‘Weapons, money drying up’
* Intelligence official calls public, political support for Pakistan Army a ‘critical change’
LAHORE: Among Taliban groups along the border in Afghanistan, weapons are drying up, money is drying up, said Col John Spiszer of the army unit responsible for patrolling north-eastern Afghanistan along the Pakistani border.
Pakistan’s military offensive against the Taliban has slowed the flow of arms and fighters into Afghanistan, US officials have said.
According to a Los Angeles Times report, this has prompted intelligence analysts to issue new assessments of Islamabad’s ability to contain violent extremists.
Intelligence and military officials told the newspaper the revised outlook reflected a series of developments over the last few months.
“All of a sudden military operations are being imbued with a kind of legitimacy, popular support and political support they have never had before,” said a senior US intelligence official.
Major shift: The official described it as a “critical change” in a nation where the government has for years been reluctant to take on the Taliban for fear of being accused of turning the Pakistani military against its own people.
US military officials said the operations in Swat and South Waziristan were already having a measurable effect on the amount of equipment and violence spilling into Afghanistan.
“There’s a definite impact, and I think it almost can't be overstated," Spiszer said, adding Taliban elements appeared to have concluded that they could no longer afford to send as many fighters or weapons into Afghanistan.
Last year was the deadliest for the US-NATO coalition in Afghanistan, with 294 troops killed. This year, 153 more have died with 35 have been killed in June so far – the highest monthly toll of 2009.
A senior Pakistani official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the military had begun “commando-type, special forces operations” aimed at Baitullah Mehsud and was seeking to strengthen his rivals. daily times monitor
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Sunday, June 28, 2009
Monday, June 22, 2009
French President Sarkozy speaks out against burka
BBC NEWS
French President Nicolas Sarkozy walks between republican guards in Versailles, near Paris
Mr Sarkozy was speaking at a special session of parliament in Versailles
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has spoken out strongly against the wearing of the burka by Muslim women in France.
In a major policy speech, he said the burka - a garment covering women from head to toe - reduced them to servitude and undermined their dignity.
Mr Sarkozy also gave his backing to the establishment of a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas in public.
Wearing of the veil is already outlawed in France's state schools.
"We cannot accept to have in our country women who are prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life, deprived of identity," Mr Sarkozy told a special session of parliament in Versailles.
"That is not the idea that the French republic has of women's dignity.
Find out about different styles of Muslim headscarf
In graphics
"The burka is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience. It will not be welcome on the territory of the French republic," the French president said.
But he stressed that France "must not fight the wrong battle", saying that "the Muslim religion must be respected as much as other religions" in the country.
A group of a cross-party lawmakers is already calling for a special inquiry into whether Muslim women who wear the burka are undermining French secularism, the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby in Paris says.
The lawmakers also want to examine whether women who wear the veil are doing so voluntarily or are being forced to cover themselves, our correspondent says.
Mr Sarkozy's speech, made possible by a constitutional amendment he introduced last year, was the first that a French president has made to parliament since the 19th century.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy walks between republican guards in Versailles, near Paris
Mr Sarkozy was speaking at a special session of parliament in Versailles
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has spoken out strongly against the wearing of the burka by Muslim women in France.
In a major policy speech, he said the burka - a garment covering women from head to toe - reduced them to servitude and undermined their dignity.
Mr Sarkozy also gave his backing to the establishment of a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas in public.
Wearing of the veil is already outlawed in France's state schools.
"We cannot accept to have in our country women who are prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life, deprived of identity," Mr Sarkozy told a special session of parliament in Versailles.
"That is not the idea that the French republic has of women's dignity.
Find out about different styles of Muslim headscarf
In graphics
"The burka is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience. It will not be welcome on the territory of the French republic," the French president said.
But he stressed that France "must not fight the wrong battle", saying that "the Muslim religion must be respected as much as other religions" in the country.
A group of a cross-party lawmakers is already calling for a special inquiry into whether Muslim women who wear the burka are undermining French secularism, the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby in Paris says.
The lawmakers also want to examine whether women who wear the veil are doing so voluntarily or are being forced to cover themselves, our correspondent says.
Mr Sarkozy's speech, made possible by a constitutional amendment he introduced last year, was the first that a French president has made to parliament since the 19th century.
Friday, June 19, 2009
‘The RSS Can Walk Straight Without The Crutches Of The BJP’
RSS ideologue KN Govindacharya takes the BJP to task in a hard-hitting interview with HARINDER BAWEJA
I want to start with the concept of Hindutva. What is the meaning of Hindutva? Even senior leaders like Jaswant Singh are asking this question and you were a general secretary with the BJP when this word was coined.
There are five constituents of Hindutva. First, respect to all modes of worship. Second, there is one and the same consciousness in all animate and inanimate beings. There is nothing like inferior or superior. Therefore egalitarianism is Hindutva. Third, man is not a conqueror of nature but a part of nature. Therefore, an eco-friendly economy is what Hindutva proposes. Fourth, because of the special quality of motherhood, women have a special respect in the public welfare society. The purpose of life does not end in eating, making merry and dying, but transcends that. And finally, there is the nonmaterial value of pursuing a goal, even if it may be endless. A faint realisation or feel — that is what Hindutva is. That is what the RSS also believes in.
So how does the RSS expect the BJP to translate this politically?
The BJP must have an understanding of what Hindutva means in terms of governance, economic policies, relating itself to the whole spiral of individuals, society, cosmos and reality. They must understand the statecraft pertaining to these aspects. That is what is expected of the BJP as the political component of the same ideological family.
And you feel that the BJP has failed to translate the concept of Hindutva?
I won’t be uncharitable to them because they neither had any conviction nor did they want to understand Hindutva. Therefore they cannot be blamed for functioning contrary to their beliefs. In a way, they were the tools of pseudo-Hindutva. For example, the content and tenor of Varun Gandhi’s election speech could be endearing to some people, but it wasn’t Hindutva. It is pseudo-Hindutva of the reactionary, irresponsible kind. In response to MG Vaidya’s article, if BJP president Rajnath Singh says that he is a strict adherent of Hindutva and so is his party, he is also being opportunistic; without having the onus to prove that they are following Hindutva.
Are you saying that the current leadership of the BJP, including President Rajnath Singh, is practising pseudo-Hindutva?
Yes, because they neither have the conviction nor the commitment. They think politics is everything - from the beginning till the end. Their thought process revolves only around power. They are more of achievers than performers.
They have not succeeded in achieving either. The BJP is down to 116 seats in the 2009 Lok Sabha election.
They still have some six to seven state governments and for the post of prime minister, they had a challenger in Advani. They had enough to win with and therefore I wouldn’t attribute much value even if they had come to power. How they function and what they can deliver is more important. For example, if ecofriendly techno economic order is Hindutva as I see it, then the attitude and response of the Uttarakhand government should’ve been different to the ecodestructive hydel projects that don’t subscribe to the norms. Such an unscrupulous handling of such a pious issue like Gangaji speaks of how hollow the claim of having worked with Hindutva is. There could have been 100 ways of generating electricity to fulfil the needs of Uttarakhand and saving the surplus too without destroying the fragile eco-balance of Uttarakhand. Similarly, there were five more alternatives for Sethu Samudram Pariyojna, for which even the environmental assessment could not be carried out. They catered to the ideology of Hindutva neither as a party in power nor as a party in opposition. They could not endear to vast mass of supporters they had gathered 20-25 years back. They ran out of that capital.
How is the RSS leadership viewing the election results?
As a responsible swayamsevak, this is how I read the mind of the RSS leadership — the RSS will have a straight talk with the BJP now, and tell it to decide what kind of relationship it wants to have with the RSS. Whatever the paradigm of the relationship was till now, it needs to be discussed further. If needed, the mechanism has to be thrashed out. The RSS will tell them: if you want to go without us, don’t worry; you are welcome to take your own course. We don’t even attribute good or bad values to it. If you are taking yourself with us then we will proceed on our own path. We feel that we don’t need any appendage or extra baggage. Nor any crutches. The RSS can walk straight without the crutches of the BJP. This is the message the Sangh leadership has given to the BJP. One more thing, if at all the BJP thinks of having a relationship with the RSS, then the RSS has made it clear that it should function in terms of ideology. The Sangh will then definitely want to have a say, command and intervention. That’s what they have conveyed to the BJP.
To Advani or Rajnath Singh?
To both.
You said the RSS does not need the crutches of the BJP. But isn’t the opposite true – the BJP needs the Sangh?
I don’t know. There is a big section in the BJP – and the number has gone up in the last 15 years — that thinks that the RSS is an appendage and that if they get rid of the RSS, they will be able to fly much higher. I will just compare this with an anecdote of a soaring kite, which is connected to a thread. The kite may think that it can fly on its own, and if it thinks it better to delink the thread and soar higher, it’s okay.
Which is the section in the BJP that thinks it can do without the RSS?
I had a glance over the list of the MPs elected this time. Of them, 30 odd MPs have some link, weak or strong, with the RSS or with its ideology of integral humanism; the ideology propounded by Deendayal Upadhyay. That’s the basic ideology of the BJP, even today. But there are about 85 MPs who may not have even heard of Deendayal’s ideology. And among them there may be many who may think that the RSS is not needed. If this is the problem with the composition of this parliamentary party, then the executive committee will have the same problem. The BJP therefore is a party full of opportunists and careerists and if I were to be charitable, then I can say that it is a party full of liberal democrats. They are taking politics only as a career, or a dhanda.
image
What about the better-known leaders of the BJP like Advani, Jaswant Singh, Arun Jaitley, Sushma Swaraj and Yashwant Sinha. Does the RSS consider them as careerists and opportunists?
There is not just one group. There are subgroups. There is a phenomenon of ego conflicts and personality clashes. Such factors are there in the BJP and this has created many complications. Suppose the person speaks in favour of Hindutva, it does not mean that the person is actually in favour of Hindutva. For him, it may be suitable at the moment. Among other parties also I have seen many people who privately say that they are strong Hindus but don’t say it openly. I have found these double standards in some BJP leaders also. For example, if one says Ram Janmabhoomi is a cheque which can be encashed only once, what does it mean? Similarly, there are innumerable examples, anomalies, conflicts, duplicities. So what I feel is that 20 to 25 MPs can talk on ideology. Whether they can function as a lobby needs to be seen.
As far as the RSS is concerned, you said it is okay if the BJP goes a separate way, but if they don’t, what would the RSS expect of the BJP?
Perhaps some people of the RSS and the BJP must be sitting together to chalk out a roadmap on how to bring the BJP back on the roads of ideology and idealism. It may also happen that the RSS may think in terms of promoting new names from the lower rung of the party cadre and also freshly induct from other organisations.
Was the RSS totally behind projecting Advani as the BJP’s PM candidate?
It was.
Did he make a mistake by running a presidential style campaign?
I didn’t keep the track of the election. I saw it from a distance. I think the basic premise of the election campaign itself was on a wrong footing. It said, ‘mazboot neta, nirnayak sarkaar’. People’s issues could have been projected better instead of entering into an arena of competition.
‘BJP leaders are tools for pseudo-Hindutva. They are opportunists who use Hindutva as a vote plank. For them, politics is a career, a dhandha’
Do you refer to Advani harping on Manmohan Singh being a weak PM?
That is one issue. Similarly, in the realm of mazboot neta or strong candidate, the issue of Kandahar kept coming up. It was really a competition between two weak prime ministerial candidates. On the one side, there was Manmohan Singh and on the other side there was Advaniji. Both of them were weak. As home minister, Advani’s comparison can only be made with Shivraj Patil. There was nothing much to choose from.
Do you think the BJP runs the risk of losing its space as a national party?
In the present scenario, BJP exists as a competing political force more at the state level than at the Centre.
So it is no longer a national force?
It is not a national party in terms of ideology, policies, and conviction. I feel the Congress and BJP are both pro-US and pro-rich. This does not go in favour of Bharat. Take disinvestments — when the UPA mentioned it, Arun Jaitley said that was also their position, so both BJP and Congress become pro-disinvestments.
One of the things that created quite a stir is what Sudheendra Kulkarni wrote for TEHELKA. He said that the RSS and the BJP made a strong man like Advani look weak and helpless.
He shouldn’t have made the RSS a scapegoat. In no way was the RSS involved in any kind of election strategies. Only BJP people occupied the war room and they should be held responsible for all this.
Jaitley was a member of the war room. Is it okay that he is now the leader of the opposition in the Rajya Sabha?
See, Rajnath Singh has come out with a dictum – that the BJP take collective responsibility. That does not allow for individual accountability. That, in fact, gives an escape route to everybody, including the BJP president. In Rajnath’s own home state, Uttar Pradesh, there was a pathetic performance. But now I see that he is enacting the same strategies and taking the very steps he took in Uttar Pradesh as its state president (when Kalyan Singh was the chief minister). Those strategies did great damage to the party at that time.
Has the RSS asked for accountability?
No, the RSS does not involve itself unless asked to. The BJP comes for advice. The RSS says if you are fine with it, do it. Face the music.
But then the RSS can’t be happy with Rajnath Singh as the president.
No, the RSS will not analyse in political terms as I am analysing now. I analyse because I have been in the BJP.
But Mr Vaidya’s article enters the political realm.
He only says very sarcastically that if you want to get rid of the RSS, you are welcome. Go ahead, if you dare. And face the music afterwards.
‘Many in the BJP think the RSS is not needed. The BJP has 85 MPs who may not have even heard of Deendayal Upadhyay and integral humanism’
I am quoting from Kulkarni’s article that a lot of the BJP’s allies went away because of Gujarat. Do you agree?
I don’t agree with it. Because the allies have come closer to the BJP for two reasons. One, when they don’t have to protect a Muslim base because there is no Muslim vote base in their state, be it Orissa, Punjab, Haryana or even Tamil Nadu. Two, when they think that the BJP’s vote share is more than the Muslim vote in their state, they just measure it in terms of loss and profit and then they ally, like in Bihar. Therefore the BJP is easy to ditch, like the Telugu Desam Party did. They are all opportunist political groups. Ajit Singh and the TRS had no qualms going against the BJP or coming towards it as the occasion demanded. They are just opportunist groups that take advantage when required for political gains.
The BJP is introspecting the whole business of Hindutva. Do you feel that maybe Hindutva is out of tune with today’s India?
Their perception may be out of date or irrelevant. But Hindutva is a steering wheel for the post-industrial society in the world. Hindutva is tomorrow’s ideology, not just yesterday’s. So the introspection is because of the lack of knowledge, and conviction about Hindutva. So if anybody says that they don’t know anything about Hindutva, I don’t know what they mean.
image
Jaswant Singh said on record that he does not know.
He should have specified as to what he thinks of it. I know personally that he also thinks about Hindutva on the same lines as Govindacharya. If he were given the opportunity to complete his thoughts he would have done it. I am confident about it. Because he is a practicing Hindu.
Does the BJP appear like a party of yesterday because of Hindutva?
It’s because of its opportunist approaches – of treating Hindutva as a vote plank rather than a comprehensive vision and ideology, complete in itself.
Why is the BJP such a divided house?
Because it could not evolve the scientific form of functioning required. The Congress could evolve in a manner that is power-centric. And the Left could also evolve in a style whose history goes back to 1848. When the BJP started out as the Jan Sangh, function methodology was a feeble thought. They thought more about ideology than the style of functioning. I feel personally that the BJP’s main problem is that it lacks a style of functioning. That is why today it appears to be so divided.
Is that why you say there are too many ego problems?
Naturally. If ideology and idealism take a back seat and the style of functioning doesn’t enforce those components, then naturally politics becomes just a power game. You cannot avoid ego-politics and ambition clashes. There has to be something more moral and superior as the chief parameter. When that goes missing, only vote gaining and fund raising capacities matter. Gradually, the degeneration starts. Sycophancy and conspiracy take front seats. Dedication, sacrifice, hard work – they will not matter.
‘The election was a competition between a weak Manmohan Singh and a weak Advaniji. The slogan“mazboot neta, nirnayak sarkar” was wrong’
Was it a mistake to project Narendra Modi’s name as the PM?
It was certainly by default. Not by design. Arun Shourie held a press conference in Ahmedabad and said that Modi has all the capabilities of becoming a PM, which was thoroughly unwarranted. But the war room should have taken immediate initiative to instruct all the responsible office bearers of the party to not engage or respond to this question. But they just sat. So this issue was raised by the opponents and also by the media.
Is there a feeling within the RSS that perhaps it’s time for Advani to retire?
The RSS, unless asked to think and advise on these aspects, will not apply its mind on such issues.
That’s not true because some years ago, Sudarshanji said on camera that there should be a retiring age.
As a person, he may have said that, but it was never discussed in any forum of the RSS. It was not a collective feeling.
Is there such a thought now?
Advaniji has definitely expressed the will for a retired life. He desires it and deserves it also. He doesn’t deserve this kind of lampooning and cartooning from either the media or from within the sections of the BJP. He deserves a happy and serene life.
So why defer it till December?
I don’t think there is any such decision. I don’t think there will be any change except that the working time of Rajnath Singh is ending in December. Advani has never said anywhere that he is going to quit in December. This is rumour, conjecture.
Who will make a good president of the BJP after Rajnath retires?
I don’t want to spoil the chances of that person by naming him. He will be unnecessarily targeted.
‘Advani wishes a retired life; he desires it and deserves it also. He doesn’t deserve to be lampooned by either the media or the party’
So are you a ruling out a ‘she’?
(Laughs.)
What do you think of Yashwant Sinha’s letter?
Yashwant Sinha had all the time at his disposal in the last 10 years. He should have deliberated upon these matters with all the responsible people concerned.
Somebody like AB Vajpayee, who was considered to be more moderate, was able to lead the party to power at the Centre. There’s something that needs to be said about the moderate face. Does the RSS also need to introspect?
At that time Atalji was the supreme leader. He never adhered to Hindutva.
That’s my point. If the BJP, without adhering to Hindutva, could be in government for six years...
But they could not win on the basis of disconnecting themselves from Hindutva. Because of Hindutva they rose from 2 to 182 seats in the 1980s and when they left it, they came to 137, and now 116. Let them experiment. They are more than welcome. But don’t blame Hindutva.
There is something called a youth vote now and in contrast, the BJP came across as a communal party. That’s why I am asking, should the RSS too not introspect?
Don’t attribute the whole success to Rahul Gandhi. What happened to his karishma in Bihar and Orissa? It is a cumulative effect of various factors. Elections are a complex game.
Does the RSS need to reconsider the way it remote controls the BJP?
The fact of the matter is that it should have controlled remotely but it hasn’t. That you can deduce from Sudarshanji’s interview. He sought the resignation of Brajesh Mishra but he couldn’t. So there is no pressure like that. At best, the RSS plays the role of an elder person giving suggestions. It is the BJP that has come to the RSS, twice or thrice. Once at the inception of Jan Sangh, then after the defeat in 1984, and then in 1991, when they asked for more pracharaks. Even in 1984, the RSS told the BJP to return to the ideology of integral humanism. The same as they are being told today.
Given the divisions in the BJP, the way it is rocked, how do you see the future of the party?
I leave it to the wisdom of the leaders. If things go as they are, the party will be reduced in the arithmetic of elections, and then they won’t even hold as many states in power as they do today.
WRITER’S EMAIL
shammy@tehelka.com
From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 25, Dated Jun 27, 2009
I want to start with the concept of Hindutva. What is the meaning of Hindutva? Even senior leaders like Jaswant Singh are asking this question and you were a general secretary with the BJP when this word was coined.
There are five constituents of Hindutva. First, respect to all modes of worship. Second, there is one and the same consciousness in all animate and inanimate beings. There is nothing like inferior or superior. Therefore egalitarianism is Hindutva. Third, man is not a conqueror of nature but a part of nature. Therefore, an eco-friendly economy is what Hindutva proposes. Fourth, because of the special quality of motherhood, women have a special respect in the public welfare society. The purpose of life does not end in eating, making merry and dying, but transcends that. And finally, there is the nonmaterial value of pursuing a goal, even if it may be endless. A faint realisation or feel — that is what Hindutva is. That is what the RSS also believes in.
So how does the RSS expect the BJP to translate this politically?
The BJP must have an understanding of what Hindutva means in terms of governance, economic policies, relating itself to the whole spiral of individuals, society, cosmos and reality. They must understand the statecraft pertaining to these aspects. That is what is expected of the BJP as the political component of the same ideological family.
And you feel that the BJP has failed to translate the concept of Hindutva?
I won’t be uncharitable to them because they neither had any conviction nor did they want to understand Hindutva. Therefore they cannot be blamed for functioning contrary to their beliefs. In a way, they were the tools of pseudo-Hindutva. For example, the content and tenor of Varun Gandhi’s election speech could be endearing to some people, but it wasn’t Hindutva. It is pseudo-Hindutva of the reactionary, irresponsible kind. In response to MG Vaidya’s article, if BJP president Rajnath Singh says that he is a strict adherent of Hindutva and so is his party, he is also being opportunistic; without having the onus to prove that they are following Hindutva.
Are you saying that the current leadership of the BJP, including President Rajnath Singh, is practising pseudo-Hindutva?
Yes, because they neither have the conviction nor the commitment. They think politics is everything - from the beginning till the end. Their thought process revolves only around power. They are more of achievers than performers.
They have not succeeded in achieving either. The BJP is down to 116 seats in the 2009 Lok Sabha election.
They still have some six to seven state governments and for the post of prime minister, they had a challenger in Advani. They had enough to win with and therefore I wouldn’t attribute much value even if they had come to power. How they function and what they can deliver is more important. For example, if ecofriendly techno economic order is Hindutva as I see it, then the attitude and response of the Uttarakhand government should’ve been different to the ecodestructive hydel projects that don’t subscribe to the norms. Such an unscrupulous handling of such a pious issue like Gangaji speaks of how hollow the claim of having worked with Hindutva is. There could have been 100 ways of generating electricity to fulfil the needs of Uttarakhand and saving the surplus too without destroying the fragile eco-balance of Uttarakhand. Similarly, there were five more alternatives for Sethu Samudram Pariyojna, for which even the environmental assessment could not be carried out. They catered to the ideology of Hindutva neither as a party in power nor as a party in opposition. They could not endear to vast mass of supporters they had gathered 20-25 years back. They ran out of that capital.
How is the RSS leadership viewing the election results?
As a responsible swayamsevak, this is how I read the mind of the RSS leadership — the RSS will have a straight talk with the BJP now, and tell it to decide what kind of relationship it wants to have with the RSS. Whatever the paradigm of the relationship was till now, it needs to be discussed further. If needed, the mechanism has to be thrashed out. The RSS will tell them: if you want to go without us, don’t worry; you are welcome to take your own course. We don’t even attribute good or bad values to it. If you are taking yourself with us then we will proceed on our own path. We feel that we don’t need any appendage or extra baggage. Nor any crutches. The RSS can walk straight without the crutches of the BJP. This is the message the Sangh leadership has given to the BJP. One more thing, if at all the BJP thinks of having a relationship with the RSS, then the RSS has made it clear that it should function in terms of ideology. The Sangh will then definitely want to have a say, command and intervention. That’s what they have conveyed to the BJP.
To Advani or Rajnath Singh?
To both.
You said the RSS does not need the crutches of the BJP. But isn’t the opposite true – the BJP needs the Sangh?
I don’t know. There is a big section in the BJP – and the number has gone up in the last 15 years — that thinks that the RSS is an appendage and that if they get rid of the RSS, they will be able to fly much higher. I will just compare this with an anecdote of a soaring kite, which is connected to a thread. The kite may think that it can fly on its own, and if it thinks it better to delink the thread and soar higher, it’s okay.
Which is the section in the BJP that thinks it can do without the RSS?
I had a glance over the list of the MPs elected this time. Of them, 30 odd MPs have some link, weak or strong, with the RSS or with its ideology of integral humanism; the ideology propounded by Deendayal Upadhyay. That’s the basic ideology of the BJP, even today. But there are about 85 MPs who may not have even heard of Deendayal’s ideology. And among them there may be many who may think that the RSS is not needed. If this is the problem with the composition of this parliamentary party, then the executive committee will have the same problem. The BJP therefore is a party full of opportunists and careerists and if I were to be charitable, then I can say that it is a party full of liberal democrats. They are taking politics only as a career, or a dhanda.
image
What about the better-known leaders of the BJP like Advani, Jaswant Singh, Arun Jaitley, Sushma Swaraj and Yashwant Sinha. Does the RSS consider them as careerists and opportunists?
There is not just one group. There are subgroups. There is a phenomenon of ego conflicts and personality clashes. Such factors are there in the BJP and this has created many complications. Suppose the person speaks in favour of Hindutva, it does not mean that the person is actually in favour of Hindutva. For him, it may be suitable at the moment. Among other parties also I have seen many people who privately say that they are strong Hindus but don’t say it openly. I have found these double standards in some BJP leaders also. For example, if one says Ram Janmabhoomi is a cheque which can be encashed only once, what does it mean? Similarly, there are innumerable examples, anomalies, conflicts, duplicities. So what I feel is that 20 to 25 MPs can talk on ideology. Whether they can function as a lobby needs to be seen.
As far as the RSS is concerned, you said it is okay if the BJP goes a separate way, but if they don’t, what would the RSS expect of the BJP?
Perhaps some people of the RSS and the BJP must be sitting together to chalk out a roadmap on how to bring the BJP back on the roads of ideology and idealism. It may also happen that the RSS may think in terms of promoting new names from the lower rung of the party cadre and also freshly induct from other organisations.
Was the RSS totally behind projecting Advani as the BJP’s PM candidate?
It was.
Did he make a mistake by running a presidential style campaign?
I didn’t keep the track of the election. I saw it from a distance. I think the basic premise of the election campaign itself was on a wrong footing. It said, ‘mazboot neta, nirnayak sarkaar’. People’s issues could have been projected better instead of entering into an arena of competition.
‘BJP leaders are tools for pseudo-Hindutva. They are opportunists who use Hindutva as a vote plank. For them, politics is a career, a dhandha’
Do you refer to Advani harping on Manmohan Singh being a weak PM?
That is one issue. Similarly, in the realm of mazboot neta or strong candidate, the issue of Kandahar kept coming up. It was really a competition between two weak prime ministerial candidates. On the one side, there was Manmohan Singh and on the other side there was Advaniji. Both of them were weak. As home minister, Advani’s comparison can only be made with Shivraj Patil. There was nothing much to choose from.
Do you think the BJP runs the risk of losing its space as a national party?
In the present scenario, BJP exists as a competing political force more at the state level than at the Centre.
So it is no longer a national force?
It is not a national party in terms of ideology, policies, and conviction. I feel the Congress and BJP are both pro-US and pro-rich. This does not go in favour of Bharat. Take disinvestments — when the UPA mentioned it, Arun Jaitley said that was also their position, so both BJP and Congress become pro-disinvestments.
One of the things that created quite a stir is what Sudheendra Kulkarni wrote for TEHELKA. He said that the RSS and the BJP made a strong man like Advani look weak and helpless.
He shouldn’t have made the RSS a scapegoat. In no way was the RSS involved in any kind of election strategies. Only BJP people occupied the war room and they should be held responsible for all this.
Jaitley was a member of the war room. Is it okay that he is now the leader of the opposition in the Rajya Sabha?
See, Rajnath Singh has come out with a dictum – that the BJP take collective responsibility. That does not allow for individual accountability. That, in fact, gives an escape route to everybody, including the BJP president. In Rajnath’s own home state, Uttar Pradesh, there was a pathetic performance. But now I see that he is enacting the same strategies and taking the very steps he took in Uttar Pradesh as its state president (when Kalyan Singh was the chief minister). Those strategies did great damage to the party at that time.
Has the RSS asked for accountability?
No, the RSS does not involve itself unless asked to. The BJP comes for advice. The RSS says if you are fine with it, do it. Face the music.
But then the RSS can’t be happy with Rajnath Singh as the president.
No, the RSS will not analyse in political terms as I am analysing now. I analyse because I have been in the BJP.
But Mr Vaidya’s article enters the political realm.
He only says very sarcastically that if you want to get rid of the RSS, you are welcome. Go ahead, if you dare. And face the music afterwards.
‘Many in the BJP think the RSS is not needed. The BJP has 85 MPs who may not have even heard of Deendayal Upadhyay and integral humanism’
I am quoting from Kulkarni’s article that a lot of the BJP’s allies went away because of Gujarat. Do you agree?
I don’t agree with it. Because the allies have come closer to the BJP for two reasons. One, when they don’t have to protect a Muslim base because there is no Muslim vote base in their state, be it Orissa, Punjab, Haryana or even Tamil Nadu. Two, when they think that the BJP’s vote share is more than the Muslim vote in their state, they just measure it in terms of loss and profit and then they ally, like in Bihar. Therefore the BJP is easy to ditch, like the Telugu Desam Party did. They are all opportunist political groups. Ajit Singh and the TRS had no qualms going against the BJP or coming towards it as the occasion demanded. They are just opportunist groups that take advantage when required for political gains.
The BJP is introspecting the whole business of Hindutva. Do you feel that maybe Hindutva is out of tune with today’s India?
Their perception may be out of date or irrelevant. But Hindutva is a steering wheel for the post-industrial society in the world. Hindutva is tomorrow’s ideology, not just yesterday’s. So the introspection is because of the lack of knowledge, and conviction about Hindutva. So if anybody says that they don’t know anything about Hindutva, I don’t know what they mean.
image
Jaswant Singh said on record that he does not know.
He should have specified as to what he thinks of it. I know personally that he also thinks about Hindutva on the same lines as Govindacharya. If he were given the opportunity to complete his thoughts he would have done it. I am confident about it. Because he is a practicing Hindu.
Does the BJP appear like a party of yesterday because of Hindutva?
It’s because of its opportunist approaches – of treating Hindutva as a vote plank rather than a comprehensive vision and ideology, complete in itself.
Why is the BJP such a divided house?
Because it could not evolve the scientific form of functioning required. The Congress could evolve in a manner that is power-centric. And the Left could also evolve in a style whose history goes back to 1848. When the BJP started out as the Jan Sangh, function methodology was a feeble thought. They thought more about ideology than the style of functioning. I feel personally that the BJP’s main problem is that it lacks a style of functioning. That is why today it appears to be so divided.
Is that why you say there are too many ego problems?
Naturally. If ideology and idealism take a back seat and the style of functioning doesn’t enforce those components, then naturally politics becomes just a power game. You cannot avoid ego-politics and ambition clashes. There has to be something more moral and superior as the chief parameter. When that goes missing, only vote gaining and fund raising capacities matter. Gradually, the degeneration starts. Sycophancy and conspiracy take front seats. Dedication, sacrifice, hard work – they will not matter.
‘The election was a competition between a weak Manmohan Singh and a weak Advaniji. The slogan“mazboot neta, nirnayak sarkar” was wrong’
Was it a mistake to project Narendra Modi’s name as the PM?
It was certainly by default. Not by design. Arun Shourie held a press conference in Ahmedabad and said that Modi has all the capabilities of becoming a PM, which was thoroughly unwarranted. But the war room should have taken immediate initiative to instruct all the responsible office bearers of the party to not engage or respond to this question. But they just sat. So this issue was raised by the opponents and also by the media.
Is there a feeling within the RSS that perhaps it’s time for Advani to retire?
The RSS, unless asked to think and advise on these aspects, will not apply its mind on such issues.
That’s not true because some years ago, Sudarshanji said on camera that there should be a retiring age.
As a person, he may have said that, but it was never discussed in any forum of the RSS. It was not a collective feeling.
Is there such a thought now?
Advaniji has definitely expressed the will for a retired life. He desires it and deserves it also. He doesn’t deserve this kind of lampooning and cartooning from either the media or from within the sections of the BJP. He deserves a happy and serene life.
So why defer it till December?
I don’t think there is any such decision. I don’t think there will be any change except that the working time of Rajnath Singh is ending in December. Advani has never said anywhere that he is going to quit in December. This is rumour, conjecture.
Who will make a good president of the BJP after Rajnath retires?
I don’t want to spoil the chances of that person by naming him. He will be unnecessarily targeted.
‘Advani wishes a retired life; he desires it and deserves it also. He doesn’t deserve to be lampooned by either the media or the party’
So are you a ruling out a ‘she’?
(Laughs.)
What do you think of Yashwant Sinha’s letter?
Yashwant Sinha had all the time at his disposal in the last 10 years. He should have deliberated upon these matters with all the responsible people concerned.
Somebody like AB Vajpayee, who was considered to be more moderate, was able to lead the party to power at the Centre. There’s something that needs to be said about the moderate face. Does the RSS also need to introspect?
At that time Atalji was the supreme leader. He never adhered to Hindutva.
That’s my point. If the BJP, without adhering to Hindutva, could be in government for six years...
But they could not win on the basis of disconnecting themselves from Hindutva. Because of Hindutva they rose from 2 to 182 seats in the 1980s and when they left it, they came to 137, and now 116. Let them experiment. They are more than welcome. But don’t blame Hindutva.
There is something called a youth vote now and in contrast, the BJP came across as a communal party. That’s why I am asking, should the RSS too not introspect?
Don’t attribute the whole success to Rahul Gandhi. What happened to his karishma in Bihar and Orissa? It is a cumulative effect of various factors. Elections are a complex game.
Does the RSS need to reconsider the way it remote controls the BJP?
The fact of the matter is that it should have controlled remotely but it hasn’t. That you can deduce from Sudarshanji’s interview. He sought the resignation of Brajesh Mishra but he couldn’t. So there is no pressure like that. At best, the RSS plays the role of an elder person giving suggestions. It is the BJP that has come to the RSS, twice or thrice. Once at the inception of Jan Sangh, then after the defeat in 1984, and then in 1991, when they asked for more pracharaks. Even in 1984, the RSS told the BJP to return to the ideology of integral humanism. The same as they are being told today.
Given the divisions in the BJP, the way it is rocked, how do you see the future of the party?
I leave it to the wisdom of the leaders. If things go as they are, the party will be reduced in the arithmetic of elections, and then they won’t even hold as many states in power as they do today.
WRITER’S EMAIL
shammy@tehelka.com
From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 25, Dated Jun 27, 2009
Monday, June 15, 2009
We're even more racist than Aussies : Jug Suraiya (TOI).....& Public Platform
The attacks on Indians in Australia have once again raised the ugly head of racism. Once again India is caught up in the midst of a racist storm. A while ago, the Big Brother controversy launched Shilpa Shetty as an international anti-racism icon from India. This is entirely appropriate as Indians are arguably the biggest targets of racism in the world. And they are targeted not just by unlettered British yobs or Australian thugs but, first and foremost, by their own compatriots. It's because we are so racist ourselves that we are so quick to react to a racist slur: it takes a racist to catch a racist. And our racism is colour-coded in black-and-white terms: white is intrinsically superior and desirable; black is inferior and undesirable.
In the Indian colour scheme of things, black is far from beautiful. The colloquial word for a black person of African origin is 'habshi', an epithet as offensive as the American 'nigger', both terms derived from the days of the slave trade.
For all India's official championing of the anti-apartheid crusade in South Africa's erstwhile white regime, north India at least is steeped in colour prejudice - ask any African student who's had a taste of Delhi's campus life. For the north Indian, fair is lovely, as those abominably tasteless TV commercials keep proclaiming: Don't get sunburnt, use skin whitening creams, or you'll end up dark and no one will marry you. (When did you last see a matrimonial ad seeking an 'attractive, dark-complexioned life partner'?)
Why is dark literally beyond the pale for so many of us? Is it an atavistic throwback to the supposed superiority of 'white' Aryans vis-a-vis the 'non-white' original inhabitants of the subcontinent? Is it the result of 250 years of white rule under the British? Is a pale skin, as against a deep tan, a testimonial to social rank, segregating those who don't have to toil under the sun from those who do? Is it an amalgam of all these?
Whatever the reason, 'chitti chamri' (fair skin) is a passport to fawning social acceptance -- which might partly explain why an increasing number of Caucasians look for assignments in India, be it as MNC executives or bartenders in 5-star hotels.
Our racism is largely, but not exclusively, based on colour. Caste is India's unique contribution to the lexicon of racial bigotry. Whether 'caste' - a result of cultural and social segmentation - can legitimately be conflated with 'race' - with its genetic and physiological underpinnings - is a matter of academic debate. However, as only too many horror stories testify, the average rural Dalit fares worse on the human-rights scale than her 'kafir' counterpart in the worst days of South African apartheid.
Caste apart, real or imagined ethnic traits compound our racism. People from the north-east are said to have 'Chinky' (Chinese) eyes and are routinely asked if they eat dogs. Even in so-called 'mainstream' India we sub-divide ourselves with pejoratives: 'Panjus', whose only culture is agriculture; stingy 'Marrus'; mercenary 'Gujjus' who eat 'heavy snakes' for tea; lazy, shiftless 'Bongs'; 'Madrasis', who all live south of the Vindhyas and speak a funny 'Illay-po' language. In our ingrained provincialism is our much-vaunted and illusory unity.
No wonder we can't stand racism. It reminds us disquietingly of the face we see in our own mirror.
PUBLIC COMMENTS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well Said... so true..
Just assume if we had africans or dark skinned people in mainstream india, do u think we would let them live normally??
I guess western countries r a lot more nicer that india in tolerance levels...
Even if u you cant digest it, you must accept the fact that india is after all a third world country.. you cannot except people to give u respect like people frm the first world country get...
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SG says: June 08, 2009 at 12:38 PM IST
I agree. The way we treat our own countrymen is appalling. The way we treat our own kind for colour of their skin goes against all decency, and anyone who has had the sad experience of seeing how N-E students, foreign students (esp. Africans) are called names and tormented would know what we are capable of. Not that is excused the Australians (who have always been racist under the guise of being honest about their feelings), but it is time we look at ourselves. What's the point in calling a pot black when...
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Mathew K M says: June 08, 2009 at 12:42 PM IST
There are areas in Tamil Nadu where Dalits can’t go. There are temples and public wells where Lower casts are prohibited. Go to Kerala, where you can find many politicians following Marxism preferring only their in-laws from own (upper community)! So we can’t complain about curry bashing when we can’t treat our own people equally!
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ram says: June 08, 2009 at 12:44 PM IST
Mr .Jug Suraiya where are you now in this world. If you are in Indian and posted this coloumn, then come out to Australia , UK etc and face the real racism. I think you completly lost what you want to express here. Shame.
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Parvinder Singh says: June 08, 2009 at 12:50 PM IST
I agree with most of your points and would like to highlight what you missed (may be intentionaly to be politically correcct). I think simplest example of this is to see what Marathi people do to Bihari's or how Tamilian is treated in Kannada state and ofcourse how north Indian is treated in South India or vice-versa. I mean this is not racism than what and it proves again and again that India is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to racism.
Also through my comment I want to ask "Times Now" why they can dedicate 60% of their shows for incidents in Australia and not even 20% to what happens in Mumbai or in Mangalore pubs. Why can't they do similar follow ups with home ministry or state ministry here what they are doing with Australian government.
I know everybody feels bad when you get into their country; do jobs that what they were supposed to be doing; living a life which they cannot being from their own country......but before going and cribbing about outside world there is a serious need to look inside and correct things.
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sanju says: June 08, 2009 at 12:51 PM IST
We are certainly more racist.I have lived abroad and seen some racism but the extent of ageism I have seen in India is hundred times of racism I have seen abroad.
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Dawn says: June 08, 2009 at 12:52 PM IST
I totally agree with you Jug
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Rohan says: June 08, 2009 at 12:52 PM IST
Brilliant observation, we're one of the most hypocritical nations on earth and don't have the courage to look within and see how we've rotted as a civilization. Only by looking within can we start bringing about big change.
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Rohit Pant says: June 08, 2009 at 12:54 PM IST
Hi...this is very true.Racists attacks on Indians is really sad but as pointed out we too have to make sure that such issues do not crop up in our motherland. Even to this date there is a divide among people hailing from different parts of the country. People hardly seem to respect each other's tradition culture let alone sentiments.
-Rohit
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joy says: June 08, 2009 at 12:56 PM IST
You obviously live in the western world.
Race is racial stock not just colour.
Caste is not based on birth but based on mental make-up and virtuous action.
We may have names for people like chinky etc, but we dont beat up people because omebody is a mallu or maaru-right?. Our anti-racial slur, if there is any, is regional and not racial stock. we all belong to the same racial stock be it a mallu or gujju.
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mike says: June 08, 2009 at 12:56 PM IST
dude stop writing all this point in time, its not worthy. I am in Australia, and can feel the heat whats going around, you should at this point in time, writing about whats going on in Australia, Indian society is changing for good, it will not change overnight.
Raise your voice for the right cause not for just writing your mind anywhere and everywhere.
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ruchit says: June 08, 2009 at 12:57 PM IST
At the end of the day Indians deserve this bashing for being the greatest racists on the planet earth. Caste system is nothing but racism directed by Aryans towards natives of India.
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Avijit says: June 08, 2009 at 12:59 PM IST
Hi Jug,
It was a mind boggling idea you presented. This is not the first time I am experiencing an endangered species like you. Is the matter is so easy to accept for us that any body in the world can do any thing against us and government will stay mum. And people like you dilute the matter like it’s another routine incident of racism. Sorry to say you that please don’t do it. Indians are suffering ....my brothers and sisters are batten in Australia.
Please don’t laugh on them..It’s your blood ...and it’s your responsibility to protect them.
If you cant..Please don’t say some garbage on media.
Thanks,
Avijit
(A MBA student from London)
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Mel Pat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:04 PM IST
Author is right in his perception of our sentiments. I would like to make a note that we as Indian is being attacked and kept suppressed for centuries. Now every one wants justice and that too without using their basic minimum IQ. We need to make our self educate first about strenghts and limitation that we have and then develop a common strategy rather than jumping in band-wagon.
Attraction towards white skin is common with us as we are always wheatish in complexion and different color attracts us more than usual. Black dont attracts us as its been taught for centuries that black is no good. Black is color of doom so no one is attracted towards it. To me it seems that at some point in future whole population of world will become one color and distinction will lost looking to the pace at which people are mixing with each other and among different casts, creeds, religion and nations.
Though saying we are completely racist is not an appropriate comment. We treat most people from all different country very warmly as we learned that 'Atithi Devo Bhavah!" and most of us follow that blindly. Its when we are being overlooked or taunted we change our attitude. It is always true that we can't see our face in boiling water and when we are furious we convert ourself in non-human phenomenon which is perceived as racism.
We as Indian needs nothing else but fair treatment and attitude by keeping in mind that we have to be same what we are expecting.
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Vic says: June 08, 2009 at 01:05 PM IST
Agree 100%.
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Abhi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:05 PM IST
It would be great to stay on the topic of current events rather than deliver a lecture on racism, casteism within India. Unnecessary non sense stuff !!
Have you ever got beaten up abroad ?
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Abid says: June 08, 2009 at 01:06 PM IST
So True :)
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Amogh says: June 08, 2009 at 01:08 PM IST
I dont agree. We dont go about beating up people because they are dark skinned. We do not hold back jobs based on colour. What rubbish are you speaking?
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M S Sastry says: June 08, 2009 at 01:10 PM IST
Don't be such an ignoramus, mr Suraiya. India has never been racist, and will never be. You must be a complete illiterate to equate the caste system with racism.
Secondly, do you have any of your sons or daughters at Melbourne ? Then only you will know what anguish and anxiety are all about.
I have a son there and I am asking him to come back immediately.
Stick to you funny columns - I for one do enjoy reading them. leave your opinions in your toilet.
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Sai says: June 08, 2009 at 01:11 PM IST
Are you asking us to tolerate the current acts of racism in Oz just because there are some racist elements right here in India?
Does it really take a racist to catch a racist? Are you a racist yourself that you explained so well about different forms of racism?
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Rinaldo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:17 PM IST
The uproar over racism incident in Australia is a case of the 'The pot calling the kettle black'. We Indians are the most racist and casteist than any other nation in the whole world.
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Rinaldo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:19 PM IST
The uproar over racism incident in Australia is a case of the 'The pot calling the kettle black'. We Indians are the most racist and casteist than any other nation in the whole world.
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Mark says: June 08, 2009 at 01:20 PM IST
What a brilliant article. I completely agree with you.
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RAJESH VERMA says: June 08, 2009 at 01:20 PM IST
totally disagree with writer views. his research lack many points. he just focused on the points to show racist. but he is not successful. i have not find any of his point is justifible.
writes have "LACK OF KNOWLEDGE" about the different caste and its culture.
writers says "our racism is colour-coded in black-and-white terms"
if this is true. go and check IPL teams and cheerleader irrespective of location. but the players in team having black players also.
we indian consider talent not the black or white color. Bravo, Gayale players from west indies playing with us.
how you stupidily says that we consider color. we consider TALENTS that's true.
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Vaidy says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
I agree. There are other dimensional racisms prevalent in India.
1. Rich Vs Poor
2. Management Vs Labor
3. Politicians Vs People
4. (So called) Upper Caste Vs (So called) Lower Caste
5. Loop Holes in the Law Vs Unfortunate and Hapless People
6. Education Vs Reservation
7. NRI Vs Residents
8. Regional Saviors Vs Open-Minded
So many, Mr.Jug Suraiya. You can keep on thinking about this.
In India, how many sinful souls, raped and/or murdered fellow girls? Robbed fellow citizens? Cheated fellow citizens' belongings? Denied rights to the deserving people in the name of Politics? No one would ever think of these questions.
We do all sorts of sins inside, but we project ourselves as the most cleanliest outside. That's the reality and I have got nothing against my nation or my fellow Indians. Reality is more bitter than one would imagine.
First, build the nation from within with high moral values and World will respond with equal respect. Respect fellow citizens and we will command respect from others.
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Kumar Kale says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
This is our misfortune that we can not do anything to such pseudo writers who write such articles only to grab attention. the issue is: indians are facing racist life threatening attacks in australia! the issue is whether there is rasism rampant in australia. the issue is not whether we are bigger racists than aussies. will a day come when indians like the mr. suraiya stop looking down on his own country and countrymen? this is our misfortune that there is a voice and forum available to persons like suraiya but not to us. this is frustrating.
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Suddha Laik says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
Yeah true , and there's one more quality of us(Indians) . Whenever somebody is speaking for a cause positively , there would be an element who would have to share his plethora of ideas against it . Why does it seem so difficult to stay united for a common cause. It's not a mere topic of dicussion , it's the brutality being meted out to Indian students abroad. C'mmn you can talk of all your ideas after we see that justice is done , can't we ? Is it so difficult for you ?
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Avijit Sett says: June 08, 2009 at 01:23 PM IST
Well Mr. Jur Suraiya, do you consider yourself racist? Or just passing the buck....
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Manoj Saksena says: June 08, 2009 at 01:24 PM IST
"Pointing one finger towards other is pointing four fingers to ourselves' though print and TV media might be slogging aussies for being racist but they are forgetting to mention that we are being returned what we practice. We never complain when we are meted the same treatment by our own people if we travel to another state within our own country.
Aamir khan might not agree with all the blogs posted by the aussies but down within his heart he knows its not untrue.
Why ONLY indians then. Take any country its the indians only who are targeted. a we are not the only hardworking genious asians, chineese are much ahead than us. But Why we only have to suffer. For the simple reason that we are ourselves responsible for our lack of civic sense and absense of mutual respect toward fellow citizens. It doesnt happen in a single day or momrnt. Ask flight attendants of any airline and he/she will have one story about an indian creating scene on board after a drink or two. i have seen people vomiting on thier food trays. I still remember how i had to hold by collar a group of sales persons on an awarded trip to Bangkok who were so abusive and noisy that my infant son couldnt sleep. Even the prostitutes & hotels avoid indian clients becaiuse of thier extreme behaviour. The happenings in autralia is just a small lesson. Though the acts were not at all justified but its better Its better we learn to behave and create goodwill wherever we go.by allowing space to all around us. We travellers and students are the real face of our country and we are the real ambassodors of our own country.
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Balasubramaniam R I says: June 08, 2009 at 01:24 PM IST
I think responsible journalists like Jug Suraiya should desist from raising the same ole topic of Indians are more racist. Hey! If you get kicked on the head and you lie in coma for so many days because of your skin colour or your ethnic background, you will know what it is. Dear Jug, try explaining this nonsense that we are racist to the kids mother or father who gets booted, jeered, petrol bombed and cars torched, because he is a "Bloody Indian". Australian racism is not new so please shut and stay tuned to reality. I do dread the day when a columnist like Jug gets the same verbal and physical abuse when he is Australia. Than he will know whether we Indians are racist or not.
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Indie says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
Message for Avijit -
Mate, I came to Australia as a student 11 yrs ago, and now am well settled here. I have around 15 friends who also came as students and are well settled. We meet the students that are now coming to Australia, many of them from real rural places in India, as it is sooo easy to come to Australia on a student VISA now. You only need about 2 lakhs in Indian currency, and a letter of loan approval from bank undertaking all tution and living expenses (only a letter, not actual loan). Most of the indian students here are coming to do courses in hair dressing and cookery. Who does courses in hair dressing and cookery in India?
