick skinned guy
Yes, the supporters of violent religious extremists. I am not surpised the least. In fact, thats the whole point why I visit this forum.
>> go become a missionary in pakistan
There are enough of Mullah Omars here as well. Don't have to go anywhere.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 09:22 PM
40
Godse committed a very foolish act by murdering Gandhi and deserved to be hanged. Nevertheless, his statement in court is one of the best indictments against Gandhi.
"'About Kashmir, Gandhiji again and again declared that Sheikh Abdullah should be entrusted the charge of the State and that the Maharaja of Kashmir should retire to Benares for no particular reason than that the Muslims formed the bulk of the Kashmiri population. This stands out in contrast with his attitude on Hyderabad where although the bulk of the population is Hindu, Gandhiji never called upon the Nizam to retire to Mecca.
'About this very time he resorted to his fast unto death. Every condition given by him for giving up that fast is in favour of Muslims and against the Hindus. One of the seven conditions was to the effect that all the mosques in Delhi which were occupied by the refugees should be vacated… and be made over to the Muslims. Gandhiji got this condition accepted by the Government… Those were the days of bitter or extreme cold and on the day Gandhiji broke his fast, it was also raining. Families after families of refugees who had come to Delhi for shelter were driven out and while doing so no provision was made for their shelter and stay.
'The decision to withhold the payment of Rs 55 crores to Pakistan was taken by our government which claims to be the people's government. But this decision of the people's Government was reversed to suit the tune of Gandhiji's fast.
'All his fasts were to coerce Hindus. "
He was spot on about how Gandhi treated hindus and muslims. Gandhi was a classic appeaser-he thought by giving into every muslim demand, he could unite hindus and muslims. In the end, the country was partitioned.
Gandhi never took a moral stand. He was prepared to lecture hindus but never muslims. He demanded certain things from hindus but never from muslims. How will this unite two groups? One group will feel it can get more concessions while the other will feel getting screwed.
Had he acted as a Judge between hindus and muslims-instead of being a lawyer pleading muslim's case to hindus, history might have been different.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 09:21 PM
39
"His great contribution to India would be on the issue of untouchability. "
That is true sir.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2009 09:11 PM
38
kumar
nathuram godse killed gandhi because he thought that
he was immune to the sufferings of hindu refugees,
who came to india after experienceing real horror.
instead of helping them he kept on trying to please muslims, and muslims alone.
you are not bothered about the killings of christians
in pakistan.
where are your morals, your conscience.you have none.
you are one of the miserable missionary christians,
who has no love for india, or its people.
instead you keep babbling about morals, which your
opponents should follow.
do you wonder that some people despise you in this form. any one can see that you are a thick skinned guy with little intelligence, and a pain in the butt.
stop your miserable pontificateing to us.- go become a missionary in pakistan, and let us know how you get on.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 09:00 PM
37
Since I have been critical of Gandhi on multiple issues, I think I should also state where he was right and where he achieved success.
His great contribution to India would be on the issue of untouchability. Many people before him(like Narayana Guru) have fought against it but it was Gandhi who made the issue national. And given his stature, he had more impact on the issue than anyone else. For that, he deserves the gratitude of all Indians-especially hindus.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 08:41 PM
36
Have a peep in Indian History of those times !
http://search1.redif...aval%20mutiny%201946
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2009 08:37 PM
35
Baggai ji
Congress ruled for decades after Independence .It perpetuated one sided History.All the credit for Independence was given to Gandhi,Nehru and Congress.Contributions of Bose and others are hardly mentioned.Gandhi was elevated to the prime position .
True the contribution of Congress are great.But to claim that India got independence solely due to Gandhi -Nehru is great falsification of the History.
England had been very badly mauled in WW-2.Financially it had become broke.German Air Force had turned it into a Nation of rubble.England had no strenght left or will to control its Empire .Sri Lanka got freedom,Burma got freedom,Far Eastern Nations got independence,African countries became free .
There was no Gandhi with them .
The Indian Naval Mutiny 18th February 1946 had shaken the very foundations of British Empire . Britishers realised they could no more control India .Royal Air Force too simultaneously faced unrest .Nearly one Million Defence ranks were demobbed after World War Two .There was restlessness among them .India itself was emptied of its wealth .Agriculture was in doldrums .Food stocks had crashed.
India was ready to throw the yoke of slavery !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2009 08:23 PM
34
The usual homilies have been said about Gandhi. The one new feature this year was that the Messiah Obama decided to weigh in as well-calling him his real hero( I guess Saul ALinsky is a distant second).
That aside, the Messiah has written two books. The last time I checked, one book did not have any index. The second book had an index but no mention of Gandhi. Does anyone know if he has written about Gandhi in any one of his books? Or it is just another one of those things which people do each year-a ritual?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 08:08 PM
33
"Gandhi wrote to Jinnah seeking permission to settle down in Pakistan in order to work for Indo-Pakistan unity. Jinnah concurred"
Why wouldnt he? A Gandhi sitting in Pakistan sending instructions to the Indian govt would have been the perfect embarrassment to the Indian govt and Indians. Jinnah would have to be a total fool to let go this wonderful opportunity.
Yet again, it shows the naivette of Gandhi. After all his failures, all his strategies and tactics going up in flames, he did not learn one lesson from his 30+ year career in India.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 07:41 PM
32
Gayatri Devi,
>> think nathu ram godse was a true indian patriot. he proved this by dieing for his convictions.
If dying for convictions is your "proof" for being a great man, then the suicide bombers should be high on that list.
>> predictability few have the courage and moral fibre to say so in india
The problem is not with the people, but with your faulty idea of what constitutes moral fibre/courage.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 07:18 PM
31
mr ghai
thank you sir.
i was awed by gandhi in my school days .
however this awe turned to sceptipism and even a bit
of contempt as i saw his actions . he took sides
against the britts and for the islamists, even going
to the extent of supporting the ali brothers regarding the caliphate issue.
his antimodernism, quaint eccentricities , and odd
moral choices put me off.
i will not say he was a hypocrite. just lacking in
good commonsense.
his falling out with the britts could also be due to
his eccentric and illogical mindset.
in the end everyone mourned over him in india. he
was named the father of the nation- and his name
is allways mentioned when there is occasion for it.
i think nathu ram godse was a true indian patriot.
he proved this by dieing for his convictions.
predictability few have the courage and moral fibre
to say so in india.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 06:26 PM
30
kumar
scandinavian countries have reduced their aid to africa, knowing that it was being siphoned off by
corrupt leaders.
they made this choice after years of dismal experience.
thank god that people can make judgements on people
whether they are deserveing or not.fools like you are
against this.
i doubt that you will do anything for anyone. all your
writeing express your hate for sanghis.
you have no morals when it comes to pakistani,s
killing christians. in this case you distance yourself
and take a swipe at the sanghis.
buddy you are pure dumb. you would not know truth if it hit you as a truck.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 05:36 PM
29
I think Patel and Nehru knew about the Hindu refugees' anger against Gandhi and were lax in security. Maybe they preferred a dead Gandhi than a living Gandhi who has become senile by that time.
I can agree with Nehru and Patel, partition is the best thing to have happened to India in recent history.
Selvan
Boston, United States
Oct 02, 2009 05:28 PM
28
Nathuram Godse in his defence had said that he was not against Muslims .He was against Partition and represented forces which wanted reunification .Gandhi was forcing Nehru to adopt measures during war which were pro Pakistan and were harmfull to Inida .Hence Gose decided to kill Gandhi as per Godse.
That was 62 yrs back .In these years Gose's version and his Defence submissions in the Gandhi murder case are not being allowed to be published.We only know one sided version .Where Gandhi has been painted a saint and Godse a devil .
To honestly understand the reasons behind Godse's actions Govt should should release Godse's version too?
Inidans are mature enough to judge themselves
(corrected, Sorry )
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2009 05:21 PM
27
Muslims .He was against Partition and repesented forces which wanted reunification .Gandhi was forcing Nehru to adopt measures during war which were pro Pakistan and were harmfull to Inida .Hence Gose decided to kill GanNathuram Godse in his defence had said that he was not against dhi.
That was 62 yrs back .In these years Gose's version and his Defence submissions in the Gandhi murder case are not being allowed to be published.We only know one sided version .Where Gandhi has been painted a saint and Godse a devil .
To honestly understand the reasons behind Godse's actions Govt should should release Godse's version too?
Inidans are mature enough to judge themselves .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2009 05:02 PM
26
Gandhi was a worldly wise leader. Wasn’t he aware that Prophet Mohammad engineered his Islam to rest on a tripod of treachery, butchery and debauchery? Or should we assume naively that Gandhi did not read history of Muslim treachery and butchery? The prophet of doom had told his followers to spread Islam using the tripod and the best way was to butcher kafirs and satisfy blood thirsty Allah.