All this is just to come here to make money easily, pay off the little fees and get PR. Most of them cant even speak a sentence of english, and their biggest cause of concern and so called suffering is that they cannot find good paying jobs at the moment, everything is too expensive, they cannot afford to pay their fees, living expenses, etc
Hence they are very angry and suffering. Even in the rally in Syndey, most students complained about the 20 hr work restriction that is here in Australia for Inernational students. My question to all indian students coming here is - Are you coming here to study, or just make petty money to send back to India, pay fees and get PR?
In US/UK due to high cost of studies associated with courses, and work restrictions, you get a very good crowd of indian students.
Students who wont even be able to get admission in the worst UNI/COLLEGE in Delhi or Mumbai are coming here to study cookery.
From first day they arrive here, all they are worried about is work. How they can pay off their fees and expenses from day one, start working in an indian restaurant for $6/hr (which is illegal), then they catch trains at midnight/1am in the morning and live in the worst/cheapest suburbs in MElbourne/Sydney to save money.
To be frank, some of them had it coming.
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STEPHEN says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
The guy who wrote this article(is he an aussie?) must read the comments then he will understand what to talk and when.
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Deven says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
Whilst it is true that Indians are obsessed with fair skin, I don't think it is anything to do with Aryan opressing natives etc. Some very handsome and beatiful people in mythology have been described as dark, notably Rama, Krishna and Draupadi. Even in India nowadays beauty depends on complexion and health and I at least do not see any complex in dark people's minds. The change for good is taking place but it will take time. Finally no need to dilute events in Austrailia, whi have shown somewhat haughty (if not violently racist) attitude towards India always, by needlessly focussing on India
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Aby says: June 08, 2009 at 01:26 PM IST
Do you know the foreigners has to pay double charge when flying on domestic airlines in India.
They call it doller pricing.
Isnt that racial ..
Same is the case when we visit national heritage places like Taj or palaces.
I have a Car which has got a KA number plate. I feel the heat when I take the car to other states.. They treat u differently .. They abuse you with more honking or verbal abuse..
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Aurbind says: June 08, 2009 at 01:27 PM IST
Mr Jug,
Thanks for the jug-load of sh!t you penned again! Caste is an "Internal" problem on India, we know and acknowledge that. Throughout the history of our nation, there have been decisive, continuous actions implemented by our government to address this problem.
The problem in Australia is not "Internal", they have theirs with aboriginals. There the issue is the attack on a specific, "foreign" community. You will jump to remind me of crimes against foreign nationals in India. Before you do, there is no pattern you will find where a specific nationality has been attacked! There, Mr Jug, is the distinction between the issues.
As an Indian, we can be the only people who tend to remind ourselves of our own follies, when our countrymen are selectively, helplessly targeted in a far away foreign land. While this is great, and indicative of the great civilization that we are, let's not take away the fast that INDIANS ARE TARGETED. We all must rise and join hands against this, and ensure dignity, safety and freedom for our people, who aren't ordinary Immigrants, but paying community who contribute to the national economy of Australia in a big way.
A proud Delhiwala....friend of Madrasi's, Gujju's, Marathi's .... all who are mine...all who are Indians!
- Aurbind
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Deepak Goel says: June 08, 2009 at 01:30 PM IST
Hi
I am from Singapore, even though we have racism in our own community, atleast we do not assault anyone physically as what is happening in australia.
What do you believe, racism is only at a few places.... I think its a part of everyone life... Just that how wide and open is this. Everyone has preferences for their own group of people for one or another reason, depends how one interpret it.
But what have been happening in Australia for more than a month is really dissappointing and demotivating, and this is even after the so called authorities in Australia have assured for the security of foreign student including Indian students.
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jasmine says: June 08, 2009 at 01:30 PM IST
what a bullshit u r writing,thts all r ridiclous,its nt fair
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MA says: June 08, 2009 at 01:32 PM IST
Dear all
What do you think when raj thakray started the same thing in mumbai. Is this not racism. once we have racism in our own country for our own people then how come we complain about other countries people. Fist of all we should think to accomodate our people in our home then think for others. i never saw any open critism from any where within india very openly when raj has started in mumbai. this exactly same what is happening in australia. every one has fear with other. this australians are thinking that the indians are occupying their place same as raj think for other indians in maharahtra. so please first correct our self then try to change others.
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Ashish SHukla says: June 08, 2009 at 01:35 PM IST
Hold on..it seems that writer is trying to justify Aussie atacks by giving examples of discrimination in indian society. We should work on removing these but this does not justify attacks on indians which is towards all the people of indian origin.
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Kishor says: June 08, 2009 at 01:37 PM IST
I am wondering why attacks are done on Indian Students only while there are many other students from Srilanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh who has complexion simlar to us?
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Rajesh K says: June 08, 2009 at 01:38 PM IST
You are missing the point, its about abuse and persistent physical attacks on a different race, and the kind of local indian behavior you are dubbing as racist exists everywhere... You will see mainlanders calling islanders with funny names and vice versa, its so so normal, also that makes everyone in the world racist doesn't it?
Indians may have other issues, but such attacks on foreigners have hardly occured in India (forget the raping incidents, I think that really is not a race specific issue). calling someone madrasi is not equal to bashing someone because he is a foreigner.
It seems you think these protests are taking place because they happened to some fair skinned indians - do we even care how did the person look like - hearing my countrymen to through such attrocities disturbs us.
And because we have some problems doesn't mean we deserve such treatment.
Regards.
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Amar Kumar Padhi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:39 PM IST
Jug Surya makes a point, but he does so with the backdrop of Australian issue. Wrong time and choice, I must say.
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ragini says: June 08, 2009 at 01:40 PM IST
Absolutely in agreement with Mr Suraiya. This is what i had written a few days back.Let us clean the garbage that infests our mind before shooting off sermons i do not believe that we arn't aware of it!
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Viresh Kumawat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:41 PM IST
Dear Author,
In india people do not hate each other just because they are from different region or country or colour of skin. However this is not true in western country. We indians more of hospitable nature than western people. We are more adjustable and tolerate than western countries.
WE ARE NOT RACIST
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Manoj Bhatnagar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:43 PM IST
Haha ha Its all foolish commentary, Indian have ben the most tolerant of all in the world may be thats why Aryan or Mughals or Europeans came here and ruled.... look at the intrgration of caste and religions we have accepted in this very land and the colours of different shades live and found are no where in the world... don't ever mislead the soceity... grow up like our ancesters were and we boast to be Indians be we Hindu, Muslims, Sikha Christians, Jews or any other origins..... remember we have white and black color in all caste and religions in India... please remember it... dont mix the real issue... today's India is far more understanding and capable.... please make a note of it...... and we continue to develop this land and the world as whole come what may..... tks
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kiran kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:44 PM IST
This should be an eye opener for all us the indians, to see around us first before we point a finger at others also remember when we point finger at some one 3 fingers are pointing at us.
commandable look at our indian mentality and our way of thinking.
-kiran.
http://kirruuk.blogspot.com
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dash says: June 08, 2009 at 01:46 PM IST
AUSTRALIANS HAVE EXTERMINATED ABORIGINS.
AND AMERICANS HAVE RED INDIANS.
EVEN NEIGHBOURING PAKISTAN HAS FINISHED HINDUS BUT NOT US.
MUSLIMS ARE PAMPERED HERE FOR VOTES. HAJIS ARE COMPENSATED FOR THEIR TRAVEL THOUGH THE COUNTRY WAS DIVIDED ON TEH BASIS OF RELIGION.
WE ARE NOT ASKING TO STOP ALL THESE.
JUST STOP PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AND LET PEOPLE NOT DIE OF HUNGER.
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nadeer says: June 08, 2009 at 01:48 PM IST
'Habshi' is not offensive. It is the arabic for 'Ethiopian'
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Rishi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:49 PM IST
Talk about your self Jug suraiya, cause I am not!!
Shameless attention seeking Indians like you are the reason we are treated like this.
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kaly says: June 08, 2009 at 01:49 PM IST
Caste system is bigger than racism. Even in India bad people do bad thing using castes. And unfortunately this number is high.
Most of the people here in UK ( even if they dont like each other) say thanks/ hello etc. We dont have such mannerism back home.
However I would like India to stand tall and evolve from these bad incidents.
Students unite! - Kaly
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Murali says: June 08, 2009 at 01:50 PM IST
You are right to a great extent. Racism (or its variants) in India has so many forms. Casteism is a State sponsored method of descrimination by the Government used for preventing certain sections of society from getting jobs and other opportunities. You can see advertisements in the newspapers "...looking for fair complexioned girls..". In many cities, people from the neighbouring states have been attacked due to their origin. e.g., Maharastra, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. The list is endless.
Why do we still pretend that we are not racists? The so called "3000 years of cultural heritage" has resulted in a society that is incapable of understanding its priorities and what is happening the outside world.
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pankaj says: June 08, 2009 at 01:50 PM IST
Even in INDIA itself if north indians can be beaten up in Mumbai that to by indians only,then australians can do the same with all indians in Australia .If in our own country itself we are not safe den why to expect the same from Australia?
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rav says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
It is very strange and good article from indiatimes without first time on net title. Write some good article like this than any other emotional stories.
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Venkat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
What is the relevance? WE are also big time boot lickers for white people. Is it relevant too? None of this is relevant. What is relevant is at this point of time, people are being attacked with Racial motives. In India, Race is restricted to Inter-regional races and on indian citizen. Not on our guests on racial basis (could be other reasons).
Your article only side steps the issue of safety of our students in Australia. Sorry.. your article fails miserably.
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Manoj Bhatnagar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
Haha ha Its all foolish commentary, Indian have ben the most tolerant of all in the world may be thats why Aryan or Mughals or Europeans came here and ruled.... look at the intrgration of caste and religions we have accepted in this very land and the colours of different shades live and found are no where in the world... don't ever mislead the soceity... grow up like our ancesters were and we boast to be Indians be we Hindu, Muslims, Sikha Christians, Jews or any other origins..... remember we have white and black color in all caste and religions in India... please remember it... dont mix the real issue... today's India is far more understanding and capable.... please make a note of it...... and we continue to develop this land and the world as whole come what may..... tks
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Akshay Muttoo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:52 PM IST
Indians are the biggest hypocrists in the world. 11 Indians attached in Australia and we are making a noise, what about the countless attacks on foreigners in India. The ways we treat their women in India these attacks on Indians is nothing. Indians do not treat them with slightest great dignity and respect and expect the world to treat them fairly. India is probably one of the most unsafe countries for foreigners. Try and make India safer for foreigners and you shall see a difference in the way indians will be treated abroad.
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WOW says: June 08, 2009 at 01:52 PM IST
This article misses the point completely. Whether we as Indians are racist or not is besides the point, under no circumstances do we go around beating people of other races. Jug, you are a simple minded fool looking to get some attention by posting contrarian, poorly thought out arguments in the name of "fairness".
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Teresa says: June 08, 2009 at 01:53 PM IST
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU JUG.
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deepak says: June 08, 2009 at 01:53 PM IST
arre bhailog....its nt abt racism in india...everyone knows tht we r diverse nation wid lot of struggling issues abt poverty, caste, religion, color etc.... BUT main issue is tht AUS n other developed nations r far more civilized society thn ours and talented educated students who r contributin to their economy n research r being beatn up.. which is pathetic..pitty on their thinkin n d way thy r handlin the situation, still they think like idiots...thy r failed state ironically as of now...Big B did rite thin, these ppl who behave like uncivilized n unhuman n pretend to be civilized, see their well known kangroos cric team track record n behavior...its everywhere ..diff is its now more happening in Aus which is a matter of urgent concern...boycott dm or best way is tit 4 tat...who attacks give dem double dose in their own manner, beat dem up if dey do it first n turn dem white to red, u hv rite 2 protect urself...is self defence bros !! keep ur heads up...try ur level best, we r wid u. May GOD bless poor aussie with +ve thinkin n bless us wid perseverance n strength 2 bear this tough time together. Jai Hind !
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Dinesh B Renose says: June 08, 2009 at 01:55 PM IST
The atteck on INDIAN is very sad¬ justified.Why we (INDIAN)Under the RULL of MOGHAL 1000 year&Rull under Britiser 500 years,because of OUR Cateism.THANKS to SARDAR PATEL,He gethered us in ONE UMBRAILLA.We are most RACIST community in the WORLD.In all over INDIA 'JATIVAD'.Don't blame other First you do the wright JOB then advice other.Why they not rais there FINGER in all over the STETE of INDIA,poor -DALIT-not get fundamental right,Because of DAIRTY Casteism.
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Dinesh B Renose says: June 08, 2009 at 01:57 PM IST
The atteck on INDIAN is very sad¬ justified.Why we (INDIAN)Under the RULL of MOGHAL 1000 year&Rull under Britiser 500 years,because of OUR Cateism.THANKS to SARDAR PATEL,He gethered us in ONE UMBRAILLA.We are most RACIST community in the WORLD.In all over INDIA 'JATIVAD'.Don't blame other First you do the wright JOB then advice other.Why they not rais there FINGER in all over the STETE of INDIA,poor -DALIT-not get fundamental right,Because of DAIRTY Casteism.
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Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 01:58 PM IST
Lets not blame Australians alone,as Jug Suraiya said racism is very much there in Indians and is deeply embedded in our blood.I remember the days when in early 80,s south Indians were addressed as Makalus in the North Indian campuses and the Africans as Kalias and the many of the students from North never used to mingle with southern students.I will not say they were all bad but some were who chose to tease the south Indians dayin and out.Some of the students from North used to be veryfriendly and used to take care of the south Indian students from these teases.Now coming to Australia I had an oppurtunity to stay there for two months on a couple of occassions recently.I find them very helpfull and friendly and some of the incidents happened recently may be abberation done by a few disgruntled and rowdy elements which are there in each society worldover.There may be many more cases of Australians helping Indian students and also halting such attacks which generally no body reports.Generalising and creating a furore is not good in a civilised society.In fact we Indians resist adopting the local cultures and my observation is that only we speak loudly in the Trains and restaurants while the local culture is not to disturb others and speak in that tone.While the attacks should definetely be condemned and I am sure Australians being so friendly the Australian Govt. would take needfull action,we also should adopt to the local culture and not disturb or distract the culture which they live in.
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Rohan says: June 08, 2009 at 01:59 PM IST
Mr.Jug,
Thanks for the article. I wonder why 3/4th of the aricle is explaining the justification that If we base our attraction on fairness then voilence in other country because we are brown is justified.
1. yes I agree we are DIFFERENTIAL, but w ehavnt left COLOUR CODDING in our GOVT OR Education.
Nor is Singh the fairness idol nor is chidambaram the Northindian sitiing in delhi!
2. By forgetting that that biggest examples of our country are not precidented on colourcoding U are making local people easy target
3.yes the adds speak true that colour fairness is biased towards the bridal section, but how many u young u know are Marrying Only on that criteria.
4.CASTE inherently is our identity, but we dont forget that we are INDIANS first, if that needs to be reminded.Discrimination on caste is not right yes but Dont forget that choice FOR EVERY INDIAN IS DEMOCRATIC.
5.IF we were that rascist that provoked u to reflect and focus it to entirely on indians to reflect on themselves, so are u their by suggesting that those who have brown colour hjave no options to get beaten up cause we are in midst of all this.
6.VOILENCE IS NEVER THE ANSWER. to all those who go on about marathi manoos, dont u knwo that if shiv sena was voted out this time, majority of marathi DOESNT want them.
7.STOP GENERALISING MR. JAG SURYA.
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Anuj Joshi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:59 PM IST
Jug surraiyya,
Though generally like your columns but this one is a little too much. This is just the same tendency as most of us indians have when talking about ourselves w.r.t anything. After 26/11 we immediately started looking at our faults and how India is inherently prone to such attacks instead of looking at how do we handle the international diplomacy to contain Pakistan. Instead of condemning the Oz attacks unanimously, we have started rationalizing with what and why. The question right now is not whether we are racist or not, it is that Australians for sure are. Try telling this non-sense to fathers and mothers of kids who have got brutally killed and assaulted.
Atleast senior journalists like you are supposed to be responsible in your responses to such things.
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ashish gupta says: June 08, 2009 at 02:00 PM IST
First and foremost thing I want to say everybody that "No country is perfect". Even Australian have problem with Aborignial, italian and vietnamese or chinese. Now what is the difference between indian citizen and australian citizen is this:
1. After happening so much still Australian will support their community and be positive. However, Indians will start blaming each other and try to find a point to attack their own community. Blaming does not resolve issue,it's easy game to play.
2. If Australian makes a crime or been problem in another country, they try to help every way to get out that person whereas India they think twice in economic or money term so that they dont hampher any relation another country. Even Indian Australian told me, "I m safe because I've got a family & old so chance of attack is less to none" which is an act of coward. It seems Indian dont do anything unless and untill it knocks their door.
3.Looking beautiful and racism are two things. I prefer healthy girls against slim that makes me racist. Answer is "NO", but it will make me racist if I treat slim girl badly or dont give job because she is slim. Tell me a guy who does not like beautiful girl however meaning of beauty differs from guy to guy.
4. Caste is a problem but this is not time to discuss and blame each other but help each other. Remember 1 thing if you dont respect your community nobody else will respect, like if you are not happy you cannot make other happy.
5. Another issue greed and fear bcos I've seen some journalist writing absoulute rubbish which makes me think that this journalist has been purchased by others.Remember 1 thing if you have life then money worths,no-life money is a peice of paper. Same way if you dont speak, dont demand you will never get it. Be bold and speak out & help your community.
Finally we should respond to situation not react to the situation. Like we should ask for data like 1.how many thugs or little terrorist have been captured by Ausgov et
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Suraj Thomas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:00 PM IST
You are absolutely correct...We Indians call black people "Kaala" and whites "Gorra". We are the biggest racist in the world. Even between our fellow states, Indian people are seeing through racist eyes. North Indians doesn't like a South Indian. The simple example of our racist discrimination is Raj Thakkare's bihari attacks. We should correct ourselves before cricticizing the Aussies.
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Chetan Puri says: June 08, 2009 at 02:02 PM IST
I am In Australia and fully agree with Mr. Jug.Indian society is the most racist and hypocratic society.I have never ever experienced any racism in Australia what I did in India. The worst country in the worldI will say is India where people are so racist for their own people.
Keep it up Mr. Jug that you are in India and can speak truth.
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tenzin says: June 08, 2009 at 02:02 PM IST
The writer aptly remarked that India is more racist in its term. Accumulation of experience of facing Indian society especially knocking the door of Burueacrat are the worst experience I ever had. The root of its causes lies in the mentality of Indian mass, though I won't say all the people but majority of them.
The firsthand experience was facing the entry into Delhi University office when I failed to get my result despite appearing in the exams. Second, depriving riot to own or set up of Tourism business in Ladakh and other remote region of India for Tibetan being a refugee. Even to get a document signed takes massive effort even humiliating in front of other people was the worst of all for no cause. Thats why I finally opted abroad, if you have a skill to show you are very welcome to contribute and earn.
I too have witnessed Indian abroad are having the same mentality even when it is not their own country, if gets opportunity they are ridiculing the native. In a way they are inviting trouble by themselve on the first hand. As saying "Be a Roman when you are in Rome".
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Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 02:03 PM IST
Lets not blame Australians alone,as Jug Suraiya said racism is very much there in Indians and is deeply embedded in our blood.I remember the days when in early 80,s south Indians were addressed as Makalus in the North Indian campuses and the Africans as Kalias and the many of the students from North never used to mingle with southern students.I will not say they were all bad but some were who chose to tease the south Indians dayin and out.Some of the students from North used to be veryfriendly and used to take care of the south Indian students from these teases.Now coming to Australia I had an oppurtunity to stay there for two months on a couple of occassions recently.I find them very helpfull and friendly and some of the incidents happened recently may be abberation done by a few disgruntled and rowdy elements which are there in each society worldover.There may be many more cases of Australians helping Indian students and also halting such attacks which generally no body reports.Generalising and creating a furore is not good in a civilised society.In fact we Indians resist adopting the local cultures and my observation is that only we speak loudly in the Trains and restaurants while the local culture is not to disturb others and speak in that tone.While the attacks should definetely be condemned and I am sure Australians being so friendly the Australian Govt. would take needfull action,we also should adopt to the local culture and not disturb or distract the culture which they live in.
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Kalpesh Karnik says: June 08, 2009 at 02:05 PM IST
very well written. people who are talking against the writer are most racist as they only care about what is happening to their race (the educated urban ppl who go out of country for studies). In Australia there are only 1lac indians, where as in india crores of indians are victims if caste/colour/social strata based racism. So the writer has done the right thing by speaking for the majority that are in india and not sum foreign land.
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N Haokip says: June 08, 2009 at 02:05 PM IST
I agree with the writer. We, indians are much more racist than any nation I can think of. Especially the mainland Indians are very insensitive towards the NE people because of their chinese appearances. NE people often suffered the worst form of racist slur within India. Better correct ourselves first and then point fingers at others. As simple as that.
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Vasu says: June 08, 2009 at 02:06 PM IST
I agree that we are the biggest racists of the world. We have inherited it through centuries. The whites cant even imagine of what we do to the lower castes in India. I agree the basic mentality of a human being will be the same and it is the sytem that make to work and behave. Many, including the educated think that they are superior by birth. Some say that it is the reservations in the education and employment fields that is the basic cause for this but it is present in all walks of life. The westerners are definitely far better than us. And one more thing is they dont know what hunger is. We have struggle at every walk of life. If all of us also have atleast basic needs then we will behave much better than what we are now and the politicians also find it difficult to take advantage of the caste system.
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Raj says: June 08, 2009 at 02:07 PM IST
Very True, dont we say that you are south indian or north indian or Bihari or Bhaiya. Even thats racism.
I am writing from Dubai and even on Foreign Soil, we have racism among our self. Mallu's (Malayli ppl), Sindhi or Bihari Bhaiyas... Guys grow up... need to fix our self first and then talk the same to Australians...
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Prashant Sood says: June 08, 2009 at 02:08 PM IST
Good observation but not in the context of the current circumstances
We Indians have some biased opinion about our fellow country men
But it does not go to the extent of physically or mentally harassing them.
So to say we Indians are even more racist than Aussi is only to grab more attention
Which you have got now
But at the same time you have not considered the acts of racism committed in other countries(in this context Australia) and against whom(in this context Indians)
And you are passing a judgement that we are more racist!!
Are you really Jug Suraiya??
I have grown up reading your articles and this one is utter nonsense.
You should be practising responsible journalism on this sensitive issue.
A racist can never catch a racist as he will quietly accept what ever will be dished out to him as he know he is no clean. Only someone who don't agree with such acts will raise his or her voice.
All your article concludes with is we Indians should accept this sort of behaviour and start living with it as we ourself are wrong.
I think you should come up with another article to give a clearer point of view if you don't agree with the points people have raised and try and look at the bigger picture.
One of yours fans
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Deepak says: June 08, 2009 at 02:08 PM IST
I have read many of Jug's articles...and I have always ended up with the same feeling...
Is Jug Suraiya a Western slave?
Why do all his articles show his contempt for India and Indians?
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MuddiedUtopia says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
I have lived and worked in Australia for a couple of years now and feel that racism in Australia is rampant while not openly evident. For professionals, the glass ceiling does apply if you are an Asian. Somehow, this does not seem to be the case with Indians raised in Australia, who have greater acceptance. From my own experience, I felt Melbourne was a cauldron for such racist activity, which hardly rears its ugly head in Sydney or Brisbane. Both the racist attacks and the attitudes towards immigrants though, I think are attributable partly to Arab immigrants. There is a clear cultural and social difference between the ordinary Australian and the Arab youth, magnified in recent times by the lack of education in the Aussie Arab community. This has led to ghettoisation and further differences between the various immigrant societies and naturalised Australians.
The issue of racial attacks must be taken up strongly and not pushed under the rug as certain elements like Yadu Singh seem to suggest. At the same time the issue should not be blown out of proportion by means of aggressive demonstrations that disrupt public life.
That said I have no doubt that India society at large (I do not wish to stereotype every Indian), is highly racist. For all Indians who are abroad and have faced problems in various countries (which I have), it is good to put yourself in the shoes of any foreigner visiting India. From street urchins following you all around, to the never ending stares, atrocious treatment of women and non-Caucasian people…the trauma never ends. I have been barred from entry into a few nightclubs in Australia, but I don’t think an Indian clubs or high-end restaurants allow any African students entry – likening them all to drug peddlers. So many foreign tourists are raped, and god knows how many cases of molestation go unreported.
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MuddiedUtopia says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
continued....
And we reserve this treatment only for foreigners. We treat our own countrymen much differently. Staying away from the issue of caste and religion altogether, it is still evident how Indians from the North-East are treated so shabbily in the rest of the country. Folks from the N-E are “chinki” and worst still girls are “easy”. Indians from UP and Bihar or “bhaiyyas” are regularly beaten up in Mumbai.
One wrong does not justify another. And Indians should protest the racism abroad.
However, let’s realise that the only reason we protest is that we know that outside of our country such protests will have an impact, whereas in India no one would give a damn. We protest because for all these years, a life abroad represented an escape from the harshness of life in India and now we see that utopia being muddied.
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bishwajit says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
Very true...well said.
One must not forget that charity from home. We better look ourselves and realize that people in India doesn't know INDIA as a country first. India Sub-continent is so vast and have so many culture, religions and cast that we end up fighting among ourselves.
Let me ask a question, how many states are there in NE-India? Simpler questions!!! Mizoram is a state or a town/city?
How far is Manipur from Imphal?
Answer these questions first please or u think that this is absurd questions. If u don't know the answers then please agree with the author.
Let’s start our charity from here.
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suryanarayanan says: June 08, 2009 at 02:12 PM IST
i dont agree with you; you are getting confused without understanding caste problem;it is changing we are called underdveloped country but we are progreesing; those madrasi( i am one)mockings have disappeared thanks to dosai, idly etc.(we used to say hai, hai'for hindi like driving an horse cart. now we dont say anymore)the aussies belong to un ''advanced''country an civilzed! so the govt should not allow this to ahppen; esply the aussie univ conducts interviews in india to recruit students.
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Cas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:13 PM IST
With my deepest sympathies to the victims in Australia, I would like to point out the Rape and murder that happens to foreign nationals in places like Goa, Chandigarh etc....Not very Indian now is it???......Finally someone had the balls to write about this.....Totally Agree!!!
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vinny says: June 08, 2009 at 02:14 PM IST
Get it real people Australia was built on criminals shipped boat load from England. Its in the blood.
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Rajesh says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Wrong. You have got it comepletely wrong.
It doesn't take a racist to know a racist, it takes a victim of racism to understand racism.
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Syed Nawid Ahmed says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Mr.Suraiya points out a fact we cannot deny..we might be even the most racist-minded people in the world calling our own countrymen by various names such as "chinky" or "bong", but this is something which has been built into our heads and most certainly 99% of the time used in humour...i studied in a boarding school in chennai with a large mix of children from all over the world..I'm studying in New Zealand now and words like "white boy","brown buzz" are common between my friends..but what's different here is the people haven't considered themselves to be superior..and even if some of them do, they would never go to the length of taking action against their own fancies and hatred.. i'd like to say what happening in Australia is beyond racism....racism can always be taken in a light manner depending on the individuals take on the issue...Right now, the Australian youth is to be questioned...most of the seniors of the country have gracefully let immigrants in too long to be questioned here...the youth in Australia is having this growing sense of pride which has taken an ugly interpretation over the last month...Its the anger of such inhumanity that's leading us to believe that Australia itself is to blame or for that matter any race as a whole...On the other hand, we as Indians while going to a foriegn country should do as much as possible to know about the self-defense laws of the countryin order to not put ourselves in a situation where we have to think before we strike..No country is completely safe...We need to hop out of our shell of vulnerability in the western world...and this can happen only if we are ready to open-mindedly separate good people from bad instead of white from brown
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sagar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Australia is the country with more diverse people in the sense, people from different countries. People on the whole are only considering the attacks on Indians. But to clear you attacks are not only on the Indians. These attacks are also on the people from different countries.Many of the people have said that this attacks are due to racism. but, i think this attacks are carried out by the people who got accustomed to drugs and drinking..They don't find money to satisfy themselves, and get into this actions...i request all of them to please stop this hype regarding racism...increase in the hype from news channels will make it more difficult for the people living here..i do feel this actions from news channel will bring the second thought in the minds of the people who are not racist.Attacks by few groups on Indians doesn't mean that Australia and Australians are racist. i may be wrong but want to share the reality what i see in my day to day life here...
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Vilas More says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Racism is in Indian blood. It has been there from the times of Lord Rama.
Lord Rama beheaded a Shudra named Shambuka for learning Vedas.
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sandeep says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
You dont need to have sons or daughters in Melbourne to understand what racism is for heavens sake. What a silly counter question for the sake of a question. When dailts get killed in dozens by upper castes or vice versa, what is it? Indians are definetely the biggest racists in the world.
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Sanjib Kumar Biswas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Dear Jug Suraiya,
I admire your points on racism. Specially the point of African people who is having taste of Delhi campus. I am working in Africa since past three years and I can see how our Indian friends are treating with these African Citizen. Our Indian fellow treat these people as slave. And when any African people is on their head, Indian people try to be their friend. They try to butter them so save themselves. Today if our countryman facing this in Australia, is just coz of our deeds. Its really a matter of fact that, Only Indians among the Asian people are targetted with racism.
I have seen so many cases like this. If anybody comes from Amerian / Europian counties in india to work with us, we treat them as our boss and they also enjoy it. I have seen my engineer friends to carry their shoes and bags.. lol. But its ture. The reason is we feel that they will recommend us as good chap. And the same when we visit these continents American/ Europian/ Australian. And the same people when visit to African continent they become boss..lol.
@ NorBlackNorWhite,
Dear, we donn beat any foreigner from any African countries, but we avoid them from our group. And the reason why donn beat then is WE CAN'T. We afraid of LAWs..
@ Ram,
theres nothing to feel shame for mr. Jug. He just wrote his blog. And you can't deny to agree on his points. If you speak of coming to US/UK/Aus, u can see my comment on Indian people visiting those countries.
@ Avijit,
Nobody is putting any garbage here in media. You are blamming govt for this. its very easy to finger anybody, but think about the the brain darin. There are lots of MBA colleges in India, even then you moved to UK. During moving to UK, have you ever had any meeting with any govt to support you? No. But u seek help from them, when you are in danger. Don't think what govt did for you, think what u did for India.
We are really sorry for whats happening in Australia. And out govt is even working on it.
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RK says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Aussies have racism like any other country. However, it has never (there are always one or two) been at physical level especially brutal. The recent happenings are just oppurtunistic. The culprits have chosen the soft target. I personally feel police is a waste of resource and the justice system (very gentle) reflects the countries history.
It is with pity that high profile entertainer Khamal (who I had a great regards before, not anymore) recently mentioned that Indians have to get accustomed to the Aussie culture. This statement vindicates the culture of Aussies, at least the trouble making ones. Therefore, to certain extent the new students have to quickly get adapted to the country they live in, at least for their safety after all they have moved to a developed country. Sometimes it is inevitable to dish out what is been dished to you.
If parents and other people can take this with no offence, things WILL NOT get better. It is just a co-incidence as far as police are concerned. Of course things happen in India, where the population is vast compared to Australia. However, it has never happened to people from one particular country, after all India is a third world country. I cannot understand the concept when people, compare such kind of crimes as a pre cursor to make a crime and use the fair skin to escape the situation.
Just on that note, I am confident that in the past at least one culprit was convicted of such kind of hatered against Christian people and was sentenced to death. Will that happen in Australia, I do not think so. Therefore, people compare certain aspects to their benefit and totally ignore or hide other aspects.
The bottom line is Indians WILL NOT get any help from Aussie police / government. Indians are seen as cash cows let it be students or working members.
As per the entertainer's statement on national TV, Indian students should quickly adapt to the Aussie culture of whatever it is. Goodluck people
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Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 02:22 PM IST
Mr. Author,
Atleast we don't beat/harass foreigners just because they are from a specific country. Your articles is full of nonsense and bullshit arguments. I respect people, who are elder than me, but looks like you have lost your sense at this age.
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Vidyadhar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:23 PM IST
Very true sir,
We need intreospection before shouting "foul".
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dannydev says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
Racism isn't about beating someone up, its how you view or typecast someone because of his skin color or where he comes from.
Its a behaviour and mindset issue and the actions like beating someone up or calling someone a "Big Monkey" are just the result.
Lets face it the whole world is racist and the reason is that as humans we find it extremely difficult to accept someone different, either in colour, religion or culture. Its just more violent in some places that the other, e.g UK and now Australia. A few examples
1. Southern states in the USA still don't like African Americans and Latin Americans
2. Within India itself we are a nation of division by diversity. Try being accepted in Chennai if you are a north Indian or vice versa
3. Dot busters in the UK or just the KKK
The list is endless. The only way of fighting this is by teaching our children never to differentiate and never hesitating to correct someone who holds this view. You may not change him, but just make it more difficult for him to influence 10 other people
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Atul says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
Jag - your blog is spot on. Nail on the head. Indians are the worlds most racist. Starts with child berth, first question , Is the child fair or dark? or read the matrimonial ads. Racist to the core. Shame on Indians .Make no mistake Caste is a race issue. well done Suraiya. Wish TOI editor reads your blog.
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DD Joshi says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
We are working on north indian and south indian system, brahimin and kayasthi, othry types e.g. Desi and PAAVHI
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Shailesh says: June 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM IST
In India we do have racism and whole lot of other problems.But what about Australia, it is supposed to be developed society/country (At least what they claim to be). The question here is not about what happens in India, it is about what is happening in Australia. Henceforth no develop country should have any right to say Racism exists only in India "The so called Third world country".
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Sai says: June 08, 2009 at 02:26 PM IST
Care a damn whether Indians are racist or not. What ever be it, the attacks in Oz cannot be justified. If it takes a racist to identify racism then the author is blatantly racist. All those here empathising with the attackers in Oz need to do some soul searching.
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James says: June 08, 2009 at 02:26 PM IST
hmmm., I dont think it is fair to compete in the racism issue by way of comparison. Australia and India are very distinct countries. The cause for the current trend against Indians is that Indians are not as aggressive when confronting foreigners in foreign land. This is an issue, but than again, what would an average human do against 15-16 thugs, sometimes with weapons.
India, has a strong history of racism, some of which were clearly depicted in the narrative above. Especially that almost billion dollars worth of skin whitening creams are sold throughout the country.
All the while, I believe it is wrong to say that Indians are more racist that Aussies, as the scenes in both cases are very different. Imagine Australia having a population of a Billion people; while this is far from the point, racism is everywhere, due to inadequacies of the mind, inability of human recognition as one people. Environment and demographics play an important role.
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Sky says: June 08, 2009 at 02:28 PM IST
Very well said.
Though time is difficult for our countrymen in Australia and we need to support them by whatever means. Yet, this is the right time to introspect as well because once this difficult time is over we will forget to see what we are made off and will never ever think of taking our inner racisim off. And the truth is that we are so called Racist not by one mean but by many means and if any here wants a proof just get out of your computer rooms stand on the road for a while and you find it without any difficulty
Ver well said Mr Suraiya
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SM says: June 08, 2009 at 02:30 PM IST
Thanks for speaking out the reality. Indians are racists. Indian government promotes double standards, and a lot of work needs to be done.
I still don't understand why the entry ticket to the Taj Mahal is Rs. 20 for Indians and Rs 750 for foreigners. That's the equality the Indian government promotes. More than 60 years of independence jobs are still reserved on the basis of casts. Looks at the foreign students harassed and made fun of in India.
I think, a lot of work needs to be done in India itself.
Beyond that, what's happening in Australia is really disappointing. I didn't know Australians insist doing mistakes for a hundred years before they realize they were wrong.
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An Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 02:30 PM IST
Hi JUG jus wanted to ask you,What do you do when your kid dies due to doctors mistake? As per this article of yours:- you will be calm smiling saying thats not a big deal, it happens regularly with others and so is the case with you.
But the fact is you will not remain the same, you will offcorse shout on the docter saying he is a criminal.Isn't it? The reason being obvious as that kid is yours. The same is the case here unless you dont feel others pain as yours, you can never undestand what other's are going through.Wrong is wrong whther in india or abraod. you just cannot say wrong is not wrong because some one else is wrong.I don't know why you have posted this blog just to see all these replys or you really wanted to convey any message.I just pray for you that nothing of this sort happens to you or your family...........
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rahul sharma says: June 08, 2009 at 02:31 PM IST
Mr suraiya
you have said what i have been saying to my friends and parents for a long time although i am only in my thirties,but it doesnt take a microscope to see the widespread racism in our country towards indians and especially non indians.
as for our friends caught up in austalia they should toughene up a litle bit and stop looking like victims all the time.
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H mat says: June 08, 2009 at 02:32 PM IST
Hi Jug
We came to Australia 20 years ago. I got migration so I came here with my family. we got very good treatment by the people living here-ausi, swiss, german, scotts etc etc.We are good friends with all the people around here, they may be India or Gore.
In India you may call it a caste but it is still racial. people avoid it to say caste is the integral system of the country but it does divide the country and it is racial. Look at Maharashtrians beating up Bihari's.We are REAl hypocrates. The majority of students over here are NOT to study but to get PR and live a life,they can not dream in India. They can not get admission in Indian unis and colleges due to their abilities and languages as well.
They do not like to get along with the locals. Shame on them. This is due to illigal practice by bank mamgers to give them LETTEr dictating the loan to study. Actually there is no loan.
Australian authorities should be more strict and more firm in accepting ANY student.
These happenings are due to soft targets and not beacuse of racial.
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Hardik says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
It is true that we have some stereo-typed mindset about beauty in India and many of us generally prefer fairness of skin than darkness when it comes to choosing a life partner, but this is totally different from attacking people and robbing or killing them because of the origin of them.
The Indian students will be perfectly happy if they are not chosen by the Aussi girls because of their skin color, but at least there should not be any atrocities because of this.
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Tarun Lalwani says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
This article is typical rant of the uneducated. The author himself has stated that the prejudice that we have in India is based on color and hence not racism. Can you call a social group's fondness of a particular trait of the human body as racism. If so, then the absence of overwieght ramp models also falls under racism. More importantly, as one blogger points out, Do we impart skull bashing on our darker citizens?
Sorry, but the authors thoughts, although correct, are misplaced in the context of racism.
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Hanif Mohammed says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
We would be fooling ourselves, if we say, we are not racist. Racisim happens at all levels of society. Apart from white vs black, its also happens when you are in a minority situation. Having travelled widely around the world, I have noticed that, situation is much better off, where foreigners amalmagate into mainstream, and accept the prevailing way of life. Racisim happens whenever, in such situations, you or the group stay aloof from the locals, and thereafter reflect our own culture, in not so acceptable manner. We should try to assimiliate with the locals, and reflect that we are also part of them, contributing to the welfare of that country, rather than demonstrating how patriotic we are towards our own country (there is no harm in being patriotic, but when you leave for other shores, be considerate and respect the local people, to gain their respect and acceptance). We should always think, how we would react, if some foreigners come to our land, and try to impose upon us their lifestyle and culture !! Be rational when you are in a foreign land, and try to earn their respect, by showing them that we part of them !! That would work like magic, and tranquality will prevail.
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MumbaiDude says: June 08, 2009 at 02:38 PM IST
Well said, Jug. We, Indians, are possibly the biggest racists on the planet. It's just that our definition of racism is slightly skewed...just look at some of the previously posted comments: Some of them define what is "internal" and "external."
Racism doesn't just refer to migrants being beaten up by locals. It has manifested the mindsets of all people in various forms. We're probably the pioneers who introduced employment on the basis of racism - the varna system.
What do you think we would do if a substantial amount of jobs in India were taken away by Kenyans?...If most of Indian firms' business operations were outsourced to the Philippines?...If our colleges were teeming with Arab students?...
I'm not justifying what the Australians are doing. I'm enraged over the recent happenings on our fellow brethren. But it's high time we took off this mask of hypocrisy.
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Sundaram Ramaswamy says: June 08, 2009 at 02:39 PM IST
This article is insensitive to the plight of people suffering racism in foreign shores to say the least.
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Raghu says: June 08, 2009 at 02:40 PM IST
Hi I have not read the article, as i am tired of reading article saying we are more racist or they are more racist? I have got a question , What is happening in australia should we let it happen bcus we are also racist or try to stop it? Indian students raised an issue about being targetted in australia and asked for help? Did your blog provide any help .. No you blog suggests Indians are bigger racist so does that mean we are not allowed to raise a concern? students dont get protection from cops and if racism is a mean to get protection then so be it.
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Pratap says: June 08, 2009 at 02:40 PM IST
the great old indian past time of always pointing fingers ourselves, always seeing faults in our deeds. we are wrong hence bad things happened to us, its all karma. well its all bull my dear frnd and coz of this attitude of the generations gone by we are a third world country and are getting slapped around. you know why? coz of generations like yours, blaming it all on karma and some hogwash fault in ourselves rather then getting to the task. you sicken me
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Narasimha R G says: June 08, 2009 at 02:46 PM IST
This is shame of us as our governments are not providing good education and oppertunities to live in India.People are going to abroad as we don't have enough things to do here.Now this situation is only in Austrelia,if they do the same thing in all other countries like US,.. what is position of indians who are staying in aborad....
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Raghu Varma says: June 08, 2009 at 02:47 PM IST
Indians are undergoing a very bad phase in Australia and this should be condemned in all forms and fought with all might possible.
Mr. Jug Suraiya,
I read your article with lot of interest as this reflects the ugly Indianness.
Moving from state to state within India is even more painful than moving to foreign soils. Most of the world is divided mainly on Colour, economic status and religion. But in India we can see segregation of people in many ways starting with mother tongue/dialect, region, religion, caste, complexion, economic status.
It is a fact that Indians perform well in other countries and this is due to another fact that we Indians are limited and the dirty politics are minimised.This will not remain for long as our numbers are increasing there as well.Even now in places like middle east we see 'Mallu Mafia', Tamil Mafia', 'Marathi Mafia', 'Gujju Mafia', to name a few and these feelings control chances of getting a job, promotion, increment.We are bringing India to foreign lands.
All said and done we should decline to act in any form of discrimination be it race, religion, caste or creed. Only then we have the moral right to fight against only one form of discrimination and that is 'RACE'.
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Amit Iyer says: June 08, 2009 at 02:48 PM IST
Fantastic article!!!! Though this does not justify things happening in Australia. I think we need to take strong measures through diplomatic channels against the Oz...at the same time, we need to sort our own problems...our african friends are called " Kaalia" when they come to our country....the problem with us is that we want to be treated on par with a white guy but we will never do the same to a black guy.we are obsessed with white skin...We need to change ourselves before pointing fingers at some other country
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Vikas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:48 PM IST
I think the author is clearly mixing up two different issues here. What is happening in Australia is not synonymous with our caste system or regional based discrimination. Reason is India is a secular nation and when people from all religion, region, culture live together in 1.2 billion population there is bound to have some friction which originates from different values of peoples life and perception. What is happening in Australia is a brutal act where the intention is to directly hurt/kill someone just because that person is of some other nationality. So pls dont confuse these two things.
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Sunil G Desai says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
I think what you mean to say is that if we are not racial then only we can protest the racial people, right?
Then we have so many cases of rapes in our country that means if any group of Indian Women are raped abroad then we have to keep quite right?
Mr. Jug Saraiya I think you are still a grown up child!! Your arguments are all based on the absurd way to look at the things!! Because of these type of weird arguments the world is suffering from the hatred and violence.
May GOD bless you
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Rivka Mishra says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
I think Mr Suraiya conflates several issues. There is an element of racism in Indian society, but I think it is a mistake to think that it is widespread. Black people from Africa are not ill-treated or subjected to violence. There are many students from African countries in India, and if they had been victims of violence, I think we would have heard of it.
The other point is that I think we underestimate the influence of colonialism in shaping our view of Africans and other cultures. In colonial discourse Africa was the Dark Continent. When we examine the origin of some of our views, we may find that not every prejudice is rooted in our own culture.
As for having names for each linguistic group, I hardly think is a kind of prejudice. In most countries there are jokes about people from a particular part of the country. People don't take offence at things like that.
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sz says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
i absolutely agree with the author.. i agree the aussies have been racist be we r the ones who r much worse off for all these centuries and waitin for the smallest thing to hype ourselves up.. we indians find great pride in being victims and being sympathised and then causing a halla bout it
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kiran kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
firstly, thats an eye opener article on ground reality in our country, on our people mindset, on our way of thinking. its absolutely true what you say and its happening day in day out around us.
what a shame and pity that we point a finger at others and forget that 3 fingers point back to us(i.e check yourself before you accuse some one out there).
we discriminate our fellow indians based on the state(religion,caste,region,color of their skin,status in society,and what not. and how many incidents have we not seen or heard in our country where in FOREIGNERS have been targeted attacked, physically abused, raped, robbed Just because they are outsides(GORRAS)and what not.
i know many of our fellow indians who have given coments above for your blog DISAGREEING with you and absolutely furous aganist you for such coments dont agree what you say,cos the problem with most of our indians is they dont want to accept the ground reality and want to cover up and paint colorful that we are not racists ourselfs,and they are not broad minded or intellectuals to accept the fact that we are racists ourselfs, and if you see most of those who have given comments againist your views cant even justify or defend their views for they know what you said is very much true.
and to all those immmature indians i like to throw some light that , if ALL the EUROPEANS/AMERICANS have been racists we would not have in first place been allowed to come to their country, given opportunity to work and make a good living in their country.how many of you dont ahve family members/relatives living/settled ABROAD and living luxurious life out there??? and if they ALL are really racists, and if they have not OUTSOURCED jobs to our country, what would have been our fate?situation???????we take they jobs, we live in their country, we want their salary, we want they comforts,A-Z of their products and what not ,we sit on all these and still try to point finger at them.shame on us all.
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Navin says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
Though u have projected a true picture of things happening this our nation,...its slightly irrelevant. I say this, cause we need to extend our arm to our country-men suffering abroad, then we can talk our problems out. Its like one family at home, am sure u have fights and quarrels, but when theres a third party involved issue, you fight for your family...its that way. Perception now, should be lets unite and voice it out loud and clear to Australian miscreants.
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Varun Gandhi says: June 08, 2009 at 02:51 PM IST
I don't care what shilpa shetty n other shows have showen to us. Come to UK and face racisim by your own. Here only daily basis 1-2 Indian people are been targeted by black/while people. You are saying this on your logic. If you want to feel it, come to London and I am 100% I will prove you wrong.
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Abhirup says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
i totally agree with Jug.I living in Australia want to share this fact that this country is not racist. The attacks on us, Indian students were done by second generation immigrants like some Asians,Africans and ofcourse some migrant Australians. So dont say that Indians are getting physically assaulted because of the prevailing racism.
On the other hand u hypocrates will disregard whatever thats going on in our own country. The MNS of Maharashtra beating up people coming from North India, Christians monks being beaten and killed in Orissa, demolition of mosques and killing of people in Gujarat are definitely not heinous acts...infact the incident of some Indian students getting beaten up by a few irresponsible thugs and good for nothings give u'll an opportunity to point fingers at other countries and labelling them as racists.
I want to ask a question those students who have come to Australia to study...Why did you come here??? because the entrance exams are too tough to crack in India to get admission in Indian universities or u r not a SC/ST/OBC or u know that u cant do anything worthwhile if u stay in India. So u've come to Australia after spending lakhs of rupees to study stupid courses like community welfare, commercial cookery, nursing, etc or just manage to get ur PR and drive cabs for the rest of ur rich pathetic lives.
Ask urselves, have u'll not been victims of discrimination in India because either u r not a lower caste or u cant get a proper govt job because of stupid office politics?
I know i'm sounding harsh but this is a fact...We Indians are the biggest racists and there have been n number of incidents in India to prove this fact. So first plz change urselves and then point fingers at others. To begin this plz stop howling in Punjabi, Hindi, Gujrati, etc in buses and trains in Australia.
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Stephen George says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
One has to judge the time that he /she is writing an article. The matter calls for a deep thought and insight.
You maybe right is saying that we are more racist than the Ausies but that needs to be said at a time later. At the moment you need to have articles all around supporting the Indians in their fight. Showcase what you can to make the Government react to the atrocities of the Asusies in a diplomatic way.Generate an interest in the mind of the readers to make them react at first to the current situation and then- when things have cooled down, start another articles - now pinpoint the mentality of the Indians as general- that they are the biggest racists!!
We all understand that you are a permanent writer and such you could use the same base later on for this.
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JESWIN says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
I for once totally agree with Mr.Jug Suraiya here! All Indians at one point or the other are racist in their outlook and like he says to 'once own compatriots'. Get thinking Guys!
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john s says: June 08, 2009 at 02:58 PM IST
Your views about our own racism is absolutely correct but what is happenings in Australia against our people is unjust, racially motivated and we should protest against it.
I am live and works in the UAE, a melting pot of over 100 nationalities but the majority is Indian. One should thank the UAE nationals for their tolerance level of different nationalities; they have absolutely no problem towards colour of skin. Where as, in my office I am seeing and hearing derogatory comments, mostly in Hindi/other Indian languages (so the other nationalities could not grasp what they say) towards people from other nationalities. Those people who proclaim Aryan heritage among Indians will not spare even our brown or black skinned people from other Indian states.
My Caucasian office colleagues show high level of tolerance towards black/brown skinned people than people from India and the racial slur among Indians are common in offices/businesses in the UAE.
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Paul Handa says: June 08, 2009 at 03:01 PM IST
It is easy to write a column chastising others about the sick aspects of color and caste based discrimination. The writer should also demonstrate that his/her family setting is examplary.It is too much hot air. Indians are bound by traditions and it will take 100 plus years to break the cycle of color bias.Centuries ago, an Avatar Krishna was born. His color is shown to be dark in order to bring about equality. His teaching failed miserably. Only way to eradicate class/caste/gender/race discrimination is to have prosperity economically. US and Canada experience seems to support this argument. Furthermore, we have to chisle away all those social barriers by setting up examples rather than posturing.
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Milind says: June 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM IST
Hi,
Sorry to say but I bet neither you nor your keens/relatives caught in such a hatred/racism scene.....
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subhash vaid says: June 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM IST
what r u talking?
how u can justify what is happening in australia.
u mean to say even if some one is doing wrong,
as a human being we should not try to correct it.
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girish says: June 08, 2009 at 03:05 PM IST
Hidden racist attitude invokes racism in other equals. This what must have happened.
We must clean ourselves first, before calling somebody dirty. Otherwise they will see dirt on ourselves and behave accordingly.
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Mahima Pandey says: June 08, 2009 at 03:06 PM IST
I 100% agree with what you say. It's not that I do not feel bad about Indian Students being beaten up. We are raising so much hue & cry over this incident. When North Indians were beated up in Maharashtra did anyone or the Govt do anything about it. I lived in Mumbai for 24 years but have always whether in School, College or at work been targetted as a bhaiya!!! Is'nt that racism. Now thankfully my whole family has moved out of
Mumbai and for the last 5years have been living in a Hindi speaking state , where we feel more at home. I have come across many Maharashtrians in Bhilai and Delhi but have never heard or seen them complain that they are targetted as ghaatis nor north Indian haters.There are people saying stop writing about what is happening in India...why???? it's because truth hurts. And yes this is the truth. India is racist. I am a brahmin, my sister is married to a muslim. I have seen how some of my relatives react towards my bro-in-law or refer to muslims as 'katlu" is'nt that derogatory. The tamilians are the biggest haters of Hindi speaking people. The catholics in India are also targetted as 'pav walas" People mock the biharis. I hve many friends who are from the north east. they are often treated as foreigners. Majority of Indian as petty minded. Yeh I have faced racism in UK. But the govt does take action against the people who indulge in such acts.I have seen such people loosing their jobs if they indulge in racist acts or pass such remarks.Indian govt does nothing. Are we not racist as branding Sonia Gandhi as a foreigner?? There were so many Indians, top celebrities like Amitabh who reacted when the slums of Mumbai were shown in Slum Dog. Has India done anything about it??? It does hurt when someone brings out in the open to the world your weaknesses.Have these so called rich of India done anything for the poor.Come on Indians Grow Up...It's high time change your attitude then point fingers at the world.If you can't do this then kJUST SHUT UP.
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Abraham says: June 08, 2009 at 03:07 PM IST
I fully agree with views expressed by Jug. Instead of looking inward, we have blown this issue to a international one. Look how we treat our own Biharis in the western India or Southerners in North.The whole society is divided over caste and still we are crying from rooftops of happenings in OZ. All the national papers are giving front page news stories of some isolated incidents created by some miscreants. But we put under carpets when incidents of higher magnitude occur within our country
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sandeep says: June 08, 2009 at 03:12 PM IST
the writer is absolutely right.
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Rajat Dua says: June 08, 2009 at 03:12 PM IST
I don't think you could have put it better!!! I luv the last line.
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Ananya says: June 08, 2009 at 03:13 PM IST
Very well put. I am an Indian student in Australia and I think the way Indian media (traditional & new-media) have whipped up the frenzy (by front page splashes, multimedia slideshows, celebs expressing solidarity (which one now?)) is not just ridiculous but also dangerous. A criminal act is a criminal act, whether it is race based or opportunistic doesn't really matter. Would we have been happier if all the 'stated' attacks on Indians were plain muggings with no racial slurs involved? And to that end, the Indian government has been balanced and fair in asking the Australian government to ensure greater safety and law and order. But irresponsible sensationalist media coverage aimed at fanning fear and public anger can be very dangerous to us Indians living here as well as Australians in India.
Before pointing fingers and screaming racism let us ask ourselves a few questions:
- Are foreigners safe in India? How many foreigners have been raped/mugged/killed/kidnapped/ or plain fleeced?
- Like Jug's article says are we Indians above discrimination? Not just caste and colour, we even discriminate against sex. As a resident of Delhi working in Gurgaon there are innumerable times ive been spoken indecently to, sexual slurs, signals et al...why don't we print banners and take out rallies to end sexual discrimination first before complaining about racism
- Why didn't india take kindly to being pointed at the fact that caste-ism is akin to racism at the Durban Review Conference this year?
I am not taking sides with India or Australia here, just reminding all of us to see sense and reason before reacting with dangerous frenzy.
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Ajmal Meethal says: June 08, 2009 at 03:13 PM IST
The racist attacks on Indians in Australia is deplorable and should be condenmed. It is appalling to observe that the attacks are on the rise and is spiralling out of control. Having said that, we can run but never hide from the fact that we have enemies within and the fight against racism should start from within.
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Saps says: June 08, 2009 at 03:17 PM IST
Dear Jug,
I do agree with you on this. While it's true that we are a country with hugely diverse cultures, it does not give us an excuse to treat our own countrymen badly. Some of the comments have totally lost the point- even if other countries are rascist towards Indians at some point or the other- they have a valid excuse, we are going there and robbing them of their jobs and also some of us are upto no good. Some of us flout all the rules they have put in place and go about doing whatever nonsense we do in India. They do have a valid excuse (sometimes).
BUT what reason or excuse do WE have to treat our OWN countrymen like we do???? 98% of Indians will agree that we are prejudiced and rascist to some extent- the other 2% are LIARS!
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ram says: June 08, 2009 at 03:18 PM IST
Indians are getting beaten up in INDIA itself,,first stop the nonsense in our country,,,ofcourse this is a serious issue,,govt shud take care of it with highest priority,,,,same time this shud be stopped with in INDIA also,,,,treat humans as humans,,,,we all are equal,,,,no one has the superior power to dominate others,,,,,,,
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mona says: June 08, 2009 at 03:20 PM IST
jug has not mentioned the discrimination that sikhs face in their everyday lives; there is hardly any missed occasion where people try to flaunt their gutter sense of humour by quoting inane crude anti-sikh jokes..
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vishal says: June 08, 2009 at 03:20 PM IST
In India we have an Italian origin person, gestionning our country. So are we so racist, wehave embrace all cultures, are we so intolerant.
Australian episodes have shown the world how these forward tag society are becoming less and less tolerant toward different kind of people.
The economical turndown is showing the real colour of these hypocrit and so called liberal society.
Don't mess up with who is better and who's worst and try to criminalise what is bad.
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RJ says: June 08, 2009 at 03:21 PM IST
Request you to use your powers judiciously, it was a totally out of context rational and certainly a very mistimed one, No wonder you used 'racist' and 'Aussies' to sell this article.
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chacha says: June 08, 2009 at 03:21 PM IST
WHAT WE SEE IN AUS IS PHYSICAL VIOLENCE NOT MERE TAUNTS.
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Vinod says: June 08, 2009 at 03:28 PM IST
Sir
It was an excellent observation and loved reading it.We are the role models for all the racists in the world and the racist acts we dish out to our country men are far more despicable than we see in Oz.They are at least tryng to investigate.Here it is part of life.
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pranav mehrotra says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
It is not only people of India this is our governemnt also which divide the society based on the caste / religiuos. I think if tried apply for governemnt job or any public service exam.. there multiple columns (i think more than space avaiable for your name) for which caste you belong.. either SC/ST OBC etc .. then sub caste. Not only caste ,religion also .. see the news papers percentage wise vote distribution graph based on religion ..
This racism problem is based on the social status in india all white or fair people are considered as rich because they have money to buy good fairness creams and live in air conditioners etc.
We baised based on money and more over our governemnet is helping us to treat different caste/ religion differently.
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BhaveshP says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
Dear Mr Jug,
@For those who disagrees: This blog is not to justify the actions but to put forward the Hypocrisy that we portray
@Sanjib Kumar Biswas : Excellent examples of Hypocrisy
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Neha says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
Well...the article is an appropriate one, in terming as racists.. India being a diverse country has its own challenges and reasons for such behavoiur, but the only thing that i disagree here is the fact that the happenings like described cannot be equlised to what happened in Australia, the reason it is being highlighted inthe media is also the fact that the authorities are not doing anything about the issue. Beating, Killing Hitting doesnot happen in India, the challenge here is more of that of a mental one than a Physical abuse of the person.
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Vivek says: June 08, 2009 at 03:31 PM IST
Even if we accept the fact that we Indians are racist, it does not dilute the crimes committed against Indians in Australia or anywhere in the world, on the basis of our nationality. Pointing fingers at ourselves is not going to solve the problem in Australia.
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babuds says: June 08, 2009 at 03:31 PM IST
Racist slur, even in jest, like chinky, darkie or madrasi is one thing. Bashing the brains out or carving the body with a knife, based on one's color is entirely different, . These two are entirely different and hence neither equatable nor comparable. What a stupid article.
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ashutosh says: June 08, 2009 at 03:32 PM IST
Completely agreed..go to any part of India..Indian are racist most...My self faced when i was in uttranchal state . they call outside people DESI..and treat them in worst possible way...So my fellow indian learn first..
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 03:33 PM IST
Really is a shame the poor understanding that people have in this country. I am foreigner, just make a test, go with a foreigner to places like Haridwar- Rishikesh, and you will see, what a discrimination we the foreginers suffer. They dont allow foreigner people in their ashrams, they separate foreigners form indians, because they say that we are impure ( VIDESI) while indians proclaim to be pure ( DESI) ... In the west we live and work alltoghether without separating foereigners from local. Everybody cvomes to west, indians, africans, chinese, thai...and have the same rights, and we help other contries as well, giving help to the poor in the 3rd world countries... If ppl behave discriminate as it happens in India, in Europe you can go to the jail. This is bakcward in this society. Need to learn the good things from the west to get humanity. no discriminate. That is missing in this country, NO HUMANITY. After all, we are jivas, same at the eyes of God. Florencia, Italy.
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jigmet wangchuk says: June 08, 2009 at 03:33 PM IST
It is not just cast that divides india,unfortunately its also race, i am from ladakh and have been staying in new delhi for quite a while, can't remember how many times people have called me or my friends "chinky" or chow-chow or whatever. It is unlikely that i'll ever think of indians as my brothers because its hard to picture, they dont even recognise that we are from thier own country, eventhough i'll be more patriotic than the same guy calling me names, but the truth is hard to gulp down, its not a case with just me and my friends or community, people from the north east also suffer, well they suffer the most infact. i would like to type more or discuss more but i think its useless unless people of india gain some wisdom and manners by the grace of gods.
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sangu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:34 PM IST
WELLDON JUG, YOU HAVE EXPOSED THE TRUTH WITH SIMPLE WORDS.NOT EVERYONE HAS THE CAPACITY TO INTROSPECT AND COURAGE TO ACCEPT TRUTH AND THOSE WHO HAVE WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT YOU ON THIS ISSUE.
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nb says: June 08, 2009 at 03:34 PM IST
Father of modern Indian racism is British. As we all know old Indian society was subdivided according to their work(karma) and not religion or skin color.During British rule subdivision of Indian society was used to develop racial discrimination. After independence British has gone but our high societies people and politicians still cant come out of British influence.
I think author has forgot that Lord Krishna was also shyam(near to black) color and have a very high position in society that time and still now.
If somebody praise beauty that cant be racism .People are of different color and shape that doesn't mean that if I like slim figure or white color then I am racist .
I think Indian people in general are of very open heart and they will never do this kind of uncivilized act as done by Australians.
In every aspect of life whether it is sports or culture Australians behavior are always racist.
In this time we should stand united and protest Aussies rather then pointing the finger on us .
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Welkin says: June 08, 2009 at 03:38 PM IST
Mr. Jungli Bander you am sure are a type of person who can only talk and not practically do anything. a dog who barks but can never bite. why not go to australia see the situation and try to rewrite the same thing. if we are racist we dont invite people to our houses and then beat them. we simply tell them you are not allowed. if you can understand the difference you would be glad you learnt something, if no you can continue the bullshit. Thanks to Times of India to give me a chance to try to make a difference.
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INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 03:39 PM IST
Looks like the racial attack in Australia is the gods way to remind all Indians what the Tamils are going through in Srilanka. Compared to what they are going through in Srilanka the racial attacks in Ausralia is only a tea party.
However Indians have a long history of racism which can put all other racism to shade. Indian racism has every thing to do with the Aryan Dravidian divide very cleverly weaved in to the social fabric through various castes.
Look how it has become the accepted norm to coexist inspite of the caste divide. Our clever Aryan ancestors have perfected the art of racism to remain superior for ever. Now who ever hasn't shed this attitude still feel rather threatened if this divide is questioned.
If one goes to the Down under and takes a statistics it wont be a wonder to find the majority of the Indians who have migrated to Australia would be from these upper castes who by virtue of their superiority in India have had the chance to get the oppurtunity to migrate to that country and now facing the wrath of much more superior race! This is an oppurtunity to all Indians to contemplate and clean up the racist mess within India and take lesson from US.
All my sympathies to those Indians who are facing racism in Australia.
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Sanjib Kumar Biswas says: June 08, 2009 at 03:40 PM IST
Dear Jug Suraiya,
I admire your points on racism. Specially the point of African people who is having taste of Delhi campus. I am working in Africa since past three years and I can see how our Indian friends are treating with these African Citizen. Our Indian fellow treat these people as slave. And when any African people is on their head, Indian people try to be their friend. They try to butter them so save themselves. Today if our countryman facing this in Australia, is just coz of our deeds. Its really a matter of fact that, Only Indians among the Asian people are targetted with racism.
I have seen so many cases like this. If anybody comes from Amerian / Europian counties in india to work with us, we treat them as our boss and they also enjoy it. I have seen my engineer friends to carry their shoes and bags.. lol. But its ture. The reason is we feel that they will recommend us as good chap. And the same when we visit these continents American/ Europian/ Australian. And the same people when visit to African continent they become boss..lol.
@ NorBlackNorWhite,
Dear, we donn beat any foreigner from any African countries, but we avoid them from our group. And the reason why donn beat then is WE CAN'T. We afraid of LAWs..
@ Ram,
theres nothing to feel shame for mr. Jug. He just wrote his blog. And you can't deny to agree on his points. If you speak of coming to US/UK/Aus, u can see my comment on Indian people visiting those countries.
@ Avijit,
Nobody is putting any garbage here in media. You are blamming govt for this. its very easy to finger anybody, but think about the the brain darin. There are lots of MBA colleges in India, even then you moved to UK. During moving to UK, have you ever had any meeting with any govt to support you? No. But u seek help from them, when you are in danger. Don't think what govt did for you, think what u did for India.
We are really sorry for whats happening in Australia. And out govt is even working on it.
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Welkin says: June 08, 2009 at 03:42 PM IST
Wow the concept explained here is great. what mr bandi means is if we can eat fish chiken cow or pig, even these animals should be allowed to eat human being,because they are doing what we do to them so its ok. can 2 wrongs makes a right
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sendilvelan says: June 08, 2009 at 03:44 PM IST
in mumbai north indians are not alowed to work why we people cry for indian in oz. first we have to change ourself
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Chris D'Souza says: June 08, 2009 at 03:46 PM IST
I agree with Jug.
I have lived most of my life in India and just the last few years in Melbourne, Australia.
I have encountered more racism in India than I have in Melbourne. Melbourne has had a Chinese mayor for years. Indians in Melbourne are treated with respect.
The attack on Austrlians by the Indian media is disgusting. 99% of Australians (which term includes those of Greek, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Sri Lankan, Middle eastern, African origin) are fantastic people who would condemn racism without any hesitation.
Why do we condemn an entire nation and burn the effigy of the Prime Minister for the actions of a few - no matter how deplorable?
The violence against our Indian students is deplorable but I wish India would treat the issue with dignity and grace - without resorting to hysteria. Solutions can be found without whipping up a frenzy and branding an entire nation for the sins of a few.
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anjali says: June 08, 2009 at 03:46 PM IST
this is very bad jug...u should never be supporting things like this...racism.....bad bad bad
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amritansu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:47 PM IST
Its perfect. We Indians are the somehow the worst racist. We divide ourselves on the basis of language, city of origin, caste, creed, religion.
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jack says: June 08, 2009 at 03:47 PM IST
yes i fully agree with you. we indians are hypocrites. i am a south indian living in delhi. i know of so many people who talk ill of the madrasis the biharisthe chinkies etc ... the africans who study here are mocked at and spoken ill of. i had been to the US also where i found the people much more decent and respectful of others. most of our people are petty minded. no doubt.
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Rr(UK) says: June 08, 2009 at 03:50 PM IST
Today(08/06/09) i read another news on Times of India - Kamal Jit ,an Indian attacked at 1:30am in Melbourne.
Travelling at odd hours is not advisable even in India,why do you have to do that in a foreign country?. The attack could be also for money & possessions!.
I think we Indians are going high here. We have our own racial issues - Caste,religion,community.name it anything.
For God's sake, 1:30am in Delhi is even worse!(Considered most dangerous place in the world according to a poll.
Def, not supporting such attacks but we got to be practical and sensible when living away from our roots.
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Mouli says: June 08, 2009 at 03:51 PM IST
Till the time people believe in Aryan Invasion Theory (which British predominantly used to implement their Divide & Rule policy), even God can't save us.
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 03:54 PM IST
Even when we the foreigners try to do some charitable work, we face obstacles. many contradictions in this society, when the ruler is Videsi!?, we deserve human rights, as indian in the western contries, also security, and stop the corruption.
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Tushar says: June 08, 2009 at 03:54 PM IST
Mr. Jug
well do you really know what's racism all about?? I don't think so, i think you are a bit confused about racism and regionism. I have travelled a lot in Europe and i travel a lot there. Europians are racist and day by day it's increasing. You can see the result of Europian elections now a days. Thay think that they are very inteligent and have invented everything other then europians no nothing and doesn't worth anything. That's racism. As for as India is concerned we have problem of regions but that's very natural as it's a huge country with different languages and different races. But we still sit together eat together. We have given so many names but we don't beat people on the road just becuase they have different colour, culture, and relegion.
I am doing reaserach in history, politics and relegion more 20 years. And i can tell you indians are the only population didn't have and don't have still racism problem.
As for as the aryans and dravidians are concerned so my dear we don't have any prouf of battles amongs them for racism.
All invented by historians (britishers, franch and germans) as they were racist so for them it was a war for colour but we don't have any archelogy or history evidence as such.
But unfortunately people like you who doesn't have even knowldege of history write this kind of articles. Just copying the what we got in legacy from europians.
I travelled a lot in India from North to south and yes we have problems of language mainly to communicate between us that's the biggest barrier we have and this duo to our politicians after indipendence to get votes. But we people as such have big problems.
Next time before writing an article like this go and meet people in India and study well our history.
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INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 03:58 PM IST
INDIA IS A COUNTRY WHICH WORSHIPS WHITE.IF YOU WANT PROOF LOOK IN TO THE MATRIMONIAL COLUMNS. ONLY FAIR GROOMS / BRIDE GROOMS PREFERED. ALL BLACK LOOKING INDIANS/ NEGROES , AND FLAT NOSED MONGOLIAN RACE PEOPLE ARE BRUSHED ASIDE LIKE SOME UNTOUCHABLES.
THE RACISM IS IMMORTALISED IN ALL OUR VEDIC AND MYTHOLOGICAL TEXTS BY COLOURING ALL NEGATIVE CHARACTERS IN BLACK AND UGLY LOOKING BY THERE STANDARDS. THIS HAS CREPT IN TO THE LATEST COMICS TOO. JUST SEE COMIC SERIAL "BHEEM" . THE NEGATIVE CHARACTER IS NOT ONLY COLOURED BLACK BUT HIS NAME ITSELF IS KALIA. WE NEED TO CLEAN UP OUR PSYCHE FIRST BEFORE POINTING FINGERS AT AUSTRALIA!
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RK says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
Wake up to reality.
When you are in Rome,you can only be like a Roman but cannot be a Roman.
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ashu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
Hatred in all forms should be condemned.But Will somebody tell me what is the difference between the attack on Indian Students in Australia and the very same even more violent attacks on the persons from UP and Bihar in Mumbai ???
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goo says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
ok
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VJ says: June 08, 2009 at 04:00 PM IST
Absolutely true ....
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Mike says: June 08, 2009 at 04:01 PM IST
This topic can be discussed on only papers. If we are not happy here we should get united and should not support it. Why are we working for them. Must thing is most of the Australians are unaware of Indian hospitality, culture and other systems and think like other poor countries in the word. UK, USA, Canada know much about indian and that is why they respect us. Indians are capable of turning things other way and that is what the episode is all about. We are hard working, we have brain and the most important thing is we wish to see dream and want the best possible life.
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sadananda says: June 08, 2009 at 04:04 PM IST
Misleading Article
The core issue is Whether the attack on Indians on OZ soil is justifiable?? What are the solutions? Where went wrong? Whether Indians are not following the LAW of the Land?? What made government of OZ become insensitive of these issues are to be discussed.
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MAKARAND says: June 08, 2009 at 04:05 PM IST
VERY WELL WRITTEN AND BEING FRANK WE ARE RACIST IN ARE DAILY LIFE
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Ajit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:05 PM IST
Joy, you are certainly a die-hard castiest. May be you should try to make Australia your home.
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Srini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:06 PM IST
So absolutely true.Being a black(why call it dark?)South Indian in a Pune school, oh was I continously ragged everyday throughout the years. Made me a sick and depressed kid who couldn't do anything right.As kids and teenagers do, thought that black was automatically ugly. Indians are absolutely racist.Even now OBC's bemoan the fact that twenty years ago in small towns , scheduled castes never sat down in the same area in a tea stall but on the ground. If that's not racism, what is? So identifying slights is easy for people who give and take slights like these everyday.
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joel haokip says: June 08, 2009 at 04:08 PM IST
I completely agree with this write-up! I had witness lots of discrimination almost in all spheres in India. For Instance, during the last T20 world cup match between Pakistan and India, Muslims were taunted as if they were Pakistanis and even some create communal passions inside the hall where we had watch the play. In Mainland India, North-easterners are discriminated and teased them by calling ‘Chinky’and the same happens for mainland Indians in the North-east by calling them ‘Mayang’, ‘kolvom’ or ‘Vais’ meaning ‘outsiders’ or ‘hairy people’. If being an Indian and we cannot view each other as the same, do you expect for a fair treatment in outside India? A mere geographical Integrity without emotional integrity would be meaningless and it is time to learn a lesson from at least what is happening in the present in OZ.
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Aditya says: June 08, 2009 at 04:08 PM IST
As far as what I have observed, in India we have racism within Indians only, we don't beat or abuse students/professionals who come from other countries(Aus or US..) rather we respect them and treat them more than anything else. Then why is it happening with Indians only. When we treat foreigners with respect why can't they behave in same manner. Previously there was incident of France Airlines, and now this. Internally we treat Maharashtrians, Biharis, Tamils in different manner but this our internal matter, don't forget these countries took 100+years to overcome internal racism, please give some time to India too. If this would have been done in India with some Aus, would then Aus government have reacted in same manner? Indian government is unable force anybody to improve the situation It is veryyyyyy weak. Coward
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Praveen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Mr. Suraiya maybe correct is saying that we Indians are racists. But then he needs to substantiate it with specific claims, which he does not do. He should also notice that there is a subtle difference between being ignorant and conciously harming someone because of their colour, or other recognizable chracteristics. Using "names" for others without thought of consequences is mostly due to ignorance. It has nothing to do with racism. He mentions about ads for partners. In those advertisements people state their preferences. The same way one may purchase a red, gren, or yellow car. The same argument applies for beauty creams. It is a question of preferences and has nothing to do with "racism." The other question is why we have these preferences? This is a deeper question. He also mentions about the caste system. It exists to varying degrees all over the world, not just in India. Should it be abolished, yes, but again it has nothing to do with racism. Regarding stereotypes, yes, Chinese do eat gods and snakes. The same was Indian eat LOTS OF RICE. Humans, have a natural tendency to classify, i.e., dark, brown, white, pale, or tall, short, heavy, etc. One should not confuse this with racism. Racism is a concious act where one causes harm to another based on their profile. Mr. Suraiya needs to understand these subtle differences before making claims. As they say, "The more we know, the more we know the less we know." The opposite applies here, "The less we know, the more we think we know."
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Amit Madan says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Well, this is true and I would like to higlight another point here, which I dint see in any comments I browsed through quickly, is that when UPs and Biharis are beaten in Mumbai what do we call it racism / castism / regionalism? Well, In india itself we beat people belonging to other region so why to hue and cry about Australians. I am not defending the Aus behaviour but just trying to make a point that we ourselves also need to be changed before we try to change others.
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Vj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Well...I do understand what Jug has to say...and I think he has a valid point! I have been living in Sydney for the past 5years and let me tell u Sydney is a beautiful place...Most of my friends here are Aussie and they are gorgeous people...I have never had any issues with them...I shall tell u why, I believe in the simple saying " When in Rome, behave as Romans". If you live the way you live in your own country and expect people to accept u..well ur mistaken!!!If u try to bend the rules and act like a wannabe just because ur in a foreign land and u think ur too cool...well then ur the biggest fool!!!!Iam not justifying what is happening in Melbourne...it is completely wrong, there is no excuse for physical violence,but i dont think its anything to do with racism!!!every community in every country are attacked...whether its India,Australia,Uk or USA..Every country has few anti- social elements who spoil the peace of the society...but that doesnt make u generalise and say Australian is a racist country and the Australian govts does nothing to protect the Indians...Well u tell me how which govt in any country can protect each and every area and suburb of the nation?And now i feel, becos of these absolutely stupid rallys in Melbourne and Sydney...these foolish protesters are agitating people who are not even aware of the racism issue...Please stop this and leave it upto the government...Voice ur thoughts...but in the right way!!!!!!VJ,Sydney
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Freddy says: June 08, 2009 at 04:10 PM IST
TOI comes up with blogs which usually gives us the feeling that a blog is an unrefined, rough patch up work when compared to professional editorial material.
But I have to say it is blogs like these that prove people how thoughtful and deep a blog could penetrate. Hats off Jug!!!
Of course India screaming on Australia's racism in one fact is like a blind man complaining about a short sighted person...
Though we are aware of this fact, I should say we can't and should not stop screaming at the Aussies, as we don't wish our Bro's and Sis's in Australia to pay the price and be victims of racism.
Its easy to correct short sightedness than curing blindness!!!
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Gary says: June 08, 2009 at 04:11 PM IST
Racism exists everywhere, it maybe true that racism exists over here, so does that mean, first we should wait for racism to get over here, then only we have a right to speak against racism. Australians are the first to rant about racism, but they have a problem of racism againt their own indigenous population of original aborigines. This time Indians have been attacked in a foreign country, all these local Indians in India should stop ranting talks about racism in India and they should better concentrate on Deploring actions in an Alien country.
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Gary says: June 08, 2009 at 04:11 PM IST
Racism exists everywhere, it maybe true that racism exists over here, so does that mean, first we should wait for racism to get over here, then only we have a right to speak against racism. Australians are the first to rant about racism, but they have a problem of racism againt their own indigenous population of original aborigines. This time Indians have been attacked in a foreign country, all these local Indians in India should stop ranting talks about racism in India and they should better concentrate on Deploring actions in an Alien country.
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rom says: June 08, 2009 at 04:13 PM IST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jug u are talking totally OUT OF THE FKIN BOUNCE
applying fairness cream is nothing to do with racizm. U moron.
Do u really thing people apply fairness cream to change the race(race by definition = the root of origin).
Idiots like you mix the subject and make things worst, rather than alleviating the situation u are flaming it up. Just because to satisfy your damn cynical sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and ofcouse cast system still prevails in India b'cos of illiteracy and India will take care of it very soon.
Every one knows its just few political parties that uses cast system for vote banks and thats all.
In the end I would just say that Australian govt. should take action against those who are threat to Australian Education business.
Lets face it every society has few nitwits who do these demonstrations to gain attainment.
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Prof. P P Bahuguna says: June 08, 2009 at 04:15 PM IST
Jug Suraiyya should be sent to Australia. He will come to his senses when Australian racisis break his head. By writinf this letter is he justifying what is happenning in Australia? It has become a fashion with some of so called India 'journalists' to write againsts indians in all situations - whether beating or getting beaten!! Shame on them if they cant stand with countymen and do nat have courage to deplore the wrong doer.
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sumeet saini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
There is no denying that we (pre independence era indians)are bunch of biggest racials. We never treat individuals as individuals - he is banya, or jatta da munda or cham**r etc is very common to hear. We type cast and generalise every thing. If north indians can get beaten up in maharashta and nothing is done I think even Indian government has no right to raise this question, we should first clean your house than look outside.
Second and major point, when we go to some new culture we dont adopt it and ridicule it or write it down and then does not care for local rules and cultre. The fact also is many of indian groups dont behave properly there and others ( innocents ) have to pay the price.
Last thing, half of the students dont go to study there but to earn and settle and thus take up lower level jobs rather than high skilled jobs and this leads to raised eyebrows... How many students adhere to 20 hrs a week schedule ? none so its but obvious to have problems sooner or laer,definatly in recession.
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chstrig says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
Jug Suraiya is such a clueless individual that it almost makes one feel ashamed to have read even a sentence of his lousy columns. Simply seeking attention at an age when he should've been capable of demanding it without asking for it. In India, however, talentless freaks like Jug can easily claim some kind of stardom and pass their entire lives writing nonsense which, believe it or not, finds praise. In Australia the Indians are getting beaten up till their last breath and Jug wants to equate that with the kind of "racism" Indians exercise in favor of something they find beautiful. Indians are free to exercise their right to call one attribute more desirable over the other as long as they don't go around beating up the attributes they don't care for. Is that happening? Why isn't that happening? Elimination of racism shouldn't eliminate the act (or art) of preference now should it? And while one prefers something they are at the same time prefering it over some other thing - some other thing that they don't like. Now, if Jug Suraiya had any sense whatsoever he would've figured that out by himself. And chances are, he probably has but then writing something that makes sense, that is completely true wouldn't have made for a distinct headline. At this present moment while everyone is derailing Australia, Jug decided to take the unique line of thought and has tried to derail his own countrymen. But the inefficient manner in which he has tried to pull that stunt off shows that Jug is merely hungry for some attention which basically renders him as a pointless, unimportant, hack of a journalist. In fact, not even a journalist. Irrespective of how many people on here agree with him, Jug probably knows what a lousy job he has done. And if he doesn't know then he is capable of no deep insight.
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Prof. P P Bahuguna says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
Jug Suraiyya should be sent to Australia. He will come to his senses when Australian racisis break his head. By writinf this letter is he justifying what is happenning in Australia? It has become a fashion with some of so called India 'journalists' to write againsts indians in all situations - whether beating or getting beaten!! Shame on them if they cant stand with countymen and do nat have courage to deplore the wrong doer.
Agree (7) Disagree (8)
Abu Akram says: June 08, 2009 at 04:18 PM IST
I agree partly. What we have India is different. India is color coded and cast coded and diversity of rich and poor. Indian always almost have given high grades to "white" and " gora" . There is different of North Indian/South Indian. There is racist society in Americas also, but that is changing very much. If you do not like Australia, do not stay there- come back home and live with dignity( officially and politically Indian Govt is not doing anything to find out reality) We are carried of by the media like America(USA)
Make your own judgment. We achieved ecadomically so much in the world stage that we should be able judge what racism.
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SK says: June 08, 2009 at 04:19 PM IST
Physical assaults based on race / caste are indeed deplorable. However, the hysteria in Indian media is puzzling. As a result of over-exaggerated media coverage, there is a charged-up mood in Melbourne. As a result, people like me who had never feared enjoying leisurely late evening walks in the vibrant streets of Melbourne CBD, now have to worry about personal safety.
It’s a real sad state of affairs….!!!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:20 PM IST
IT HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA, that even when our people were discriminated against; some of us are still wondering-- how can a white be wrong/bad..
GREAT PARADOX-- of this article is that the writer himself is having deep hidden sense of inferiority & identity crisis for being born black!!! the British shahab, whom his forefathers used to serve, is still a role model hero for him & unfortunately, for many others..
India is one of the most tolerant countries, otherwise democracy would not have survived, in a country of such diversity.. you think so because you always thought yourselves to be a marathi/ punjabi/hindu/ dalit, & never as an indian.. but, for those who think themselves to be indians, everything gets amalgamated.. the whole world wonders how can we be a single country!! it in itself proves our tolerence.. as someone allready mentioned-- minorities got extinguished in many countries, but not in india.. Discrimination do exist in india, but its an exception & not a rule.. that too, due to factors like poverty, illiteracy etc..
WHY DISCUSSING COLOURS?? INDIANS WERE TARGETED, SO WE ARE ANGRY & HENCE OUR REACTION.. NO MATTER WHO HE IS, HE MUST GET THE LESSION.. THATS IT..
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Rein says: June 08, 2009 at 04:21 PM IST
Look at the current problem first, before singing a song " I am a racist" or we are racist. Don't include me in your " We are more racist" You might be racist, but I m not, in my family, there is a true integration of different families from all parts of India.
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Abu Akram says: June 08, 2009 at 04:22 PM IST
I agree partly. What we have India is different. India is color coded and cast coded and diversity of rich and poor. Indian always almost have given high grades to "white" and " gora" . There is different of North Indian/South Indian. There is racist society in Americas also, but that is changing very much. If you do not like Australia, do not stay there- come back home and live with dignity( officially and politically Indian Govt is not doing anything to find out reality) We are carried off by the media like American(USA)
Make your own judgment. We achieved ecadamically so much in the world stage that we should be able judge what racism.
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amit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:23 PM IST
yess we indianss r the biggest racist,in everyy corner of india people dicriminate each other under name of CASTE,COLOUR,STATE,RICH,POOR,RELIGION,COUNTRY..ETC.
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 04:25 PM IST
We also get extra price for every item, because shopkeepers think we should pay extra. While indians go to abroad to get more money and fame. How many charitable hospitals, ashrams, and big enterprises have been made by foreigner support??, indians like our money, but still is discrimination against us in India...no compassion in the land of Sanatan Dharma.
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Kris says: June 08, 2009 at 04:26 PM IST
INDIA IS BIGGEST RACIST COUNTRY I HAVE EVER SEEN, AFTER LIVING IN EUROPE, US AND AUS.
90% Indians are very greedy, no respect to others, no respect to society.
For sure, students travelling to US/UK/AUS should learn foreign culture, life and values first. Instead of flocking like gays and nuisance at public places, loud music, Cheating shops by returning items after 30 days, staring at couples.
80% Indians in abroad doesn't know manners. AUS have every right to teach a lesson.
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Varun (UK & MUMBAI) says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
Hi there people,
Although the blogger is right in many ways about what he has said. We Indians are racist but we use these terms and terminology in not so offensive and humourous ways. We might call Africans Negros or Habshis or White 'Chitti CHamri' or 'GORA PAKORA' but we are never violent! We use these terms for sure but I have never seen or heard that Indians attacked any African, White or N-E students are tourists anywhere in India! We are racist for fun but we are never racist with violence! I have lived half my life in UK and now I am living in India and I can assure you, there is a lot more violent Racism present in UK, USA and Europe then we have in India.
The main problem that we can talk about is Hindu-Muslim rivalry or agitations but that is result of centuries of bad relations and mistrust and the so obvious history!
India and Indians are not racist in true terms! What is happening in Australia, be it part of a larger problem in Australia, the fact is these are guests in someone's country and as hosts it is there responisibility to take care of them.
Just becuase a guest is living in someone's house, it does not become ok that they get attacked too if the house owners have problems!!!!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
NOT BECAUSE OF WHETHER HE IS A FAIR INDIAN/ OR, DARK INDIAN.. WE ARE ANGRY, BECAUSE A FELLOW INDIAN IS HIT.. A COUNTRY AS POWERFUL AS OURS, SHOULD HAVE THAT SENSE OF POWERFUL IDENTITY.. BUT, THESE SO CALLED SCHOLARS/ JOURNALIST, AS IS THE WRITER HERE, WITH DEEP SEATED INFERIORITY/ LACK OF SELF RESPECT; WHO HIMSELF LACKS INSIGHT INTO HIS MENTAL STATE, IS TEACHING US HOW TO INTROSPECT..
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Abhinav says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
Even if racism or casteism exists in India,we are not blind to it. The Africans and the 'chinkies' are not 'assaulted' in Delhi. And moreover we are not blind to this issue. If casteism exists,we accept it and have done measures to curb the same. If Africans or others were to be attacked in Delhi,hundreads of Indians only will hold a protest march. This does not happen in Oz. All we want from Australia is to accept that racial attacks have taken place and find measures to deal with it. Indian students are not some illegal migrants. Neither have they approached the Australian universities. Rather it is the australian Universities which come to India and advertise in Educational Fairs. Go to one of such fares in Pragati Maidan in Delhi and see for yourself how Indian students are lured to study in Oz.
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Rein says: June 08, 2009 at 04:30 PM IST
Its an International Issue, stop outflow of US Dollars to Australia. I always knew about Australia, as a decade back too, there were few attacks on people of Asian origin, this time, there are attacks on Indians. Chinese were earlier targets. The fact is young teens in Australia don't care about elders, they are illiterate,and uneducated. Mostly come from rural background, and they don't know what to do in cities as they are not educated. Indians being concentrating on their studies and professional life, don't indulge in violence, hence they become soft targets. Call the Aussie ambassador again, and put more pressure or Come out with an advisory, if Govt fails then we are going to come out with advisories.
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len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
As an indian living for the last 20 yrs in Australia,I know where the real problem lies about the indian students.It is certainly not about australians being racist as indians are the number one racist in the world.Just look at any matrimonial add in any indian newspaper and you will know what I am talking about.As for the indian students I think I know the problem.First they all seem to roam in packs either speaking loudly in hindi or some local dialect.Secondly the way they stare at white women you would think they haven't seen women in their lives.Thirdly most of them cannot speak proper english and make no attempt to learn the language.Fourthly most of them are enrolled in such shady colleges that the only thing they are promised is permanent residnecy after they finish their course.I for one would think most of them would be more comfortable in Bangladesh than in Australia.I am sure most of them come from small towns or villages.I grew up in India all those years ago where most college students were smart.I cannot help but think the worst of the students are coming here.Finally I think it would help if these students made an attempt to fit in to their new environmennt rather than going out to demonstrate and do all the big talk when the cameras are on them.They are certainly a disgrace.
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babuds says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
Racist slur, even in jest, like chinky, bhaiya, darkie or madrasi is one thing. Bashing the brains out or carving the body with a knife, based on one's color is entirely different, . These two are entirely different and hence neither equatable nor comparable. What a stupid article.
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Raghu says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
Hello...
Firstly well said Mr.Jug,I am a resident of Austraia from past 6 years and am well settled in a job in Melbourne.
Who says there is no racism in India? we can enjoy treating someone with all sorts of racists acts and abuses, but sorry we cannot afford to be treated or abused racially!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well,what else could be a better example for hypocrites.
Also, i think some one mentioned about the media in India, the are so very excited to cover the stories in ozeland, but cannot care a damn about girls thrashed in the pub,marathas attacked on the street,tamilians attacked in Blore,north eastern states' people treated as foreigners to INDIA..........
Well done TIMES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lastly, lets not forget, we are the visitors to this country, they never invited us.....
lets also think which is critical,
whether an Indian not safe in India or Indian not safe in AUS?????
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INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 04:34 PM IST
THANKS TO AUSTRALIANS , YOU HAVE GIVEN AN OPPURTUNITY FOR INDIANS TO INTROSPECT ON ITS OWN RECORD OF RACISM. INDIANS PLEASE GROW UP FAST.WE NEED TO BE UNITED IN THIS GLOBAL VILLAGE CALLED EARTH.
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Vijay says: June 08, 2009 at 04:34 PM IST
This is 100% true. We practice a harder racism than any other country in this world. We double speak and we are hypocrites. We dont allow dalits to enter the temples. We mistreat poor people, never give them the respect that a fellow human deserves. We bash rikshaw wallas for 5Rs. We haggle with sabji wallas for 2 rs. We dont allow out housemaids to be a part of the family. We are divided in the colleges by reservation and categories. We are divided by regionalism (Bihar vs MNS). We are divided by religion (Ram temple, masjids blah blah). We do not have a right to call others racists unless we correct ourselves. Obvisouly despite being allegedly "racist", Australian society is way better than Indian society, otherwise why would people spend huge money to go and live there.
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M Manoj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:36 PM IST
There are people of particular social status being beaten, thrashed,assaulted, molested, raped, murdered, burned, humiliated, forced to drink urine,paraded naked, face blackened and so on JUG is simply reminding us when some students who can afford to study in Australia are beaten.
I study in New Zealand and I everyday see how our fellow Indians behave arrogantly in campuses. Thank God its not Australia.
But this does not mean I don't care what's happening in Australia.
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askj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
Very well said.. the last para sums up the whole truth. It does happen in india. and there are perverts who do it.
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
WHITE COLOUR IS PREFERED OVER BLACK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS!! WHITE EMITS ALL LIGHT & BLACK ABSORBS ALL.. JUST LOOK AT THE COLOR OF YOUR SHIRT & YOU WILL FIND IT YOURSELF, THAT WHITE IS CLEANER WHICH YOU PREFER.. OUR PREFERENCE IS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF LIGHT/ OUR RATINA/BRAIN..
& BLACK'S ARE NOT DISADVANTAGED.. BLACKS HAVE LESS RISK OF MELANOMA THAN WHITES-- A CLEAR BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE.. SIMILARLY, WHITE SKIN ALSO HAVE OTHER ADVANTAGES..
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Romit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
Absurd Blog topic, Author is not interested in building consensus to fight racism (racial terrorism) rather than lecturing us.
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M Manoj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:39 PM IST
Jug is in fact talking about "ism", you can write anything before it - race, caste, region and the result will be somewhat the same or it depends what you justify :)
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Naveen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:40 PM IST
I feel sorry for the people suffering from racism and we must fight to stop it.
However, you can't blame someone racist when entire Hindu religion is based on racism .
My only concern is why media is so discriminating about its own citizens in India.
Every day 2 dalit woman are raped and 1 man killed due to this Hindu caste system. Why don't Media prints it....cos all the higher caste people control media.
First clean you home, then tell others home is dirty.
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transport says: June 08, 2009 at 04:42 PM IST
I subscribe to your views. Racism remains in the blood of human. be it between indian and european or among indians. Among same caste and community.
I have seen people distance themselves just because of the colour.
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:42 PM IST
WHOM WILL YOU MARRY-- JENIFER LOPEZ/ HELLY BERRY ETC OR, PARIS HILTON ??
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ravi patel says: June 08, 2009 at 04:44 PM IST
finally someone has spoken about this. we indians have a bad habit of seeing ourselves as holly being's who can do no wrong. i have been in australia for a while now and i can proudly say that australia has been really nice to me. we should look at the evils with in us and our society, before acting like I!D!O!TS and calling the whole country racist and burning effigies.
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vidya says: June 08, 2009 at 04:45 PM IST
its not fair on part of some indians to justify the racist attacks on indians in australia on the basis that indians themselves are racist......not denying that SOME indians are racist..its a problem to be solved within ourselves.....and not to be punished by firangis....moreover they are attacking innocent indians who maynot be racist as said by some....they are already hurt and abused......such comments by their own fellow citizens will furthur annoy them...its easy to comment on others sufferings sitting at home....hard to suffer yourself...pls dont justify these brutal attacks on indians.....by announcing your own motherland as racist..
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mohan says: June 08, 2009 at 04:45 PM IST
i m 1000 percent agree with ur points and wanted to say when our govt cant stop this racism in country itself , u can see every where in india....
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len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:46 PM IST
As an indian living for the last 20 yrs in Australia,I know where the real problem lies about the indian students.It is certainly not about australians being racist as indians are the number one racist in the world.Just look at any matrimonial add in any indian newspaper and you will know what I am talking about.As for the indian students I think I know the problem.First they all seem to roam in packs either speaking loudly in hindi or some local dialect.Secondly the way they stare at white women you would think they haven't seen women in their lives.Thirdly most of them cannot speak proper english and make no attempt to learn the language.Fourthly most of them are enrolled in such shady colleges that the only thing they are promised is permanent residnecy after they finish their course.I for one would think most of them would be more comfortable in Bangladesh than in Australia.I am sure most of them come from small towns or villages.I grew up in India all those years ago where most college students were smart.I cannot help but think the worst of the students are coming here.Finally I think it would help if these students made an attempt to fit in to their new environmennt rather than going out to demonstrate and do all the big talk when the cameras are on them.They are certainly a disgrace.
Agree (15) Disagree (38)
len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:48 PM IST
I think the students should go back to india if they feel victimised.Maybe they can feel like first class citizen and marry the girl their mummies want them to.
Agree (8) Disagree (9)
Kamalpreet says: June 08, 2009 at 04:50 PM IST
Within India........some one beats you on the name of caste. Outside india, on the name of race.
Solution : self protection.........else make it a habbit
Agree (15) Disagree (7)
sumeet saini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:52 PM IST
There is no denying that we (pre independence era indians)are bunch of biggest racials. We never treat individuals as individuals - he is banya, or jatta da munda or cham**r etc is very common to hear. We type cast and generalise every thing. If north indians can get beaten up in maharashta and nothing is done I think even Indian government has no right to raise this question, we should first clean your house than look outside.
Second and major point, when we go to some new culture we dont adopt it and ridicule it or write it down and then does not care for local rules and cultre. The fact also is many of indian groups dont behave properly there and others ( innocents ) have to pay the price.
Last thing, half of the students dont go to study there but to earn and settle and thus take up lower level jobs rather than high skilled jobs and this leads to raised eyebrows... How many students adhere to 20 hrs a week schedule ? none so its but obvious to have problems sooner or laer,definatly in recession.
Agree (16) Disagree (21)
Iumen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:54 PM IST
I totally agree with this article. As a fellow Indian from the North east and residing in Sydney, I feel that whatever has happened here has been projected beyond that is required.The irony is that I have personally experienced racism in India but not here. Having said that, I am not saying whatever events that has happened here is justified,but it has been exaggerated in India. The reason why most Indians have a problem here is because they cannot accept and adjust to the way another society live and behave.They bring with them the same mentality,attitude, manners and behaviour that they are so used to India.They lack the kind of respect that people here expect everyone to have. Hence because of certain kind of people (Im not saying that everyone behaves the same way)the Indian name is tarnished. Until and unless the mentality and behaviour of these certain individuals change, I guess everyone here will still have a hard time. It is right that the government of Australia need to tackle these problems more seriously and make sure that nothing happens to anyone.Solution need to be both ways.
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paresh jain says: June 08, 2009 at 04:55 PM IST
Disagrre with the point.
We should not compare racism in India with what is happening in Australia. If u are saying about attraction to fair and white then it is just obvious but it never means that we beat the black people or we have any bad feeling for these people.
Here so many north indians are living in south and vice versa but there are very less chances to beat these people based on their colour except some incidence of your bad time.
But definitely comparing this with australia things just show how we are making ourselver weaken in front of world.
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Renu Singh says: June 08, 2009 at 04:56 PM IST
Everywhere racism is being maintained in one or other way, only name’s are different :-
1) Castism : our leader used to do in the name of reservation to preserve there vote bank
2) In mumbai Indians beaten up that to by Indian only in the name of North India
3) And how TamilNadu is treats to Hindi (National Language) and other’s language people
It would be great to stay on this topic. We are certainly more racist than others. I am against the racism incident in Australia, but why don’t we wake up and stop physical violence and let people live with peace. I request you to kindly look at the above mentioned point and many more, stand up togather and let India grow with peace and Harmony.
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Hudinang says: June 08, 2009 at 04:59 PM IST
Hi Jug,Well said.Racism is happening within india.e.g Against Dalits,south indian,NE ppl..etc.First,we sud see how racism is happeining in india itself.See,bhai aur bheno,they(whites)are attacking particularly indians as they think indians are dirty(littering)..where ever they go.they are very particular on cleanliness.are they attacking other ppl???they attacking esp.indian looking ppl.so i strongly suugest everyindian to stop littering. After seeing india,...all those garbage and litters...they think...we are polluting there land when we go there...Aus,US,europe...
So dear frens...be cool. attacks will go on...so take good care of your selves.