Many of us are not aware that we owe our Hindu existence to the sacrifices made by the Sikh gurus and the Sikhs. Had not Sikhs (and Marathas) fought the evil Islam many of us today would have been reading namaaz in a asthma-filled cavernous mosque. India would have been filled with 80 per cent Muslims.
Early in 1675, a group of Kashmiri brahmins visited Anandpur to seek Guru Tegh Bahadur's(father of last guru Guru Gobind Singh) advice. Aurangzeb had ordered the forced conversion of all Hindus and thought that if the respected Kashmiri brahmins accepted Islam, others in the country would be easily converted. They had been given six months to decide or suffer the consequences. Time was running out! Tegh Bahadur advised the brahmins to return to their village and tell the authorities that they would accept Islam if “Guru Tegh Bahadur could first be persuaded to do so.” The guru was called to Delhi and put to death by the rapacious Islamic monster Aurangzeb who has been glorified in NCERT textbooks by Indira Gandhi’s goons. Shortly afterwards Tegh Bahadur’s son Gobind Rai became the 10th and last guru. There was no respite from Islamic monsters. The Moghals captured Guru Gobind's mother and his youngest two sons, aged 9 and 7, and bricked them alive. After the two kids died of suffocation the Islamic monsters beheaded the children and delivered their heads to their grandmother who died of shock at the sight.
I wonder when Islamic monsters do namaaz what exactly they pray for. There is actually nothing in Koran to pray for except Prophet’s instigation to kill the kafirs. There is hardly a spiritual advice in the evil book. Islam is called religion which has given a new twist to the word "religion." Koran has brought nothing but death, destruction and disease to mankind. Yet this strange religion’s blood thirst has not yet been satiated despite ocean of blood having flowed on this unfortunate earth. I am sure Gandhi knew Islam's unquenched thirst for blood and gore as one would know the properties of fire. The barbarism has been continuous down the ages and yet Gandhi ignored it. I hope Islam soon goes the way the communist went in Mother Russia. But the scars inflicted by the gory and utterly evil Prophet Mohammad on this earth will remain for ages to come.
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 02, 2009 04:52 PM
25
Rajinder Puri is very kind in his assessment about Gandhi - a kindness brought about no doubt, by his absolute lack of desire to taint, what is, by way of populist perspective, the holiest of holy cows!
Shiv Adiseshan
Chennai, India
Oct 02, 2009 04:28 PM
24
kumar
what explanation do you have for the mantle of saint
hood that you flaunt- something like karzais.
i have spent a lot of time and money in doing what is possible for the underprivileged in india. i have worked for save the children organisation, and am now
doing work as an ngo in climate change.
i resent your hectoreing moral tone, when i know exactly what i am doing,and suspect that you are doing damn all.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 04:15 PM
23
vijay aggarwal
old indians ,especially from the north keeps dreaming
of old india,despite many rude shocks from pakistani,s
they keep on blameing britain, depite the fact that
this country has modernised india, and even given you
a language which provides you with professional
opportunities, and to express yourself.
no one expected the massacres which followed partition.
in no way was britain responsible for the partition.
putting the blame for the civilisational devide on the
britts is a denial of reality.
britain is not responsible for all the miseries of
india or pakistan. in fact what has britain gained from
its erstwhile colonies.
the country is flooded by pakistani,s who are an economic burden, and a paralell society which has devided the nation.
indians are doing well, or at least some of them are.
lakshmi mittal is the richesti in all england.
i know that my sister despite owning a house in south
delhi, with 2 cars, chauffer, 2 in house maids, much prefers her modest life style in reading as a retired gp.
all my relations in usa are happy and content. were it
not for their aged parents,they would seldom visit the
old country. for that matter neither would i, though
i stay in new delhi with my opulent sister on my
yearly visits.
indians are amazeingly fond of the pakistani,s and
think badly of western countries, where they are very
comfortably off.
this is not meant to annoy you vijay. i think you are
a decent old egg-to use p.g.woodhouse language.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 04:06 PM
22
Gayatri Devi,
>> people are entitled to express their opinions on any subject, without the proviso that they must first take affirmative action before doing so.
I did not say that you are not entitled to your express their opinions. Nor did I say that one must first take affirmative action before doing so. I only remarked about the whole approach/attitude towards the issue of some people/group's current social-educational-economic standards being less. What desire does that provoke in you? That’s the question. And I am not surprised that your family members are appalled.
>> you have been told off by manypeople ...
They are supporters of violent extremists etc, that’s why they are uncomfortable, and that is exactly the point.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 03:54 PM
21
kumar
people are entitled to express their opinions on any subject, without the proviso that they must first
take affirmative action before doing so.
india ,and especially me have little opportunity of
helping africans.
sarkosy the french president remarked about africa-
in essence,he said that africans did not have the
desire or wish to join the mainstream.
as a consequence france would discontinue its close
relationship with africa. now write and come up with
a rebuke to him.
stop thinking like a village pastor-
by the way what exactly do you do to serve suffering
humanity, besides your endless pontifaceteing.
you have been told off by manypeople about this.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 03:41 PM
20
Gayatri Devi,
>> starting the debate i made a remark about negroes, and said it is possible that in view of their performance they could be less intellectually endowed then the whites and asians.
>> this ended the peace and bon homie that had prevailed til then.
Being "less intellectually endowed" might be a current 'apparent' condition of a proportionately larger percentage among some sections/races/castes etc for various reasons. But I think the larger question is this: When you see a people whose social-economic-educational standards seem less, what does it provoke you? Does it provoke you to merely make a callous remark that the race is not intellectually endowed? Or does it provoke a desire to reach out and educate and empower them etc. I think your family members are appalled not so much by the observation that many black african nations are not doing very well (which everyone knows anyway, you don’t have to educate them on that), but the whole approach you are taking and where you are getting at, in reaction to the issue.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 03:04 PM
19
sandy
we think alike- it is good to know this.
years ago i was holidaying with my family in portugal.
one afternoon we debated the subject of race,sure to
inflame all indians.
participants- my sister and brotherinlaw-both prosperous doctors in britain.
another sister and brotherin law . he a retired ias
guy working as consultant for the world bank. my sister -person i admire immensely- is an artist, social worker , astrologer, excellent house wife,mother,sister, aunt and so forth.
starting the debate i made a remark about negroes, and said it is possible that in view of their performance they could be less intellectually endowed then the whites and asians.
this ended the peace and bon homie that had prevailed
til then. i underlined that i was not saying that negroes were inferior but that this could be debated.
i realised at once that no one would have objected if
i had said that we asians, and especially indians were
more intelligent then the whites.
i believe that for what ever reason the white nations are generally doing much better then the others,save
for a few asian exceptions.
there is no white nation which is down and out as one finds in africa, latin america or asia.
there are no whites liveing in huts with children not
getting a chance to go to school. the poorest european countries are doing notably better then india.
the only non white nations doing well are the arabs,
who are blessed with giant oil incomes.however remarkably even the poor arab countries are better off
then the poor african countries like sudan, ethiopia,
congo and so forth.
conclusion- indians are beset with strange complexes which prevents them from thinking rationally.
the few who were rational and canny were leaders
like rajajee-founder of swatantara party- patel,
j.r.d.tata and one or two more.
nehru was rational but had a great weakness for
socialist dogma. he did a lot of good,but also quite
a bit of harm.never bothered about the population
explosion.
india badly needs clear headed thinkers- if there are
any then i can not see or hear them.
the communist leaders are from another age. the congress is devoid of leadership,though there are several young ones,but then who are scared to say anything new.tharoor said something meant to be funny,and was given a talking to as a naughty school boy by marm.
the bjp is antimodernist.
the less said of mayawati, mulayam singh and lalloo the
better.
if india is in such dire straits,then imagine the state
of african countries. zimbabwe is ruled by mugabe.
south africa by zuma. there was the emperor bokassa who
was accused of cannibalism.libya is ruled by gaddafi.
i can understand why people buy skin whiteners-
now this is meant as a joke. i dont want the usual suspects to get a fit, and start attacking me.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 02:30 PM
18
In my opinion there is not much to be gained from hypothesizing and splitting hair over whether Partition of India was an historical certainty and could not possibly have been avoided without a great deal of bloodshed. For the bloodshed did happen and we are now a divided people in the sub-continent not only by geographical borders but also by civilisational ethos and intellect.
For British historians it must really be a poignant exercise in order to exonerate their country totally from the holocaust that followed while leaving India after feting it for over 300 years in just six "Mountbatten" months ...
For they must now be witnessing like penitent monkeys with more than just a pinch of salt that their "strategic" creation straddled between oil rich Middle East, Central Asia and India, has become the hot-bed of Islamic fundamentalism and a terrorist incubator that has turned on themselves, instead of being an instrument of serving their interests in the region.