Jai hind !!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 05:11 PM IST
It seems that vast majority of you think that since indians are more racist, australians are justified even if they kill our people!!
ok, then.. why we are discussing those incidence/ demanding action??
if all were justified acts.. so, why complaining, let things continue the same way!!!!!! let our fellow indians learn it the harder way!!!!!!!
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MK says: June 08, 2009 at 05:12 PM IST
I agree with the author on topics related to cast, ill treatment of dalits and others. It is definitely inhuman, and I doubt if there are any other such horrendous systems that exist anywhere around the world. But I totally disagree on things such as "chinkis", "madrasis", "kallus" etc being 'discriminatory'. Yes, they are sometimes used and in derogatory terms and are very rude, but we don't beat up people unnecessarily for just being from the north east, we don't refuse admissions in schools because someone is dark skinned, we don't loot up people because they are from South India. In fact, having been born and brought up in Delhi I can say that I have a lot of friends in my group whom we often call "chinki" or "madrasi", and they in turn have other names they call us but all 'just for fun'. It is just our diversity and country's variety that leads to this, and I don't see anything wrong here as long as there is no ill treatment. But this is not what is happening in Australia, Indians are being ill treated, beaten up and looted, just because they are from India. I am currently studying in the United States, and have never fortunately experienced anything racist, nor have I heard any one my friends there complaining of anything remotely related to racism. But a lot of my friends in Australia complain of discrimination, and the arrogance of Aussies. Australia is just not tolerant enough, decent enough or responsible enough to host students from another country, as has been made clear recently. In fact, the Aussie cricket team is a good example of how that country is-indecent and arrogant! Its just how they are, and how they have been brought up.
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anjali says: June 08, 2009 at 05:15 PM IST
Its been 100s of years for racism in India ,but things did improve in India .It would take time for it to vanish completely .But what about the UK and Australia ,they are considered to be modern and developed countries right ? ? Why do they have do all this ?
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Venkat says: June 08, 2009 at 05:16 PM IST
Two wrongs do not make a right. Jug's comments on racism in India that need fixing - is right but also irrelevant. What is happening in Australia is beyond racism. They are hate crimes and a form of terrorism against hapless Indians, who have merely come to study there.
No parallels there Jug! Major problem with Indians is - they get into introspection when they should urge resolution to prevent loss of lives.
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R.N.Sujir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:22 PM IST
There is an old saying"live like a first class citizen in your own country rather than a third class citizen in any other country'.This is true for any citizen of any country and not for Indians alone.Racism has nothing to do with it.Do we not see countless examples of people getting affected in various places across the world.
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P. Ramana says: June 08, 2009 at 05:28 PM IST
After having read This whole article and comments i can guarantee that it is a stageshow of Austarlian govt' public relation exercise who seems ashamed of what is happeneing in Australia.This kind of counter aggression is typical trait of Australians.Those who call indians racist dont understand meaning of racist.I am from Tamilnadu i would be called tamilian where is racism in this ? Did'nt I fight for changing Madras to Chennai for having that identity? If some one is buying a skin whitening cream are'nt white people undergo tanning to change the way they look ? How is that racism ? Some fools even commented indians charge more for a TAJ visit from foreigners what a pity these people dont know in how many counteries there are different rates for foreign visitors. Dont poople know that international students pay higher fees den native students in many european/ North American universities ? Is that racism ? People fighting for jobs is not racism. Even casteism is not racism. As india rises there will be lot of talk of casteism by white knights as they can not tolerate the change.And they would buy conscience of a Jugsurya and would den flood letters sections.Indian students in Aus have legitimate visa, paid the fees, pay for their living expenses, obey the law of the land why they are being targetted ? because Mr. Jug "thinks" indians are racist ? It is an insult even to publish such blogs
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Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 05:28 PM IST
The author's could have done a better job. There is no doubt that casteism is a bigger problem than racism. Even though i belong to upper caste, i do not know when will people begin accepting that caste should not be the basis on which merit is determined. anyhow India's standards have been low from the independence day and i do not expect miracle to happen soon. Our Legal system is so good that it will never focus on common people's problem ever in India. They do not have time for common people...
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Sandhir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:31 PM IST
everything mentioned in the blog is right!
The problem is with the Title - We don't cause bodily injuries to people!
The article talks about Africans being called “Habshi” in North India but it is not like they are specifically getting victimized.
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Shergill says: June 08, 2009 at 05:33 PM IST
My dear Sir
All most all of us in India are the same race. The differences you are talking about are regional and not based on race. Do you think there is no rivalry between sydney siders and melburnians. Donot try to justify attacks on Indians by Australians. Come to Melbourne and live in the Western or Northern Suburbs for a month and use public transport (at odd hours) instead of a car and I assure you will go back to India with only a few unbroken bones. Its easy to write such articles sitting in your ac rooms in comfortable chairs.
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hortense vaughan says: June 08, 2009 at 05:40 PM IST
It is heartening to see that many Indians see the racism in their own society and I have heard of Indians complaining that the women of southern India are undesirable because they are so black.
The racism in your society does not justify or lessen the evil of the racial attacks on Indian students in Australia or the attacks
on Dalits Muslims Sikhs and Christians in India.
Ghandi was non racist and a great human being but now is looked upon as an old fashioned and out dated.
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Shakti says: June 08, 2009 at 05:43 PM IST
Another ill-timed, insensitive & thoughtless piece of 'wisdom'.
Men like these have been in all ages in our country...
When foreigners attacked us, they said "Ahimsa paramo dharma! "
When our nation was subjugated, they said "Vasudeivo kutumbakam!"
Jug surayya & people like him are just so ashamed of being Indians!
Their only contribution is to create confusion with ill-sounding logic & concocted arguments & that too at sensitive times.
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Vinoth Kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 05:44 PM IST
Racism is ugly and unacceptable wherever it happens. Things going in australia is sad as everyone of us know . At the same time as authour said, do think about racism which is happening in our country . Where Mr.Sastry and other people have gone when same kind of attack is happening every minute in Inida against lower caste people, uneducated, and people from North east . Here people come and bark only if thier son is there in australia .we as a human community pray for the weel being of our fellow Inidans in australia at the same time take some steps to abolish racism in India also . Do spend ur time to think about stopping racism here at the time u mourn for indian attacks in australia.
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Pradeep says: June 08, 2009 at 05:46 PM IST
Good perspective on the subject, but misses the point, just as how media has failed to rightly focus on the issue. The issue is not racism, but violence or the hate crimes. Racism is the next level of debate, but first crime has no place in civil society whether racially motivated or not.Can australia prevent such racially motivated crime, I am not too sure - Just as India cannot prevent foreign tourists getting raped in India and even get blamed for getting cosy with the rapists. Indian Media is playing its part of flashing it , just how foreign media does it when some tourist gets raped in India. Economic and moral development were thought to be the solutions to these issues, but I guess we far from that. Australia may be ahead of us marginally , but we ourselves have a long way to go.
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sagar says: June 08, 2009 at 05:50 PM IST
i agree we indians are very racist and un united
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Sudhir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:59 PM IST
I could nt have put it better myself, u have put word to my feelings
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Ashim says: June 08, 2009 at 06:04 PM IST
One more interesting fact about our racial discrimination. If we look at the item numbers in our Bollywood movies, the appearance of White (Westerners) girls is increasing day by day. The movie makers make money by showing what the consumers will like so they show more and more of partially nude white women. Indian men love to see white women rather than non-white. I have seen multiple songs where they have also moved Indian dancers to the back and kept the white ones in the front.
This explains a lot about us.
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Pat says: June 08, 2009 at 09:25 PM IST
May be we are even more racist than Aussies, but that does not mean Aussies should beat up Indians so that they notch up their reputation as racists. This is not a competition and two wrongs do not make a right.
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David says: June 08, 2009 at 09:26 PM IST
Its is interesting. I agree with most of ur points. All Indians are dark skinned and yet u find some of them discriminating others on the degree of darkness in complexion. European people definitely not so much considerate about skin color. Yes do agree they are rascists, but who isn't. Problem in India is that Indian discriminate among people of their own race. Mates if u do so do expect others not show same attitude towards you. What goes around, comes around.
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Atul says: June 08, 2009 at 09:28 PM IST
Isn't it the same guy who came out a few weeks ago with suggestion that we should hit back (physically) on Aussies. Now he's justifying (bad)apples with (bad)oranges.
How does clowns like this keep their job at Times Of India.
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Maps says: June 08, 2009 at 09:40 PM IST
Jug, you have carved in some good observations as India is plagued with casteism and state favorotism which is exactly not racism but close. Can a Marathi or Kannadiga call Australians a racist ?? NO first they should see how they treat Biharis and Tamilians in their own state.Can politicians call Aussies a racist?? NO first they should see how they are biassed with Education and Job opportunities between different castes.
Having said that i have never seen Indians beating up african students regularly. If Indians want to abuse foreigners they will do it without partiality in colour and with pleasure:-)) see how many white women are abused in Rajasthan and Goa. Indians also dont have reservation in job or promotion because of colour and i have also havent seen a single dark coloured Indian beaten up just becaused of his colour. So problems do exist in Aussie and India but they are bit different
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Frustrated says: June 08, 2009 at 09:45 PM IST
How many times do we have to say it....AUSTRALIA IS NOT A RACSIST COUNTRY. The message doesn’t seem to be getting through to India no matter how many times it is said. I am starting to think that not only is India racist but it is stupid also.
(Note: apologies for this insult to all those local and overseas Indians who don’t hold to the view that all Australians are racists, but my patience at hearing this constant stream of lies and abuse about my home is starting to wear thin)
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Suresh M says: June 08, 2009 at 09:47 PM IST
I think Indians should stay home.
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Niks says: June 08, 2009 at 09:54 PM IST
Also .. would like to point out inter state racism.. he is from east(chinki) from south (tamil) ye gujju hai.. marwadi ;)
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True Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 09:58 PM IST
Whats your point? Are you justifying what Australians did and are doing to innocent Indians? Let me clarify this to you that while casteism is rampant in India amongst uneducated illiterate ppl, even the most sophisticated and elite Aussies are indulging in racist attacks. While Indian govt is quick to pounce upon and punish any person who attacks a foreigner in India, Aussies have so far failed to take any action. I dont think you ever read newspapers like The Australian, who are supporting their deeds even in these circumstances unlike India where even a Qasab gets a chance to be acquitted one day. The biggest curse to India has been the birth of Gandhi who made our all the future generations impotent in the name of tolerance and non-violence.
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Damodar P.Shetty says: June 08, 2009 at 10:03 PM IST
Jug Surya has confused racism with casteism, There is no racism in Inida at all. What we practice is casteism which is practiced among ourselves. I dont say it is good, it is bad but it exists since long long ago. Treating dalits in the name of caste is a crime. What is wrong with people prefering white colour, white skin, fair complex? People like good things in life. This dsoesnt mean it is racism, absolutely not. It is like questioning, why do you preferRose to any other flower. Even about North Indian/south indian cases, it is not raccism, here they are are not accepted because, it will enroach their employment opportunity. So dont compapre Australian racism to our castteiism.
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Jeet says: June 08, 2009 at 10:14 PM IST
Racism in Oz is different. This racism has nothing to with skin color. I have many of my UK friends and they themsleves have experienced racism from thier ausi counter part. So its not the color which is causing the problem. I do agree that in india and other asian country color do matter, but people dont go and hit dark people. Let me remind you that even lord krishna was dark, still people loved him and so any many people are dark but i dont thing we hate them. Its a human desire to have fair color skin, but it doesn't mean that we hate drak people. I totally disagree with you Mr jug.
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shivanand says: June 08, 2009 at 10:47 PM IST
Well, to start with, you Don't have to be a racist to catch a racist. Its not rocket science.One can still sniff racism even if he/she doesnt practice it. Casteism, an age old racism practice is India gave way to new reforms and reservations for the upliftment of the deprived, which in a way was a step taken to ensure that they dont stay deprived anymore. Similarly when the world is the stage here, all we want is to ensure that such "reforms" are made at a higher level to abolish the same. Punish the guilty and intimidate the aspired. Why is India the greatest racist nation? Just because regional conflicts creates hatred within ourselves for someone from a different region? I disagree. All these are majorly politically driven and such petty regional conflicts take place in EVERY country in the world. We have lived all our lives in India, or at the maximum, might have seen the US, UK or Australia. With about a couple of hundred countries in the world and not knowing anything about those individuals, we better not mention India being the MOST racist. Lets not forget, at the end of the day we are a strongly knit single unit where a "roman catholic, gave way to a sikh prime minister sworn in by a muslim president". Racism is omni-present and it can never be abolished. The bottomline is humanity considers racism as an evil practice and we must stand for what is right be it inside our country our outside it.
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Chwang says: June 08, 2009 at 10:48 PM IST
HEY INDIANS PLEASE STOP MAKING EXCUSES ONCE AND FOR ALL. YOU ARE A RACIST BUNCH AND I AM FROM THE NORTH EAST. YOU MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS TO MIND OUR BUSINESS LIKE CRAZY...AND IF YOU GO TO A NEW COUNTRY WITH THE SAME ATTITUDE THEN EXPECT THE WORST..UNLESS YOU CHANGE YOUR MENTALITY..BIG TIME..EDITOR PLEASE NOTE:AM NOT WRITING TO CREATE A MISUNDERSTANDING BUT MERELY STATING A FACT...TY
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rebel says: June 08, 2009 at 10:51 PM IST
My dear Fellow Citizens, it is rather amusing, to read all the post listed above.. I dont want to waste my enery by going on and on again about the differences between race, caste, creed, ethnicity etc...just want to remind you, a very simple phrase"Do unto others as you want them do to you"
I am not justifying what is happenig in Australia,it is indeed very disturbing to hear about the Indian students who are suffering there.
But,it is time we move out of our hypocritic and denial world. Look at how we treat our own fellow bretherens from the North East, Bihar, south India, the dalits etc.For these people every single day starts and ends with discrimination.Every single step of theirs is followed by strange glares and bombartment with derogatory comments such as:- "chinky","biharis","Mallus" etc. Some one had written in his post that in India we use "name calling based on region,caste, creed, ethnicity"etc, humurously!Hence I want to ask my fellow citizens, do you suppose humour at the expense of others is "fun"?? Derogating your fellow brethern is"fun"?
Out of your busy schedule, take a minute and put yourselves in the shoes of the one that you are "calling names at".. how would you feel??
It is time we wake up form our sense of false superiority, and Hypocracy and change our ways for the better. For remember it is, when we learn to respect and accept the diversity within ourselves and learn the aspect of cultural tolerance..only than we can expect to get the same response from others. It is high time, we bring about a change within ourselves , to bring about a change on a larger scale.
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**""WE INDIANS ARE SO ST**ID" ** says: June 08, 2009 at 10:51 PM IST
DEAR INDIANS
**THIS IS THE VERY REASON THE BRITS MANAGED TO RULE INDIA FOR SO LONG.**
AS THEY WERE KEEPING US BUSY IN THOUGHTS SUCH AS THE ONE WE HAVE INDULGED IN "WE ARE MORE RACIST THAN OZ".
THEY WERE BUSY KILLING AND BASHING US UP,AND SLAVING US FOR CENTURIES.
INDIANS LETS NOT BE SLAVES AGAIN!!!
JAI BHARAT MATHA KI!!!
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Nirmal says: June 08, 2009 at 10:53 PM IST
Very well said.... We Indians are the biggest racists in the whole world...we find every single opportunity to discriminate a fellow Indian - Caste, Language, Region, Religion...etc... The moment we get the taste of our medicine...Our Indian media gets all hyper and cry out loud...We are the biggest hypocrites in the whole...hope we change our ways.... and treat people as people...
At the same time... I feel bad for wts happening in Aus... Hope the Aus govt does something to stop it...
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Ajith says: June 08, 2009 at 10:54 PM IST
I was in Melbourne last February and used public transport extensively. I noticed that in the suburbs, 90% people you see on the roads after 8 PM are "Indian looking" people. So I feel that this is a Law and Order issue and not a "racial" issue.. However, there may be racial references in many cases, but the attacks itself are opportunistic in nature. This is clearly a "law and order" problem for the Victoria Police to address; and not a "racial issue" as hyped by our entertaining news media.
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Observer says: June 08, 2009 at 10:57 PM IST
Ha, you just hit the "Jugular Vein" when it comes to this issue. The dirty underbelly of the "unified" India, with its color, caste, religious and regional polarizations. When the Tamils were being massacred (20,000 civilians in the last 19 days of the Sri Lankan conflict), it caused not a blip at the central government level, except for some meaningless mouthing of platitudes, while providing diplomatic cover to the Lankans to go ahead with their activities. I wonder if the situation would have been different, if Sardarjis were being massacred in such large numbers in/by a neighbouring country or Gujaratis or Biharis etc., as opposed to Tamils going through with the terrible experience. Remember, we are not talking about surgical strikes but about the armed forces of the country, using heavy weaponry like Heavy machine guns, Artillery, cluster bombs, fighter planes, tanks etc., directly into Civilian areas. Saddam Hussein did not do a fraction of such activities, to be villified and pilloried in the United Nations.
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Jaspreet says: June 08, 2009 at 10:59 PM IST
Dear Author. I do not think that you have ever been out of India. Come out of India and face it.
I have seen some cooments from some guys that says that Racism in india is more than australia. May be they have some personal experience because of their colour tone or caste. Come here guys, White guys dont even like to sit beside you if you are a Coloured man.
To Author : You have hurted the spirit of all Indians who were accumulating against Racism in Australia. Shame on you
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Uttam says: June 08, 2009 at 11:05 PM IST
I am not sure, if Mr. Jug understands the meaning of racism.. by pointing out your "racism" in India, are you trying to prove that Indians students deserve to face racism in Australia ?
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Ankit says: June 08, 2009 at 11:17 PM IST
Talking about Racism in India is nothing new,but the Points which you have mentioned don't actually relate.Someones Liking based on colour can't be called a racism.May be one likes a dark coloured person but when it comes to justice or prefrence for job or any such activity color hardly matters. May be People like fair color that is the reason we see most of the media people of fair color and adds on that context,but that does not mean that there is any haterd for dark color peoples.
Talking about other points is fine But still i don't agree that the Racism here can be compared with that in Oz.
You Don't find any other Country with so many Castes and a mix of colors.But its only Possible in India.Every where in this World where One can divide People in one way or other may be based on caste,locality or anything else there will be a slight discrimination.
But i Do Agree that indians need to Cooperate and reduce whatever racism is there.
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deepak sharma says: June 08, 2009 at 11:17 PM IST
Though I agree with you that WE our selves are the biggest racist people where ppl in south India do not like north Indian and vice e versa. But as far the main issues where Indian students in Australia are attached are concerned I see these as a weak over strong. Indians are probably one of the most physically weak in the world. Diet play a big role in that most of the guys in our country do not eat non veg due to various reason(I do not want to get in to that). The attacks on Indian student reflects only one thing the perception the world has about us that we will not rebel, we will not react and are most peaceful people in the world. Having said that peace also come once you are strong enough to defend your self. It’s not about Australia there are many places in the world where Indians are attacked Germany , uk, U.S and many more. Just because Media is high lighting this series of incident do not mean Indians are not attacked any where else.
Though as I said we need to rectify the racism inside the country but if we want our people to be safe outside then there is no way accept that we make ourselves strong. It’s like people from Pakistan attacked Mumbai and killed so many people and we are making statements from here and anticipating Pak will take some action.
Summary is- We can name these incident the way we want, call it racism or any thing else but root cause of the issue is the fight between strong vs weak. This is happening from the time of civilization. Unfortunate we Indians lost most of wars initially with Mughals and then with British. We have to learn from it and defend ourselves better.
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Vamsi says: June 08, 2009 at 11:24 PM IST
History says that the casts have formed in India based on the line of business people are involved..for example..businessmen-maarwadis, cattlemen-yadavas, hairdressers-nayi-brahmans, worshippers-brahmins. I believe casts are different from races. The differences in India exists only because a group of people does not like the habits and customs of others. I don't think there is a racist element exists in the cast. Coming to the color, there is no racism in India based on color. People of all colors are doing well in India in higher positions.
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Nav says: June 08, 2009 at 11:26 PM IST
Jug is right.. there is so much racism in India. Have you tried going to a different state for work? remember what happened in Mumbai against so called north indians, what happens when a tamil goes to bangalore. Also why every south indian is called "madrasi". HELLO.. WAKEUP.. south india has 4 states and 1 union territory
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Shaan says: June 08, 2009 at 11:40 PM IST
Lets examine some facts of Indian culture.
Kama or Manmatha, the king of love is black in color according to ancient Indian literature.
Krishna, Rama and Vishnu various forms of one Hindu God are all black in color according to literature. And Krishna is known for his many lovers.
There is nothing to suggest any Indian favoritism towards fair color before the British rule. The British rule crushed the self confidence of many Indians and they wanted to project themselves as being much closer to the Europeans. So they readily bought the Aryan invasion theory which was really a tool for the British to divide this country. Even today many north Indians say that they are Aryans and Tamil political parties call themselves as dravidian. The word 'dravidian' itself is not present in the Tamil language and it is a sanskrit loan word. All of this is because of the slave mentality of Indians till recent times.
But now the situation has really changed. Even though you still see ads for fairness creams (which are commercially motivated) you must consider the popularity of Bipasha Basu, Deepika Padukone, Shahrukkhan and others before saying that Indians are racist. We don't beat up others because they are of a particular skin color. There is an amount of racism in any society but there is a limit. And importantly, in Australia they beat up Indians simply because they are Indians and not because they are non-white.
Please don't try to obfuscate the real issue at hand and be an apologists for criminals. These students who went to pursue education with the hard earned money of their poor parents are getting stabbed everyday but we still see Indians not voicing their opposition to these horrible acts with one voice. This is exactly the nature of the Indian slave mentality. A legacy of the colonial past.
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Prasoon says: June 08, 2009 at 11:48 PM IST
Nice article...makes us laugh and feel sad at the same time. Very true, even with people living abroad we do find such traits deep within them.
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Bharat Razdan says: June 09, 2009 at 12:01 AM IST
Philosophy and analysis on something can be endless but you must admit that we don't beat up or kill people because they are black. While calling some names sarcastically is fine as long as the person is not brutally stabbed and killed.
Indians have something called "Slave Mentality"; a syndrome that they have been suffering from ever since the Mahmud of Ghazni stepped on Indian soils. In simple terms, I mean to say that Indians are excellent at cursing, fighting, abusing their own kind even in a debate rather than tackling the external problem.... just as seen here. I am even surprised that the author is an Indian of this blog. Pathetic show of unity there with all the fancy philospohy brother... keep up this work and soon India would be as it was 5 centuries back--into tiny states.
I am an Indian as well; but unlike the remaining 99.99% I don't carry Slave Mentality Syndrome.... something that all other Indians do and who need to review their own greatness before degrading themselves in front of external forces.
Jai Hind.
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ARUNAVA BISWAS says: June 09, 2009 at 12:02 AM IST
200% correct.Racisim is too much a small word for us Indians who are perpetrators of discrimations in all its' forms in the name of caste,creed,relisgion,provincism,education,jobs,hospitals,food quality,human values etc. We do not deserve equal treatment especially when we are treated like refugees in our own country.We pretend to be innocent..we love to be 'Gandhari' with black cloths on eyes..
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rakesh reddy says: June 09, 2009 at 12:05 AM IST
Indians are the most racist people on earth.
This is a fact that we all know about and we need no lecturing about.
But that is not the moot point.
The point is how are we treating our guests ...especially white tourists or foriegn students in india....
The answer is we treat them like Gods.
Yes racism exists every where.....but does that mean that the shiv sena attack australians travelling in India and simply hide behind this fact?
That is what the australians do and are trying to do now.
If an australian were to be attacked here ...the whole of western media and the indian media ...with our politicians and our police would have rolled over in protest.
USA AND EUROPE WOULD HAVE put INDIA as a danger zone and warned tourists from entering our country.
In australia when the students were atttacked their media did not even report those attacks...till the indians protested on the streets of australia.
Is that not double standards?.
If that is not weighing the white tourist a little more than other humans what is?
When the indian students go to the police the police tells them that they cannot go about "protecting everyone" and that the indians should learn to take care of themselves.
Are we treating our white guests similarly?.
The premise of this author is that since we use "fairness cream" we Indians are racist.
What about australians and whites in general using tanning creams?.
Does that make all the whites who use tanning creams racist?.
Is that not illogical.
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siddharth says: June 09, 2009 at 12:12 AM IST
Well Mr Jug,what you refer to as racism is stereotyping more on regional lines. I think it is prevalent in many places all over the world, see UK, where the english, scots and the irish have the same kind expressions and banter about these communities. I believe that whats going on in australia is far more serious, especially when i have a brother there who instead of concentrate on studies has to live in the fear of life and death day in and day out. A tendency that some of you armchair critics have is to criticize india for everything that happens. At this point in this what is required is that we support our students and try and ensure their safety rather harping about the north-south east-west divide
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Satya Dayanand says: June 09, 2009 at 12:12 AM IST
So what...do our frailties justify others taking our lives? warped and politically correct articles to stay in the news?
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karthik says: June 09, 2009 at 12:13 AM IST
Indians are the worst racist of all in the entire world. Caste is the best example for it. Brahmins are considered to be 'Aryans' or originated from a place other than India. In Tamil Nadu, such Brahmins are treated worst than anywhere Indians are treated in the world. The present CM's son (and obviously the next CM), MK Stalin, used to pat the back of Brahmin ladies (in Sri Rangam town) during Hindi opposition times. Is that not racism or the ugliest word you can ever have? There was a time when dravidian parties (like DMK or Dravidar Kalagam) used to call Brahmins are dogs and snakes in public meetings. Even now, since Brahmins represent only 3% of the population, they are treated worse than Dalits (who represent 27% of population considering their vote bank). Castes with highest population - irrespective of their social status - are considered 'suppressed and oppressed' since they decide the next govt. Is this not racism?
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Norman says: June 09, 2009 at 12:16 AM IST
We should protest the bashings of our People/students in Australia.
However we should also look at our own backyard, as we also bash up our weak and meek brothers and sisters, even rape Religious Women, who cannot hit back.
We live in a self denial world.
One big question: Why do students want to go to these places, when they know very well that they are not accepted/welcome? If they feel the heat, they should come back. Simple, let the Aussie Govt. feel the pinch.
You see we cannot have our cake and eat it.
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S. Anand says: June 09, 2009 at 12:19 AM IST
Trying to look fair because we have a tanned skin and referring to a person with a term based on his place of origin is a mentality that Indians are living with. And more importantly they are comfortable being so. In the due course of such things, there is no intention to discriminate and harm other individuals if they are not from the same region. The author has made an effort to fit in those issues that India faces within itself to a rather sensitive issue of racism. Although our problems includes motivated discrimination, it is vaguely related to the topic of Racism, but is not racism. As mentioned earlier by one Mr/Ms "True Indian", it is the poor and the illiterate who find solace in discriminating them based on any possible sensitive issue, if it is not the castesim that will help them do so, they turn to regionalism. Although we dont have anything against the under-privileged, such things would still take time to overcome in this modern day India. A country where the guilty is penalised and the victim is presented with justice in every possible case of "racially motivated crime" as compared to Australia where the victims and their voices were being ignored by the whole nation until now, why is India being termed more racist?
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Raj says: June 09, 2009 at 12:22 AM IST
As I understand, Jug is not justifying the attacks on Indians. He is pointing to the fact that we are Racist too. If you are dark skinned gilr you wil understand how difficult it is to get married.
Irrespective of our own racial prejeduice we should however condemn the attacks against Indians in Australia. That said, we also need to address problems within the Indian society. The two are independent events.
Even after so many years of independence, the people from certain caste and tribe are trated life animals. And some of our readers say we only exchange friendly racial slur and not physical slur. That is not true. Physical attacks (including rape) aganist Dalit people and certain tribal groups is not uncommon. Worst is the complacancy of the police in those cases. The media does not report it widely because it is not as sensatona as Aishwarya Rai getting married. So let us increase our voice for both: a) attack against Indians in australia and b)Equaltiy and fair treatment for every one in India
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Sonu says: June 09, 2009 at 12:22 AM IST
hi jug ,
what you are writing is jug of rubbish , it is meant to be kept in the dustbin, not a paper like TOI.
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Prakash Kumar says: June 09, 2009 at 12:31 AM IST
India is truly a racist country. There is no doubt about it. We must look in mirror and try to correct that. But at this hour , please support our people in Australia who need our voice with them.
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janak says: June 09, 2009 at 12:33 AM IST
I think no tonly Indian but people around the world are racist in some sense or other. What people like Jug forget when whti type of things happen we never unite and fight as one INDIA. And this is the advantage taken . Our so called journalist specially writing in English news paper think they are non-racist , non secular nd all the goodies in teh world. It is time for all Indian to unite and be ONE INDIA when it comes to fight with the world outside. I think outsied world take Indians vey lightly because we do not speak in one voice. It is time to fight in one voice. If you see even the Americans and so called affluent countries are racist. They act in such a diplomatically and show that they are not. Ask any other than white skinned person how they feel in country outside theirs. It is esy to write sitting in comfortable room.
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Ravi says: June 09, 2009 at 12:36 AM IST
Equating Caste with Racism is being plain Naive and dowright stupid. Caste is not based on Race Its started of being based on proffession and then their genealogy etc. But all so called self proffessed intelignet western leaning writers of India invariably have to throw some dirt on anything of Indian Origin and then they feel they have served the cause of Secularism pluralism and made their point How Lame.
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Sankar Raman says: June 09, 2009 at 12:41 AM IST
Well it should not be confused between preferance and racist. I may like to marry a white complexioned woman that does not make me a racist it is just a matter of preferance. if it is to be equated then every monogamist is a racist because his/her souce is either black or white.
Discriminating or insulting or hurting folks based on anything (not just race) is wrong. But not everyday is the black folks killed in New delhi campuses so It is easy to make a mountain out of a mole hill and compare them and call them equals but it takes some intelligence to see them for what they are.
If e are bigger racists than ozzies, then to me it only means that you are giving a break for those who killed students of a particular ethnic origin and what does that make you? a racist! by your own definition of things. So if you think we are worse than those xeniphobic racist whack jobs would you dare to go and live in Austrlia than in India - much less make such an absurd comment against them?!
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Sudhir R says: June 09, 2009 at 12:43 AM IST
Even though I dont live in Australia, but i can imagine the horrors Indian students must be going through. Jug's article is true but not relevant to situation at hand. Throwing mild racial slurs at someone is different that attacking innocent student with sharp weapons.
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Hemant says: June 09, 2009 at 12:51 AM IST
Jug(headed) article, these are not words of wisdom and are not the requirement of time, Indian Govt. has been very docile and soft from history known, best example is the Mumbai carnage by ISI & Pak terrorists. It took a month for Oz govt. to play a diplomatic trick and appoint Mr. Vargheese and try to diffuse the situation. Caste system and other nonsense is not a subject matter at the moment.
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Norman A. Thomas. says: June 09, 2009 at 12:52 AM IST
You have racist in your own set up.
That is why your moderator deletes my simple comment.
I guess it is the guy who received his education free of charge, at the expense of the community.
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Atul says: June 09, 2009 at 12:52 AM IST
Well, someone finally wrote about something that is deemed very normal in India, although i bet these fairness cream companies are not hiring fair people only or you don't beat up a person just because he is dark skinned..
What is happening in Australia is way different I wouldn't say it is racism but the Australians in general think that the Indians are taking over their country and probably their jobs and they feel threatened....
I mean I'm not pleading their case or saying what they are doing is right,in my opinion it is absolutely shameful and barbaric but in such bad economic times people are scared and make some stupid decisions...
My condolences go out to the family's who have lost someone important and my advice to the people who are facing similar problems in other parts of the world is come back to your homeland where you were born because you owe your life to your country.....
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rajesh says: June 09, 2009 at 12:58 AM IST
Jug, I agree with you a 100%. I am a South Indian living in California, and when I look back on how deeply racial/caste/colour prejudice is ingrained in our Indian culture, there can be no doubt that we Indians are as racist as any backward society on earth. It is sad to see educated and intelligent Indian parents desperately hunting for fair-skinned brides/grooms for their child, so as to ensure their grandchildren will not be dark skinned and cause them to lose prestige in the narrow-minded society they inhabit.
The racial attacks on the Indian students are reprehensible and requires a slumbering, head-in-the-sand Aussie society to wake up and confront its inner demons.
But I submit that its time for Indian society to confront and vanquish its racial prejudice as well.
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atul says: June 09, 2009 at 12:58 AM IST
And to the people who say we are hypocrites and we are the worst country, learn to respect your country and educate yourself...
You cannot have a perfect life or a perfect country do something about it instead of wining about it..
Peace out fellow Indians...
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un.... says: June 09, 2009 at 01:00 AM IST
I think, He is wright in many of his terms...
We have to see first our own Dish for bugs
rather pointing to others...
I am in Germany and i see this every time...
Indian people helping only the people from their state and they make groups...
When i meet indians in train or something the first question will be... are u indian...?
and then comes the best one..
which state you are from??
then if it doesn't match with his one then its
the end...
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S G says: June 09, 2009 at 01:02 AM IST
What a pitiful article on a serious issue as recism. The author's discussion on anecdotal experiences of prejudices surrounding fairness, origin, language is a six year olds perspective of racism. While the proven existence of this trivia does cause discriminatory and traumatic experiences at times; it is never a core social phenomenon that is a central belief. In India, caste is the closest to racism. The beleif in caste is core, central and lead to wars, bloodshed and widespread discrimination and abuse that is not anecdotal. Our politics revolve around caste.
Dont get me wrong. The discriminatory practices are not fair and indeed should be addressed. But it is not a core war like racism and casteism. Calling someone a 'Gujju' is not racism. It is banter and yes may be done well without. But you cant complain that no having a few fungus infected bread slices is the same thing as the hunger striken famine. Thats utterly ridiculous.
Indians are NOT racist. Period. They may have surfacial perferences, but always supercede with value. THAT is why we have leaders from backward communities, THAT is why we have women working in all sector. IT is not a perfect world and we have a lot of problems to face ...but we are not racist.
Mr. Author...please find some self esteem.
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Dinesh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:04 AM IST
I dont agree completely. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I think at least I have not heard that we indians stabbed or harmed 10 african students in spate of a month here in india. I agree that we are racists but I disagree that we are more racists than australians or that we deserve whats going on in australia. Calling people names is not racism, it could be just innocent fun. If it was racism all the time then my god i am a racist even to myself as i often refer to myself and my friends here in maharashtra as ghatis.
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Sid says: June 09, 2009 at 01:13 AM IST
When all this is over in Australia Shall we as Indians learn anything from it at all ? Shall we take a pledge not to discriminate Marathis from Biharis ? If the incidents in Australia is really racism(I doubt it is) Can I ask Indians travelling abroad to be a little more civic in their senses. Indians abroad have a weird tendency to become more Indian in foreign lands. They do not respect the local food,culture and traditions.Fact is they do not even take interest in them and pass the judgement that they are worthless compared to the Indian context.
Ther congregate amongst themselves on weekends ,watch Hindi movies and programs (as if there is nothing else in the world) and talk about the greatness of their country ridiculing local customs and traditions.Their friend are only Indians,they only go to Indian restaurants,and Indian run Pubs and discos and reaconly timesof India.They keep themselves so preoccupied with themselves that they hardly have a talking point when it comes to interacting with the locals because they have no idea whatz happening around them.All they ace about is the money and the green card.
I have seen people who immigrated 20 years ago and still behave the same.The Chinese,Greeks etc on the other hand have integrated beautifully wherever they have immigrated.You have to see to believe it.People commenting here are mostly Indians from India rest of them are the ones living abroad whom I just described above. I think Mr.Jug has done a great job in this article.
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Dinesh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:14 AM IST
Unfortunately most of what you said is true. But thats still not an excuse for students being killed in Australia in the name or racism.
Racism is in human nature and CANNOT be eliminated, its here to stay with the human race in some form or other. All we can hope is that loss of life, due to this stupidity, stays at minimum.
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M. Bhaskar Rao says: June 09, 2009 at 01:14 AM IST
It is surprising that the author of this article is no aware of the facts. The caste system in India was a thing of the past. It was a social evil and we have overcome it.
Indians are being discriminated everywhere. Even at work, a European or an American doing a similar job gets a fatter check and additional perks. I work in a Greek company and others ranked below me get a higher pay check only because they are Greeks. I mustered the courage and wrote to the MD of the company. 9 months have gone by but there is just no signs of these things coming to an end. One thing I do agree is the fact that Indians do look down upon themselves. Let us not do it. Stand united even in the face of the worst adversity. Jai Hind and Jai Universal brotherhood
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ashok gupta says: June 09, 2009 at 01:15 AM IST
Well said. Having lived in Canada and US, I'd say Indians are equally prejudiced.
How many successful film actors and actresses are 'dark' skin?
Why is King Khan peddling cream to ligten one's skin color on TV?
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pankaj wala says: June 09, 2009 at 01:16 AM IST
Jaggu dada shut up for the sake of helpless Indian students in Australia.
Indian students in Australia need undivided support. Stop lecturing India on racism - more on this later.
Its been a long since you been a student.
These students have gone to Australia to become somebody someday.
What is at stake is their youth, aspirations, their faith that they were living in an equal-opportunity (austalia) soceity, the money they or their parents spent or are spending for their education.
Imagine bearing the brunt police in foreign land. These students have guts to rally about this issue in foreign land.
They are young, probably clueless and certainly helpless (thanks to people like you) when whole australian government machinery is trying stiffle their concerns.
Whenever there is international incident like this, people like you try to undermine/hurt the unity of Indians.
About the content of your article --
What is the point of this article anyway? To make Indians feel like a buch of loosers?
Do you have any sense of responsibility towards country and journalism?
Did you forget that some of the Indian students are fighting for their life in foreign land?
What is wrong in calling Punjabi a Panju, a Bangali a Bong or whatever. This is just a slang evolved with time. Gujaratis themselves called them gujjus and Malyali's themselves called them mallus.
In diverse society like us, what is wrong with calling each ethnic group differently. Otherwise how would you differentiate for the sake of communication - cultures, customs and traditions.
If I invite a Gujju family to my home for dinner and cook gujju 'kadhi' for them will it look racist?
Indian society is evolving for better. Slowly, but happening. We can't expect 1billion people to change overnight. If you can't see that, may be you should step away from your laptop and see the real India by stepping outside.
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Rahul says: June 09, 2009 at 01:22 AM IST
Jagu,
Trust me..if a Aussi racist thug finds you alone in a ally..he will beat the elitist smugness out of you in a hurry..your supposed non-racism will not save you white, brown or whatever skin you have.
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Rohit V says: June 09, 2009 at 01:27 AM IST
good article and well executed, but personally i guess that the author doesn't realise that in this heat of moment this wasn't the right time for him to come out with such realism. i live in melbourne and atleast i can see that now my fellow countryfolks over here are united and integrated. These kind of article even though depicts the true scenario to a large extent shouldn't be brought in at this point of time, specially when we need support from our people. I would have appreciated this article a lot if this would have been published at some other period of time but not now.
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Vish says: June 09, 2009 at 01:28 AM IST
Jeet,
It's all about color in India.
There was an incident few years back, where Africans were denied entry to a pub in Coloba, Mumbai, because of their color.
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pawan says: June 09, 2009 at 01:31 AM IST
hey jug...sitting is ac room and passing comment is easy. just go out there and you will know whats real picture. well i m a great fan of Gandhi but if some one is giving me slap i would be the last person on earth to take the next one i would rather punch him two on his face. i guess u i need to remind u his famous words " paap karna bura hai .. lekin paap sahna usse bhi bura hai"..
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Pawan Kumar Singh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:37 AM IST
I totally agree with Jug, we have seen this last year in Maharashtra, the happened in Assam where Biharis were beaten up and sent out of state. Tamils always hate guys from other state and then they say they are proud of being a tamilian. What kind of pride is it in which you discriminate between human beings. Mr Damodar P.Shetty why are you taking dictionary meaning of word castesim and racesim, they are just word which are used in different context but with same end result. Both of them lead to hatred among fellow human being, so i think Jug is not at all wrong in saying whatever he said. One more thing you said castesim has been practiced in India science ages but isn't it true what is being practiced from past are not always good. So, I really feel very sad that we indians are more racist than anyone else in world.
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Rameez says: June 09, 2009 at 01:37 AM IST
dear jug,
I hvnt seen such a poor argument b4, i can only laugh. I am a student in US and basically in the same shoes as these indian students in Australia. But i havnt faced ne sort of racism and no wonder indians flock to USA. I alwaz somehow knew that australians are racist and they cannot stand dark skinned people.
I agree with JEET.
Australians have the theory which you are talking about, they are sons of criminals and they are proving it themselves.
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Mr James Bond says: June 09, 2009 at 01:40 AM IST
Living in US I can tell you Indians do not have a good image here despite of being educated. Indians are disliked because all they think about money, money, and more money. They go to different countries and pretend and act they are living in India. They do not try to learn anything good from different culture. Indians dress inappropriately, they smell bad, and are inconsiderate to others. I have witnessed Indians pushing a handicapped person from the line so they can get ahead of them. I was tempted to tell them to leave America and go back to India. Indians (i am sorry but especially south Indians) dress inappropriately even Pakistanies are dressed very smartly and very westernised in America. They smell bad and never heard of deodrants despite of cooking garlic food at their food. I used to have a class right after Masters class in India and man that class smell like spice class. It almost seems like they have not taken shower in months. It is embarrasing for rest of us Indians who take steps to assimilate themselves in a new culure. I seriouly think western countries should not give visa to Indians who acts as if they are living in India. Irony is Chinese/Nepalies/other Asian countries/middles easters do not act that way and are very much respected in America. But Indians, they are whole another species. Indians need to grow up or just need to stay in their villages.
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Roohi Kanpuria says: June 09, 2009 at 01:43 AM IST
Dear Sir,
Yes we do have problems in india a chamaar boy can not marry the thakur girl.Often low caste girls are paraded naked in villages for having affairs.thakur community,baniya community,pandit community,brahmin community,chamar community,jatav community,sikh community,christian community,muslim community and within these group there are hundreds of castes and gotra.We basically stink.our police most of the time harass rickshaw pullars and roadside labours and lick rich people.govt. departments are sooo corrupt that without paying bribe u cannot do anything.this has created a big disparity in money distribution.Tell me you indians how man of you can have a food on same table with rickshaw pullar.no one.I think there should be minimum wage criteria to destroy disparity.I am myself a victim of racism,I could not marry a guy coz he was christian.I think when ever indians get chance they try to exploit their position.Its enough we should stop that.Even pakistan is better than india atleast nobody burn churches and destroy temples and masjids or kill sikhs.
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dipanka says: June 09, 2009 at 01:59 AM IST
Completely agree with Jug Suraya. We do need to eliminate discrimination in India as well. Pointing out racism in India does not diminish the problem in Australia. Instead, I think the timing is perfect to discuss discrimination in our own society, which is way more pervasive. Forget the semantics, as a society we have more discrimination than anywhere else in the world: dark skinned versus light skinned, master versus servant, "high" (!) caste versus "low"(!) caste, gender bias, female foeticide and infanticide, the works.
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B. Shah says: June 09, 2009 at 02:05 AM IST
This is so true ....
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jackie says: June 09, 2009 at 02:06 AM IST
hi fellow indians,
first clean ur own house.. fight the caste system
then fight against racism..
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Jay says: June 09, 2009 at 02:08 AM IST
All this is called Discrimination. Unfortunately, us Indian are very abd at it. As soon as you board a plane to India, you notice this. Fair skin(white) passengers are given that service with smile. You come out of the plane and your experience starts straight away. Anyway, being discriminated in other contries does not hurt as much as it hurts being discriminated by your own people and that again in your own country.
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overseas says: June 09, 2009 at 02:10 AM IST
All I would say is whatever shortcomings we have in India it does not justify the violence against Indians in Australia. The violence should stop. Period. This is the time to stand up united and not bring up our weaknesses. They will be time and opportunity for this issue in India. Not at this moment when we have to stand together for sufferings of Indians in Australia. Cheers.
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An Indian says: June 09, 2009 at 02:14 AM IST
So by this logic...
Rape happens in India
Therefore any foreigner is free to rape an Indian????
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Ajit B.Lal says: June 09, 2009 at 02:17 AM IST
Hi there,
Firstly, I,d like to say Hello!,to all my friends in New Delhi, Manish,anshul,prithvi,maitri,palak,poonam,Ravi,rohan and Samraat,Guys I am rocking here in New Zealand.and pumping iron to nutralise any racist attack in here.Please do not entertain any aussie as even people hate them in new zealand.these vulnerable indian toads come here to study to make their career,I hav seen these aussies openly attack anybody who is brown,black and asian.
The best way is to ignore them in IPL.People here think that IPL is cash lady, its better to pay indians rather than foreigners.I have noticed many times those soft indian Toads are commented.Once some guys shouted at me and I chased them, they ran away cowardly.Next time they come close.........
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Daniel says: June 09, 2009 at 02:20 AM IST
Well. I agree, Though we are Educated we still follow racism with casteism, Though we literally dont Beat up People But we do know how to degrade any Community, Compartmentlize Sections of people, We cant deny the fact that Racism is prevalent all over the World. So Be it India, UK, US, Australia, Racism still exists and will be so. Why dont the Rich send their Children to local Schools, Or Even proper Private schools, Its all about how much Money and status we have in this Soceity, I hope people get to know that colour is Only Skin deep, The Bible says Man look at the Outward appearance But "GOD" looks in at the Heart. In conclusion we first have to change the way we think and then we would see the changes around, Its not going to take Debates, Punishments, Laws to change Racism, We our selves have to change.
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Atul says: June 09, 2009 at 02:22 AM IST
U R very Indian. Start blaming ur own countrymen than finding a solution to Oz problem. I agree India do have some racist element but we dont bash people because of their caste color or religion. India is a great country and perfect example of secularism. Sikh is PM, Muslim was President in a country where 80 % population is Hindu. 6 of our 11 playing eleven cricket players are non hindus. We R SEcular and should be proud of it. Jai Hind..
Atul ( Melbourne).
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dimpa says: June 09, 2009 at 02:26 AM IST
shame on all the austrlains writing in this paper under disguised names.You think allegations of racism and violence against innocent indians will disappear by resorting to such prpagadist tactics ? Not even a million jugsurya can do that.
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abhijeet says: June 09, 2009 at 02:28 AM IST
we may be racists at some level implicitly but we never ever go around stabbing people , what certain australian people are showing is insecurity , ingnorance and xenophobia.
abhi
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NAveen says: June 09, 2009 at 02:36 AM IST
Completely Agree with you, When Shilpa Shetty was racially abused in Big Brother people stood by her side and made her win, but many people won't know same Shilpa shetty might be abusing(not by physical voilence, but thru her actions) fellow indian on basis of Color, Caste and Social Status.
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Gaurav says: June 09, 2009 at 02:44 AM IST
I wonder sometimes why we Indian always criticize ourself of being more racist when such things are happening out there. I can't say we are clean. However, instead of being critice ourself at this point of time, it would be better if we could help out someway to those victims in Aus. Such blogs would only encourage those whites to do such pity things. I don't think we Indians go out and bash brutally any white for no reason. We make fun of our own people but never touch them. Inspite of multi-cultured environment, the ratio of happening this kinda things is very low in India. SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SENSELESS. Instead of writing these blogs.. Please write something which help students who have gone out there. Wanna criticize, then criticize their govt and police who is not helping them. Whatever India is.. Its still much better than any country in the WORLD.
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nitin walia says: June 09, 2009 at 02:48 AM IST
Mr. Suraiya,
Irrespective of what you wrote is correct or not …I didn’t at all understand the relevance of your article “We're even more racist than Aussies” in the ongoing context of attacks on Indians students in Australia.
From what I understand is, ARE you trying to justify the attacks on Indian students. Are you saying to fellow Indians that we can’t complain about racism in Australia (where we are victims) because we ourselves are racist people????
I don’t think it’s your fault, but your whole generation is infused with self-pity, lack of confidence and being satisfied with bronze medals (I apologize for being blunt). People of your generation come from a poor and backward India with embedded slavery in their mindset, in contrast my generation (I am 30 yrs old) comes from a nation with nuclear technology, with one of the fastest growing economy in the world and 200 television channels. We don’t want to be part of Non-aligned Movement; a spiritually rich but materialistically poor country ….My generation is demanding, aggressive and confident and doesn’t consider travelling to US, UK or Australia as luxury. So please leave your ‘always blaming yourself’ attitude and start learning behaving like an “arrogant Indian” …yes that what we want to be!
Can you imagine what would have happened if a French, British or an American would have been attacked in some other country? I can guarantee that Obama would have personally called Australian prime minister and made a huge deal out of it.
Mr. Suraiya …why can’t we Indians be demanding and ask for what is rightfully ours. We are sending billions of dollars to Australia through tuition fees …I would say we should EXPECT a special treatment from that country not being attacked like dogs.
Generally, I would have ignored such blog/article but when I say you’re Name as a writer, I was totally taken back and was forced to write such a long and harsh worded response
Best
Nitin
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Not2bnamed says: June 09, 2009 at 02:53 AM IST
You are sick! Your article is similar to the British act which divided our country - Same on authors like you - Experience the reality and write the facts - I can smell from your article that you are trying to grab the attention rather than showing the true picture. You talk of India! what happen to ab-originals in Australia? Red - Indians in America!!!!! Jews in Germany!!!!!
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Zohra says: June 09, 2009 at 02:54 AM IST
I agree with the basic assertion that as South Asians we have a fierce tendency to generalize and keep holding to one trait as the key to an entire personality. It isn't surprising thus that we associate fair skin with beauty, power, wealth, intelligence and progress. We also associate blacks with hunger, strife, and poverty. We consider everyone with oriental looks to be Chinese probably because they are closest to us? But we're not the only ignorant class here. Americans mean "Chinese" (actually all chinkies) when they say Asians!
My point however is that every population will continue to believe in cliches unless proven otherwise. Americans have had a violent history that has led them to a time now when they are mostly tolerant. A majority of white states in central America however continue to be prejudiced and that is primarily because of their ignorance.
India never has experienced a time when Indians have lived with whites and blacks in comparable numbers where whites have not been the rulers. Australia is undergoing that time now when they are forced to live with these people who are different and yet subservient but trying to be equals. The insecurities are bringing about the violence.
Globalization and the spread and distribution of races around the world are bound to make locals uncomfortable especially when a race believed to be inferior for generations comes and demands a place as equals. These cycles are normal and so are Indians. I don't believe that as Indians we have any more of a tendency to be racist than any other. It is unfair to say based on local reactions to fair and dark and the reactions to a sprinkling of white or black tourists that we are actually racist. Until Indians all get a fair chance to be exposed to the kind of racial diversity existing in US, UK or Australia I would hold judgment on whether Indians are actually racist. Lets just say Indians easily believe in cliches and that is definitely not the same as being racist!
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Tamil says: June 09, 2009 at 03:00 AM IST
Racial abuses are BAD. Indians are Racists. Both are true.
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shri says: June 09, 2009 at 03:06 AM IST
A cheap propaganda by racist Australians. It is so obvious from comments. a dozen faceless idiots sitting in some stinky basements are writing thee letters.
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shen d says: June 09, 2009 at 03:08 AM IST
Couldn't Agree More. Very well articulated reality
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Deepak Tyagi says: June 09, 2009 at 03:22 AM IST
Hi i don't completely agree with Jug , I think the root cause is that Indians lack self respect. We don't respect ourselves so people anywhere in the world do the same. If you observe carefully then you will see how people in india behave as soon as they see white skin. I have noticed that we consider then above us , this could be a due to the fact that we were a British colony for so long. We still think they are superior to us. Second thing is we are not UNITED. If one of us get beaten , we think thank god it was not us. This is main reason we treated this way everywhere in the world let it be Oz, england, or even Isreal
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Priyank Yadav says: June 09, 2009 at 03:33 AM IST
I myself am a part of it,I am in Ireland and am reading it.To be very honest haven't had a racist experience to that extent apart from my in-laws who accepted me but could not tell the society to whic caste I belong to so it's very much true., I have been wholeheartedly accepted in a alien country then my own countrymen my relatives in-laws, pity me
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Tarang says: June 09, 2009 at 03:35 AM IST
Totally irrelevent argument made by pseduo intellectual of India. These are not individual incidents of violence, it is getting more and more systematic. Have you asked why chinese students are not attacked? Because there will be uniform response from them. Here we will have these so called talking heads always justifying anything wrong with some nonsense arguments.
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jugnu sharma says: June 09, 2009 at 03:37 AM IST
Jug suraiya ,may be yes may be no but I ask you if this is the right time to ask this question?Are you paid by the Australian government or what?Dont try to divert the attention from the current scenario.
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Anan says: June 09, 2009 at 03:44 AM IST
Instead of advocating for extending help to our fellow citizens abroad who are clearly being discriminated against and marginalized, this author perpetuates the stigma of the feeble disposition often assigned to Indians abroad by advocating we reform our own society in response to problems instigated by other races upon Indians. Way to show courage and stand up for Indian dignity, Mr. Suraiya!
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Navin Pathak says: June 09, 2009 at 03:46 AM IST
Media is to be blamed to certain extent as well. BAN all the ads in India that talks of having fair skin with use of some cream OR atleast boycott them. I remember some bollywood actors were endorsing some of these ads......IDIOTS.
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AD says: June 09, 2009 at 03:47 AM IST
come on.. its time to get united with our fellow indians and help them the way we can. Stop writing such articles at this time.. this is not the right time to express such views...
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Ruvbalkish says: June 09, 2009 at 03:52 AM IST
Most North Indians in USA are desperate to marry caucasian women and will do anyhting to achieve it - these North Indians are color conscious and are racists in that regard
Most of the abused in australia are Sikhs and Punjabis, and they are getting ataste of their own medicine - Tamil brahmins in Tanmilnadu are punihsed by DMK and AIDMK with caste quotas, and Tamils in karnataka are attacked by Kanndigas for not speaking Tamil
so, Indians are biggest racists
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Abhijit says: June 09, 2009 at 03:53 AM IST
I agree with our fascination for color. Only difference between racism and our fascination is we don't kill people for being black.
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Vijay says: June 09, 2009 at 03:56 AM IST
Instead of advocating for extending help to our fellow citizens abroad who are clearly being marginalized, this author perpetuates the stigma of the feeble disposition often assigned to Indians abroad by advocating we reform our own society in response to problems instigated by other races upon Indians. Way to show courage and stand up for Indian dignity, Mr. Suraiya!
We as a people have faced discrimination in Fiji, Australia and many other places in recent times. If we don't take any action, who is to stop these and other people from discriminating against us in the future? It's time to have some courage and show these people that if you mess with us, then there will be consequences!
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Aashish Sharma says: June 09, 2009 at 03:57 AM IST
People feel proud to take their country name isnt that a differentiation between human race.
Be creative Jug Surya you are one of those guy who would like to gain attention / popularity by creating controversies. You are no different then people who just talk and do no good.
Its just handful of people who believe in all this racism and casteism issues and people like them exist in all parts of the world. What we need to do is just discourage them by means of strict laws.
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RB says: June 09, 2009 at 04:03 AM IST
I agree with every word of it. Thank you, Mr Suraiya.
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manav says: June 09, 2009 at 04:04 AM IST
Mr. Jug:
You wrote: "Whether 'caste' - a result of cultural and social segmentation - can legitimately be conflated with 'race' - with its genetic and physiological underpinnings - is a matter of academic debate."
Two rejoinders:
First, if you do engage in such a conflation, you are proving yourself to be ignorant. Caste and Race are two different categories of differentiation. Caste is, at the core, economic. Race is at the core genetic.
Second, I assume you are a well read man. Given that you have bothered to write this blog should imply that you have read corresponding blogs and articles that have recently appeared in the Australian media. Therein you would have noticed the level of ignorance about India and specifically, of the caste system - something that you err on as well!
Lastly, sure India exhibits casteism. Sure India exhibits regionalism. Sure, India exhibits differentions based on language and a host of other markers. But, and this is the key point, that occurs INDISE India and is our very legitimate and urgent problem to deal with. The point of the attacks on the Indian students in Australia is that whoever, for whatever reason, is attacking these students are attacking Indian nationals and it is that specific issue that we must stand united as Indians against.
Oh...and one other point - can you name me one god from the Indian pantheon who is dark-skinned yet revered by millions? Its Krishna of course dummy! Forget about Sonam Kapoor's 'get white' skin cream advert for a second will ya?
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manav says: June 09, 2009 at 04:11 AM IST
OK...you really want to write about a controversial angle to the recent incidents in Australia...here is one FALSE example.
Actually, the attacks on the Indian students in Australia are being perpetrated by Indian intelligence agents. Why? Such that it gives the Indian government a stick to wag at the Australians. Why? Because, even after the Ind0-US Nuclear Deal, the Australians are refusing to sell their uranium to us. They insist we sign the NPT and the CTBT. So, how do these bashings help India diplomatically? By forcing the Australian government to appear weak internationally. Does this make sense? No! But hey..;its sensational alright!
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chirkut says: June 09, 2009 at 04:22 AM IST
let me simplify the logic purported by you and other bloggers
we treat our people bad so its ok for Others(
Oz) to treat us bad
What rubbish...
Indian are uncouth...They mistreat a african or a NEtern bad. Actually they treat any deviation from normal the same way. I used to wear spectacles in my childhood and was treated same.. but there we no racism ...its just lack of civility...
"chitti chamri" will go away with time...its a remanant of British raj and association of eurpoean with money.
Also there is a difference between racism and preferences...i might like fair skin...many caucasians like tanned skin...
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Yash says: June 09, 2009 at 04:25 AM IST
I am a student studying not studying in India and I dont agree with this article AT ALL. I understand it is embedded in an Indian mind to argue both sides of the coin but this is taking it too far in all senses. Mr.Author you have NO FREAKIN IDEA what students studying in other countries go through. So please "please" give that pen some rest when you feel like writing about things you dont know first hand.
There is always some kinda regional unacceptance in EVERY country, comparing that with racism is so ignorant. Do you even know what racism feels like? Do you think dark north indians vs fair north indians is racism?
Do you really think it takes a racist to catch another? It can take hit anybody by anytime.
I used to enjoy your dubyaman cartoons and other literary pieces, but after reading this... ummmm I dont think your such a learned guy after all. You have lost my respect.
MANN, such an insensitive piece of writing with no sense of reality.
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Mehul says: June 09, 2009 at 04:25 AM IST
I fully agree that Oz is not racist in any nature compare to India.. (apne ateeth ke aayne main jaakh kar dekho) and sometimes i feel ashamed of my self.// and one more thing is that there is a fine line between reporting and provoking and Indian Media has crossed that line.
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Aditya says: June 09, 2009 at 04:26 AM IST
@joy: "we don't beat up people for being mallu or whatever"...you clearly have not lived in bombay
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An actual "proud to be indian" indian says: June 09, 2009 at 04:44 AM IST
Sir Jug "I am holier than thou" Suraiya,
I hope you understand there is a difference between putting a matrimonial ad about the kind of life partner you want and actually going ahead and hitting/physically assualting/killing another human being in the name of race. I am not defending the fact that"fairness" is preferred in marriage choices, which they clearly are in india, but the fact that you are using it as a counterexample is something I am totally unable to comprehend. I hope you can rationalize the difference between a life partner choice and causing another person bodily harm. In case you cannot, I suggest you stop reading further.
The level of racism that you are referring goes on all the time all around the world. The majority of people do and will always have a basic fear of the unknown. It is the reason why you do not go into a party with unknown individuals and tell the same jokes you tell your friends for 50 years. These particular incidents are so publicized because young people are actually being injured and killed. Please do not belittle the issue by comparing it to individual preferences.
Sorry for writing such a long article, but the main reason I have such a strong negative opinion about this article is because once again, when something wrong is happening to us indians, you would rather rationalize and blame ourselves than the aggressor. You are the husband who blames his wife when another man misbehaves with her for wearing a provocative dress, you are the father who blames his child when he comes back and tells you the teacher slapped him in school, you are the reason we were under imperialist rule for 200 years. I pray to you from the bottom of my heart that please,please, please dont write and spread these ideas that promote low national self esteem otherwise we might have to face 200 more years of imperialism. There are wrong and right things in every culture and things take time to improve.
Please,Please,Please,Please.
Jai Hind
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asish says: June 09, 2009 at 05:01 AM IST
I completely agree with Jug.. I know what exactly has prompted this kinda attack. We Indian wherever we go, we try to make our community and stay confined in that so much that we build a little India everywhere. We make no efforts to reach out to the locals.Instead what we should be trying is to learn the local culture, mix with them, extend friendship.I can tell you this based on my own experience and what I have seen abroad. I have lived 5 year in Europe and south east asia and traveled extensively.Everywhere I found the same attitude.We are the best and out culture is the best.Yes it is true but when you are in a foreign country you should also be trying to embrace part of their culture and behave accordingly.I guess this is what all those students have sworn by when they faced graduate admission committee.
Dark skin do not fare well in India.This is eternal truth.But this is not the reason of OZ treatment to Indian student.Living inside the Indian cocoon in the campus is the reason.Have you asked questions why student are being attacked.Try to get them involved in your social events and get involved in theirs.Problem will be solved.Take it from me.Don't create your little india wherever you go.
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George Rozario says: June 09, 2009 at 05:03 AM IST
The writer has brought the issue at the best time. Though it seems like a diversion from the 'real' issue in Australia, if we dont look at ourselves at this juncture we would never do it.
Still we Indians have to grow up a lot when it comes to accepting people from diff states speaking different languages. I know a businessman from Tamilnadu who has to always hide his ethnicity when he travels to interior Karnataka. In turn, Malayalees are called names in Tamilnadu, a 'malayalathan' is typically an untrustworthy person in popular Tamilnadu belief. Similarly a 'Pandi' (slur for tamils, used by malayalees) is never treated equal by malayalees. (Me being of south indian origin, these are the ones i'm familiar with, i'm sure there are such differences among north indians too). Just yesterday one of my Marathi friends was telling me she never liked south indians ( of course, except me). After more than 60 yrs of independence, we really need to grow up. Let us as Indians stand united and fight the racism in Australia against our folks. Hats off to the author.
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sngt says: June 09, 2009 at 05:11 AM IST
the look of India which u r presenting is changing i agree not completely. now people of all casts & colors uses to go & sit together in public transport like buses & trains. why only bcoz of few people blaming whole India.I agree there are different word for different casts & colors even then so many different religions, casts,status are living together. India is the biggest democracy in the world.living in India & writing against it "it happens only in India". no where media prints against if do they do it in small corner. that's why India's small mistakes look BIG & other counteries BIG look small.
Now the fault is of aus then why are u pulling leg of India. should we not speak if treated unfairly bcoz racism is in India also? Also if we are beaten in Australia we should blame it as result of Indian racism Mr Jug.
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Shane D'Souza says: June 09, 2009 at 05:17 AM IST
Racism cannot be pinned down to any nation or nationality. It's an individual demon. Racism is an inferiority complex suffered by people having identity issues, lack of self esteem and self confidence.This is both ways the abuser and the person who looks at everything from a narrow racial prospective{indians{due to our past history}} I have been in Aussy and NZ for the last 10 yrs. My advice to all indians"When in rome live like the romans". Over the year we have seen racial abuse al over the world, including india thisis because indians lack community skills. Most forigners only have issues with indians on the way we live in their country and not who we are{race}. Indian by nature are always complaining. Most indians tell their counterpart.. this is nothing in india we do this... and aussy{or anyother counrty} is nothing compare to india... if someone said it abt india we would be first to say racisim.... So what is this?
shane
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sandeep says: June 09, 2009 at 05:24 AM IST
"It's because we are so racist ourselves that we are so quick to react to a racist slur: it takes a racist to catch a racis"
And so the author is a racist.
There are some evil ppl in every country. We must check the number of such ppl. Considering the population ratios, I don't think we gotta blame India alone. Blame the one who introduced such a thing.
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Rashmi says: June 09, 2009 at 05:42 AM IST
Mr Jug,
I'm sure you are in India at this time and not spent a significant time outside the country. It is very evident that people who have disagreed with you are either out of the country facing the trauma or have someone out there facing it. These small difference that you have mentioned with in our country between states exist in every country on this planet. It is human nature to consider one self superior than others. I have lived in US for 5 years and I have seen how the western US ridicules the south and how the south ridicules the east. Their accents are mocked upon, their dressing sense is mocked upon their food is mocked upon. You see these thing every where. So, it ultimately boils down to the point how you treat international people in your country?
There are Indian students murdered brutually in most of the foreign countries,if we look within we will see there are no such cases, where there is a murder of an international immigrant on a regular basis. I agree we did have a few cases but you can count them on your fingers. Indians by nature are very soft and accommodative people we do not beat up and kill people, we value lives which I deeply respect and extremely proud off.
I would really appreciate if you could please research on the topic before writing it out on a major newspaper. More over Indians in India should have more self esteem and not support such thoughts. We did have caste problems, may be we still do but the solution lies in rectifing problems and not blaming ourselves, that only brings down our self-rspect. We need to raise and start respecting oneself first rather than riculing. All the people who have agreed with Mr Jug, I have a question for you, how many of you have made a decision not to be a part of castism? How many of you have decided to go out and make a friend of a different caste or region or color? It is easy to type comments but it is difficult to act.
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SydneyGirl says: June 09, 2009 at 05:53 AM IST
In the Indian colour scheme of things, black is far from beautiful. The colloquial word for a black person of African origin is 'habshi', an epithet as offensive as the American 'nigger', both terms derived from the days of the slave trade.
For all India's official championing of the anti-apartheid crusade in South Africa's erstwhile white regime, north India at least is steeped in colour prejudice - ask any African student who's had a taste of Delhi's campus life. For the north Indian, fair is lovely, as those abominably tasteless TV commercials keep proclaiming: Don't get sunburnt, use skin whitening creams, or you'll end up dark and no one will marry you. (When did you last see a matrimonial ad seeking an 'attractive, dark-complexioned life partner'?)
Why is dark literally beyond the pale for so many of us? Is it an atavistic throwback to the supposed superiority of 'white' Aryans vis-a-vis the 'non-white' original inhabitants of the subcontinent? Is it the result of 250 years of white rule under the British? Is a pale skin, as against a deep tan, a testimonial to social rank, segregating those who don't have to toil under the sun from those who do? Is it an amalgam of all these?
Whatever the reason, 'chitti chamri' (fair skin) is a passport to fawning social acceptance -- which might partly explain why an increasing number of Caucasians look for assignments in India, be it as MNC executives or bartenders in 5-star hotels.
Our racism is largely, but not exclusively, based on colour. Caste is India's unique contribution to the lexicon of racial bigotry. Whether 'caste' - a result of cultural and social segmentation - can legitimately be conflated with 'race' - with its genetic and physiological underpinnings - is a matter of academic debate. However, as only too many horror stories testify, the average rural Dalit fares worse on the human-rights scale than her 'kafir' counterpart in the worst days of South African apartheid.
Caste apart, real or imagined ethnic traits compound our racism. People from the north-east are said to have 'Chinky' (Chinese) eyes and are routinely asked if they eat dogs. Even in so-called 'mainstream' India we sub-divide ourselves with pejoratives: 'Panjus', whose only culture is agriculture; stingy 'Marrus'; mercenary 'Gujjus' who eat 'heavy snakes' for tea; lazy, shiftless 'Bongs'; 'Madrasis', who all live south of the Vindhyas and speak a funny 'Illay-po' language. In our ingrained provincialism is our much-vaunted and illusory unity.
No wonder we can't stand racism. It reminds us disquietingly of the face we see in our own mirror.
PUBLIC COMMENTS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well Said... so true..
Just assume if we had africans or dark skinned people in mainstream india, do u think we would let them live normally??
I guess western countries r a lot more nicer that india in tolerance levels...
Even if u you cant digest it, you must accept the fact that india is after all a third world country.. you cannot except people to give u respect like people frm the first world country get...
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SG says: June 08, 2009 at 12:38 PM IST
I agree. The way we treat our own countrymen is appalling. The way we treat our own kind for colour of their skin goes against all decency, and anyone who has had the sad experience of seeing how N-E students, foreign students (esp. Africans) are called names and tormented would know what we are capable of. Not that is excused the Australians (who have always been racist under the guise of being honest about their feelings), but it is time we look at ourselves. What's the point in calling a pot black when...
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Mathew K M says: June 08, 2009 at 12:42 PM IST
There are areas in Tamil Nadu where Dalits can’t go. There are temples and public wells where Lower casts are prohibited. Go to Kerala, where you can find many politicians following Marxism preferring only their in-laws from own (upper community)! So we can’t complain about curry bashing when we can’t treat our own people equally!
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ram says: June 08, 2009 at 12:44 PM IST
Mr .Jug Suraiya where are you now in this world. If you are in Indian and posted this coloumn, then come out to Australia , UK etc and face the real racism. I think you completly lost what you want to express here. Shame.
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Parvinder Singh says: June 08, 2009 at 12:50 PM IST
I agree with most of your points and would like to highlight what you missed (may be intentionaly to be politically correcct). I think simplest example of this is to see what Marathi people do to Bihari's or how Tamilian is treated in Kannada state and ofcourse how north Indian is treated in South India or vice-versa. I mean this is not racism than what and it proves again and again that India is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to racism.
Also through my comment I want to ask "Times Now" why they can dedicate 60% of their shows for incidents in Australia and not even 20% to what happens in Mumbai or in Mangalore pubs. Why can't they do similar follow ups with home ministry or state ministry here what they are doing with Australian government.
I know everybody feels bad when you get into their country; do jobs that what they were supposed to be doing; living a life which they cannot being from their own country......but before going and cribbing about outside world there is a serious need to look inside and correct things.
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sanju says: June 08, 2009 at 12:51 PM IST
We are certainly more racist.I have lived abroad and seen some racism but the extent of ageism I have seen in India is hundred times of racism I have seen abroad.
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Dawn says: June 08, 2009 at 12:52 PM IST
I totally agree with you Jug
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Rohan says: June 08, 2009 at 12:52 PM IST
Brilliant observation, we're one of the most hypocritical nations on earth and don't have the courage to look within and see how we've rotted as a civilization. Only by looking within can we start bringing about big change.
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Rohit Pant says: June 08, 2009 at 12:54 PM IST
Hi...this is very true.Racists attacks on Indians is really sad but as pointed out we too have to make sure that such issues do not crop up in our motherland. Even to this date there is a divide among people hailing from different parts of the country. People hardly seem to respect each other's tradition culture let alone sentiments.
-Rohit
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joy says: June 08, 2009 at 12:56 PM IST
You obviously live in the western world.
Race is racial stock not just colour.
Caste is not based on birth but based on mental make-up and virtuous action.
We may have names for people like chinky etc, but we dont beat up people because omebody is a mallu or maaru-right?. Our anti-racial slur, if there is any, is regional and not racial stock. we all belong to the same racial stock be it a mallu or gujju.
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mike says: June 08, 2009 at 12:56 PM IST
dude stop writing all this point in time, its not worthy. I am in Australia, and can feel the heat whats going around, you should at this point in time, writing about whats going on in Australia, Indian society is changing for good, it will not change overnight.
Raise your voice for the right cause not for just writing your mind anywhere and everywhere.
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ruchit says: June 08, 2009 at 12:57 PM IST
At the end of the day Indians deserve this bashing for being the greatest racists on the planet earth. Caste system is nothing but racism directed by Aryans towards natives of India.
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Avijit says: June 08, 2009 at 12:59 PM IST
Hi Jug,
It was a mind boggling idea you presented. This is not the first time I am experiencing an endangered species like you. Is the matter is so easy to accept for us that any body in the world can do any thing against us and government will stay mum. And people like you dilute the matter like it’s another routine incident of racism. Sorry to say you that please don’t do it. Indians are suffering ....my brothers and sisters are batten in Australia.
Please don’t laugh on them..It’s your blood ...and it’s your responsibility to protect them.
If you cant..Please don’t say some garbage on media.
Thanks,
Avijit
(A MBA student from London)
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Mel Pat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:04 PM IST
Author is right in his perception of our sentiments. I would like to make a note that we as Indian is being attacked and kept suppressed for centuries. Now every one wants justice and that too without using their basic minimum IQ. We need to make our self educate first about strenghts and limitation that we have and then develop a common strategy rather than jumping in band-wagon.
Attraction towards white skin is common with us as we are always wheatish in complexion and different color attracts us more than usual. Black dont attracts us as its been taught for centuries that black is no good. Black is color of doom so no one is attracted towards it. To me it seems that at some point in future whole population of world will become one color and distinction will lost looking to the pace at which people are mixing with each other and among different casts, creeds, religion and nations.
Though saying we are completely racist is not an appropriate comment. We treat most people from all different country very warmly as we learned that 'Atithi Devo Bhavah!" and most of us follow that blindly. Its when we are being overlooked or taunted we change our attitude. It is always true that we can't see our face in boiling water and when we are furious we convert ourself in non-human phenomenon which is perceived as racism.
We as Indian needs nothing else but fair treatment and attitude by keeping in mind that we have to be same what we are expecting.
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Vic says: June 08, 2009 at 01:05 PM IST
Agree 100%.
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Abhi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:05 PM IST
It would be great to stay on the topic of current events rather than deliver a lecture on racism, casteism within India. Unnecessary non sense stuff !!
Have you ever got beaten up abroad ?
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Abid says: June 08, 2009 at 01:06 PM IST
So True :)
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Amogh says: June 08, 2009 at 01:08 PM IST
I dont agree. We dont go about beating up people because they are dark skinned. We do not hold back jobs based on colour. What rubbish are you speaking?
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M S Sastry says: June 08, 2009 at 01:10 PM IST
Don't be such an ignoramus, mr Suraiya. India has never been racist, and will never be. You must be a complete illiterate to equate the caste system with racism.
Secondly, do you have any of your sons or daughters at Melbourne ? Then only you will know what anguish and anxiety are all about.
I have a son there and I am asking him to come back immediately.
Stick to you funny columns - I for one do enjoy reading them. leave your opinions in your toilet.
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Sai says: June 08, 2009 at 01:11 PM IST
Are you asking us to tolerate the current acts of racism in Oz just because there are some racist elements right here in India?
Does it really take a racist to catch a racist? Are you a racist yourself that you explained so well about different forms of racism?
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Rinaldo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:17 PM IST
The uproar over racism incident in Australia is a case of the 'The pot calling the kettle black'. We Indians are the most racist and casteist than any other nation in the whole world.
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Rinaldo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:19 PM IST
The uproar over racism incident in Australia is a case of the 'The pot calling the kettle black'. We Indians are the most racist and casteist than any other nation in the whole world.
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Mark says: June 08, 2009 at 01:20 PM IST
What a brilliant article. I completely agree with you.
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RAJESH VERMA says: June 08, 2009 at 01:20 PM IST
totally disagree with writer views. his research lack many points. he just focused on the points to show racist. but he is not successful. i have not find any of his point is justifible.
writes have "LACK OF KNOWLEDGE" about the different caste and its culture.
writers says "our racism is colour-coded in black-and-white terms"
if this is true. go and check IPL teams and cheerleader irrespective of location. but the players in team having black players also.
we indian consider talent not the black or white color. Bravo, Gayale players from west indies playing with us.
how you stupidily says that we consider color. we consider TALENTS that's true.
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Vaidy says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
I agree. There are other dimensional racisms prevalent in India.
1. Rich Vs Poor
2. Management Vs Labor
3. Politicians Vs People
4. (So called) Upper Caste Vs (So called) Lower Caste
5. Loop Holes in the Law Vs Unfortunate and Hapless People
6. Education Vs Reservation
7. NRI Vs Residents
8. Regional Saviors Vs Open-Minded
So many, Mr.Jug Suraiya. You can keep on thinking about this.
In India, how many sinful souls, raped and/or murdered fellow girls? Robbed fellow citizens? Cheated fellow citizens' belongings? Denied rights to the deserving people in the name of Politics? No one would ever think of these questions.
We do all sorts of sins inside, but we project ourselves as the most cleanliest outside. That's the reality and I have got nothing against my nation or my fellow Indians. Reality is more bitter than one would imagine.
First, build the nation from within with high moral values and World will respond with equal respect. Respect fellow citizens and we will command respect from others.
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Kumar Kale says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
This is our misfortune that we can not do anything to such pseudo writers who write such articles only to grab attention. the issue is: indians are facing racist life threatening attacks in australia! the issue is whether there is rasism rampant in australia. the issue is not whether we are bigger racists than aussies. will a day come when indians like the mr. suraiya stop looking down on his own country and countrymen? this is our misfortune that there is a voice and forum available to persons like suraiya but not to us. this is frustrating.
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Suddha Laik says: June 08, 2009 at 01:21 PM IST
Yeah true , and there's one more quality of us(Indians) . Whenever somebody is speaking for a cause positively , there would be an element who would have to share his plethora of ideas against it . Why does it seem so difficult to stay united for a common cause. It's not a mere topic of dicussion , it's the brutality being meted out to Indian students abroad. C'mmn you can talk of all your ideas after we see that justice is done , can't we ? Is it so difficult for you ?
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Avijit Sett says: June 08, 2009 at 01:23 PM IST
Well Mr. Jur Suraiya, do you consider yourself racist? Or just passing the buck....
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Manoj Saksena says: June 08, 2009 at 01:24 PM IST
"Pointing one finger towards other is pointing four fingers to ourselves' though print and TV media might be slogging aussies for being racist but they are forgetting to mention that we are being returned what we practice. We never complain when we are meted the same treatment by our own people if we travel to another state within our own country.
Aamir khan might not agree with all the blogs posted by the aussies but down within his heart he knows its not untrue.
Why ONLY indians then. Take any country its the indians only who are targeted. a we are not the only hardworking genious asians, chineese are much ahead than us. But Why we only have to suffer. For the simple reason that we are ourselves responsible for our lack of civic sense and absense of mutual respect toward fellow citizens. It doesnt happen in a single day or momrnt. Ask flight attendants of any airline and he/she will have one story about an indian creating scene on board after a drink or two. i have seen people vomiting on thier food trays. I still remember how i had to hold by collar a group of sales persons on an awarded trip to Bangkok who were so abusive and noisy that my infant son couldnt sleep. Even the prostitutes & hotels avoid indian clients becaiuse of thier extreme behaviour. The happenings in autralia is just a small lesson. Though the acts were not at all justified but its better Its better we learn to behave and create goodwill wherever we go.by allowing space to all around us. We travellers and students are the real face of our country and we are the real ambassodors of our own country.
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Balasubramaniam R I says: June 08, 2009 at 01:24 PM IST
I think responsible journalists like Jug Suraiya should desist from raising the same ole topic of Indians are more racist. Hey! If you get kicked on the head and you lie in coma for so many days because of your skin colour or your ethnic background, you will know what it is. Dear Jug, try explaining this nonsense that we are racist to the kids mother or father who gets booted, jeered, petrol bombed and cars torched, because he is a "Bloody Indian". Australian racism is not new so please shut and stay tuned to reality. I do dread the day when a columnist like Jug gets the same verbal and physical abuse when he is Australia. Than he will know whether we Indians are racist or not.
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Indie says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
Message for Avijit -
Mate, I came to Australia as a student 11 yrs ago, and now am well settled here. I have around 15 friends who also came as students and are well settled. We meet the students that are now coming to Australia, many of them from real rural places in India, as it is sooo easy to come to Australia on a student VISA now. You only need about 2 lakhs in Indian currency, and a letter of loan approval from bank undertaking all tution and living expenses (only a letter, not actual loan). Most of the indian students here are coming to do courses in hair dressing and cookery. Who does courses in hair dressing and cookery in India?
All this is just to come here to make money easily, pay off the little fees and get PR. Most of them cant even speak a sentence of english, and their biggest cause of concern and so called suffering is that they cannot find good paying jobs at the moment, everything is too expensive, they cannot afford to pay their fees, living expenses, etc
Hence they are very angry and suffering. Even in the rally in Syndey, most students complained about the 20 hr work restriction that is here in Australia for Inernational students. My question to all indian students coming here is - Are you coming here to study, or just make petty money to send back to India, pay fees and get PR?
In US/UK due to high cost of studies associated with courses, and work restrictions, you get a very good crowd of indian students.
Students who wont even be able to get admission in the worst UNI/COLLEGE in Delhi or Mumbai are coming here to study cookery.
From first day they arrive here, all they are worried about is work. How they can pay off their fees and expenses from day one, start working in an indian restaurant for $6/hr (which is illegal), then they catch trains at midnight/1am in the morning and live in the worst/cheapest suburbs in MElbourne/Sydney to save money.
To be frank, some of them had it coming.
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STEPHEN says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
The guy who wrote this article(is he an aussie?) must read the comments then he will understand what to talk and when.
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Deven says: June 08, 2009 at 01:25 PM IST
Whilst it is true that Indians are obsessed with fair skin, I don't think it is anything to do with Aryan opressing natives etc. Some very handsome and beatiful people in mythology have been described as dark, notably Rama, Krishna and Draupadi. Even in India nowadays beauty depends on complexion and health and I at least do not see any complex in dark people's minds. The change for good is taking place but it will take time. Finally no need to dilute events in Austrailia, whi have shown somewhat haughty (if not violently racist) attitude towards India always, by needlessly focussing on India
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Aby says: June 08, 2009 at 01:26 PM IST
Do you know the foreigners has to pay double charge when flying on domestic airlines in India.
They call it doller pricing.
Isnt that racial ..
Same is the case when we visit national heritage places like Taj or palaces.
I have a Car which has got a KA number plate. I feel the heat when I take the car to other states.. They treat u differently .. They abuse you with more honking or verbal abuse..
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Aurbind says: June 08, 2009 at 01:27 PM IST
Mr Jug,
Thanks for the jug-load of sh!t you penned again! Caste is an "Internal" problem on India, we know and acknowledge that. Throughout the history of our nation, there have been decisive, continuous actions implemented by our government to address this problem.
The problem in Australia is not "Internal", they have theirs with aboriginals. There the issue is the attack on a specific, "foreign" community. You will jump to remind me of crimes against foreign nationals in India. Before you do, there is no pattern you will find where a specific nationality has been attacked! There, Mr Jug, is the distinction between the issues.
As an Indian, we can be the only people who tend to remind ourselves of our own follies, when our countrymen are selectively, helplessly targeted in a far away foreign land. While this is great, and indicative of the great civilization that we are, let's not take away the fast that INDIANS ARE TARGETED. We all must rise and join hands against this, and ensure dignity, safety and freedom for our people, who aren't ordinary Immigrants, but paying community who contribute to the national economy of Australia in a big way.
A proud Delhiwala....friend of Madrasi's, Gujju's, Marathi's .... all who are mine...all who are Indians!
- Aurbind
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Deepak Goel says: June 08, 2009 at 01:30 PM IST
Hi
I am from Singapore, even though we have racism in our own community, atleast we do not assault anyone physically as what is happening in australia.
What do you believe, racism is only at a few places.... I think its a part of everyone life... Just that how wide and open is this. Everyone has preferences for their own group of people for one or another reason, depends how one interpret it.
But what have been happening in Australia for more than a month is really dissappointing and demotivating, and this is even after the so called authorities in Australia have assured for the security of foreign student including Indian students.
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jasmine says: June 08, 2009 at 01:30 PM IST
what a bullshit u r writing,thts all r ridiclous,its nt fair
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MA says: June 08, 2009 at 01:32 PM IST
Dear all
What do you think when raj thakray started the same thing in mumbai. Is this not racism. once we have racism in our own country for our own people then how come we complain about other countries people. Fist of all we should think to accomodate our people in our home then think for others. i never saw any open critism from any where within india very openly when raj has started in mumbai. this exactly same what is happening in australia. every one has fear with other. this australians are thinking that the indians are occupying their place same as raj think for other indians in maharahtra. so please first correct our self then try to change others.
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Ashish SHukla says: June 08, 2009 at 01:35 PM IST
Hold on..it seems that writer is trying to justify Aussie atacks by giving examples of discrimination in indian society. We should work on removing these but this does not justify attacks on indians which is towards all the people of indian origin.
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Kishor says: June 08, 2009 at 01:37 PM IST
I am wondering why attacks are done on Indian Students only while there are many other students from Srilanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh who has complexion simlar to us?
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Rajesh K says: June 08, 2009 at 01:38 PM IST
You are missing the point, its about abuse and persistent physical attacks on a different race, and the kind of local indian behavior you are dubbing as racist exists everywhere... You will see mainlanders calling islanders with funny names and vice versa, its so so normal, also that makes everyone in the world racist doesn't it?
Indians may have other issues, but such attacks on foreigners have hardly occured in India (forget the raping incidents, I think that really is not a race specific issue). calling someone madrasi is not equal to bashing someone because he is a foreigner.
It seems you think these protests are taking place because they happened to some fair skinned indians - do we even care how did the person look like - hearing my countrymen to through such attrocities disturbs us.
And because we have some problems doesn't mean we deserve such treatment.
Regards.
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Amar Kumar Padhi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:39 PM IST
Jug Surya makes a point, but he does so with the backdrop of Australian issue. Wrong time and choice, I must say.
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ragini says: June 08, 2009 at 01:40 PM IST
Absolutely in agreement with Mr Suraiya. This is what i had written a few days back.Let us clean the garbage that infests our mind before shooting off sermons i do not believe that we arn't aware of it!
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Viresh Kumawat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:41 PM IST
Dear Author,
In india people do not hate each other just because they are from different region or country or colour of skin. However this is not true in western country. We indians more of hospitable nature than western people. We are more adjustable and tolerate than western countries.
WE ARE NOT RACIST
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Manoj Bhatnagar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:43 PM IST
Haha ha Its all foolish commentary, Indian have ben the most tolerant of all in the world may be thats why Aryan or Mughals or Europeans came here and ruled.... look at the intrgration of caste and religions we have accepted in this very land and the colours of different shades live and found are no where in the world... don't ever mislead the soceity... grow up like our ancesters were and we boast to be Indians be we Hindu, Muslims, Sikha Christians, Jews or any other origins..... remember we have white and black color in all caste and religions in India... please remember it... dont mix the real issue... today's India is far more understanding and capable.... please make a note of it...... and we continue to develop this land and the world as whole come what may..... tks
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kiran kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:44 PM IST
This should be an eye opener for all us the indians, to see around us first before we point a finger at others also remember when we point finger at some one 3 fingers are pointing at us.
commandable look at our indian mentality and our way of thinking.
-kiran.
http://kirruuk.blogspot.com
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dash says: June 08, 2009 at 01:46 PM IST
AUSTRALIANS HAVE EXTERMINATED ABORIGINS.
AND AMERICANS HAVE RED INDIANS.
EVEN NEIGHBOURING PAKISTAN HAS FINISHED HINDUS BUT NOT US.
MUSLIMS ARE PAMPERED HERE FOR VOTES. HAJIS ARE COMPENSATED FOR THEIR TRAVEL THOUGH THE COUNTRY WAS DIVIDED ON TEH BASIS OF RELIGION.
WE ARE NOT ASKING TO STOP ALL THESE.
JUST STOP PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AND LET PEOPLE NOT DIE OF HUNGER.
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nadeer says: June 08, 2009 at 01:48 PM IST
'Habshi' is not offensive. It is the arabic for 'Ethiopian'
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Rishi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:49 PM IST
Talk about your self Jug suraiya, cause I am not!!
Shameless attention seeking Indians like you are the reason we are treated like this.
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kaly says: June 08, 2009 at 01:49 PM IST
Caste system is bigger than racism. Even in India bad people do bad thing using castes. And unfortunately this number is high.
Most of the people here in UK ( even if they dont like each other) say thanks/ hello etc. We dont have such mannerism back home.
However I would like India to stand tall and evolve from these bad incidents.
Students unite! - Kaly
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Murali says: June 08, 2009 at 01:50 PM IST
You are right to a great extent. Racism (or its variants) in India has so many forms. Casteism is a State sponsored method of descrimination by the Government used for preventing certain sections of society from getting jobs and other opportunities. You can see advertisements in the newspapers "...looking for fair complexioned girls..". In many cities, people from the neighbouring states have been attacked due to their origin. e.g., Maharastra, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. The list is endless.
Why do we still pretend that we are not racists? The so called "3000 years of cultural heritage" has resulted in a society that is incapable of understanding its priorities and what is happening the outside world.
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pankaj says: June 08, 2009 at 01:50 PM IST
Even in INDIA itself if north indians can be beaten up in Mumbai that to by indians only,then australians can do the same with all indians in Australia .If in our own country itself we are not safe den why to expect the same from Australia?
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rav says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
It is very strange and good article from indiatimes without first time on net title. Write some good article like this than any other emotional stories.
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Venkat says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
What is the relevance? WE are also big time boot lickers for white people. Is it relevant too? None of this is relevant. What is relevant is at this point of time, people are being attacked with Racial motives. In India, Race is restricted to Inter-regional races and on indian citizen. Not on our guests on racial basis (could be other reasons).
Your article only side steps the issue of safety of our students in Australia. Sorry.. your article fails miserably.
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Manoj Bhatnagar says: June 08, 2009 at 01:51 PM IST
Haha ha Its all foolish commentary, Indian have ben the most tolerant of all in the world may be thats why Aryan or Mughals or Europeans came here and ruled.... look at the intrgration of caste and religions we have accepted in this very land and the colours of different shades live and found are no where in the world... don't ever mislead the soceity... grow up like our ancesters were and we boast to be Indians be we Hindu, Muslims, Sikha Christians, Jews or any other origins..... remember we have white and black color in all caste and religions in India... please remember it... dont mix the real issue... today's India is far more understanding and capable.... please make a note of it...... and we continue to develop this land and the world as whole come what may..... tks
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Akshay Muttoo says: June 08, 2009 at 01:52 PM IST
Indians are the biggest hypocrists in the world. 11 Indians attached in Australia and we are making a noise, what about the countless attacks on foreigners in India. The ways we treat their women in India these attacks on Indians is nothing. Indians do not treat them with slightest great dignity and respect and expect the world to treat them fairly. India is probably one of the most unsafe countries for foreigners. Try and make India safer for foreigners and you shall see a difference in the way indians will be treated abroad.
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WOW says: June 08, 2009 at 01:52 PM IST
This article misses the point completely. Whether we as Indians are racist or not is besides the point, under no circumstances do we go around beating people of other races. Jug, you are a simple minded fool looking to get some attention by posting contrarian, poorly thought out arguments in the name of "fairness".
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Teresa says: June 08, 2009 at 01:53 PM IST
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU JUG.
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deepak says: June 08, 2009 at 01:53 PM IST
arre bhailog....its nt abt racism in india...everyone knows tht we r diverse nation wid lot of struggling issues abt poverty, caste, religion, color etc.... BUT main issue is tht AUS n other developed nations r far more civilized society thn ours and talented educated students who r contributin to their economy n research r being beatn up.. which is pathetic..pitty on their thinkin n d way thy r handlin the situation, still they think like idiots...thy r failed state ironically as of now...Big B did rite thin, these ppl who behave like uncivilized n unhuman n pretend to be civilized, see their well known kangroos cric team track record n behavior...its everywhere ..diff is its now more happening in Aus which is a matter of urgent concern...boycott dm or best way is tit 4 tat...who attacks give dem double dose in their own manner, beat dem up if dey do it first n turn dem white to red, u hv rite 2 protect urself...is self defence bros !! keep ur heads up...try ur level best, we r wid u. May GOD bless poor aussie with +ve thinkin n bless us wid perseverance n strength 2 bear this tough time together. Jai Hind !
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Dinesh B Renose says: June 08, 2009 at 01:55 PM IST
The atteck on INDIAN is very sad¬ justified.Why we (INDIAN)Under the RULL of MOGHAL 1000 year&Rull under Britiser 500 years,because of OUR Cateism.THANKS to SARDAR PATEL,He gethered us in ONE UMBRAILLA.We are most RACIST community in the WORLD.In all over INDIA 'JATIVAD'.Don't blame other First you do the wright JOB then advice other.Why they not rais there FINGER in all over the STETE of INDIA,poor -DALIT-not get fundamental right,Because of DAIRTY Casteism.
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Dinesh B Renose says: June 08, 2009 at 01:57 PM IST
The atteck on INDIAN is very sad¬ justified.Why we (INDIAN)Under the RULL of MOGHAL 1000 year&Rull under Britiser 500 years,because of OUR Cateism.THANKS to SARDAR PATEL,He gethered us in ONE UMBRAILLA.We are most RACIST community in the WORLD.In all over INDIA 'JATIVAD'.Don't blame other First you do the wright JOB then advice other.Why they not rais there FINGER in all over the STETE of INDIA,poor -DALIT-not get fundamental right,Because of DAIRTY Casteism.
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Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 01:58 PM IST
Lets not blame Australians alone,as Jug Suraiya said racism is very much there in Indians and is deeply embedded in our blood.I remember the days when in early 80,s south Indians were addressed as Makalus in the North Indian campuses and the Africans as Kalias and the many of the students from North never used to mingle with southern students.I will not say they were all bad but some were who chose to tease the south Indians dayin and out.Some of the students from North used to be veryfriendly and used to take care of the south Indian students from these teases.Now coming to Australia I had an oppurtunity to stay there for two months on a couple of occassions recently.I find them very helpfull and friendly and some of the incidents happened recently may be abberation done by a few disgruntled and rowdy elements which are there in each society worldover.There may be many more cases of Australians helping Indian students and also halting such attacks which generally no body reports.Generalising and creating a furore is not good in a civilised society.In fact we Indians resist adopting the local cultures and my observation is that only we speak loudly in the Trains and restaurants while the local culture is not to disturb others and speak in that tone.While the attacks should definetely be condemned and I am sure Australians being so friendly the Australian Govt. would take needfull action,we also should adopt to the local culture and not disturb or distract the culture which they live in.
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Rohan says: June 08, 2009 at 01:59 PM IST
Mr.Jug,
Thanks for the article. I wonder why 3/4th of the aricle is explaining the justification that If we base our attraction on fairness then voilence in other country because we are brown is justified.
1. yes I agree we are DIFFERENTIAL, but w ehavnt left COLOUR CODDING in our GOVT OR Education.
Nor is Singh the fairness idol nor is chidambaram the Northindian sitiing in delhi!
2. By forgetting that that biggest examples of our country are not precidented on colourcoding U are making local people easy target
3.yes the adds speak true that colour fairness is biased towards the bridal section, but how many u young u know are Marrying Only on that criteria.
4.CASTE inherently is our identity, but we dont forget that we are INDIANS first, if that needs to be reminded.Discrimination on caste is not right yes but Dont forget that choice FOR EVERY INDIAN IS DEMOCRATIC.
5.IF we were that rascist that provoked u to reflect and focus it to entirely on indians to reflect on themselves, so are u their by suggesting that those who have brown colour hjave no options to get beaten up cause we are in midst of all this.
6.VOILENCE IS NEVER THE ANSWER. to all those who go on about marathi manoos, dont u knwo that if shiv sena was voted out this time, majority of marathi DOESNT want them.
7.STOP GENERALISING MR. JAG SURYA.
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Anuj Joshi says: June 08, 2009 at 01:59 PM IST
Jug surraiyya,
Though generally like your columns but this one is a little too much. This is just the same tendency as most of us indians have when talking about ourselves w.r.t anything. After 26/11 we immediately started looking at our faults and how India is inherently prone to such attacks instead of looking at how do we handle the international diplomacy to contain Pakistan. Instead of condemning the Oz attacks unanimously, we have started rationalizing with what and why. The question right now is not whether we are racist or not, it is that Australians for sure are. Try telling this non-sense to fathers and mothers of kids who have got brutally killed and assaulted.
Atleast senior journalists like you are supposed to be responsible in your responses to such things.
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ashish gupta says: June 08, 2009 at 02:00 PM IST
First and foremost thing I want to say everybody that "No country is perfect". Even Australian have problem with Aborignial, italian and vietnamese or chinese. Now what is the difference between indian citizen and australian citizen is this:
1. After happening so much still Australian will support their community and be positive. However, Indians will start blaming each other and try to find a point to attack their own community. Blaming does not resolve issue,it's easy game to play.
2. If Australian makes a crime or been problem in another country, they try to help every way to get out that person whereas India they think twice in economic or money term so that they dont hampher any relation another country. Even Indian Australian told me, "I m safe because I've got a family & old so chance of attack is less to none" which is an act of coward. It seems Indian dont do anything unless and untill it knocks their door.
3.Looking beautiful and racism are two things. I prefer healthy girls against slim that makes me racist. Answer is "NO", but it will make me racist if I treat slim girl badly or dont give job because she is slim. Tell me a guy who does not like beautiful girl however meaning of beauty differs from guy to guy.
4. Caste is a problem but this is not time to discuss and blame each other but help each other. Remember 1 thing if you dont respect your community nobody else will respect, like if you are not happy you cannot make other happy.
5. Another issue greed and fear bcos I've seen some journalist writing absoulute rubbish which makes me think that this journalist has been purchased by others.Remember 1 thing if you have life then money worths,no-life money is a peice of paper. Same way if you dont speak, dont demand you will never get it. Be bold and speak out & help your community.
Finally we should respond to situation not react to the situation. Like we should ask for data like 1.how many thugs or little terrorist have been captured by Ausgov et
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Suraj Thomas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:00 PM IST
You are absolutely correct...We Indians call black people "Kaala" and whites "Gorra". We are the biggest racist in the world. Even between our fellow states, Indian people are seeing through racist eyes. North Indians doesn't like a South Indian. The simple example of our racist discrimination is Raj Thakkare's bihari attacks. We should correct ourselves before cricticizing the Aussies.
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Chetan Puri says: June 08, 2009 at 02:02 PM IST
I am In Australia and fully agree with Mr. Jug.Indian society is the most racist and hypocratic society.I have never ever experienced any racism in Australia what I did in India. The worst country in the worldI will say is India where people are so racist for their own people.
Keep it up Mr. Jug that you are in India and can speak truth.
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tenzin says: June 08, 2009 at 02:02 PM IST
The writer aptly remarked that India is more racist in its term. Accumulation of experience of facing Indian society especially knocking the door of Burueacrat are the worst experience I ever had. The root of its causes lies in the mentality of Indian mass, though I won't say all the people but majority of them.
The firsthand experience was facing the entry into Delhi University office when I failed to get my result despite appearing in the exams. Second, depriving riot to own or set up of Tourism business in Ladakh and other remote region of India for Tibetan being a refugee. Even to get a document signed takes massive effort even humiliating in front of other people was the worst of all for no cause. Thats why I finally opted abroad, if you have a skill to show you are very welcome to contribute and earn.
I too have witnessed Indian abroad are having the same mentality even when it is not their own country, if gets opportunity they are ridiculing the native. In a way they are inviting trouble by themselve on the first hand. As saying "Be a Roman when you are in Rome".
Agree (16) Disagree (11)
Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 02:03 PM IST
Lets not blame Australians alone,as Jug Suraiya said racism is very much there in Indians and is deeply embedded in our blood.I remember the days when in early 80,s south Indians were addressed as Makalus in the North Indian campuses and the Africans as Kalias and the many of the students from North never used to mingle with southern students.I will not say they were all bad but some were who chose to tease the south Indians dayin and out.Some of the students from North used to be veryfriendly and used to take care of the south Indian students from these teases.Now coming to Australia I had an oppurtunity to stay there for two months on a couple of occassions recently.I find them very helpfull and friendly and some of the incidents happened recently may be abberation done by a few disgruntled and rowdy elements which are there in each society worldover.There may be many more cases of Australians helping Indian students and also halting such attacks which generally no body reports.Generalising and creating a furore is not good in a civilised society.In fact we Indians resist adopting the local cultures and my observation is that only we speak loudly in the Trains and restaurants while the local culture is not to disturb others and speak in that tone.While the attacks should definetely be condemned and I am sure Australians being so friendly the Australian Govt. would take needfull action,we also should adopt to the local culture and not disturb or distract the culture which they live in.
Agree (12) Disagree (15)
Kalpesh Karnik says: June 08, 2009 at 02:05 PM IST
very well written. people who are talking against the writer are most racist as they only care about what is happening to their race (the educated urban ppl who go out of country for studies). In Australia there are only 1lac indians, where as in india crores of indians are victims if caste/colour/social strata based racism. So the writer has done the right thing by speaking for the majority that are in india and not sum foreign land.
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N Haokip says: June 08, 2009 at 02:05 PM IST
I agree with the writer. We, indians are much more racist than any nation I can think of. Especially the mainland Indians are very insensitive towards the NE people because of their chinese appearances. NE people often suffered the worst form of racist slur within India. Better correct ourselves first and then point fingers at others. As simple as that.
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Vasu says: June 08, 2009 at 02:06 PM IST
I agree that we are the biggest racists of the world. We have inherited it through centuries. The whites cant even imagine of what we do to the lower castes in India. I agree the basic mentality of a human being will be the same and it is the sytem that make to work and behave. Many, including the educated think that they are superior by birth. Some say that it is the reservations in the education and employment fields that is the basic cause for this but it is present in all walks of life. The westerners are definitely far better than us. And one more thing is they dont know what hunger is. We have struggle at every walk of life. If all of us also have atleast basic needs then we will behave much better than what we are now and the politicians also find it difficult to take advantage of the caste system.
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Raj says: June 08, 2009 at 02:07 PM IST
Very True, dont we say that you are south indian or north indian or Bihari or Bhaiya. Even thats racism.
I am writing from Dubai and even on Foreign Soil, we have racism among our self. Mallu's (Malayli ppl), Sindhi or Bihari Bhaiyas... Guys grow up... need to fix our self first and then talk the same to Australians...
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Prashant Sood says: June 08, 2009 at 02:08 PM IST
Good observation but not in the context of the current circumstances
We Indians have some biased opinion about our fellow country men
But it does not go to the extent of physically or mentally harassing them.
So to say we Indians are even more racist than Aussi is only to grab more attention
Which you have got now
But at the same time you have not considered the acts of racism committed in other countries(in this context Australia) and against whom(in this context Indians)
And you are passing a judgement that we are more racist!!
Are you really Jug Suraiya??
I have grown up reading your articles and this one is utter nonsense.
You should be practising responsible journalism on this sensitive issue.
A racist can never catch a racist as he will quietly accept what ever will be dished out to him as he know he is no clean. Only someone who don't agree with such acts will raise his or her voice.
All your article concludes with is we Indians should accept this sort of behaviour and start living with it as we ourself are wrong.
I think you should come up with another article to give a clearer point of view if you don't agree with the points people have raised and try and look at the bigger picture.
One of yours fans
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Deepak says: June 08, 2009 at 02:08 PM IST
I have read many of Jug's articles...and I have always ended up with the same feeling...
Is Jug Suraiya a Western slave?
Why do all his articles show his contempt for India and Indians?
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MuddiedUtopia says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
I have lived and worked in Australia for a couple of years now and feel that racism in Australia is rampant while not openly evident. For professionals, the glass ceiling does apply if you are an Asian. Somehow, this does not seem to be the case with Indians raised in Australia, who have greater acceptance. From my own experience, I felt Melbourne was a cauldron for such racist activity, which hardly rears its ugly head in Sydney or Brisbane. Both the racist attacks and the attitudes towards immigrants though, I think are attributable partly to Arab immigrants. There is a clear cultural and social difference between the ordinary Australian and the Arab youth, magnified in recent times by the lack of education in the Aussie Arab community. This has led to ghettoisation and further differences between the various immigrant societies and naturalised Australians.
The issue of racial attacks must be taken up strongly and not pushed under the rug as certain elements like Yadu Singh seem to suggest. At the same time the issue should not be blown out of proportion by means of aggressive demonstrations that disrupt public life.
That said I have no doubt that India society at large (I do not wish to stereotype every Indian), is highly racist. For all Indians who are abroad and have faced problems in various countries (which I have), it is good to put yourself in the shoes of any foreigner visiting India. From street urchins following you all around, to the never ending stares, atrocious treatment of women and non-Caucasian people…the trauma never ends. I have been barred from entry into a few nightclubs in Australia, but I don’t think an Indian clubs or high-end restaurants allow any African students entry – likening them all to drug peddlers. So many foreign tourists are raped, and god knows how many cases of molestation go unreported.
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MuddiedUtopia says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
continued....
And we reserve this treatment only for foreigners. We treat our own countrymen much differently. Staying away from the issue of caste and religion altogether, it is still evident how Indians from the North-East are treated so shabbily in the rest of the country. Folks from the N-E are “chinki” and worst still girls are “easy”. Indians from UP and Bihar or “bhaiyyas” are regularly beaten up in Mumbai.
One wrong does not justify another. And Indians should protest the racism abroad.
However, let’s realise that the only reason we protest is that we know that outside of our country such protests will have an impact, whereas in India no one would give a damn. We protest because for all these years, a life abroad represented an escape from the harshness of life in India and now we see that utopia being muddied.
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bishwajit says: June 08, 2009 at 02:10 PM IST
Very true...well said.
One must not forget that charity from home. We better look ourselves and realize that people in India doesn't know INDIA as a country first. India Sub-continent is so vast and have so many culture, religions and cast that we end up fighting among ourselves.
Let me ask a question, how many states are there in NE-India? Simpler questions!!! Mizoram is a state or a town/city?
How far is Manipur from Imphal?
Answer these questions first please or u think that this is absurd questions. If u don't know the answers then please agree with the author.
Let’s start our charity from here.
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suryanarayanan says: June 08, 2009 at 02:12 PM IST
i dont agree with you; you are getting confused without understanding caste problem;it is changing we are called underdveloped country but we are progreesing; those madrasi( i am one)mockings have disappeared thanks to dosai, idly etc.(we used to say hai, hai'for hindi like driving an horse cart. now we dont say anymore)the aussies belong to un ''advanced''country an civilzed! so the govt should not allow this to ahppen; esply the aussie univ conducts interviews in india to recruit students.
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Cas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:13 PM IST
With my deepest sympathies to the victims in Australia, I would like to point out the Rape and murder that happens to foreign nationals in places like Goa, Chandigarh etc....Not very Indian now is it???......Finally someone had the balls to write about this.....Totally Agree!!!
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vinny says: June 08, 2009 at 02:14 PM IST
Get it real people Australia was built on criminals shipped boat load from England. Its in the blood.
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Rajesh says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Wrong. You have got it comepletely wrong.
It doesn't take a racist to know a racist, it takes a victim of racism to understand racism.
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Syed Nawid Ahmed says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Mr.Suraiya points out a fact we cannot deny..we might be even the most racist-minded people in the world calling our own countrymen by various names such as "chinky" or "bong", but this is something which has been built into our heads and most certainly 99% of the time used in humour...i studied in a boarding school in chennai with a large mix of children from all over the world..I'm studying in New Zealand now and words like "white boy","brown buzz" are common between my friends..but what's different here is the people haven't considered themselves to be superior..and even if some of them do, they would never go to the length of taking action against their own fancies and hatred.. i'd like to say what happening in Australia is beyond racism....racism can always be taken in a light manner depending on the individuals take on the issue...Right now, the Australian youth is to be questioned...most of the seniors of the country have gracefully let immigrants in too long to be questioned here...the youth in Australia is having this growing sense of pride which has taken an ugly interpretation over the last month...Its the anger of such inhumanity that's leading us to believe that Australia itself is to blame or for that matter any race as a whole...On the other hand, we as Indians while going to a foriegn country should do as much as possible to know about the self-defense laws of the countryin order to not put ourselves in a situation where we have to think before we strike..No country is completely safe...We need to hop out of our shell of vulnerability in the western world...and this can happen only if we are ready to open-mindedly separate good people from bad instead of white from brown
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sagar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:16 PM IST
Australia is the country with more diverse people in the sense, people from different countries. People on the whole are only considering the attacks on Indians. But to clear you attacks are not only on the Indians. These attacks are also on the people from different countries.Many of the people have said that this attacks are due to racism. but, i think this attacks are carried out by the people who got accustomed to drugs and drinking..They don't find money to satisfy themselves, and get into this actions...i request all of them to please stop this hype regarding racism...increase in the hype from news channels will make it more difficult for the people living here..i do feel this actions from news channel will bring the second thought in the minds of the people who are not racist.Attacks by few groups on Indians doesn't mean that Australia and Australians are racist. i may be wrong but want to share the reality what i see in my day to day life here...
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Vilas More says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Racism is in Indian blood. It has been there from the times of Lord Rama.
Lord Rama beheaded a Shudra named Shambuka for learning Vedas.
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sandeep says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
You dont need to have sons or daughters in Melbourne to understand what racism is for heavens sake. What a silly counter question for the sake of a question. When dailts get killed in dozens by upper castes or vice versa, what is it? Indians are definetely the biggest racists in the world.
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Sanjib Kumar Biswas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Dear Jug Suraiya,
I admire your points on racism. Specially the point of African people who is having taste of Delhi campus. I am working in Africa since past three years and I can see how our Indian friends are treating with these African Citizen. Our Indian fellow treat these people as slave. And when any African people is on their head, Indian people try to be their friend. They try to butter them so save themselves. Today if our countryman facing this in Australia, is just coz of our deeds. Its really a matter of fact that, Only Indians among the Asian people are targetted with racism.
I have seen so many cases like this. If anybody comes from Amerian / Europian counties in india to work with us, we treat them as our boss and they also enjoy it. I have seen my engineer friends to carry their shoes and bags.. lol. But its ture. The reason is we feel that they will recommend us as good chap. And the same when we visit these continents American/ Europian/ Australian. And the same people when visit to African continent they become boss..lol.
@ NorBlackNorWhite,
Dear, we donn beat any foreigner from any African countries, but we avoid them from our group. And the reason why donn beat then is WE CAN'T. We afraid of LAWs..
@ Ram,
theres nothing to feel shame for mr. Jug. He just wrote his blog. And you can't deny to agree on his points. If you speak of coming to US/UK/Aus, u can see my comment on Indian people visiting those countries.
@ Avijit,
Nobody is putting any garbage here in media. You are blamming govt for this. its very easy to finger anybody, but think about the the brain darin. There are lots of MBA colleges in India, even then you moved to UK. During moving to UK, have you ever had any meeting with any govt to support you? No. But u seek help from them, when you are in danger. Don't think what govt did for you, think what u did for India.
We are really sorry for whats happening in Australia. And out govt is even working on it.
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RK says: June 08, 2009 at 02:20 PM IST
Aussies have racism like any other country. However, it has never (there are always one or two) been at physical level especially brutal. The recent happenings are just oppurtunistic. The culprits have chosen the soft target. I personally feel police is a waste of resource and the justice system (very gentle) reflects the countries history.
It is with pity that high profile entertainer Khamal (who I had a great regards before, not anymore) recently mentioned that Indians have to get accustomed to the Aussie culture. This statement vindicates the culture of Aussies, at least the trouble making ones. Therefore, to certain extent the new students have to quickly get adapted to the country they live in, at least for their safety after all they have moved to a developed country. Sometimes it is inevitable to dish out what is been dished to you.
If parents and other people can take this with no offence, things WILL NOT get better. It is just a co-incidence as far as police are concerned. Of course things happen in India, where the population is vast compared to Australia. However, it has never happened to people from one particular country, after all India is a third world country. I cannot understand the concept when people, compare such kind of crimes as a pre cursor to make a crime and use the fair skin to escape the situation.
Just on that note, I am confident that in the past at least one culprit was convicted of such kind of hatered against Christian people and was sentenced to death. Will that happen in Australia, I do not think so. Therefore, people compare certain aspects to their benefit and totally ignore or hide other aspects.
The bottom line is Indians WILL NOT get any help from Aussie police / government. Indians are seen as cash cows let it be students or working members.
As per the entertainer's statement on national TV, Indian students should quickly adapt to the Aussie culture of whatever it is. Goodluck people
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Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 02:22 PM IST
Mr. Author,
Atleast we don't beat/harass foreigners just because they are from a specific country. Your articles is full of nonsense and bullshit arguments. I respect people, who are elder than me, but looks like you have lost your sense at this age.
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Vidyadhar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:23 PM IST
Very true sir,
We need intreospection before shouting "foul".
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dannydev says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
Racism isn't about beating someone up, its how you view or typecast someone because of his skin color or where he comes from.
Its a behaviour and mindset issue and the actions like beating someone up or calling someone a "Big Monkey" are just the result.
Lets face it the whole world is racist and the reason is that as humans we find it extremely difficult to accept someone different, either in colour, religion or culture. Its just more violent in some places that the other, e.g UK and now Australia. A few examples
1. Southern states in the USA still don't like African Americans and Latin Americans
2. Within India itself we are a nation of division by diversity. Try being accepted in Chennai if you are a north Indian or vice versa
3. Dot busters in the UK or just the KKK
The list is endless. The only way of fighting this is by teaching our children never to differentiate and never hesitating to correct someone who holds this view. You may not change him, but just make it more difficult for him to influence 10 other people
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Atul says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
Jag - your blog is spot on. Nail on the head. Indians are the worlds most racist. Starts with child berth, first question , Is the child fair or dark? or read the matrimonial ads. Racist to the core. Shame on Indians .Make no mistake Caste is a race issue. well done Suraiya. Wish TOI editor reads your blog.
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DD Joshi says: June 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM IST
We are working on north indian and south indian system, brahimin and kayasthi, othry types e.g. Desi and PAAVHI
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Shailesh says: June 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM IST
In India we do have racism and whole lot of other problems.But what about Australia, it is supposed to be developed society/country (At least what they claim to be). The question here is not about what happens in India, it is about what is happening in Australia. Henceforth no develop country should have any right to say Racism exists only in India "The so called Third world country".
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Sai says: June 08, 2009 at 02:26 PM IST
Care a damn whether Indians are racist or not. What ever be it, the attacks in Oz cannot be justified. If it takes a racist to identify racism then the author is blatantly racist. All those here empathising with the attackers in Oz need to do some soul searching.
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James says: June 08, 2009 at 02:26 PM IST
hmmm., I dont think it is fair to compete in the racism issue by way of comparison. Australia and India are very distinct countries. The cause for the current trend against Indians is that Indians are not as aggressive when confronting foreigners in foreign land. This is an issue, but than again, what would an average human do against 15-16 thugs, sometimes with weapons.
India, has a strong history of racism, some of which were clearly depicted in the narrative above. Especially that almost billion dollars worth of skin whitening creams are sold throughout the country.
All the while, I believe it is wrong to say that Indians are more racist that Aussies, as the scenes in both cases are very different. Imagine Australia having a population of a Billion people; while this is far from the point, racism is everywhere, due to inadequacies of the mind, inability of human recognition as one people. Environment and demographics play an important role.
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Sky says: June 08, 2009 at 02:28 PM IST
Very well said.
Though time is difficult for our countrymen in Australia and we need to support them by whatever means. Yet, this is the right time to introspect as well because once this difficult time is over we will forget to see what we are made off and will never ever think of taking our inner racisim off. And the truth is that we are so called Racist not by one mean but by many means and if any here wants a proof just get out of your computer rooms stand on the road for a while and you find it without any difficulty
Ver well said Mr Suraiya
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SM says: June 08, 2009 at 02:30 PM IST
Thanks for speaking out the reality. Indians are racists. Indian government promotes double standards, and a lot of work needs to be done.
I still don't understand why the entry ticket to the Taj Mahal is Rs. 20 for Indians and Rs 750 for foreigners. That's the equality the Indian government promotes. More than 60 years of independence jobs are still reserved on the basis of casts. Looks at the foreign students harassed and made fun of in India.
I think, a lot of work needs to be done in India itself.
Beyond that, what's happening in Australia is really disappointing. I didn't know Australians insist doing mistakes for a hundred years before they realize they were wrong.
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An Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 02:30 PM IST
Hi JUG jus wanted to ask you,What do you do when your kid dies due to doctors mistake? As per this article of yours:- you will be calm smiling saying thats not a big deal, it happens regularly with others and so is the case with you.
But the fact is you will not remain the same, you will offcorse shout on the docter saying he is a criminal.Isn't it? The reason being obvious as that kid is yours. The same is the case here unless you dont feel others pain as yours, you can never undestand what other's are going through.Wrong is wrong whther in india or abraod. you just cannot say wrong is not wrong because some one else is wrong.I don't know why you have posted this blog just to see all these replys or you really wanted to convey any message.I just pray for you that nothing of this sort happens to you or your family...........
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rahul sharma says: June 08, 2009 at 02:31 PM IST
Mr suraiya
you have said what i have been saying to my friends and parents for a long time although i am only in my thirties,but it doesnt take a microscope to see the widespread racism in our country towards indians and especially non indians.
as for our friends caught up in austalia they should toughene up a litle bit and stop looking like victims all the time.
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H mat says: June 08, 2009 at 02:32 PM IST
Hi Jug
We came to Australia 20 years ago. I got migration so I came here with my family. we got very good treatment by the people living here-ausi, swiss, german, scotts etc etc.We are good friends with all the people around here, they may be India or Gore.
In India you may call it a caste but it is still racial. people avoid it to say caste is the integral system of the country but it does divide the country and it is racial. Look at Maharashtrians beating up Bihari's.We are REAl hypocrates. The majority of students over here are NOT to study but to get PR and live a life,they can not dream in India. They can not get admission in Indian unis and colleges due to their abilities and languages as well.
They do not like to get along with the locals. Shame on them. This is due to illigal practice by bank mamgers to give them LETTEr dictating the loan to study. Actually there is no loan.
Australian authorities should be more strict and more firm in accepting ANY student.
These happenings are due to soft targets and not beacuse of racial.
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Hardik says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
It is true that we have some stereo-typed mindset about beauty in India and many of us generally prefer fairness of skin than darkness when it comes to choosing a life partner, but this is totally different from attacking people and robbing or killing them because of the origin of them.
The Indian students will be perfectly happy if they are not chosen by the Aussi girls because of their skin color, but at least there should not be any atrocities because of this.
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Tarun Lalwani says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
This article is typical rant of the uneducated. The author himself has stated that the prejudice that we have in India is based on color and hence not racism. Can you call a social group's fondness of a particular trait of the human body as racism. If so, then the absence of overwieght ramp models also falls under racism. More importantly, as one blogger points out, Do we impart skull bashing on our darker citizens?
Sorry, but the authors thoughts, although correct, are misplaced in the context of racism.
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Hanif Mohammed says: June 08, 2009 at 02:34 PM IST
We would be fooling ourselves, if we say, we are not racist. Racisim happens at all levels of society. Apart from white vs black, its also happens when you are in a minority situation. Having travelled widely around the world, I have noticed that, situation is much better off, where foreigners amalmagate into mainstream, and accept the prevailing way of life. Racisim happens whenever, in such situations, you or the group stay aloof from the locals, and thereafter reflect our own culture, in not so acceptable manner. We should try to assimiliate with the locals, and reflect that we are also part of them, contributing to the welfare of that country, rather than demonstrating how patriotic we are towards our own country (there is no harm in being patriotic, but when you leave for other shores, be considerate and respect the local people, to gain their respect and acceptance). We should always think, how we would react, if some foreigners come to our land, and try to impose upon us their lifestyle and culture !! Be rational when you are in a foreign land, and try to earn their respect, by showing them that we part of them !! That would work like magic, and tranquality will prevail.
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MumbaiDude says: June 08, 2009 at 02:38 PM IST
Well said, Jug. We, Indians, are possibly the biggest racists on the planet. It's just that our definition of racism is slightly skewed...just look at some of the previously posted comments: Some of them define what is "internal" and "external."
Racism doesn't just refer to migrants being beaten up by locals. It has manifested the mindsets of all people in various forms. We're probably the pioneers who introduced employment on the basis of racism - the varna system.
What do you think we would do if a substantial amount of jobs in India were taken away by Kenyans?...If most of Indian firms' business operations were outsourced to the Philippines?...If our colleges were teeming with Arab students?...
I'm not justifying what the Australians are doing. I'm enraged over the recent happenings on our fellow brethren. But it's high time we took off this mask of hypocrisy.
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Sundaram Ramaswamy says: June 08, 2009 at 02:39 PM IST
This article is insensitive to the plight of people suffering racism in foreign shores to say the least.
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Raghu says: June 08, 2009 at 02:40 PM IST
Hi I have not read the article, as i am tired of reading article saying we are more racist or they are more racist? I have got a question , What is happening in australia should we let it happen bcus we are also racist or try to stop it? Indian students raised an issue about being targetted in australia and asked for help? Did your blog provide any help .. No you blog suggests Indians are bigger racist so does that mean we are not allowed to raise a concern? students dont get protection from cops and if racism is a mean to get protection then so be it.
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Pratap says: June 08, 2009 at 02:40 PM IST
the great old indian past time of always pointing fingers ourselves, always seeing faults in our deeds. we are wrong hence bad things happened to us, its all karma. well its all bull my dear frnd and coz of this attitude of the generations gone by we are a third world country and are getting slapped around. you know why? coz of generations like yours, blaming it all on karma and some hogwash fault in ourselves rather then getting to the task. you sicken me
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Narasimha R G says: June 08, 2009 at 02:46 PM IST
This is shame of us as our governments are not providing good education and oppertunities to live in India.People are going to abroad as we don't have enough things to do here.Now this situation is only in Austrelia,if they do the same thing in all other countries like US,.. what is position of indians who are staying in aborad....
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Raghu Varma says: June 08, 2009 at 02:47 PM IST
Indians are undergoing a very bad phase in Australia and this should be condemned in all forms and fought with all might possible.
Mr. Jug Suraiya,
I read your article with lot of interest as this reflects the ugly Indianness.
Moving from state to state within India is even more painful than moving to foreign soils. Most of the world is divided mainly on Colour, economic status and religion. But in India we can see segregation of people in many ways starting with mother tongue/dialect, region, religion, caste, complexion, economic status.
It is a fact that Indians perform well in other countries and this is due to another fact that we Indians are limited and the dirty politics are minimised.This will not remain for long as our numbers are increasing there as well.Even now in places like middle east we see 'Mallu Mafia', Tamil Mafia', 'Marathi Mafia', 'Gujju Mafia', to name a few and these feelings control chances of getting a job, promotion, increment.We are bringing India to foreign lands.
All said and done we should decline to act in any form of discrimination be it race, religion, caste or creed. Only then we have the moral right to fight against only one form of discrimination and that is 'RACE'.
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Amit Iyer says: June 08, 2009 at 02:48 PM IST
Fantastic article!!!! Though this does not justify things happening in Australia. I think we need to take strong measures through diplomatic channels against the Oz...at the same time, we need to sort our own problems...our african friends are called " Kaalia" when they come to our country....the problem with us is that we want to be treated on par with a white guy but we will never do the same to a black guy.we are obsessed with white skin...We need to change ourselves before pointing fingers at some other country
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Vikas says: June 08, 2009 at 02:48 PM IST
I think the author is clearly mixing up two different issues here. What is happening in Australia is not synonymous with our caste system or regional based discrimination. Reason is India is a secular nation and when people from all religion, region, culture live together in 1.2 billion population there is bound to have some friction which originates from different values of peoples life and perception. What is happening in Australia is a brutal act where the intention is to directly hurt/kill someone just because that person is of some other nationality. So pls dont confuse these two things.
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Sunil G Desai says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
I think what you mean to say is that if we are not racial then only we can protest the racial people, right?
Then we have so many cases of rapes in our country that means if any group of Indian Women are raped abroad then we have to keep quite right?
Mr. Jug Saraiya I think you are still a grown up child!! Your arguments are all based on the absurd way to look at the things!! Because of these type of weird arguments the world is suffering from the hatred and violence.
May GOD bless you
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Rivka Mishra says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
I think Mr Suraiya conflates several issues. There is an element of racism in Indian society, but I think it is a mistake to think that it is widespread. Black people from Africa are not ill-treated or subjected to violence. There are many students from African countries in India, and if they had been victims of violence, I think we would have heard of it.
The other point is that I think we underestimate the influence of colonialism in shaping our view of Africans and other cultures. In colonial discourse Africa was the Dark Continent. When we examine the origin of some of our views, we may find that not every prejudice is rooted in our own culture.
As for having names for each linguistic group, I hardly think is a kind of prejudice. In most countries there are jokes about people from a particular part of the country. People don't take offence at things like that.
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sz says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
i absolutely agree with the author.. i agree the aussies have been racist be we r the ones who r much worse off for all these centuries and waitin for the smallest thing to hype ourselves up.. we indians find great pride in being victims and being sympathised and then causing a halla bout it
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kiran kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
firstly, thats an eye opener article on ground reality in our country, on our people mindset, on our way of thinking. its absolutely true what you say and its happening day in day out around us.
what a shame and pity that we point a finger at others and forget that 3 fingers point back to us(i.e check yourself before you accuse some one out there).
we discriminate our fellow indians based on the state(religion,caste,region,color of their skin,status in society,and what not. and how many incidents have we not seen or heard in our country where in FOREIGNERS have been targeted attacked, physically abused, raped, robbed Just because they are outsides(GORRAS)and what not.
i know many of our fellow indians who have given coments above for your blog DISAGREEING with you and absolutely furous aganist you for such coments dont agree what you say,cos the problem with most of our indians is they dont want to accept the ground reality and want to cover up and paint colorful that we are not racists ourselfs,and they are not broad minded or intellectuals to accept the fact that we are racists ourselfs, and if you see most of those who have given comments againist your views cant even justify or defend their views for they know what you said is very much true.
and to all those immmature indians i like to throw some light that , if ALL the EUROPEANS/AMERICANS have been racists we would not have in first place been allowed to come to their country, given opportunity to work and make a good living in their country.how many of you dont ahve family members/relatives living/settled ABROAD and living luxurious life out there??? and if they ALL are really racists, and if they have not OUTSOURCED jobs to our country, what would have been our fate?situation???????we take they jobs, we live in their country, we want their salary, we want they comforts,A-Z of their products and what not ,we sit on all these and still try to point finger at them.shame on us all.
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Navin says: June 08, 2009 at 02:49 PM IST
Though u have projected a true picture of things happening this our nation,...its slightly irrelevant. I say this, cause we need to extend our arm to our country-men suffering abroad, then we can talk our problems out. Its like one family at home, am sure u have fights and quarrels, but when theres a third party involved issue, you fight for your family...its that way. Perception now, should be lets unite and voice it out loud and clear to Australian miscreants.
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Varun Gandhi says: June 08, 2009 at 02:51 PM IST
I don't care what shilpa shetty n other shows have showen to us. Come to UK and face racisim by your own. Here only daily basis 1-2 Indian people are been targeted by black/while people. You are saying this on your logic. If you want to feel it, come to London and I am 100% I will prove you wrong.
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Abhirup says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
i totally agree with Jug.I living in Australia want to share this fact that this country is not racist. The attacks on us, Indian students were done by second generation immigrants like some Asians,Africans and ofcourse some migrant Australians. So dont say that Indians are getting physically assaulted because of the prevailing racism.
On the other hand u hypocrates will disregard whatever thats going on in our own country. The MNS of Maharashtra beating up people coming from North India, Christians monks being beaten and killed in Orissa, demolition of mosques and killing of people in Gujarat are definitely not heinous acts...infact the incident of some Indian students getting beaten up by a few irresponsible thugs and good for nothings give u'll an opportunity to point fingers at other countries and labelling them as racists.
I want to ask a question those students who have come to Australia to study...Why did you come here??? because the entrance exams are too tough to crack in India to get admission in Indian universities or u r not a SC/ST/OBC or u know that u cant do anything worthwhile if u stay in India. So u've come to Australia after spending lakhs of rupees to study stupid courses like community welfare, commercial cookery, nursing, etc or just manage to get ur PR and drive cabs for the rest of ur rich pathetic lives.
Ask urselves, have u'll not been victims of discrimination in India because either u r not a lower caste or u cant get a proper govt job because of stupid office politics?
I know i'm sounding harsh but this is a fact...We Indians are the biggest racists and there have been n number of incidents in India to prove this fact. So first plz change urselves and then point fingers at others. To begin this plz stop howling in Punjabi, Hindi, Gujrati, etc in buses and trains in Australia.
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Stephen George says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
One has to judge the time that he /she is writing an article. The matter calls for a deep thought and insight.
You maybe right is saying that we are more racist than the Ausies but that needs to be said at a time later. At the moment you need to have articles all around supporting the Indians in their fight. Showcase what you can to make the Government react to the atrocities of the Asusies in a diplomatic way.Generate an interest in the mind of the readers to make them react at first to the current situation and then- when things have cooled down, start another articles - now pinpoint the mentality of the Indians as general- that they are the biggest racists!!
We all understand that you are a permanent writer and such you could use the same base later on for this.
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JESWIN says: June 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM IST
I for once totally agree with Mr.Jug Suraiya here! All Indians at one point or the other are racist in their outlook and like he says to 'once own compatriots'. Get thinking Guys!
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john s says: June 08, 2009 at 02:58 PM IST
Your views about our own racism is absolutely correct but what is happenings in Australia against our people is unjust, racially motivated and we should protest against it.
I am live and works in the UAE, a melting pot of over 100 nationalities but the majority is Indian. One should thank the UAE nationals for their tolerance level of different nationalities; they have absolutely no problem towards colour of skin. Where as, in my office I am seeing and hearing derogatory comments, mostly in Hindi/other Indian languages (so the other nationalities could not grasp what they say) towards people from other nationalities. Those people who proclaim Aryan heritage among Indians will not spare even our brown or black skinned people from other Indian states.
My Caucasian office colleagues show high level of tolerance towards black/brown skinned people than people from India and the racial slur among Indians are common in offices/businesses in the UAE.
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Paul Handa says: June 08, 2009 at 03:01 PM IST
It is easy to write a column chastising others about the sick aspects of color and caste based discrimination. The writer should also demonstrate that his/her family setting is examplary.It is too much hot air. Indians are bound by traditions and it will take 100 plus years to break the cycle of color bias.Centuries ago, an Avatar Krishna was born. His color is shown to be dark in order to bring about equality. His teaching failed miserably. Only way to eradicate class/caste/gender/race discrimination is to have prosperity economically. US and Canada experience seems to support this argument. Furthermore, we have to chisle away all those social barriers by setting up examples rather than posturing.
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Milind says: June 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM IST
Hi,
Sorry to say but I bet neither you nor your keens/relatives caught in such a hatred/racism scene.....
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subhash vaid says: June 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM IST
what r u talking?
how u can justify what is happening in australia.
u mean to say even if some one is doing wrong,
as a human being we should not try to correct it.
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girish says: June 08, 2009 at 03:05 PM IST
Hidden racist attitude invokes racism in other equals. This what must have happened.
We must clean ourselves first, before calling somebody dirty. Otherwise they will see dirt on ourselves and behave accordingly.
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Mahima Pandey says: June 08, 2009 at 03:06 PM IST
I 100% agree with what you say. It's not that I do not feel bad about Indian Students being beaten up. We are raising so much hue & cry over this incident. When North Indians were beated up in Maharashtra did anyone or the Govt do anything about it. I lived in Mumbai for 24 years but have always whether in School, College or at work been targetted as a bhaiya!!! Is'nt that racism. Now thankfully my whole family has moved out of
Mumbai and for the last 5years have been living in a Hindi speaking state , where we feel more at home. I have come across many Maharashtrians in Bhilai and Delhi but have never heard or seen them complain that they are targetted as ghaatis nor north Indian haters.There are people saying stop writing about what is happening in India...why???? it's because truth hurts. And yes this is the truth. India is racist. I am a brahmin, my sister is married to a muslim. I have seen how some of my relatives react towards my bro-in-law or refer to muslims as 'katlu" is'nt that derogatory. The tamilians are the biggest haters of Hindi speaking people. The catholics in India are also targetted as 'pav walas" People mock the biharis. I hve many friends who are from the north east. they are often treated as foreigners. Majority of Indian as petty minded. Yeh I have faced racism in UK. But the govt does take action against the people who indulge in such acts.I have seen such people loosing their jobs if they indulge in racist acts or pass such remarks.Indian govt does nothing. Are we not racist as branding Sonia Gandhi as a foreigner?? There were so many Indians, top celebrities like Amitabh who reacted when the slums of Mumbai were shown in Slum Dog. Has India done anything about it??? It does hurt when someone brings out in the open to the world your weaknesses.Have these so called rich of India done anything for the poor.Come on Indians Grow Up...It's high time change your attitude then point fingers at the world.If you can't do this then kJUST SHUT UP.
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Abraham says: June 08, 2009 at 03:07 PM IST
I fully agree with views expressed by Jug. Instead of looking inward, we have blown this issue to a international one. Look how we treat our own Biharis in the western India or Southerners in North.The whole society is divided over caste and still we are crying from rooftops of happenings in OZ. All the national papers are giving front page news stories of some isolated incidents created by some miscreants. But we put under carpets when incidents of higher magnitude occur within our country
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sandeep says: June 08, 2009 at 03:12 PM IST
the writer is absolutely right.
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Rajat Dua says: June 08, 2009 at 03:12 PM IST
I don't think you could have put it better!!! I luv the last line.
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Ananya says: June 08, 2009 at 03:13 PM IST
Very well put. I am an Indian student in Australia and I think the way Indian media (traditional & new-media) have whipped up the frenzy (by front page splashes, multimedia slideshows, celebs expressing solidarity (which one now?)) is not just ridiculous but also dangerous. A criminal act is a criminal act, whether it is race based or opportunistic doesn't really matter. Would we have been happier if all the 'stated' attacks on Indians were plain muggings with no racial slurs involved? And to that end, the Indian government has been balanced and fair in asking the Australian government to ensure greater safety and law and order. But irresponsible sensationalist media coverage aimed at fanning fear and public anger can be very dangerous to us Indians living here as well as Australians in India.
Before pointing fingers and screaming racism let us ask ourselves a few questions:
- Are foreigners safe in India? How many foreigners have been raped/mugged/killed/kidnapped/ or plain fleeced?
- Like Jug's article says are we Indians above discrimination? Not just caste and colour, we even discriminate against sex. As a resident of Delhi working in Gurgaon there are innumerable times ive been spoken indecently to, sexual slurs, signals et al...why don't we print banners and take out rallies to end sexual discrimination first before complaining about racism
- Why didn't india take kindly to being pointed at the fact that caste-ism is akin to racism at the Durban Review Conference this year?
I am not taking sides with India or Australia here, just reminding all of us to see sense and reason before reacting with dangerous frenzy.
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Ajmal Meethal says: June 08, 2009 at 03:13 PM IST
The racist attacks on Indians in Australia is deplorable and should be condenmed. It is appalling to observe that the attacks are on the rise and is spiralling out of control. Having said that, we can run but never hide from the fact that we have enemies within and the fight against racism should start from within.
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Saps says: June 08, 2009 at 03:17 PM IST
Dear Jug,
I do agree with you on this. While it's true that we are a country with hugely diverse cultures, it does not give us an excuse to treat our own countrymen badly. Some of the comments have totally lost the point- even if other countries are rascist towards Indians at some point or the other- they have a valid excuse, we are going there and robbing them of their jobs and also some of us are upto no good. Some of us flout all the rules they have put in place and go about doing whatever nonsense we do in India. They do have a valid excuse (sometimes).
BUT what reason or excuse do WE have to treat our OWN countrymen like we do???? 98% of Indians will agree that we are prejudiced and rascist to some extent- the other 2% are LIARS!
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ram says: June 08, 2009 at 03:18 PM IST
Indians are getting beaten up in INDIA itself,,first stop the nonsense in our country,,,ofcourse this is a serious issue,,govt shud take care of it with highest priority,,,,same time this shud be stopped with in INDIA also,,,,treat humans as humans,,,,we all are equal,,,,no one has the superior power to dominate others,,,,,,,
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mona says: June 08, 2009 at 03:20 PM IST
jug has not mentioned the discrimination that sikhs face in their everyday lives; there is hardly any missed occasion where people try to flaunt their gutter sense of humour by quoting inane crude anti-sikh jokes..
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vishal says: June 08, 2009 at 03:20 PM IST
In India we have an Italian origin person, gestionning our country. So are we so racist, wehave embrace all cultures, are we so intolerant.
Australian episodes have shown the world how these forward tag society are becoming less and less tolerant toward different kind of people.
The economical turndown is showing the real colour of these hypocrit and so called liberal society.
Don't mess up with who is better and who's worst and try to criminalise what is bad.
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RJ says: June 08, 2009 at 03:21 PM IST
Request you to use your powers judiciously, it was a totally out of context rational and certainly a very mistimed one, No wonder you used 'racist' and 'Aussies' to sell this article.
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chacha says: June 08, 2009 at 03:21 PM IST
WHAT WE SEE IN AUS IS PHYSICAL VIOLENCE NOT MERE TAUNTS.
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Vinod says: June 08, 2009 at 03:28 PM IST
Sir
It was an excellent observation and loved reading it.We are the role models for all the racists in the world and the racist acts we dish out to our country men are far more despicable than we see in Oz.They are at least tryng to investigate.Here it is part of life.
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pranav mehrotra says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
It is not only people of India this is our governemnt also which divide the society based on the caste / religiuos. I think if tried apply for governemnt job or any public service exam.. there multiple columns (i think more than space avaiable for your name) for which caste you belong.. either SC/ST OBC etc .. then sub caste. Not only caste ,religion also .. see the news papers percentage wise vote distribution graph based on religion ..
This racism problem is based on the social status in india all white or fair people are considered as rich because they have money to buy good fairness creams and live in air conditioners etc.
We baised based on money and more over our governemnet is helping us to treat different caste/ religion differently.
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BhaveshP says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
Dear Mr Jug,
@For those who disagrees: This blog is not to justify the actions but to put forward the Hypocrisy that we portray
@Sanjib Kumar Biswas : Excellent examples of Hypocrisy
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Neha says: June 08, 2009 at 03:30 PM IST
Well...the article is an appropriate one, in terming as racists.. India being a diverse country has its own challenges and reasons for such behavoiur, but the only thing that i disagree here is the fact that the happenings like described cannot be equlised to what happened in Australia, the reason it is being highlighted inthe media is also the fact that the authorities are not doing anything about the issue. Beating, Killing Hitting doesnot happen in India, the challenge here is more of that of a mental one than a Physical abuse of the person.
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Vivek says: June 08, 2009 at 03:31 PM IST
Even if we accept the fact that we Indians are racist, it does not dilute the crimes committed against Indians in Australia or anywhere in the world, on the basis of our nationality. Pointing fingers at ourselves is not going to solve the problem in Australia.
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babuds says: June 08, 2009 at 03:31 PM IST
Racist slur, even in jest, like chinky, darkie or madrasi is one thing. Bashing the brains out or carving the body with a knife, based on one's color is entirely different, . These two are entirely different and hence neither equatable nor comparable. What a stupid article.
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ashutosh says: June 08, 2009 at 03:32 PM IST
Completely agreed..go to any part of India..Indian are racist most...My self faced when i was in uttranchal state . they call outside people DESI..and treat them in worst possible way...So my fellow indian learn first..
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 03:33 PM IST
Really is a shame the poor understanding that people have in this country. I am foreigner, just make a test, go with a foreigner to places like Haridwar- Rishikesh, and you will see, what a discrimination we the foreginers suffer. They dont allow foreigner people in their ashrams, they separate foreigners form indians, because they say that we are impure ( VIDESI) while indians proclaim to be pure ( DESI) ... In the west we live and work alltoghether without separating foereigners from local. Everybody cvomes to west, indians, africans, chinese, thai...and have the same rights, and we help other contries as well, giving help to the poor in the 3rd world countries... If ppl behave discriminate as it happens in India, in Europe you can go to the jail. This is bakcward in this society. Need to learn the good things from the west to get humanity. no discriminate. That is missing in this country, NO HUMANITY. After all, we are jivas, same at the eyes of God. Florencia, Italy.
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jigmet wangchuk says: June 08, 2009 at 03:33 PM IST
It is not just cast that divides india,unfortunately its also race, i am from ladakh and have been staying in new delhi for quite a while, can't remember how many times people have called me or my friends "chinky" or chow-chow or whatever. It is unlikely that i'll ever think of indians as my brothers because its hard to picture, they dont even recognise that we are from thier own country, eventhough i'll be more patriotic than the same guy calling me names, but the truth is hard to gulp down, its not a case with just me and my friends or community, people from the north east also suffer, well they suffer the most infact. i would like to type more or discuss more but i think its useless unless people of india gain some wisdom and manners by the grace of gods.
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sangu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:34 PM IST
WELLDON JUG, YOU HAVE EXPOSED THE TRUTH WITH SIMPLE WORDS.NOT EVERYONE HAS THE CAPACITY TO INTROSPECT AND COURAGE TO ACCEPT TRUTH AND THOSE WHO HAVE WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT YOU ON THIS ISSUE.
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nb says: June 08, 2009 at 03:34 PM IST
Father of modern Indian racism is British. As we all know old Indian society was subdivided according to their work(karma) and not religion or skin color.During British rule subdivision of Indian society was used to develop racial discrimination. After independence British has gone but our high societies people and politicians still cant come out of British influence.
I think author has forgot that Lord Krishna was also shyam(near to black) color and have a very high position in society that time and still now.
If somebody praise beauty that cant be racism .People are of different color and shape that doesn't mean that if I like slim figure or white color then I am racist .
I think Indian people in general are of very open heart and they will never do this kind of uncivilized act as done by Australians.
In every aspect of life whether it is sports or culture Australians behavior are always racist.
In this time we should stand united and protest Aussies rather then pointing the finger on us .
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Welkin says: June 08, 2009 at 03:38 PM IST
Mr. Jungli Bander you am sure are a type of person who can only talk and not practically do anything. a dog who barks but can never bite. why not go to australia see the situation and try to rewrite the same thing. if we are racist we dont invite people to our houses and then beat them. we simply tell them you are not allowed. if you can understand the difference you would be glad you learnt something, if no you can continue the bullshit. Thanks to Times of India to give me a chance to try to make a difference.
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INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 03:39 PM IST
Looks like the racial attack in Australia is the gods way to remind all Indians what the Tamils are going through in Srilanka. Compared to what they are going through in Srilanka the racial attacks in Ausralia is only a tea party.
However Indians have a long history of racism which can put all other racism to shade. Indian racism has every thing to do with the Aryan Dravidian divide very cleverly weaved in to the social fabric through various castes.
Look how it has become the accepted norm to coexist inspite of the caste divide. Our clever Aryan ancestors have perfected the art of racism to remain superior for ever. Now who ever hasn't shed this attitude still feel rather threatened if this divide is questioned.
If one goes to the Down under and takes a statistics it wont be a wonder to find the majority of the Indians who have migrated to Australia would be from these upper castes who by virtue of their superiority in India have had the chance to get the oppurtunity to migrate to that country and now facing the wrath of much more superior race! This is an oppurtunity to all Indians to contemplate and clean up the racist mess within India and take lesson from US.
All my sympathies to those Indians who are facing racism in Australia.
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Sanjib Kumar Biswas says: June 08, 2009 at 03:40 PM IST
Dear Jug Suraiya,
I admire your points on racism. Specially the point of African people who is having taste of Delhi campus. I am working in Africa since past three years and I can see how our Indian friends are treating with these African Citizen. Our Indian fellow treat these people as slave. And when any African people is on their head, Indian people try to be their friend. They try to butter them so save themselves. Today if our countryman facing this in Australia, is just coz of our deeds. Its really a matter of fact that, Only Indians among the Asian people are targetted with racism.
I have seen so many cases like this. If anybody comes from Amerian / Europian counties in india to work with us, we treat them as our boss and they also enjoy it. I have seen my engineer friends to carry their shoes and bags.. lol. But its ture. The reason is we feel that they will recommend us as good chap. And the same when we visit these continents American/ Europian/ Australian. And the same people when visit to African continent they become boss..lol.
@ NorBlackNorWhite,
Dear, we donn beat any foreigner from any African countries, but we avoid them from our group. And the reason why donn beat then is WE CAN'T. We afraid of LAWs..
@ Ram,
theres nothing to feel shame for mr. Jug. He just wrote his blog. And you can't deny to agree on his points. If you speak of coming to US/UK/Aus, u can see my comment on Indian people visiting those countries.
@ Avijit,
Nobody is putting any garbage here in media. You are blamming govt for this. its very easy to finger anybody, but think about the the brain darin. There are lots of MBA colleges in India, even then you moved to UK. During moving to UK, have you ever had any meeting with any govt to support you? No. But u seek help from them, when you are in danger. Don't think what govt did for you, think what u did for India.
We are really sorry for whats happening in Australia. And out govt is even working on it.
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Welkin says: June 08, 2009 at 03:42 PM IST
Wow the concept explained here is great. what mr bandi means is if we can eat fish chiken cow or pig, even these animals should be allowed to eat human being,because they are doing what we do to them so its ok. can 2 wrongs makes a right
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sendilvelan says: June 08, 2009 at 03:44 PM IST
in mumbai north indians are not alowed to work why we people cry for indian in oz. first we have to change ourself
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Chris D'Souza says: June 08, 2009 at 03:46 PM IST
I agree with Jug.
I have lived most of my life in India and just the last few years in Melbourne, Australia.
I have encountered more racism in India than I have in Melbourne. Melbourne has had a Chinese mayor for years. Indians in Melbourne are treated with respect.
The attack on Austrlians by the Indian media is disgusting. 99% of Australians (which term includes those of Greek, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Sri Lankan, Middle eastern, African origin) are fantastic people who would condemn racism without any hesitation.
Why do we condemn an entire nation and burn the effigy of the Prime Minister for the actions of a few - no matter how deplorable?
The violence against our Indian students is deplorable but I wish India would treat the issue with dignity and grace - without resorting to hysteria. Solutions can be found without whipping up a frenzy and branding an entire nation for the sins of a few.
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anjali says: June 08, 2009 at 03:46 PM IST
this is very bad jug...u should never be supporting things like this...racism.....bad bad bad
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amritansu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:47 PM IST
Its perfect. We Indians are the somehow the worst racist. We divide ourselves on the basis of language, city of origin, caste, creed, religion.
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jack says: June 08, 2009 at 03:47 PM IST
yes i fully agree with you. we indians are hypocrites. i am a south indian living in delhi. i know of so many people who talk ill of the madrasis the biharisthe chinkies etc ... the africans who study here are mocked at and spoken ill of. i had been to the US also where i found the people much more decent and respectful of others. most of our people are petty minded. no doubt.
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Rr(UK) says: June 08, 2009 at 03:50 PM IST
Today(08/06/09) i read another news on Times of India - Kamal Jit ,an Indian attacked at 1:30am in Melbourne.
Travelling at odd hours is not advisable even in India,why do you have to do that in a foreign country?. The attack could be also for money & possessions!.
I think we Indians are going high here. We have our own racial issues - Caste,religion,community.name it anything.
For God's sake, 1:30am in Delhi is even worse!(Considered most dangerous place in the world according to a poll.
Def, not supporting such attacks but we got to be practical and sensible when living away from our roots.
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Mouli says: June 08, 2009 at 03:51 PM IST
Till the time people believe in Aryan Invasion Theory (which British predominantly used to implement their Divide & Rule policy), even God can't save us.
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 03:54 PM IST
Even when we the foreigners try to do some charitable work, we face obstacles. many contradictions in this society, when the ruler is Videsi!?, we deserve human rights, as indian in the western contries, also security, and stop the corruption.
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Tushar says: June 08, 2009 at 03:54 PM IST
Mr. Jug
well do you really know what's racism all about?? I don't think so, i think you are a bit confused about racism and regionism. I have travelled a lot in Europe and i travel a lot there. Europians are racist and day by day it's increasing. You can see the result of Europian elections now a days. Thay think that they are very inteligent and have invented everything other then europians no nothing and doesn't worth anything. That's racism. As for as India is concerned we have problem of regions but that's very natural as it's a huge country with different languages and different races. But we still sit together eat together. We have given so many names but we don't beat people on the road just becuase they have different colour, culture, and relegion.
I am doing reaserach in history, politics and relegion more 20 years. And i can tell you indians are the only population didn't have and don't have still racism problem.
As for as the aryans and dravidians are concerned so my dear we don't have any prouf of battles amongs them for racism.
All invented by historians (britishers, franch and germans) as they were racist so for them it was a war for colour but we don't have any archelogy or history evidence as such.
But unfortunately people like you who doesn't have even knowldege of history write this kind of articles. Just copying the what we got in legacy from europians.
I travelled a lot in India from North to south and yes we have problems of language mainly to communicate between us that's the biggest barrier we have and this duo to our politicians after indipendence to get votes. But we people as such have big problems.
Next time before writing an article like this go and meet people in India and study well our history.
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INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 03:58 PM IST
INDIA IS A COUNTRY WHICH WORSHIPS WHITE.IF YOU WANT PROOF LOOK IN TO THE MATRIMONIAL COLUMNS. ONLY FAIR GROOMS / BRIDE GROOMS PREFERED. ALL BLACK LOOKING INDIANS/ NEGROES , AND FLAT NOSED MONGOLIAN RACE PEOPLE ARE BRUSHED ASIDE LIKE SOME UNTOUCHABLES.
THE RACISM IS IMMORTALISED IN ALL OUR VEDIC AND MYTHOLOGICAL TEXTS BY COLOURING ALL NEGATIVE CHARACTERS IN BLACK AND UGLY LOOKING BY THERE STANDARDS. THIS HAS CREPT IN TO THE LATEST COMICS TOO. JUST SEE COMIC SERIAL "BHEEM" . THE NEGATIVE CHARACTER IS NOT ONLY COLOURED BLACK BUT HIS NAME ITSELF IS KALIA. WE NEED TO CLEAN UP OUR PSYCHE FIRST BEFORE POINTING FINGERS AT AUSTRALIA!
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RK says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
Wake up to reality.
When you are in Rome,you can only be like a Roman but cannot be a Roman.
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ashu says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
Hatred in all forms should be condemned.But Will somebody tell me what is the difference between the attack on Indian Students in Australia and the very same even more violent attacks on the persons from UP and Bihar in Mumbai ???
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goo says: June 08, 2009 at 03:59 PM IST
ok
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VJ says: June 08, 2009 at 04:00 PM IST
Absolutely true ....
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Mike says: June 08, 2009 at 04:01 PM IST
This topic can be discussed on only papers. If we are not happy here we should get united and should not support it. Why are we working for them. Must thing is most of the Australians are unaware of Indian hospitality, culture and other systems and think like other poor countries in the word. UK, USA, Canada know much about indian and that is why they respect us. Indians are capable of turning things other way and that is what the episode is all about. We are hard working, we have brain and the most important thing is we wish to see dream and want the best possible life.
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sadananda says: June 08, 2009 at 04:04 PM IST
Misleading Article
The core issue is Whether the attack on Indians on OZ soil is justifiable?? What are the solutions? Where went wrong? Whether Indians are not following the LAW of the Land?? What made government of OZ become insensitive of these issues are to be discussed.
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MAKARAND says: June 08, 2009 at 04:05 PM IST
VERY WELL WRITTEN AND BEING FRANK WE ARE RACIST IN ARE DAILY LIFE
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Ajit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:05 PM IST
Joy, you are certainly a die-hard castiest. May be you should try to make Australia your home.
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Srini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:06 PM IST
So absolutely true.Being a black(why call it dark?)South Indian in a Pune school, oh was I continously ragged everyday throughout the years. Made me a sick and depressed kid who couldn't do anything right.As kids and teenagers do, thought that black was automatically ugly. Indians are absolutely racist.Even now OBC's bemoan the fact that twenty years ago in small towns , scheduled castes never sat down in the same area in a tea stall but on the ground. If that's not racism, what is? So identifying slights is easy for people who give and take slights like these everyday.
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joel haokip says: June 08, 2009 at 04:08 PM IST
I completely agree with this write-up! I had witness lots of discrimination almost in all spheres in India. For Instance, during the last T20 world cup match between Pakistan and India, Muslims were taunted as if they were Pakistanis and even some create communal passions inside the hall where we had watch the play. In Mainland India, North-easterners are discriminated and teased them by calling ‘Chinky’and the same happens for mainland Indians in the North-east by calling them ‘Mayang’, ‘kolvom’ or ‘Vais’ meaning ‘outsiders’ or ‘hairy people’. If being an Indian and we cannot view each other as the same, do you expect for a fair treatment in outside India? A mere geographical Integrity without emotional integrity would be meaningless and it is time to learn a lesson from at least what is happening in the present in OZ.
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Aditya says: June 08, 2009 at 04:08 PM IST
As far as what I have observed, in India we have racism within Indians only, we don't beat or abuse students/professionals who come from other countries(Aus or US..) rather we respect them and treat them more than anything else. Then why is it happening with Indians only. When we treat foreigners with respect why can't they behave in same manner. Previously there was incident of France Airlines, and now this. Internally we treat Maharashtrians, Biharis, Tamils in different manner but this our internal matter, don't forget these countries took 100+years to overcome internal racism, please give some time to India too. If this would have been done in India with some Aus, would then Aus government have reacted in same manner? Indian government is unable force anybody to improve the situation It is veryyyyyy weak. Coward
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Praveen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Mr. Suraiya maybe correct is saying that we Indians are racists. But then he needs to substantiate it with specific claims, which he does not do. He should also notice that there is a subtle difference between being ignorant and conciously harming someone because of their colour, or other recognizable chracteristics. Using "names" for others without thought of consequences is mostly due to ignorance. It has nothing to do with racism. He mentions about ads for partners. In those advertisements people state their preferences. The same way one may purchase a red, gren, or yellow car. The same argument applies for beauty creams. It is a question of preferences and has nothing to do with "racism." The other question is why we have these preferences? This is a deeper question. He also mentions about the caste system. It exists to varying degrees all over the world, not just in India. Should it be abolished, yes, but again it has nothing to do with racism. Regarding stereotypes, yes, Chinese do eat gods and snakes. The same was Indian eat LOTS OF RICE. Humans, have a natural tendency to classify, i.e., dark, brown, white, pale, or tall, short, heavy, etc. One should not confuse this with racism. Racism is a concious act where one causes harm to another based on their profile. Mr. Suraiya needs to understand these subtle differences before making claims. As they say, "The more we know, the more we know the less we know." The opposite applies here, "The less we know, the more we think we know."
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Amit Madan says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Well, this is true and I would like to higlight another point here, which I dint see in any comments I browsed through quickly, is that when UPs and Biharis are beaten in Mumbai what do we call it racism / castism / regionalism? Well, In india itself we beat people belonging to other region so why to hue and cry about Australians. I am not defending the Aus behaviour but just trying to make a point that we ourselves also need to be changed before we try to change others.
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Vj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:09 PM IST
Well...I do understand what Jug has to say...and I think he has a valid point! I have been living in Sydney for the past 5years and let me tell u Sydney is a beautiful place...Most of my friends here are Aussie and they are gorgeous people...I have never had any issues with them...I shall tell u why, I believe in the simple saying " When in Rome, behave as Romans". If you live the way you live in your own country and expect people to accept u..well ur mistaken!!!If u try to bend the rules and act like a wannabe just because ur in a foreign land and u think ur too cool...well then ur the biggest fool!!!!Iam not justifying what is happening in Melbourne...it is completely wrong, there is no excuse for physical violence,but i dont think its anything to do with racism!!!every community in every country are attacked...whether its India,Australia,Uk or USA..Every country has few anti- social elements who spoil the peace of the society...but that doesnt make u generalise and say Australian is a racist country and the Australian govts does nothing to protect the Indians...Well u tell me how which govt in any country can protect each and every area and suburb of the nation?And now i feel, becos of these absolutely stupid rallys in Melbourne and Sydney...these foolish protesters are agitating people who are not even aware of the racism issue...Please stop this and leave it upto the government...Voice ur thoughts...but in the right way!!!!!!VJ,Sydney
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Freddy says: June 08, 2009 at 04:10 PM IST
TOI comes up with blogs which usually gives us the feeling that a blog is an unrefined, rough patch up work when compared to professional editorial material.
But I have to say it is blogs like these that prove people how thoughtful and deep a blog could penetrate. Hats off Jug!!!
Of course India screaming on Australia's racism in one fact is like a blind man complaining about a short sighted person...
Though we are aware of this fact, I should say we can't and should not stop screaming at the Aussies, as we don't wish our Bro's and Sis's in Australia to pay the price and be victims of racism.
Its easy to correct short sightedness than curing blindness!!!
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Gary says: June 08, 2009 at 04:11 PM IST
Racism exists everywhere, it maybe true that racism exists over here, so does that mean, first we should wait for racism to get over here, then only we have a right to speak against racism. Australians are the first to rant about racism, but they have a problem of racism againt their own indigenous population of original aborigines. This time Indians have been attacked in a foreign country, all these local Indians in India should stop ranting talks about racism in India and they should better concentrate on Deploring actions in an Alien country.
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Gary says: June 08, 2009 at 04:11 PM IST
Racism exists everywhere, it maybe true that racism exists over here, so does that mean, first we should wait for racism to get over here, then only we have a right to speak against racism. Australians are the first to rant about racism, but they have a problem of racism againt their own indigenous population of original aborigines. This time Indians have been attacked in a foreign country, all these local Indians in India should stop ranting talks about racism in India and they should better concentrate on Deploring actions in an Alien country.
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rom says: June 08, 2009 at 04:13 PM IST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jug u are talking totally OUT OF THE FKIN BOUNCE
applying fairness cream is nothing to do with racizm. U moron.
Do u really thing people apply fairness cream to change the race(race by definition = the root of origin).
Idiots like you mix the subject and make things worst, rather than alleviating the situation u are flaming it up. Just because to satisfy your damn cynical sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and ofcouse cast system still prevails in India b'cos of illiteracy and India will take care of it very soon.
Every one knows its just few political parties that uses cast system for vote banks and thats all.
In the end I would just say that Australian govt. should take action against those who are threat to Australian Education business.
Lets face it every society has few nitwits who do these demonstrations to gain attainment.
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Prof. P P Bahuguna says: June 08, 2009 at 04:15 PM IST
Jug Suraiyya should be sent to Australia. He will come to his senses when Australian racisis break his head. By writinf this letter is he justifying what is happenning in Australia? It has become a fashion with some of so called India 'journalists' to write againsts indians in all situations - whether beating or getting beaten!! Shame on them if they cant stand with countymen and do nat have courage to deplore the wrong doer.
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sumeet saini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
There is no denying that we (pre independence era indians)are bunch of biggest racials. We never treat individuals as individuals - he is banya, or jatta da munda or cham**r etc is very common to hear. We type cast and generalise every thing. If north indians can get beaten up in maharashta and nothing is done I think even Indian government has no right to raise this question, we should first clean your house than look outside.
Second and major point, when we go to some new culture we dont adopt it and ridicule it or write it down and then does not care for local rules and cultre. The fact also is many of indian groups dont behave properly there and others ( innocents ) have to pay the price.
Last thing, half of the students dont go to study there but to earn and settle and thus take up lower level jobs rather than high skilled jobs and this leads to raised eyebrows... How many students adhere to 20 hrs a week schedule ? none so its but obvious to have problems sooner or laer,definatly in recession.
Agree (10) Disagree (15)
chstrig says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
Jug Suraiya is such a clueless individual that it almost makes one feel ashamed to have read even a sentence of his lousy columns. Simply seeking attention at an age when he should've been capable of demanding it without asking for it. In India, however, talentless freaks like Jug can easily claim some kind of stardom and pass their entire lives writing nonsense which, believe it or not, finds praise. In Australia the Indians are getting beaten up till their last breath and Jug wants to equate that with the kind of "racism" Indians exercise in favor of something they find beautiful. Indians are free to exercise their right to call one attribute more desirable over the other as long as they don't go around beating up the attributes they don't care for. Is that happening? Why isn't that happening? Elimination of racism shouldn't eliminate the act (or art) of preference now should it? And while one prefers something they are at the same time prefering it over some other thing - some other thing that they don't like. Now, if Jug Suraiya had any sense whatsoever he would've figured that out by himself. And chances are, he probably has but then writing something that makes sense, that is completely true wouldn't have made for a distinct headline. At this present moment while everyone is derailing Australia, Jug decided to take the unique line of thought and has tried to derail his own countrymen. But the inefficient manner in which he has tried to pull that stunt off shows that Jug is merely hungry for some attention which basically renders him as a pointless, unimportant, hack of a journalist. In fact, not even a journalist. Irrespective of how many people on here agree with him, Jug probably knows what a lousy job he has done. And if he doesn't know then he is capable of no deep insight.
Agree (7) Disagree (11)
Prof. P P Bahuguna says: June 08, 2009 at 04:16 PM IST
Jug Suraiyya should be sent to Australia. He will come to his senses when Australian racisis break his head. By writinf this letter is he justifying what is happenning in Australia? It has become a fashion with some of so called India 'journalists' to write againsts indians in all situations - whether beating or getting beaten!! Shame on them if they cant stand with countymen and do nat have courage to deplore the wrong doer.
Agree (7) Disagree (8)
Abu Akram says: June 08, 2009 at 04:18 PM IST
I agree partly. What we have India is different. India is color coded and cast coded and diversity of rich and poor. Indian always almost have given high grades to "white" and " gora" . There is different of North Indian/South Indian. There is racist society in Americas also, but that is changing very much. If you do not like Australia, do not stay there- come back home and live with dignity( officially and politically Indian Govt is not doing anything to find out reality) We are carried of by the media like America(USA)
Make your own judgment. We achieved ecadomically so much in the world stage that we should be able judge what racism.
Agree (10) Disagree (7)
SK says: June 08, 2009 at 04:19 PM IST
Physical assaults based on race / caste are indeed deplorable. However, the hysteria in Indian media is puzzling. As a result of over-exaggerated media coverage, there is a charged-up mood in Melbourne. As a result, people like me who had never feared enjoying leisurely late evening walks in the vibrant streets of Melbourne CBD, now have to worry about personal safety.
It’s a real sad state of affairs….!!!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:20 PM IST
IT HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA, that even when our people were discriminated against; some of us are still wondering-- how can a white be wrong/bad..
GREAT PARADOX-- of this article is that the writer himself is having deep hidden sense of inferiority & identity crisis for being born black!!! the British shahab, whom his forefathers used to serve, is still a role model hero for him & unfortunately, for many others..
India is one of the most tolerant countries, otherwise democracy would not have survived, in a country of such diversity.. you think so because you always thought yourselves to be a marathi/ punjabi/hindu/ dalit, & never as an indian.. but, for those who think themselves to be indians, everything gets amalgamated.. the whole world wonders how can we be a single country!! it in itself proves our tolerence.. as someone allready mentioned-- minorities got extinguished in many countries, but not in india.. Discrimination do exist in india, but its an exception & not a rule.. that too, due to factors like poverty, illiteracy etc..
WHY DISCUSSING COLOURS?? INDIANS WERE TARGETED, SO WE ARE ANGRY & HENCE OUR REACTION.. NO MATTER WHO HE IS, HE MUST GET THE LESSION.. THATS IT..
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Rein says: June 08, 2009 at 04:21 PM IST
Look at the current problem first, before singing a song " I am a racist" or we are racist. Don't include me in your " We are more racist" You might be racist, but I m not, in my family, there is a true integration of different families from all parts of India.
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Abu Akram says: June 08, 2009 at 04:22 PM IST
I agree partly. What we have India is different. India is color coded and cast coded and diversity of rich and poor. Indian always almost have given high grades to "white" and " gora" . There is different of North Indian/South Indian. There is racist society in Americas also, but that is changing very much. If you do not like Australia, do not stay there- come back home and live with dignity( officially and politically Indian Govt is not doing anything to find out reality) We are carried off by the media like American(USA)
Make your own judgment. We achieved ecadamically so much in the world stage that we should be able judge what racism.
Agree (10) Disagree (7)
amit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:23 PM IST
yess we indianss r the biggest racist,in everyy corner of india people dicriminate each other under name of CASTE,COLOUR,STATE,RICH,POOR,RELIGION,COUNTRY..ETC.
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Florencia says: June 08, 2009 at 04:25 PM IST
We also get extra price for every item, because shopkeepers think we should pay extra. While indians go to abroad to get more money and fame. How many charitable hospitals, ashrams, and big enterprises have been made by foreigner support??, indians like our money, but still is discrimination against us in India...no compassion in the land of Sanatan Dharma.
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Kris says: June 08, 2009 at 04:26 PM IST
INDIA IS BIGGEST RACIST COUNTRY I HAVE EVER SEEN, AFTER LIVING IN EUROPE, US AND AUS.
90% Indians are very greedy, no respect to others, no respect to society.
For sure, students travelling to US/UK/AUS should learn foreign culture, life and values first. Instead of flocking like gays and nuisance at public places, loud music, Cheating shops by returning items after 30 days, staring at couples.
80% Indians in abroad doesn't know manners. AUS have every right to teach a lesson.
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Varun (UK & MUMBAI) says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
Hi there people,
Although the blogger is right in many ways about what he has said. We Indians are racist but we use these terms and terminology in not so offensive and humourous ways. We might call Africans Negros or Habshis or White 'Chitti CHamri' or 'GORA PAKORA' but we are never violent! We use these terms for sure but I have never seen or heard that Indians attacked any African, White or N-E students are tourists anywhere in India! We are racist for fun but we are never racist with violence! I have lived half my life in UK and now I am living in India and I can assure you, there is a lot more violent Racism present in UK, USA and Europe then we have in India.
The main problem that we can talk about is Hindu-Muslim rivalry or agitations but that is result of centuries of bad relations and mistrust and the so obvious history!
India and Indians are not racist in true terms! What is happening in Australia, be it part of a larger problem in Australia, the fact is these are guests in someone's country and as hosts it is there responisibility to take care of them.
Just becuase a guest is living in someone's house, it does not become ok that they get attacked too if the house owners have problems!!!!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
NOT BECAUSE OF WHETHER HE IS A FAIR INDIAN/ OR, DARK INDIAN.. WE ARE ANGRY, BECAUSE A FELLOW INDIAN IS HIT.. A COUNTRY AS POWERFUL AS OURS, SHOULD HAVE THAT SENSE OF POWERFUL IDENTITY.. BUT, THESE SO CALLED SCHOLARS/ JOURNALIST, AS IS THE WRITER HERE, WITH DEEP SEATED INFERIORITY/ LACK OF SELF RESPECT; WHO HIMSELF LACKS INSIGHT INTO HIS MENTAL STATE, IS TEACHING US HOW TO INTROSPECT..
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Abhinav says: June 08, 2009 at 04:28 PM IST
Even if racism or casteism exists in India,we are not blind to it. The Africans and the 'chinkies' are not 'assaulted' in Delhi. And moreover we are not blind to this issue. If casteism exists,we accept it and have done measures to curb the same. If Africans or others were to be attacked in Delhi,hundreads of Indians only will hold a protest march. This does not happen in Oz. All we want from Australia is to accept that racial attacks have taken place and find measures to deal with it. Indian students are not some illegal migrants. Neither have they approached the Australian universities. Rather it is the australian Universities which come to India and advertise in Educational Fairs. Go to one of such fares in Pragati Maidan in Delhi and see for yourself how Indian students are lured to study in Oz.
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Rein says: June 08, 2009 at 04:30 PM IST
Its an International Issue, stop outflow of US Dollars to Australia. I always knew about Australia, as a decade back too, there were few attacks on people of Asian origin, this time, there are attacks on Indians. Chinese were earlier targets. The fact is young teens in Australia don't care about elders, they are illiterate,and uneducated. Mostly come from rural background, and they don't know what to do in cities as they are not educated. Indians being concentrating on their studies and professional life, don't indulge in violence, hence they become soft targets. Call the Aussie ambassador again, and put more pressure or Come out with an advisory, if Govt fails then we are going to come out with advisories.
Agree (20) Disagree (68)
len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
As an indian living for the last 20 yrs in Australia,I know where the real problem lies about the indian students.It is certainly not about australians being racist as indians are the number one racist in the world.Just look at any matrimonial add in any indian newspaper and you will know what I am talking about.As for the indian students I think I know the problem.First they all seem to roam in packs either speaking loudly in hindi or some local dialect.Secondly the way they stare at white women you would think they haven't seen women in their lives.Thirdly most of them cannot speak proper english and make no attempt to learn the language.Fourthly most of them are enrolled in such shady colleges that the only thing they are promised is permanent residnecy after they finish their course.I for one would think most of them would be more comfortable in Bangladesh than in Australia.I am sure most of them come from small towns or villages.I grew up in India all those years ago where most college students were smart.I cannot help but think the worst of the students are coming here.Finally I think it would help if these students made an attempt to fit in to their new environmennt rather than going out to demonstrate and do all the big talk when the cameras are on them.They are certainly a disgrace.
Agree (31) Disagree (11)
babuds says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
Racist slur, even in jest, like chinky, bhaiya, darkie or madrasi is one thing. Bashing the brains out or carving the body with a knife, based on one's color is entirely different, . These two are entirely different and hence neither equatable nor comparable. What a stupid article.
Agree (21) Disagree (35)
Raghu says: June 08, 2009 at 04:32 PM IST
Hello...
Firstly well said Mr.Jug,I am a resident of Austraia from past 6 years and am well settled in a job in Melbourne.
Who says there is no racism in India? we can enjoy treating someone with all sorts of racists acts and abuses, but sorry we cannot afford to be treated or abused racially!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well,what else could be a better example for hypocrites.
Also, i think some one mentioned about the media in India, the are so very excited to cover the stories in ozeland, but cannot care a damn about girls thrashed in the pub,marathas attacked on the street,tamilians attacked in Blore,north eastern states' people treated as foreigners to INDIA..........
Well done TIMES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lastly, lets not forget, we are the visitors to this country, they never invited us.....
lets also think which is critical,
whether an Indian not safe in India or Indian not safe in AUS?????
Agree (17) Disagree (9)
INDIAN says: June 08, 2009 at 04:34 PM IST
THANKS TO AUSTRALIANS , YOU HAVE GIVEN AN OPPURTUNITY FOR INDIANS TO INTROSPECT ON ITS OWN RECORD OF RACISM. INDIANS PLEASE GROW UP FAST.WE NEED TO BE UNITED IN THIS GLOBAL VILLAGE CALLED EARTH.
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Vijay says: June 08, 2009 at 04:34 PM IST
This is 100% true. We practice a harder racism than any other country in this world. We double speak and we are hypocrites. We dont allow dalits to enter the temples. We mistreat poor people, never give them the respect that a fellow human deserves. We bash rikshaw wallas for 5Rs. We haggle with sabji wallas for 2 rs. We dont allow out housemaids to be a part of the family. We are divided in the colleges by reservation and categories. We are divided by regionalism (Bihar vs MNS). We are divided by religion (Ram temple, masjids blah blah). We do not have a right to call others racists unless we correct ourselves. Obvisouly despite being allegedly "racist", Australian society is way better than Indian society, otherwise why would people spend huge money to go and live there.
Agree (17) Disagree (10)
M Manoj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:36 PM IST
There are people of particular social status being beaten, thrashed,assaulted, molested, raped, murdered, burned, humiliated, forced to drink urine,paraded naked, face blackened and so on JUG is simply reminding us when some students who can afford to study in Australia are beaten.
I study in New Zealand and I everyday see how our fellow Indians behave arrogantly in campuses. Thank God its not Australia.
But this does not mean I don't care what's happening in Australia.
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askj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
Very well said.. the last para sums up the whole truth. It does happen in india. and there are perverts who do it.
Agree (5) Disagree (13)
ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
WHITE COLOUR IS PREFERED OVER BLACK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS!! WHITE EMITS ALL LIGHT & BLACK ABSORBS ALL.. JUST LOOK AT THE COLOR OF YOUR SHIRT & YOU WILL FIND IT YOURSELF, THAT WHITE IS CLEANER WHICH YOU PREFER.. OUR PREFERENCE IS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF LIGHT/ OUR RATINA/BRAIN..
& BLACK'S ARE NOT DISADVANTAGED.. BLACKS HAVE LESS RISK OF MELANOMA THAN WHITES-- A CLEAR BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE.. SIMILARLY, WHITE SKIN ALSO HAVE OTHER ADVANTAGES..
Agree (57) Disagree (15)
Romit says: June 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM IST
Absurd Blog topic, Author is not interested in building consensus to fight racism (racial terrorism) rather than lecturing us.
Agree (10) Disagree (8)
M Manoj says: June 08, 2009 at 04:39 PM IST
Jug is in fact talking about "ism", you can write anything before it - race, caste, region and the result will be somewhat the same or it depends what you justify :)
Agree (12) Disagree (9)
Naveen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:40 PM IST
I feel sorry for the people suffering from racism and we must fight to stop it.
However, you can't blame someone racist when entire Hindu religion is based on racism .
My only concern is why media is so discriminating about its own citizens in India.
Every day 2 dalit woman are raped and 1 man killed due to this Hindu caste system. Why don't Media prints it....cos all the higher caste people control media.
First clean you home, then tell others home is dirty.
Agree (6) Disagree (12)
transport says: June 08, 2009 at 04:42 PM IST
I subscribe to your views. Racism remains in the blood of human. be it between indian and european or among indians. Among same caste and community.
I have seen people distance themselves just because of the colour.
Agree (6) Disagree (7)
ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 04:42 PM IST
WHOM WILL YOU MARRY-- JENIFER LOPEZ/ HELLY BERRY ETC OR, PARIS HILTON ??
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ravi patel says: June 08, 2009 at 04:44 PM IST
finally someone has spoken about this. we indians have a bad habit of seeing ourselves as holly being's who can do no wrong. i have been in australia for a while now and i can proudly say that australia has been really nice to me. we should look at the evils with in us and our society, before acting like I!D!O!TS and calling the whole country racist and burning effigies.
Agree (31) Disagree (7)
vidya says: June 08, 2009 at 04:45 PM IST
its not fair on part of some indians to justify the racist attacks on indians in australia on the basis that indians themselves are racist......not denying that SOME indians are racist..its a problem to be solved within ourselves.....and not to be punished by firangis....moreover they are attacking innocent indians who maynot be racist as said by some....they are already hurt and abused......such comments by their own fellow citizens will furthur annoy them...its easy to comment on others sufferings sitting at home....hard to suffer yourself...pls dont justify these brutal attacks on indians.....by announcing your own motherland as racist..
Agree (11) Disagree (6)
mohan says: June 08, 2009 at 04:45 PM IST
i m 1000 percent agree with ur points and wanted to say when our govt cant stop this racism in country itself , u can see every where in india....
Agree (15) Disagree (8)
len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:46 PM IST
As an indian living for the last 20 yrs in Australia,I know where the real problem lies about the indian students.It is certainly not about australians being racist as indians are the number one racist in the world.Just look at any matrimonial add in any indian newspaper and you will know what I am talking about.As for the indian students I think I know the problem.First they all seem to roam in packs either speaking loudly in hindi or some local dialect.Secondly the way they stare at white women you would think they haven't seen women in their lives.Thirdly most of them cannot speak proper english and make no attempt to learn the language.Fourthly most of them are enrolled in such shady colleges that the only thing they are promised is permanent residnecy after they finish their course.I for one would think most of them would be more comfortable in Bangladesh than in Australia.I am sure most of them come from small towns or villages.I grew up in India all those years ago where most college students were smart.I cannot help but think the worst of the students are coming here.Finally I think it would help if these students made an attempt to fit in to their new environmennt rather than going out to demonstrate and do all the big talk when the cameras are on them.They are certainly a disgrace.
Agree (15) Disagree (38)
len aaron says: June 08, 2009 at 04:48 PM IST
I think the students should go back to india if they feel victimised.Maybe they can feel like first class citizen and marry the girl their mummies want them to.
Agree (8) Disagree (9)
Kamalpreet says: June 08, 2009 at 04:50 PM IST
Within India........some one beats you on the name of caste. Outside india, on the name of race.
Solution : self protection.........else make it a habbit
Agree (15) Disagree (7)
sumeet saini says: June 08, 2009 at 04:52 PM IST
There is no denying that we (pre independence era indians)are bunch of biggest racials. We never treat individuals as individuals - he is banya, or jatta da munda or cham**r etc is very common to hear. We type cast and generalise every thing. If north indians can get beaten up in maharashta and nothing is done I think even Indian government has no right to raise this question, we should first clean your house than look outside.
Second and major point, when we go to some new culture we dont adopt it and ridicule it or write it down and then does not care for local rules and cultre. The fact also is many of indian groups dont behave properly there and others ( innocents ) have to pay the price.
Last thing, half of the students dont go to study there but to earn and settle and thus take up lower level jobs rather than high skilled jobs and this leads to raised eyebrows... How many students adhere to 20 hrs a week schedule ? none so its but obvious to have problems sooner or laer,definatly in recession.
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Iumen says: June 08, 2009 at 04:54 PM IST
I totally agree with this article. As a fellow Indian from the North east and residing in Sydney, I feel that whatever has happened here has been projected beyond that is required.The irony is that I have personally experienced racism in India but not here. Having said that, I am not saying whatever events that has happened here is justified,but it has been exaggerated in India. The reason why most Indians have a problem here is because they cannot accept and adjust to the way another society live and behave.They bring with them the same mentality,attitude, manners and behaviour that they are so used to India.They lack the kind of respect that people here expect everyone to have. Hence because of certain kind of people (Im not saying that everyone behaves the same way)the Indian name is tarnished. Until and unless the mentality and behaviour of these certain individuals change, I guess everyone here will still have a hard time. It is right that the government of Australia need to tackle these problems more seriously and make sure that nothing happens to anyone.Solution need to be both ways.
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paresh jain says: June 08, 2009 at 04:55 PM IST
Disagrre with the point.
We should not compare racism in India with what is happening in Australia. If u are saying about attraction to fair and white then it is just obvious but it never means that we beat the black people or we have any bad feeling for these people.
Here so many north indians are living in south and vice versa but there are very less chances to beat these people based on their colour except some incidence of your bad time.
But definitely comparing this with australia things just show how we are making ourselver weaken in front of world.
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Renu Singh says: June 08, 2009 at 04:56 PM IST
Everywhere racism is being maintained in one or other way, only name’s are different :-
1) Castism : our leader used to do in the name of reservation to preserve there vote bank
2) In mumbai Indians beaten up that to by Indian only in the name of North India
3) And how TamilNadu is treats to Hindi (National Language) and other’s language people
It would be great to stay on this topic. We are certainly more racist than others. I am against the racism incident in Australia, but why don’t we wake up and stop physical violence and let people live with peace. I request you to kindly look at the above mentioned point and many more, stand up togather and let India grow with peace and Harmony.
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Hudinang says: June 08, 2009 at 04:59 PM IST
Hi Jug,Well said.Racism is happening within india.e.g Against Dalits,south indian,NE ppl..etc.First,we sud see how racism is happeining in india itself.See,bhai aur bheno,they(whites)are attacking particularly indians as they think indians are dirty(littering)..where ever they go.they are very particular on cleanliness.are they attacking other ppl???they attacking esp.indian looking ppl.so i strongly suugest everyindian to stop littering. After seeing india,...all those garbage and litters...they think...we are polluting there land when we go there...Aus,US,europe...
So dear frens...be cool. attacks will go on...so take good care of your selves.
Jai hind !!
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ssx says: June 08, 2009 at 05:11 PM IST
It seems that vast majority of you think that since indians are more racist, australians are justified even if they kill our people!!
ok, then.. why we are discussing those incidence/ demanding action??
if all were justified acts.. so, why complaining, let things continue the same way!!!!!! let our fellow indians learn it the harder way!!!!!!!
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MK says: June 08, 2009 at 05:12 PM IST
I agree with the author on topics related to cast, ill treatment of dalits and others. It is definitely inhuman, and I doubt if there are any other such horrendous systems that exist anywhere around the world. But I totally disagree on things such as "chinkis", "madrasis", "kallus" etc being 'discriminatory'. Yes, they are sometimes used and in derogatory terms and are very rude, but we don't beat up people unnecessarily for just being from the north east, we don't refuse admissions in schools because someone is dark skinned, we don't loot up people because they are from South India. In fact, having been born and brought up in Delhi I can say that I have a lot of friends in my group whom we often call "chinki" or "madrasi", and they in turn have other names they call us but all 'just for fun'. It is just our diversity and country's variety that leads to this, and I don't see anything wrong here as long as there is no ill treatment. But this is not what is happening in Australia, Indians are being ill treated, beaten up and looted, just because they are from India. I am currently studying in the United States, and have never fortunately experienced anything racist, nor have I heard any one my friends there complaining of anything remotely related to racism. But a lot of my friends in Australia complain of discrimination, and the arrogance of Aussies. Australia is just not tolerant enough, decent enough or responsible enough to host students from another country, as has been made clear recently. In fact, the Aussie cricket team is a good example of how that country is-indecent and arrogant! Its just how they are, and how they have been brought up.
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anjali says: June 08, 2009 at 05:15 PM IST
Its been 100s of years for racism in India ,but things did improve in India .It would take time for it to vanish completely .But what about the UK and Australia ,they are considered to be modern and developed countries right ? ? Why do they have do all this ?
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Venkat says: June 08, 2009 at 05:16 PM IST
Two wrongs do not make a right. Jug's comments on racism in India that need fixing - is right but also irrelevant. What is happening in Australia is beyond racism. They are hate crimes and a form of terrorism against hapless Indians, who have merely come to study there.
No parallels there Jug! Major problem with Indians is - they get into introspection when they should urge resolution to prevent loss of lives.
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R.N.Sujir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:22 PM IST
There is an old saying"live like a first class citizen in your own country rather than a third class citizen in any other country'.This is true for any citizen of any country and not for Indians alone.Racism has nothing to do with it.Do we not see countless examples of people getting affected in various places across the world.
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P. Ramana says: June 08, 2009 at 05:28 PM IST
After having read This whole article and comments i can guarantee that it is a stageshow of Austarlian govt' public relation exercise who seems ashamed of what is happeneing in Australia.This kind of counter aggression is typical trait of Australians.Those who call indians racist dont understand meaning of racist.I am from Tamilnadu i would be called tamilian where is racism in this ? Did'nt I fight for changing Madras to Chennai for having that identity? If some one is buying a skin whitening cream are'nt white people undergo tanning to change the way they look ? How is that racism ? Some fools even commented indians charge more for a TAJ visit from foreigners what a pity these people dont know in how many counteries there are different rates for foreign visitors. Dont poople know that international students pay higher fees den native students in many european/ North American universities ? Is that racism ? People fighting for jobs is not racism. Even casteism is not racism. As india rises there will be lot of talk of casteism by white knights as they can not tolerate the change.And they would buy conscience of a Jugsurya and would den flood letters sections.Indian students in Aus have legitimate visa, paid the fees, pay for their living expenses, obey the law of the land why they are being targetted ? because Mr. Jug "thinks" indians are racist ? It is an insult even to publish such blogs
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Anand says: June 08, 2009 at 05:28 PM IST
The author's could have done a better job. There is no doubt that casteism is a bigger problem than racism. Even though i belong to upper caste, i do not know when will people begin accepting that caste should not be the basis on which merit is determined. anyhow India's standards have been low from the independence day and i do not expect miracle to happen soon. Our Legal system is so good that it will never focus on common people's problem ever in India. They do not have time for common people...
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Sandhir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:31 PM IST
everything mentioned in the blog is right!
The problem is with the Title - We don't cause bodily injuries to people!
The article talks about Africans being called “Habshi” in North India but it is not like they are specifically getting victimized.
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Shergill says: June 08, 2009 at 05:33 PM IST
My dear Sir
All most all of us in India are the same race. The differences you are talking about are regional and not based on race. Do you think there is no rivalry between sydney siders and melburnians. Donot try to justify attacks on Indians by Australians. Come to Melbourne and live in the Western or Northern Suburbs for a month and use public transport (at odd hours) instead of a car and I assure you will go back to India with only a few unbroken bones. Its easy to write such articles sitting in your ac rooms in comfortable chairs.
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hortense vaughan says: June 08, 2009 at 05:40 PM IST
It is heartening to see that many Indians see the racism in their own society and I have heard of Indians complaining that the women of southern India are undesirable because they are so black.
The racism in your society does not justify or lessen the evil of the racial attacks on Indian students in Australia or the attacks
on Dalits Muslims Sikhs and Christians in India.
Ghandi was non racist and a great human being but now is looked upon as an old fashioned and out dated.
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Shakti says: June 08, 2009 at 05:43 PM IST
Another ill-timed, insensitive & thoughtless piece of 'wisdom'.
Men like these have been in all ages in our country...
When foreigners attacked us, they said "Ahimsa paramo dharma! "
When our nation was subjugated, they said "Vasudeivo kutumbakam!"
Jug surayya & people like him are just so ashamed of being Indians!
Their only contribution is to create confusion with ill-sounding logic & concocted arguments & that too at sensitive times.
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Vinoth Kumar says: June 08, 2009 at 05:44 PM IST
Racism is ugly and unacceptable wherever it happens. Things going in australia is sad as everyone of us know . At the same time as authour said, do think about racism which is happening in our country . Where Mr.Sastry and other people have gone when same kind of attack is happening every minute in Inida against lower caste people, uneducated, and people from North east . Here people come and bark only if thier son is there in australia .we as a human community pray for the weel being of our fellow Inidans in australia at the same time take some steps to abolish racism in India also . Do spend ur time to think about stopping racism here at the time u mourn for indian attacks in australia.
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Pradeep says: June 08, 2009 at 05:46 PM IST
Good perspective on the subject, but misses the point, just as how media has failed to rightly focus on the issue. The issue is not racism, but violence or the hate crimes. Racism is the next level of debate, but first crime has no place in civil society whether racially motivated or not.Can australia prevent such racially motivated crime, I am not too sure - Just as India cannot prevent foreign tourists getting raped in India and even get blamed for getting cosy with the rapists. Indian Media is playing its part of flashing it , just how foreign media does it when some tourist gets raped in India. Economic and moral development were thought to be the solutions to these issues, but I guess we far from that. Australia may be ahead of us marginally , but we ourselves have a long way to go.
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sagar says: June 08, 2009 at 05:50 PM IST
i agree we indians are very racist and un united
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Sudhir says: June 08, 2009 at 05:59 PM IST
I could nt have put it better myself, u have put word to my feelings
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Ashim says: June 08, 2009 at 06:04 PM IST
One more interesting fact about our racial discrimination. If we look at the item numbers in our Bollywood movies, the appearance of White (Westerners) girls is increasing day by day. The movie makers make money by showing what the consumers will like so they show more and more of partially nude white women. Indian men love to see white women rather than non-white. I have seen multiple songs where they have also moved Indian dancers to the back and kept the white ones in the front.
This explains a lot about us.
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Pat says: June 08, 2009 at 09:25 PM IST
May be we are even more racist than Aussies, but that does not mean Aussies should beat up Indians so that they notch up their reputation as racists. This is not a competition and two wrongs do not make a right.
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David says: June 08, 2009 at 09:26 PM IST
Its is interesting. I agree with most of ur points. All Indians are dark skinned and yet u find some of them discriminating others on the degree of darkness in complexion. European people definitely not so much considerate about skin color. Yes do agree they are rascists, but who isn't. Problem in India is that Indian discriminate among people of their own race. Mates if u do so do expect others not show same attitude towards you. What goes around, comes around.
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Atul says: June 08, 2009 at 09:28 PM IST
Isn't it the same guy who came out a few weeks ago with suggestion that we should hit back (physically) on Aussies. Now he's justifying (bad)apples with (bad)oranges.
How does clowns like this keep their job at Times Of India.
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Maps says: June 08, 2009 at 09:40 PM IST
Jug, you have carved in some good observations as India is plagued with casteism and state favorotism which is exactly not racism but close. Can a Marathi or Kannadiga call Australians a racist ?? NO first they should see how they treat Biharis and Tamilians in their own state.Can politicians call Aussies a racist?? NO first they should see how they are biassed with Education and Job opportunities between different castes.
Having said that i have never seen Indians beating up african students regularly. If Indians want to abuse foreigners they will do it without partiality in colour and with pleasure:-)) see how many white women are abused in Rajasthan and Goa. Indians also dont have reservation in job or promotion because of colour and i have also havent seen a single dark coloured Indian beaten up just becaused of his colour. So problems do exist in Aussie and India but they are bit different
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Frustrated says: June 08, 2009 at 09:45 PM IST
How many times do we have to say it....AUSTRALIA IS NOT A RACSIST COUNTRY. The message doesn’t seem to be getting through to India no matter how many times it is said. I am starting to think that not only is India racist but it is stupid also.
(Note: apologies for this insult to all those local and overseas Indians who don’t hold to the view that all Australians are racists, but my patience at hearing this constant stream of lies and abuse about my home is starting to wear thin)
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Suresh M says: June 08, 2009 at 09:47 PM IST
I think Indians should stay home.
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Niks says: June 08, 2009 at 09:54 PM IST
Also .. would like to point out inter state racism.. he is from east(chinki) from south (tamil) ye gujju hai.. marwadi ;)
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True Indian says: June 08, 2009 at 09:58 PM IST
Whats your point? Are you justifying what Australians did and are doing to innocent Indians? Let me clarify this to you that while casteism is rampant in India amongst uneducated illiterate ppl, even the most sophisticated and elite Aussies are indulging in racist attacks. While Indian govt is quick to pounce upon and punish any person who attacks a foreigner in India, Aussies have so far failed to take any action. I dont think you ever read newspapers like The Australian, who are supporting their deeds even in these circumstances unlike India where even a Qasab gets a chance to be acquitted one day. The biggest curse to India has been the birth of Gandhi who made our all the future generations impotent in the name of tolerance and non-violence.
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Damodar P.Shetty says: June 08, 2009 at 10:03 PM IST
Jug Surya has confused racism with casteism, There is no racism in Inida at all. What we practice is casteism which is practiced among ourselves. I dont say it is good, it is bad but it exists since long long ago. Treating dalits in the name of caste is a crime. What is wrong with people prefering white colour, white skin, fair complex? People like good things in life. This dsoesnt mean it is racism, absolutely not. It is like questioning, why do you preferRose to any other flower. Even about North Indian/south indian cases, it is not raccism, here they are are not accepted because, it will enroach their employment opportunity. So dont compapre Australian racism to our castteiism.
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Jeet says: June 08, 2009 at 10:14 PM IST
Racism in Oz is different. This racism has nothing to with skin color. I have many of my UK friends and they themsleves have experienced racism from thier ausi counter part. So its not the color which is causing the problem. I do agree that in india and other asian country color do matter, but people dont go and hit dark people. Let me remind you that even lord krishna was dark, still people loved him and so any many people are dark but i dont thing we hate them. Its a human desire to have fair color skin, but it doesn't mean that we hate drak people. I totally disagree with you Mr jug.
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shivanand says: June 08, 2009 at 10:47 PM IST
Well, to start with, you Don't have to be a racist to catch a racist. Its not rocket science.One can still sniff racism even if he/she doesnt practice it. Casteism, an age old racism practice is India gave way to new reforms and reservations for the upliftment of the deprived, which in a way was a step taken to ensure that they dont stay deprived anymore. Similarly when the world is the stage here, all we want is to ensure that such "reforms" are made at a higher level to abolish the same. Punish the guilty and intimidate the aspired. Why is India the greatest racist nation? Just because regional conflicts creates hatred within ourselves for someone from a different region? I disagree. All these are majorly politically driven and such petty regional conflicts take place in EVERY country in the world. We have lived all our lives in India, or at the maximum, might have seen the US, UK or Australia. With about a couple of hundred countries in the world and not knowing anything about those individuals, we better not mention India being the MOST racist. Lets not forget, at the end of the day we are a strongly knit single unit where a "roman catholic, gave way to a sikh prime minister sworn in by a muslim president". Racism is omni-present and it can never be abolished. The bottomline is humanity considers racism as an evil practice and we must stand for what is right be it inside our country our outside it.
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Chwang says: June 08, 2009 at 10:48 PM IST
HEY INDIANS PLEASE STOP MAKING EXCUSES ONCE AND FOR ALL. YOU ARE A RACIST BUNCH AND I AM FROM THE NORTH EAST. YOU MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS TO MIND OUR BUSINESS LIKE CRAZY...AND IF YOU GO TO A NEW COUNTRY WITH THE SAME ATTITUDE THEN EXPECT THE WORST..UNLESS YOU CHANGE YOUR MENTALITY..BIG TIME..EDITOR PLEASE NOTE:AM NOT WRITING TO CREATE A MISUNDERSTANDING BUT MERELY STATING A FACT...TY
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rebel says: June 08, 2009 at 10:51 PM IST
My dear Fellow Citizens, it is rather amusing, to read all the post listed above.. I dont want to waste my enery by going on and on again about the differences between race, caste, creed, ethnicity etc...just want to remind you, a very simple phrase"Do unto others as you want them do to you"
I am not justifying what is happenig in Australia,it is indeed very disturbing to hear about the Indian students who are suffering there.
But,it is time we move out of our hypocritic and denial world. Look at how we treat our own fellow bretherens from the North East, Bihar, south India, the dalits etc.For these people every single day starts and ends with discrimination.Every single step of theirs is followed by strange glares and bombartment with derogatory comments such as:- "chinky","biharis","Mallus" etc. Some one had written in his post that in India we use "name calling based on region,caste, creed, ethnicity"etc, humurously!Hence I want to ask my fellow citizens, do you suppose humour at the expense of others is "fun"?? Derogating your fellow brethern is"fun"?
Out of your busy schedule, take a minute and put yourselves in the shoes of the one that you are "calling names at".. how would you feel??
It is time we wake up form our sense of false superiority, and Hypocracy and change our ways for the better. For remember it is, when we learn to respect and accept the diversity within ourselves and learn the aspect of cultural tolerance..only than we can expect to get the same response from others. It is high time, we bring about a change within ourselves , to bring about a change on a larger scale.
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**""WE INDIANS ARE SO ST**ID" ** says: June 08, 2009 at 10:51 PM IST
DEAR INDIANS
**THIS IS THE VERY REASON THE BRITS MANAGED TO RULE INDIA FOR SO LONG.**
AS THEY WERE KEEPING US BUSY IN THOUGHTS SUCH AS THE ONE WE HAVE INDULGED IN "WE ARE MORE RACIST THAN OZ".
THEY WERE BUSY KILLING AND BASHING US UP,AND SLAVING US FOR CENTURIES.
INDIANS LETS NOT BE SLAVES AGAIN!!!
JAI BHARAT MATHA KI!!!
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Nirmal says: June 08, 2009 at 10:53 PM IST
Very well said.... We Indians are the biggest racists in the whole world...we find every single opportunity to discriminate a fellow Indian - Caste, Language, Region, Religion...etc... The moment we get the taste of our medicine...Our Indian media gets all hyper and cry out loud...We are the biggest hypocrites in the whole...hope we change our ways.... and treat people as people...
At the same time... I feel bad for wts happening in Aus... Hope the Aus govt does something to stop it...
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Ajith says: June 08, 2009 at 10:54 PM IST
I was in Melbourne last February and used public transport extensively. I noticed that in the suburbs, 90% people you see on the roads after 8 PM are "Indian looking" people. So I feel that this is a Law and Order issue and not a "racial" issue.. However, there may be racial references in many cases, but the attacks itself are opportunistic in nature. This is clearly a "law and order" problem for the Victoria Police to address; and not a "racial issue" as hyped by our entertaining news media.
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Observer says: June 08, 2009 at 10:57 PM IST
Ha, you just hit the "Jugular Vein" when it comes to this issue. The dirty underbelly of the "unified" India, with its color, caste, religious and regional polarizations. When the Tamils were being massacred (20,000 civilians in the last 19 days of the Sri Lankan conflict), it caused not a blip at the central government level, except for some meaningless mouthing of platitudes, while providing diplomatic cover to the Lankans to go ahead with their activities. I wonder if the situation would have been different, if Sardarjis were being massacred in such large numbers in/by a neighbouring country or Gujaratis or Biharis etc., as opposed to Tamils going through with the terrible experience. Remember, we are not talking about surgical strikes but about the armed forces of the country, using heavy weaponry like Heavy machine guns, Artillery, cluster bombs, fighter planes, tanks etc., directly into Civilian areas. Saddam Hussein did not do a fraction of such activities, to be villified and pilloried in the United Nations.
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Jaspreet says: June 08, 2009 at 10:59 PM IST
Dear Author. I do not think that you have ever been out of India. Come out of India and face it.
I have seen some cooments from some guys that says that Racism in india is more than australia. May be they have some personal experience because of their colour tone or caste. Come here guys, White guys dont even like to sit beside you if you are a Coloured man.
To Author : You have hurted the spirit of all Indians who were accumulating against Racism in Australia. Shame on you
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Uttam says: June 08, 2009 at 11:05 PM IST
I am not sure, if Mr. Jug understands the meaning of racism.. by pointing out your "racism" in India, are you trying to prove that Indians students deserve to face racism in Australia ?
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Ankit says: June 08, 2009 at 11:17 PM IST
Talking about Racism in India is nothing new,but the Points which you have mentioned don't actually relate.Someones Liking based on colour can't be called a racism.May be one likes a dark coloured person but when it comes to justice or prefrence for job or any such activity color hardly matters. May be People like fair color that is the reason we see most of the media people of fair color and adds on that context,but that does not mean that there is any haterd for dark color peoples.
Talking about other points is fine But still i don't agree that the Racism here can be compared with that in Oz.
You Don't find any other Country with so many Castes and a mix of colors.But its only Possible in India.Every where in this World where One can divide People in one way or other may be based on caste,locality or anything else there will be a slight discrimination.
But i Do Agree that indians need to Cooperate and reduce whatever racism is there.
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deepak sharma says: June 08, 2009 at 11:17 PM IST
Though I agree with you that WE our selves are the biggest racist people where ppl in south India do not like north Indian and vice e versa. But as far the main issues where Indian students in Australia are attached are concerned I see these as a weak over strong. Indians are probably one of the most physically weak in the world. Diet play a big role in that most of the guys in our country do not eat non veg due to various reason(I do not want to get in to that). The attacks on Indian student reflects only one thing the perception the world has about us that we will not rebel, we will not react and are most peaceful people in the world. Having said that peace also come once you are strong enough to defend your self. It’s not about Australia there are many places in the world where Indians are attacked Germany , uk, U.S and many more. Just because Media is high lighting this series of incident do not mean Indians are not attacked any where else.
Though as I said we need to rectify the racism inside the country but if we want our people to be safe outside then there is no way accept that we make ourselves strong. It’s like people from Pakistan attacked Mumbai and killed so many people and we are making statements from here and anticipating Pak will take some action.
Summary is- We can name these incident the way we want, call it racism or any thing else but root cause of the issue is the fight between strong vs weak. This is happening from the time of civilization. Unfortunate we Indians lost most of wars initially with Mughals and then with British. We have to learn from it and defend ourselves better.
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Vamsi says: June 08, 2009 at 11:24 PM IST
History says that the casts have formed in India based on the line of business people are involved..for example..businessmen-maarwadis, cattlemen-yadavas, hairdressers-nayi-brahmans, worshippers-brahmins. I believe casts are different from races. The differences in India exists only because a group of people does not like the habits and customs of others. I don't think there is a racist element exists in the cast. Coming to the color, there is no racism in India based on color. People of all colors are doing well in India in higher positions.
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Nav says: June 08, 2009 at 11:26 PM IST
Jug is right.. there is so much racism in India. Have you tried going to a different state for work? remember what happened in Mumbai against so called north indians, what happens when a tamil goes to bangalore. Also why every south indian is called "madrasi". HELLO.. WAKEUP.. south india has 4 states and 1 union territory
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Shaan says: June 08, 2009 at 11:40 PM IST
Lets examine some facts of Indian culture.
Kama or Manmatha, the king of love is black in color according to ancient Indian literature.
Krishna, Rama and Vishnu various forms of one Hindu God are all black in color according to literature. And Krishna is known for his many lovers.
There is nothing to suggest any Indian favoritism towards fair color before the British rule. The British rule crushed the self confidence of many Indians and they wanted to project themselves as being much closer to the Europeans. So they readily bought the Aryan invasion theory which was really a tool for the British to divide this country. Even today many north Indians say that they are Aryans and Tamil political parties call themselves as dravidian. The word 'dravidian' itself is not present in the Tamil language and it is a sanskrit loan word. All of this is because of the slave mentality of Indians till recent times.
But now the situation has really changed. Even though you still see ads for fairness creams (which are commercially motivated) you must consider the popularity of Bipasha Basu, Deepika Padukone, Shahrukkhan and others before saying that Indians are racist. We don't beat up others because they are of a particular skin color. There is an amount of racism in any society but there is a limit. And importantly, in Australia they beat up Indians simply because they are Indians and not because they are non-white.
Please don't try to obfuscate the real issue at hand and be an apologists for criminals. These students who went to pursue education with the hard earned money of their poor parents are getting stabbed everyday but we still see Indians not voicing their opposition to these horrible acts with one voice. This is exactly the nature of the Indian slave mentality. A legacy of the colonial past.
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Prasoon says: June 08, 2009 at 11:48 PM IST
Nice article...makes us laugh and feel sad at the same time. Very true, even with people living abroad we do find such traits deep within them.
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Bharat Razdan says: June 09, 2009 at 12:01 AM IST
Philosophy and analysis on something can be endless but you must admit that we don't beat up or kill people because they are black. While calling some names sarcastically is fine as long as the person is not brutally stabbed and killed.
Indians have something called "Slave Mentality"; a syndrome that they have been suffering from ever since the Mahmud of Ghazni stepped on Indian soils. In simple terms, I mean to say that Indians are excellent at cursing, fighting, abusing their own kind even in a debate rather than tackling the external problem.... just as seen here. I am even surprised that the author is an Indian of this blog. Pathetic show of unity there with all the fancy philospohy brother... keep up this work and soon India would be as it was 5 centuries back--into tiny states.
I am an Indian as well; but unlike the remaining 99.99% I don't carry Slave Mentality Syndrome.... something that all other Indians do and who need to review their own greatness before degrading themselves in front of external forces.
Jai Hind.
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ARUNAVA BISWAS says: June 09, 2009 at 12:02 AM IST
200% correct.Racisim is too much a small word for us Indians who are perpetrators of discrimations in all its' forms in the name of caste,creed,relisgion,provincism,education,jobs,hospitals,food quality,human values etc. We do not deserve equal treatment especially when we are treated like refugees in our own country.We pretend to be innocent..we love to be 'Gandhari' with black cloths on eyes..
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rakesh reddy says: June 09, 2009 at 12:05 AM IST
Indians are the most racist people on earth.
This is a fact that we all know about and we need no lecturing about.
But that is not the moot point.
The point is how are we treating our guests ...especially white tourists or foriegn students in india....
The answer is we treat them like Gods.
Yes racism exists every where.....but does that mean that the shiv sena attack australians travelling in India and simply hide behind this fact?
That is what the australians do and are trying to do now.
If an australian were to be attacked here ...the whole of western media and the indian media ...with our politicians and our police would have rolled over in protest.
USA AND EUROPE WOULD HAVE put INDIA as a danger zone and warned tourists from entering our country.
In australia when the students were atttacked their media did not even report those attacks...till the indians protested on the streets of australia.
Is that not double standards?.
If that is not weighing the white tourist a little more than other humans what is?
When the indian students go to the police the police tells them that they cannot go about "protecting everyone" and that the indians should learn to take care of themselves.
Are we treating our white guests similarly?.
The premise of this author is that since we use "fairness cream" we Indians are racist.
What about australians and whites in general using tanning creams?.
Does that make all the whites who use tanning creams racist?.
Is that not illogical.
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siddharth says: June 09, 2009 at 12:12 AM IST
Well Mr Jug,what you refer to as racism is stereotyping more on regional lines. I think it is prevalent in many places all over the world, see UK, where the english, scots and the irish have the same kind expressions and banter about these communities. I believe that whats going on in australia is far more serious, especially when i have a brother there who instead of concentrate on studies has to live in the fear of life and death day in and day out. A tendency that some of you armchair critics have is to criticize india for everything that happens. At this point in this what is required is that we support our students and try and ensure their safety rather harping about the north-south east-west divide
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Satya Dayanand says: June 09, 2009 at 12:12 AM IST
So what...do our frailties justify others taking our lives? warped and politically correct articles to stay in the news?
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karthik says: June 09, 2009 at 12:13 AM IST
Indians are the worst racist of all in the entire world. Caste is the best example for it. Brahmins are considered to be 'Aryans' or originated from a place other than India. In Tamil Nadu, such Brahmins are treated worst than anywhere Indians are treated in the world. The present CM's son (and obviously the next CM), MK Stalin, used to pat the back of Brahmin ladies (in Sri Rangam town) during Hindi opposition times. Is that not racism or the ugliest word you can ever have? There was a time when dravidian parties (like DMK or Dravidar Kalagam) used to call Brahmins are dogs and snakes in public meetings. Even now, since Brahmins represent only 3% of the population, they are treated worse than Dalits (who represent 27% of population considering their vote bank). Castes with highest population - irrespective of their social status - are considered 'suppressed and oppressed' since they decide the next govt. Is this not racism?
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Norman says: June 09, 2009 at 12:16 AM IST
We should protest the bashings of our People/students in Australia.
However we should also look at our own backyard, as we also bash up our weak and meek brothers and sisters, even rape Religious Women, who cannot hit back.
We live in a self denial world.
One big question: Why do students want to go to these places, when they know very well that they are not accepted/welcome? If they feel the heat, they should come back. Simple, let the Aussie Govt. feel the pinch.
You see we cannot have our cake and eat it.
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S. Anand says: June 09, 2009 at 12:19 AM IST
Trying to look fair because we have a tanned skin and referring to a person with a term based on his place of origin is a mentality that Indians are living with. And more importantly they are comfortable being so. In the due course of such things, there is no intention to discriminate and harm other individuals if they are not from the same region. The author has made an effort to fit in those issues that India faces within itself to a rather sensitive issue of racism. Although our problems includes motivated discrimination, it is vaguely related to the topic of Racism, but is not racism. As mentioned earlier by one Mr/Ms "True Indian", it is the poor and the illiterate who find solace in discriminating them based on any possible sensitive issue, if it is not the castesim that will help them do so, they turn to regionalism. Although we dont have anything against the under-privileged, such things would still take time to overcome in this modern day India. A country where the guilty is penalised and the victim is presented with justice in every possible case of "racially motivated crime" as compared to Australia where the victims and their voices were being ignored by the whole nation until now, why is India being termed more racist?
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Raj says: June 09, 2009 at 12:22 AM IST
As I understand, Jug is not justifying the attacks on Indians. He is pointing to the fact that we are Racist too. If you are dark skinned gilr you wil understand how difficult it is to get married.
Irrespective of our own racial prejeduice we should however condemn the attacks against Indians in Australia. That said, we also need to address problems within the Indian society. The two are independent events.
Even after so many years of independence, the people from certain caste and tribe are trated life animals. And some of our readers say we only exchange friendly racial slur and not physical slur. That is not true. Physical attacks (including rape) aganist Dalit people and certain tribal groups is not uncommon. Worst is the complacancy of the police in those cases. The media does not report it widely because it is not as sensatona as Aishwarya Rai getting married. So let us increase our voice for both: a) attack against Indians in australia and b)Equaltiy and fair treatment for every one in India
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Sonu says: June 09, 2009 at 12:22 AM IST
hi jug ,
what you are writing is jug of rubbish , it is meant to be kept in the dustbin, not a paper like TOI.
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Prakash Kumar says: June 09, 2009 at 12:31 AM IST
India is truly a racist country. There is no doubt about it. We must look in mirror and try to correct that. But at this hour , please support our people in Australia who need our voice with them.
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janak says: June 09, 2009 at 12:33 AM IST
I think no tonly Indian but people around the world are racist in some sense or other. What people like Jug forget when whti type of things happen we never unite and fight as one INDIA. And this is the advantage taken . Our so called journalist specially writing in English news paper think they are non-racist , non secular nd all the goodies in teh world. It is time for all Indian to unite and be ONE INDIA when it comes to fight with the world outside. I think outsied world take Indians vey lightly because we do not speak in one voice. It is time to fight in one voice. If you see even the Americans and so called affluent countries are racist. They act in such a diplomatically and show that they are not. Ask any other than white skinned person how they feel in country outside theirs. It is esy to write sitting in comfortable room.
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Ravi says: June 09, 2009 at 12:36 AM IST
Equating Caste with Racism is being plain Naive and dowright stupid. Caste is not based on Race Its started of being based on proffession and then their genealogy etc. But all so called self proffessed intelignet western leaning writers of India invariably have to throw some dirt on anything of Indian Origin and then they feel they have served the cause of Secularism pluralism and made their point How Lame.
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Sankar Raman says: June 09, 2009 at 12:41 AM IST
Well it should not be confused between preferance and racist. I may like to marry a white complexioned woman that does not make me a racist it is just a matter of preferance. if it is to be equated then every monogamist is a racist because his/her souce is either black or white.
Discriminating or insulting or hurting folks based on anything (not just race) is wrong. But not everyday is the black folks killed in New delhi campuses so It is easy to make a mountain out of a mole hill and compare them and call them equals but it takes some intelligence to see them for what they are.
If e are bigger racists than ozzies, then to me it only means that you are giving a break for those who killed students of a particular ethnic origin and what does that make you? a racist! by your own definition of things. So if you think we are worse than those xeniphobic racist whack jobs would you dare to go and live in Austrlia than in India - much less make such an absurd comment against them?!
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Sudhir R says: June 09, 2009 at 12:43 AM IST
Even though I dont live in Australia, but i can imagine the horrors Indian students must be going through. Jug's article is true but not relevant to situation at hand. Throwing mild racial slurs at someone is different that attacking innocent student with sharp weapons.
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Hemant says: June 09, 2009 at 12:51 AM IST
Jug(headed) article, these are not words of wisdom and are not the requirement of time, Indian Govt. has been very docile and soft from history known, best example is the Mumbai carnage by ISI & Pak terrorists. It took a month for Oz govt. to play a diplomatic trick and appoint Mr. Vargheese and try to diffuse the situation. Caste system and other nonsense is not a subject matter at the moment.
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Norman A. Thomas. says: June 09, 2009 at 12:52 AM IST
You have racist in your own set up.
That is why your moderator deletes my simple comment.
I guess it is the guy who received his education free of charge, at the expense of the community.
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Atul says: June 09, 2009 at 12:52 AM IST
Well, someone finally wrote about something that is deemed very normal in India, although i bet these fairness cream companies are not hiring fair people only or you don't beat up a person just because he is dark skinned..
What is happening in Australia is way different I wouldn't say it is racism but the Australians in general think that the Indians are taking over their country and probably their jobs and they feel threatened....
I mean I'm not pleading their case or saying what they are doing is right,in my opinion it is absolutely shameful and barbaric but in such bad economic times people are scared and make some stupid decisions...
My condolences go out to the family's who have lost someone important and my advice to the people who are facing similar problems in other parts of the world is come back to your homeland where you were born because you owe your life to your country.....
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rajesh says: June 09, 2009 at 12:58 AM IST
Jug, I agree with you a 100%. I am a South Indian living in California, and when I look back on how deeply racial/caste/colour prejudice is ingrained in our Indian culture, there can be no doubt that we Indians are as racist as any backward society on earth. It is sad to see educated and intelligent Indian parents desperately hunting for fair-skinned brides/grooms for their child, so as to ensure their grandchildren will not be dark skinned and cause them to lose prestige in the narrow-minded society they inhabit.
The racial attacks on the Indian students are reprehensible and requires a slumbering, head-in-the-sand Aussie society to wake up and confront its inner demons.
But I submit that its time for Indian society to confront and vanquish its racial prejudice as well.
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atul says: June 09, 2009 at 12:58 AM IST
And to the people who say we are hypocrites and we are the worst country, learn to respect your country and educate yourself...
You cannot have a perfect life or a perfect country do something about it instead of wining about it..
Peace out fellow Indians...
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un.... says: June 09, 2009 at 01:00 AM IST
I think, He is wright in many of his terms...
We have to see first our own Dish for bugs
rather pointing to others...
I am in Germany and i see this every time...
Indian people helping only the people from their state and they make groups...
When i meet indians in train or something the first question will be... are u indian...?
and then comes the best one..
which state you are from??
then if it doesn't match with his one then its
the end...
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S G says: June 09, 2009 at 01:02 AM IST
What a pitiful article on a serious issue as recism. The author's discussion on anecdotal experiences of prejudices surrounding fairness, origin, language is a six year olds perspective of racism. While the proven existence of this trivia does cause discriminatory and traumatic experiences at times; it is never a core social phenomenon that is a central belief. In India, caste is the closest to racism. The beleif in caste is core, central and lead to wars, bloodshed and widespread discrimination and abuse that is not anecdotal. Our politics revolve around caste.
Dont get me wrong. The discriminatory practices are not fair and indeed should be addressed. But it is not a core war like racism and casteism. Calling someone a 'Gujju' is not racism. It is banter and yes may be done well without. But you cant complain that no having a few fungus infected bread slices is the same thing as the hunger striken famine. Thats utterly ridiculous.
Indians are NOT racist. Period. They may have surfacial perferences, but always supercede with value. THAT is why we have leaders from backward communities, THAT is why we have women working in all sector. IT is not a perfect world and we have a lot of problems to face ...but we are not racist.
Mr. Author...please find some self esteem.
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Dinesh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:04 AM IST
I dont agree completely. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I think at least I have not heard that we indians stabbed or harmed 10 african students in spate of a month here in india. I agree that we are racists but I disagree that we are more racists than australians or that we deserve whats going on in australia. Calling people names is not racism, it could be just innocent fun. If it was racism all the time then my god i am a racist even to myself as i often refer to myself and my friends here in maharashtra as ghatis.
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Sid says: June 09, 2009 at 01:13 AM IST
When all this is over in Australia Shall we as Indians learn anything from it at all ? Shall we take a pledge not to discriminate Marathis from Biharis ? If the incidents in Australia is really racism(I doubt it is) Can I ask Indians travelling abroad to be a little more civic in their senses. Indians abroad have a weird tendency to become more Indian in foreign lands. They do not respect the local food,culture and traditions.Fact is they do not even take interest in them and pass the judgement that they are worthless compared to the Indian context.
Ther congregate amongst themselves on weekends ,watch Hindi movies and programs (as if there is nothing else in the world) and talk about the greatness of their country ridiculing local customs and traditions.Their friend are only Indians,they only go to Indian restaurants,and Indian run Pubs and discos and reaconly timesof India.They keep themselves so preoccupied with themselves that they hardly have a talking point when it comes to interacting with the locals because they have no idea whatz happening around them.All they ace about is the money and the green card.
I have seen people who immigrated 20 years ago and still behave the same.The Chinese,Greeks etc on the other hand have integrated beautifully wherever they have immigrated.You have to see to believe it.People commenting here are mostly Indians from India rest of them are the ones living abroad whom I just described above. I think Mr.Jug has done a great job in this article.
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Dinesh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:14 AM IST
Unfortunately most of what you said is true. But thats still not an excuse for students being killed in Australia in the name or racism.
Racism is in human nature and CANNOT be eliminated, its here to stay with the human race in some form or other. All we can hope is that loss of life, due to this stupidity, stays at minimum.
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M. Bhaskar Rao says: June 09, 2009 at 01:14 AM IST
It is surprising that the author of this article is no aware of the facts. The caste system in India was a thing of the past. It was a social evil and we have overcome it.
Indians are being discriminated everywhere. Even at work, a European or an American doing a similar job gets a fatter check and additional perks. I work in a Greek company and others ranked below me get a higher pay check only because they are Greeks. I mustered the courage and wrote to the MD of the company. 9 months have gone by but there is just no signs of these things coming to an end. One thing I do agree is the fact that Indians do look down upon themselves. Let us not do it. Stand united even in the face of the worst adversity. Jai Hind and Jai Universal brotherhood
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ashok gupta says: June 09, 2009 at 01:15 AM IST
Well said. Having lived in Canada and US, I'd say Indians are equally prejudiced.
How many successful film actors and actresses are 'dark' skin?
Why is King Khan peddling cream to ligten one's skin color on TV?
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pankaj wala says: June 09, 2009 at 01:16 AM IST
Jaggu dada shut up for the sake of helpless Indian students in Australia.
Indian students in Australia need undivided support. Stop lecturing India on racism - more on this later.
Its been a long since you been a student.
These students have gone to Australia to become somebody someday.
What is at stake is their youth, aspirations, their faith that they were living in an equal-opportunity (austalia) soceity, the money they or their parents spent or are spending for their education.
Imagine bearing the brunt police in foreign land. These students have guts to rally about this issue in foreign land.
They are young, probably clueless and certainly helpless (thanks to people like you) when whole australian government machinery is trying stiffle their concerns.
Whenever there is international incident like this, people like you try to undermine/hurt the unity of Indians.
About the content of your article --
What is the point of this article anyway? To make Indians feel like a buch of loosers?
Do you have any sense of responsibility towards country and journalism?
Did you forget that some of the Indian students are fighting for their life in foreign land?
What is wrong in calling Punjabi a Panju, a Bangali a Bong or whatever. This is just a slang evolved with time. Gujaratis themselves called them gujjus and Malyali's themselves called them mallus.
In diverse society like us, what is wrong with calling each ethnic group differently. Otherwise how would you differentiate for the sake of communication - cultures, customs and traditions.
If I invite a Gujju family to my home for dinner and cook gujju 'kadhi' for them will it look racist?
Indian society is evolving for better. Slowly, but happening. We can't expect 1billion people to change overnight. If you can't see that, may be you should step away from your laptop and see the real India by stepping outside.
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Rahul says: June 09, 2009 at 01:22 AM IST
Jagu,
Trust me..if a Aussi racist thug finds you alone in a ally..he will beat the elitist smugness out of you in a hurry..your supposed non-racism will not save you white, brown or whatever skin you have.
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Rohit V says: June 09, 2009 at 01:27 AM IST
good article and well executed, but personally i guess that the author doesn't realise that in this heat of moment this wasn't the right time for him to come out with such realism. i live in melbourne and atleast i can see that now my fellow countryfolks over here are united and integrated. These kind of article even though depicts the true scenario to a large extent shouldn't be brought in at this point of time, specially when we need support from our people. I would have appreciated this article a lot if this would have been published at some other period of time but not now.
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Vish says: June 09, 2009 at 01:28 AM IST
Jeet,
It's all about color in India.
There was an incident few years back, where Africans were denied entry to a pub in Coloba, Mumbai, because of their color.
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pawan says: June 09, 2009 at 01:31 AM IST
hey jug...sitting is ac room and passing comment is easy. just go out there and you will know whats real picture. well i m a great fan of Gandhi but if some one is giving me slap i would be the last person on earth to take the next one i would rather punch him two on his face. i guess u i need to remind u his famous words " paap karna bura hai .. lekin paap sahna usse bhi bura hai"..
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Pawan Kumar Singh says: June 09, 2009 at 01:37 AM IST
I totally agree with Jug, we have seen this last year in Maharashtra, the happened in Assam where Biharis were beaten up and sent out of state. Tamils always hate guys from other state and then they say they are proud of being a tamilian. What kind of pride is it in which you discriminate between human beings. Mr Damodar P.Shetty why are you taking dictionary meaning of word castesim and racesim, they are just word which are used in different context but with same end result. Both of them lead to hatred among fellow human being, so i think Jug is not at all wrong in saying whatever he said. One more thing you said castesim has been practiced in India science ages but isn't it true what is being practiced from past are not always good. So, I really feel very sad that we indians are more racist than anyone else in world.
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Rameez says: June 09, 2009 at 01:37 AM IST
dear jug,
I hvnt seen such a poor argument b4, i can only laugh. I am a student in US and basically in the same shoes as these indian students in Australia. But i havnt faced ne sort of racism and no wonder indians flock to USA. I alwaz somehow knew that australians are racist and they cannot stand dark skinned people.
I agree with JEET.
Australians have the theory which you are talking about, they are sons of criminals and they are proving it themselves.
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Mr James Bond says: June 09, 2009 at 01:40 AM IST
Living in US I can tell you Indians do not have a good image here despite of being educated. Indians are disliked because all they think about money, money, and more money. They go to different countries and pretend and act they are living in India. They do not try to learn anything good from different culture. Indians dress inappropriately, they smell bad, and are inconsiderate to others. I have witnessed Indians pushing a handicapped person from the line so they can get ahead of them. I was tempted to tell them to leave America and go back to India. Indians (i am sorry but especially south Indians) dress inappropriately even Pakistanies are dressed very smartly and very westernised in America. They smell bad and never heard of deodrants despite of cooking garlic food at their food. I used to have a class right after Masters class in India and man that class smell like spice class. It almost seems like they have not taken shower in months. It is embarrasing for rest of us Indians who take steps to assimilate themselves in a new culure. I seriouly think western countries should not give visa to Indians who acts as if they are living in India. Irony is Chinese/Nepalies/other Asian countries/middles easters do not act that way and are very much respected in America. But Indians, they are whole another species. Indians need to grow up or just need to stay in their villages.
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Roohi Kanpuria says: June 09, 2009 at 01:43 AM IST
Dear Sir,
Yes we do have problems in india a chamaar boy can not marry the thakur girl.Often low caste girls are paraded naked in villages for having affairs.thakur community,baniya community,pandit community,brahmin community,chamar community,jatav community,sikh community,christian community,muslim community and within these group there are hundreds of castes and gotra.We basically stink.our police most of the time harass rickshaw pullars and roadside labours and lick rich people.govt. departments are sooo corrupt that without paying bribe u cannot do anything.this has created a big disparity in money distribution.Tell me you indians how man of you can have a food on same table with rickshaw pullar.no one.I think there should be minimum wage criteria to destroy disparity.I am myself a victim of racism,I could not marry a guy coz he was christian.I think when ever indians get chance they try to exploit their position.Its enough we should stop that.Even pakistan is better than india atleast nobody burn churches and destroy temples and masjids or kill sikhs.
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dipanka says: June 09, 2009 at 01:59 AM IST
Completely agree with Jug Suraya. We do need to eliminate discrimination in India as well. Pointing out racism in India does not diminish the problem in Australia. Instead, I think the timing is perfect to discuss discrimination in our own society, which is way more pervasive. Forget the semantics, as a society we have more discrimination than anywhere else in the world: dark skinned versus light skinned, master versus servant, "high" (!) caste versus "low"(!) caste, gender bias, female foeticide and infanticide, the works.
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B. Shah says: June 09, 2009 at 02:05 AM IST
This is so true ....
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jackie says: June 09, 2009 at 02:06 AM IST
hi fellow indians,
first clean ur own house.. fight the caste system
then fight against racism..
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Jay says: June 09, 2009 at 02:08 AM IST
All this is called Discrimination. Unfortunately, us Indian are very abd at it. As soon as you board a plane to India, you notice this. Fair skin(white) passengers are given that service with smile. You come out of the plane and your experience starts straight away. Anyway, being discriminated in other contries does not hurt as much as it hurts being discriminated by your own people and that again in your own country.
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overseas says: June 09, 2009 at 02:10 AM IST
All I would say is whatever shortcomings we have in India it does not justify the violence against Indians in Australia. The violence should stop. Period. This is the time to stand up united and not bring up our weaknesses. They will be time and opportunity for this issue in India. Not at this moment when we have to stand together for sufferings of Indians in Australia. Cheers.
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An Indian says: June 09, 2009 at 02:14 AM IST
So by this logic...
Rape happens in India
Therefore any foreigner is free to rape an Indian????
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Ajit B.Lal says: June 09, 2009 at 02:17 AM IST
Hi there,
Firstly, I,d like to say Hello!,to all my friends in New Delhi, Manish,anshul,prithvi,maitri,palak,poonam,Ravi,rohan and Samraat,Guys I am rocking here in New Zealand.and pumping iron to nutralise any racist attack in here.Please do not entertain any aussie as even people hate them in new zealand.these vulnerable indian toads come here to study to make their career,I hav seen these aussies openly attack anybody who is brown,black and asian.
The best way is to ignore them in IPL.People here think that IPL is cash lady, its better to pay indians rather than foreigners.I have noticed many times those soft indian Toads are commented.Once some guys shouted at me and I chased them, they ran away cowardly.Next time they come close.........
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Daniel says: June 09, 2009 at 02:20 AM IST
Well. I agree, Though we are Educated we still follow racism with casteism, Though we literally dont Beat up People But we do know how to degrade any Community, Compartmentlize Sections of people, We cant deny the fact that Racism is prevalent all over the World. So Be it India, UK, US, Australia, Racism still exists and will be so. Why dont the Rich send their Children to local Schools, Or Even proper Private schools, Its all about how much Money and status we have in this Soceity, I hope people get to know that colour is Only Skin deep, The Bible says Man look at the Outward appearance But "GOD" looks in at the Heart. In conclusion we first have to change the way we think and then we would see the changes around, Its not going to take Debates, Punishments, Laws to change Racism, We our selves have to change.
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Atul says: June 09, 2009 at 02:22 AM IST
U R very Indian. Start blaming ur own countrymen than finding a solution to Oz problem. I agree India do have some racist element but we dont bash people because of their caste color or religion. India is a great country and perfect example of secularism. Sikh is PM, Muslim was President in a country where 80 % population is Hindu. 6 of our 11 playing eleven cricket players are non hindus. We R SEcular and should be proud of it. Jai Hind..
Atul ( Melbourne).
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dimpa says: June 09, 2009 at 02:26 AM IST
shame on all the austrlains writing in this paper under disguised names.You think allegations of racism and violence against innocent indians will disappear by resorting to such prpagadist tactics ? Not even a million jugsurya can do that.
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abhijeet says: June 09, 2009 at 02:28 AM IST
we may be racists at some level implicitly but we never ever go around stabbing people , what certain australian people are showing is insecurity , ingnorance and xenophobia.
abhi
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NAveen says: June 09, 2009 at 02:36 AM IST
Completely Agree with you, When Shilpa Shetty was racially abused in Big Brother people stood by her side and made her win, but many people won't know same Shilpa shetty might be abusing(not by physical voilence, but thru her actions) fellow indian on basis of Color, Caste and Social Status.
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Gaurav says: June 09, 2009 at 02:44 AM IST
I wonder sometimes why we Indian always criticize ourself of being more racist when such things are happening out there. I can't say we are clean. However, instead of being critice ourself at this point of time, it would be better if we could help out someway to those victims in Aus. Such blogs would only encourage those whites to do such pity things. I don't think we Indians go out and bash brutally any white for no reason. We make fun of our own people but never touch them. Inspite of multi-cultured environment, the ratio of happening this kinda things is very low in India. SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SENSELESS. Instead of writing these blogs.. Please write something which help students who have gone out there. Wanna criticize, then criticize their govt and police who is not helping them. Whatever India is.. Its still much better than any country in the WORLD.
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nitin walia says: June 09, 2009 at 02:48 AM IST
Mr. Suraiya,
Irrespective of what you wrote is correct or not …I didn’t at all understand the relevance of your article “We're even more racist than Aussies” in the ongoing context of attacks on Indians students in Australia.
From what I understand is, ARE you trying to justify the attacks on Indian students. Are you saying to fellow Indians that we can’t complain about racism in Australia (where we are victims) because we ourselves are racist people????
I don’t think it’s your fault, but your whole generation is infused with self-pity, lack of confidence and being satisfied with bronze medals (I apologize for being blunt). People of your generation come from a poor and backward India with embedded slavery in their mindset, in contrast my generation (I am 30 yrs old) comes from a nation with nuclear technology, with one of the fastest growing economy in the world and 200 television channels. We don’t want to be part of Non-aligned Movement; a spiritually rich but materialistically poor country ….My generation is demanding, aggressive and confident and doesn’t consider travelling to US, UK or Australia as luxury. So please leave your ‘always blaming yourself’ attitude and start learning behaving like an “arrogant Indian” …yes that what we want to be!
Can you imagine what would have happened if a French, British or an American would have been attacked in some other country? I can guarantee that Obama would have personally called Australian prime minister and made a huge deal out of it.
Mr. Suraiya …why can’t we Indians be demanding and ask for what is rightfully ours. We are sending billions of dollars to Australia through tuition fees …I would say we should EXPECT a special treatment from that country not being attacked like dogs.
Generally, I would have ignored such blog/article but when I say you’re Name as a writer, I was totally taken back and was forced to write such a long and harsh worded response
Best
Nitin
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Not2bnamed says: June 09, 2009 at 02:53 AM IST
You are sick! Your article is similar to the British act which divided our country - Same on authors like you - Experience the reality and write the facts - I can smell from your article that you are trying to grab the attention rather than showing the true picture. You talk of India! what happen to ab-originals in Australia? Red - Indians in America!!!!! Jews in Germany!!!!!
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Zohra says: June 09, 2009 at 02:54 AM IST
I agree with the basic assertion that as South Asians we have a fierce tendency to generalize and keep holding to one trait as the key to an entire personality. It isn't surprising thus that we associate fair skin with beauty, power, wealth, intelligence and progress. We also associate blacks with hunger, strife, and poverty. We consider everyone with oriental looks to be Chinese probably because they are closest to us? But we're not the only ignorant class here. Americans mean "Chinese" (actually all chinkies) when they say Asians!
My point however is that every population will continue to believe in cliches unless proven otherwise. Americans have had a violent history that has led them to a time now when they are mostly tolerant. A majority of white states in central America however continue to be prejudiced and that is primarily because of their ignorance.
India never has experienced a time when Indians have lived with whites and blacks in comparable numbers where whites have not been the rulers. Australia is undergoing that time now when they are forced to live with these people who are different and yet subservient but trying to be equals. The insecurities are bringing about the violence.
Globalization and the spread and distribution of races around the world are bound to make locals uncomfortable especially when a race believed to be inferior for generations comes and demands a place as equals. These cycles are normal and so are Indians. I don't believe that as Indians we have any more of a tendency to be racist than any other. It is unfair to say based on local reactions to fair and dark and the reactions to a sprinkling of white or black tourists that we are actually racist. Until Indians all get a fair chance to be exposed to the kind of racial diversity existing in US, UK or Australia I would hold judgment on whether Indians are actually racist. Lets just say Indians easily believe in cliches and that is definitely not the same as being racist!
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Tamil says: June 09, 2009 at 03:00 AM IST
Racial abuses are BAD. Indians are Racists. Both are true.
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shri says: June 09, 2009 at 03:06 AM IST
A cheap propaganda by racist Australians. It is so obvious from comments. a dozen faceless idiots sitting in some stinky basements are writing thee letters.
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shen d says: June 09, 2009 at 03:08 AM IST
Couldn't Agree More. Very well articulated reality
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Deepak Tyagi says: June 09, 2009 at 03:22 AM IST
Hi i don't completely agree with Jug , I think the root cause is that Indians lack self respect. We don't respect ourselves so people anywhere in the world do the same. If you observe carefully then you will see how people in india behave as soon as they see white skin. I have noticed that we consider then above us , this could be a due to the fact that we were a British colony for so long. We still think they are superior to us. Second thing is we are not UNITED. If one of us get beaten , we think thank god it was not us. This is main reason we treated this way everywhere in the world let it be Oz, england, or even Isreal
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Priyank Yadav says: June 09, 2009 at 03:33 AM IST
I myself am a part of it,I am in Ireland and am reading it.To be very honest haven't had a racist experience to that extent apart from my in-laws who accepted me but could not tell the society to whic caste I belong to so it's very much true., I have been wholeheartedly accepted in a alien country then my own countrymen my relatives in-laws, pity me
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Tarang says: June 09, 2009 at 03:35 AM IST
Totally irrelevent argument made by pseduo intellectual of India. These are not individual incidents of violence, it is getting more and more systematic. Have you asked why chinese students are not attacked? Because there will be uniform response from them. Here we will have these so called talking heads always justifying anything wrong with some nonsense arguments.
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jugnu sharma says: June 09, 2009 at 03:37 AM IST
Jug suraiya ,may be yes may be no but I ask you if this is the right time to ask this question?Are you paid by the Australian government or what?Dont try to divert the attention from the current scenario.
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Anan says: June 09, 2009 at 03:44 AM IST
Instead of advocating for extending help to our fellow citizens abroad who are clearly being discriminated against and marginalized, this author perpetuates the stigma of the feeble disposition often assigned to Indians abroad by advocating we reform our own society in response to problems instigated by other races upon Indians. Way to show courage and stand up for Indian dignity, Mr. Suraiya!
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Navin Pathak says: June 09, 2009 at 03:46 AM IST
Media is to be blamed to certain extent as well. BAN all the ads in India that talks of having fair skin with use of some cream OR atleast boycott them. I remember some bollywood actors were endorsing some of these ads......IDIOTS.
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AD says: June 09, 2009 at 03:47 AM IST
come on.. its time to get united with our fellow indians and help them the way we can. Stop writing such articles at this time.. this is not the right time to express such views...
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Ruvbalkish says: June 09, 2009 at 03:52 AM IST
Most North Indians in USA are desperate to marry caucasian women and will do anyhting to achieve it - these North Indians are color conscious and are racists in that regard
Most of the abused in australia are Sikhs and Punjabis, and they are getting ataste of their own medicine - Tamil brahmins in Tanmilnadu are punihsed by DMK and AIDMK with caste quotas, and Tamils in karnataka are attacked by Kanndigas for not speaking Tamil
so, Indians are biggest racists
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Abhijit says: June 09, 2009 at 03:53 AM IST
I agree with our fascination for color. Only difference between racism and our fascination is we don't kill people for being black.
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Vijay says: June 09, 2009 at 03:56 AM IST
Instead of advocating for extending help to our fellow citizens abroad who are clearly being marginalized, this author perpetuates the stigma of the feeble disposition often assigned to Indians abroad by advocating we reform our own society in response to problems instigated by other races upon Indians. Way to show courage and stand up for Indian dignity, Mr. Suraiya!
We as a people have faced discrimination in Fiji, Australia and many other places in recent times. If we don't take any action, who is to stop these and other people from discriminating against us in the future? It's time to have some courage and show these people that if you mess with us, then there will be consequences!
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Aashish Sharma says: June 09, 2009 at 03:57 AM IST
People feel proud to take their country name isnt that a differentiation between human race.
Be creative Jug Surya you are one of those guy who would like to gain attention / popularity by creating controversies. You are no different then people who just talk and do no good.
Its just handful of people who believe in all this racism and casteism issues and people like them exist in all parts of the world. What we need to do is just discourage them by means of strict laws.
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RB says: June 09, 2009 at 04:03 AM IST
I agree with every word of it. Thank you, Mr Suraiya.
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manav says: June 09, 2009 at 04:04 AM IST
Mr. Jug:
You wrote: "Whether 'caste' - a result of cultural and social segmentation - can legitimately be conflated with 'race' - with its genetic and physiological underpinnings - is a matter of academic debate."
Two rejoinders:
First, if you do engage in such a conflation, you are proving yourself to be ignorant. Caste and Race are two different categories of differentiation. Caste is, at the core, economic. Race is at the core genetic.
Second, I assume you are a well read man. Given that you have bothered to write this blog should imply that you have read corresponding blogs and articles that have recently appeared in the Australian media. Therein you would have noticed the level of ignorance about India and specifically, of the caste system - something that you err on as well!
Lastly, sure India exhibits casteism. Sure India exhibits regionalism. Sure, India exhibits differentions based on language and a host of other markers. But, and this is the key point, that occurs INDISE India and is our very legitimate and urgent problem to deal with. The point of the attacks on the Indian students in Australia is that whoever, for whatever reason, is attacking these students are attacking Indian nationals and it is that specific issue that we must stand united as Indians against.
Oh...and one other point - can you name me one god from the Indian pantheon who is dark-skinned yet revered by millions? Its Krishna of course dummy! Forget about Sonam Kapoor's 'get white' skin cream advert for a second will ya?
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manav says: June 09, 2009 at 04:11 AM IST
OK...you really want to write about a controversial angle to the recent incidents in Australia...here is one FALSE example.
Actually, the attacks on the Indian students in Australia are being perpetrated by Indian intelligence agents. Why? Such that it gives the Indian government a stick to wag at the Australians. Why? Because, even after the Ind0-US Nuclear Deal, the Australians are refusing to sell their uranium to us. They insist we sign the NPT and the CTBT. So, how do these bashings help India diplomatically? By forcing the Australian government to appear weak internationally. Does this make sense? No! But hey..;its sensational alright!
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chirkut says: June 09, 2009 at 04:22 AM IST
let me simplify the logic purported by you and other bloggers
we treat our people bad so its ok for Others(
Oz) to treat us bad
What rubbish...
Indian are uncouth...They mistreat a african or a NEtern bad. Actually they treat any deviation from normal the same way. I used to wear spectacles in my childhood and was treated same.. but there we no racism ...its just lack of civility...
"chitti chamri" will go away with time...its a remanant of British raj and association of eurpoean with money.
Also there is a difference between racism and preferences...i might like fair skin...many caucasians like tanned skin...
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Yash says: June 09, 2009 at 04:25 AM IST
I am a student studying not studying in India and I dont agree with this article AT ALL. I understand it is embedded in an Indian mind to argue both sides of the coin but this is taking it too far in all senses. Mr.Author you have NO FREAKIN IDEA what students studying in other countries go through. So please "please" give that pen some rest when you feel like writing about things you dont know first hand.
There is always some kinda regional unacceptance in EVERY country, comparing that with racism is so ignorant. Do you even know what racism feels like? Do you think dark north indians vs fair north indians is racism?
Do you really think it takes a racist to catch another? It can take hit anybody by anytime.
I used to enjoy your dubyaman cartoons and other literary pieces, but after reading this... ummmm I dont think your such a learned guy after all. You have lost my respect.
MANN, such an insensitive piece of writing with no sense of reality.
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Mehul says: June 09, 2009 at 04:25 AM IST
I fully agree that Oz is not racist in any nature compare to India.. (apne ateeth ke aayne main jaakh kar dekho) and sometimes i feel ashamed of my self.// and one more thing is that there is a fine line between reporting and provoking and Indian Media has crossed that line.
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Aditya says: June 09, 2009 at 04:26 AM IST
@joy: "we don't beat up people for being mallu or whatever"...you clearly have not lived in bombay
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An actual "proud to be indian" indian says: June 09, 2009 at 04:44 AM IST
Sir Jug "I am holier than thou" Suraiya,
I hope you understand there is a difference between putting a matrimonial ad about the kind of life partner you want and actually going ahead and hitting/physically assualting/killing another human being in the name of race. I am not defending the fact that"fairness" is preferred in marriage choices, which they clearly are in india, but the fact that you are using it as a counterexample is something I am totally unable to comprehend. I hope you can rationalize the difference between a life partner choice and causing another person bodily harm. In case you cannot, I suggest you stop reading further.
The level of racism that you are referring goes on all the time all around the world. The majority of people do and will always have a basic fear of the unknown. It is the reason why you do not go into a party with unknown individuals and tell the same jokes you tell your friends for 50 years. These particular incidents are so publicized because young people are actually being injured and killed. Please do not belittle the issue by comparing it to individual preferences.
Sorry for writing such a long article, but the main reason I have such a strong negative opinion about this article is because once again, when something wrong is happening to us indians, you would rather rationalize and blame ourselves than the aggressor. You are the husband who blames his wife when another man misbehaves with her for wearing a provocative dress, you are the father who blames his child when he comes back and tells you the teacher slapped him in school, you are the reason we were under imperialist rule for 200 years. I pray to you from the bottom of my heart that please,please, please dont write and spread these ideas that promote low national self esteem otherwise we might have to face 200 more years of imperialism. There are wrong and right things in every culture and things take time to improve.
Please,Please,Please,Please.
Jai Hind
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asish says: June 09, 2009 at 05:01 AM IST
I completely agree with Jug.. I know what exactly has prompted this kinda attack. We Indian wherever we go, we try to make our community and stay confined in that so much that we build a little India everywhere. We make no efforts to reach out to the locals.Instead what we should be trying is to learn the local culture, mix with them, extend friendship.I can tell you this based on my own experience and what I have seen abroad. I have lived 5 year in Europe and south east asia and traveled extensively.Everywhere I found the same attitude.We are the best and out culture is the best.Yes it is true but when you are in a foreign country you should also be trying to embrace part of their culture and behave accordingly.I guess this is what all those students have sworn by when they faced graduate admission committee.
Dark skin do not fare well in India.This is eternal truth.But this is not the reason of OZ treatment to Indian student.Living inside the Indian cocoon in the campus is the reason.Have you asked questions why student are being attacked.Try to get them involved in your social events and get involved in theirs.Problem will be solved.Take it from me.Don't create your little india wherever you go.
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George Rozario says: June 09, 2009 at 05:03 AM IST
The writer has brought the issue at the best time. Though it seems like a diversion from the 'real' issue in Australia, if we dont look at ourselves at this juncture we would never do it.
Still we Indians have to grow up a lot when it comes to accepting people from diff states speaking different languages. I know a businessman from Tamilnadu who has to always hide his ethnicity when he travels to interior Karnataka. In turn, Malayalees are called names in Tamilnadu, a 'malayalathan' is typically an untrustworthy person in popular Tamilnadu belief. Similarly a 'Pandi' (slur for tamils, used by malayalees) is never treated equal by malayalees. (Me being of south indian origin, these are the ones i'm familiar with, i'm sure there are such differences among north indians too). Just yesterday one of my Marathi friends was telling me she never liked south indians ( of course, except me). After more than 60 yrs of independence, we really need to grow up. Let us as Indians stand united and fight the racism in Australia against our folks. Hats off to the author.
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sngt says: June 09, 2009 at 05:11 AM IST
the look of India which u r presenting is changing i agree not completely. now people of all casts & colors uses to go & sit together in public transport like buses & trains. why only bcoz of few people blaming whole India.I agree there are different word for different casts & colors even then so many different religions, casts,status are living together. India is the biggest democracy in the world.living in India & writing against it "it happens only in India". no where media prints against if do they do it in small corner. that's why India's small mistakes look BIG & other counteries BIG look small.
Now the fault is of aus then why are u pulling leg of India. should we not speak if treated unfairly bcoz racism is in India also? Also if we are beaten in Australia we should blame it as result of Indian racism Mr Jug.
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Shane D'Souza says: June 09, 2009 at 05:17 AM IST
Racism cannot be pinned down to any nation or nationality. It's an individual demon. Racism is an inferiority complex suffered by people having identity issues, lack of self esteem and self confidence.This is both ways the abuser and the person who looks at everything from a narrow racial prospective{indians{due to our past history}} I have been in Aussy and NZ for the last 10 yrs. My advice to all indians"When in rome live like the romans". Over the year we have seen racial abuse al over the world, including india thisis because indians lack community skills. Most forigners only have issues with indians on the way we live in their country and not who we are{race}. Indian by nature are always complaining. Most indians tell their counterpart.. this is nothing in india we do this... and aussy{or anyother counrty} is nothing compare to india... if someone said it abt india we would be first to say racisim.... So what is this?
shane
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sandeep says: June 09, 2009 at 05:24 AM IST
"It's because we are so racist ourselves that we are so quick to react to a racist slur: it takes a racist to catch a racis"
And so the author is a racist.
There are some evil ppl in every country. We must check the number of such ppl. Considering the population ratios, I don't think we gotta blame India alone. Blame the one who introduced such a thing.
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Rashmi says: June 09, 2009 at 05:42 AM IST
Mr Jug,
I'm sure you are in India at this time and not spent a significant time outside the country. It is very evident that people who have disagreed with you are either out of the country facing the trauma or have someone out there facing it. These small difference that you have mentioned with in our country between states exist in every country on this planet. It is human nature to consider one self superior than others. I have lived in US for 5 years and I have seen how the western US ridicules the south and how the south ridicules the east. Their accents are mocked upon, their dressing sense is mocked upon their food is mocked upon. You see these thing every where. So, it ultimately boils down to the point how you treat international people in your country?
There are Indian students murdered brutually in most of the foreign countries,if we look within we will see there are no such cases, where there is a murder of an international immigrant on a regular basis. I agree we did have a few cases but you can count them on your fingers. Indians by nature are very soft and accommodative people we do not beat up and kill people, we value lives which I deeply respect and extremely proud off.
I would really appreciate if you could please research on the topic before writing it out on a major newspaper. More over Indians in India should have more self esteem and not support such thoughts. We did have caste problems, may be we still do but the solution lies in rectifing problems and not blaming ourselves, that only brings down our self-rspect. We need to raise and start respecting oneself first rather than riculing. All the people who have agreed with Mr Jug, I have a question for you, how many of you have made a decision not to be a part of castism? How many of you have decided to go out and make a friend of a different caste or region or color? It is easy to type comments but it is difficult to act.
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SydneyGirl says: June 09, 2009 at 05:53 AM IST
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