It indeed must be history's biggest joke and West's biggest strategic loss that this brutal creation in the name of Islam is now being used by China to weaken India ... who now clearly see themselves as new Britons in Asia and Indian Ocean ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 02, 2009 02:26 PM
17
In my opinion there is not much to be gained from hypothesizing and splitting hair over whether Partition of India was an historical certainty and could not possibly have been avoided without a great deal of bloodshed. For the bloodshed did happen and we are now a divided people in the sub-continent not only by geographical borders but also by civilisational ethos and intellect.
For British historians it must really be a poignant exercise in order to exonerate their country totally from the holocaust that followed while leaving India after feting it for over 300 years in just six "Mountbatten" months ... for they must now be witnessing like penitent monkeys with more than just a pinch of salt that their "strategic" creation straddled between oil rich Middle East, Central Asia and India, has become the hot-bed of Islamic fundamentalism and a terrorist incubator that has turned on themselves, instead of being an instrument of serving their interests in the region. It indeed must be history's biggest joke and West's biggest strategic loss that this brutal creation in the name of Islam is now being used by China to weaken India ... who now clearly see themselves as new Britons in Asia and Indian Ocean ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Oct 02, 2009 02:19 PM
16
reddy
islam works on the fuhrer principle, as in fascism.
both have one leader-
in islam it is mohammed, and he has even more claims
on his followers then either mussolini or hitler even
dreamt of.
mohammed asked of his followes-
you must love me more then your own parents
anyone who blasphems should be killed
anyone who is an apostate should be killed.
my word is law,with the sanctity of god.
even mussolini and hitler did not make such claims.
has any leader of rss make such claims-
islamists and left wing people use words like fascist, nazi as insults, ignoreing the facts that their own
idealogies are closer to giveing all power to their
own leaders.
communists use such insults against the democratic
free capitalist countries. despite the fact that mao
and stalin had absolute power, not equalled by any one
in the west.
for example winston churchill was booted out by the
british people after victory against hitler in 1946.
nixon was close to impeachment after water gate.
who are the nazis or the fascists.they are dead and gone.
islam and communism remain. in neither place will you
find liberty or freedom of speech. in afghanistan
women were beaten should they dared to laugh. a
muslim who converted to christianity was sentenced to death by the supreme court, and had to be hurriedly
evacuated by the italian govt.
you are one of the unread mindless zombies who does not
know the difference between chalk and cheese, beset
with a huge inferiority complex.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 02:03 PM
15
I would like India and Pakistan to be one nation. There is nothing that separates an Indian from a Pakistani, because I do not believe that religion should be a divisive factor, among those who believe in God. I admire some Muslims, like Maulana Azad very ardently. Hindu's and Muslim's should have the freedom to be helpful to each other, and should prosper equally. I am sure Gandhiji would have also wanted this for India. India is home for a variety of religious identities, like Jew's and very old Christian congregation's, such as in Kerala. It would be a matter of pride, if all of India would advance and prosper, and Pakistan would be a part of our prosperity.
Aditya Mookerjee
Belgaum, India
Oct 02, 2009 12:37 PM
14
Partition of India would have happened later if not in 1947, Gandhi or no Gandhi or any other great or not so great leader!Who can stop the flow of History? And Partitition may happen again, may be in 50 years and a re-unification in another 100 years.Who can stop the flow of History?
K.C.Sharma
Delhi, India
Oct 02, 2009 11:41 AM
13
>> Anybody can google a friggin definition
Except, it seems, the bina chaddhi wallah crowd.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 02, 2009 11:35 AM
12
"You are confusing between definition and example."
Here are some more examples and a definition will eventually happen on its own.
Nazis, Fascists, Conservative Capitalists, Conservatives, Xenophobes, Religious Conservatives, Social Conservatives and other such distasteful vermin are typically considered right wing. The Parivar and its chaddies are considered ultra-rightwing. Anybody can google a friggin definition, but examples are more fun.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 11:28 AM
11
"It is difficult to blame only Muslim thugs when these two top leaders were India's Number 1 enemies. "
This has got to be one of the more bizarre revelations in all of these forums ! I suppose by this logic chaddies are considered true heroes who saved the Nation. Even chaddies will have a hard time believing that but hey, throw it out there and see if it sticks !!
Reddy
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 11:04 AM
10
>>>> What is the definition of being a right winger?
>> You!
You are confusing between definition and example.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 02, 2009 10:37 AM
9
Gandhi’s judgment may be questioned. His integrity was unimpeachable? says Puri. If so in what way? Gandhi cut the Indian baby into two to satisfy the quarrelling Muslim mother. If Gandhi was sincere his actions should have spoken otherwise. He had a queer form of integrity which led to Islamic evil grow in strength and overpower us. Was Gandhi not a lawyer trained to detect lies and half-truths? THen why did he fall hook, line and sinker to Muslim thugs who were bent raping this nation? To put it euphemistically Gandhi was a successful charlatan and with his womaniser comrade-in-arms made India bereft of peace and tranquillity. It is difficult to blame only Muslim thugs when these two top leaders were India's Number 1 enemies. The evil they sowed now has borne nuclear fruits on Pakistani tree. What is worse Gandhi's legacy of ahimsa is still haunting us as it continues to perpetuate the dark ages of 1947 by its mindless political practitioners.
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 02, 2009 10:35 AM
8
Gandhi’s judgment may be questioned. His integrity was unimpeachable? says Puri. If so in what way? Gandhi cut the Indian baby into two to satisfy the quarrelling Muslim mother? If Gandhi was sincere his actions should have spoken otherwise. He had a queer form of integrity which led to Islamic evil grow in strength. Was Gandhi not a lawyer trained to detect lies and half-truths? THen why did he fall hook, line and sinker to Muslim thugs who were bent upon raping this nation? To put it euphemistically Gandhi was a successful charlatan who with his womaniser comrade-in-arms made India bereft of peace and tranquillity. It is difficult to blame only Muslim thugs when these two top leaders were India's Number 1 enemies. The evil they sowed now has borne nuclear fruits in Pakistani tree. What is worse Gandhi's legacy of ahimsa is still haunting us as it continues to perpetuate the dark ages of 1947 by its mindless political practitioners.
siddharth
Chennai, India
Oct 02, 2009 10:22 AM
7
The partition happened over Gandhi's dead body. He was killed by the power seekers. He was alive physically, but he knew he had lost out, in spirit.
Dinesh Kumar
Chandigarh, India
Oct 02, 2009 05:20 AM
6
Ganesan,
>> What is the definition of being a right winger?
You!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Oct 02, 2009 05:12 AM
5
--"He promised a lot during the "fingerprinting" campaign and delivered zilch."
Instead he delivered an Independent India, but in the fuzzy fog that clouds a right-wingers head, such earthshaking historical facts dont compute.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2009 03:26 AM
4
DC
"Nathuram Godse may be portrayed as a right wing lunatic, but in the context of the communal tension and turbulent times following the Partition..."
How exactly is Godse a right winger? What is the definition of being a right winger?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 02:05 AM
3
Gandhi was a complex personality. But he was also a politician. And politicians seek and enjoy power. Gandhi, until made irrelevant by events since mid 1940s, was always the king maker in the Congress. Remember how his political drama involving his favored candidate Sitarammaiah finally put pressure on the victorious candidate Netaji Subhash Bose to quit Congress?
Partition of India was a failure in the decades long political career of Gandhi.
For Rajindar Puri it is important to remember that all famous politicians are great speakers and they often offer tall promises. So he should not try to interprete why Gandhi's words did not match with his action? Many Bengalees especially erstwhile refugees from East Bengal are staunch critics of Gandhi, because they relied on his words that the partition would never happen.
Nathuram Godse may be portrayed as a right wing lunatic, but in the context of the communal tension and turbulent times following the Partition, Gandhi as a champion of Indo-Pak unity post-partition may have attrated all the frustrations of the assassin caused by the Partition.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Oct 02, 2009 01:34 AM
2
"Peareylal, recorded that Gandhi would angrily lash out at his critics and say should he kill himself just to satisfy others? "
No. It simply means that a politician, especially like Gandhi who's stature towered over everyone else should not make statements he cannot back up with action.
But then, that was the problem Gandhi had right from his days in South Africa. He promised a lot during the "fingerprinting" campaign and delivered zilch. The campaign was a complete disaster. Ram Sandara Pandit, the man Gandhi hailed as a hero, ran away from the place.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2009 12:32 AM
1
The insinuation seems to be that the Home Ministry had a hand in the assassination of Gandhi in order to prevent him from settling in Lahore to promote Indo-Pak unity. I think that is far-fetched. But Mr.Puri may be right in hoping that some day Gandhi's message of unity may have a resurgence in the subcontinent. But not in the foreseeable future.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment